Bluegrassrivals

Valley did struggle from the free throw in the first half and hatfield got 3 quick fouls in the second and Justice wasnt on fire

PC_You_Know Wrote:Sure FBALL, a All "A" title doesn't mean as much as a sweet 16, but it means a lot when you're comparing to a team without any titles.

COMPARE compare school size then(2 to 1)......Pike Co. (correct me if I am wrong) is the largest county in east KY......I beleive SV also got a center from one of the 5 other high schools inside the county. How many more of the players live in a different school zone? Let it go SV made a good run.....They did the 15th proud......

uhavenoidea Wrote:Doesn't mean there the best team in eastern ky. Only means they won tonight, which is a split between the two meetings and SV still has an All A State Title to there credit. Which Elliott has nothing yet, but a win tonight.

Hey stop bashing a fellow easten Ky team and start bashing the Louisville teams.We all have to stick up for each other against those "city" schools.Congrats to two GREAT teams.Too bad the Ville schools didn't have to play both.

Colonel Kill Wrote:On the bench. Valley played better without him in the line up. He looked very nervous or something. He did not look comfortable at all while on the floor.

I never post on here but I couldnt pass this up. He cant catch a ball. He can shoot but you have to be able to actually catch the ball inorder to get a shot. I seen him drop (not touched by anyone) just drop the ball several times over the last 2 nights. Maybe it was nerves but he has had a hard time all year holding on to the ball. I think Booher made a good choice of who to let play and who to sat down. No offense to Adams but that is something he def. needs to work on. Everyone has something they can improve on and that just happens to be his.:Thumbs:

I'm about to suggest a moderator shut down this thread if this "debate" keeps on going. Both teams have had very successful seasons and I'm sick of people bashing both teams in some way.

formerwildcat22 Wrote:I'm about to suggest a moderator shut down this thread if this "debate" keeps on going. Both teams have had very successful seasons and I'm sick of people bashing both teams in some way.

WHERE?

15thRegionSlamaBamma Wrote:You know I am sick of this bickering on what team is the best and blah blah blah. As I have stated time and time again this field of 16 this year was absolutley amazing. Each team brought something to the table that we have not seen since the 90s. From the 17 and 14 Central team WHICH BEAT the highly favored Eastern team that beat them just a month ago by 23 to the amazing Louisville Holmes team. This season college and high school has been something every one has been waiting for, for a long time. This year it has been about the unknown moutain teams that have captured the states attention which we have ALL been waiting for. Every team, player and coach has put in alot of hard work and time to do what they have done and we all should acknowledge that rather then bickering.

Tonight Elliot was by far the better team and even though Valley played sub par on the offensive end. I am not sure if it was so much that Elliot county played that great of D or if it was that Valley just has hit a slump as of late. A friend and I were talking and throughout the regional tournament and first round of state Valley got off to a slow start. We were in an agreement that if they did that against this well rounded Elliot County team that there was no chance they could pull out the win and we were correct. Valley did not shot well against Mason Co. early on and it about bit them. Valley had a great season and that should be recognized they are in fact one of the top teams in the state. Elliot just has the better night tonight, they shot the ball EXTREMLY well, the hit their free throws and hit some clutch shots. The turning point in this game was the 3 at the end of the 3rd that put EC up by 4 and gave them all momentum. I think another determining factor that my friend pointed out and I agree with is this Valley team likes to play physical on the defensive end. They love to body you up full court and force you to the side line into traps. Tonight the refs were calling things that has not been called all season against Valley and they did not adjust to it which caused them to get into foul trouble. I question some of Valleys shot selections by a couple of players.

I for one will be supporting Elliot against Holmes however I do not invision a Elliot victory.

I've said it all year,most teams in the 15th do a lot of hand checking and using their body to force you where they want you to go and it's not like that in the rest of the state.
Congrats to Valley,you guys were awesome to watch this year.nothing to be ashamed of

matthewsmom23 Wrote:I never post on here but I couldnt pass this up. He cant catch a ball. He can shoot but you have to be able to actually catch the ball inorder to get a shot. I seen him drop (not touched by anyone) just drop the ball several times over the last 2 nights. Maybe it was nerves but he has had a hard time all year holding on to the ball. I think Booher made a good choice of who to let play and who to sat down. No offense to Adams but that is something he def. needs to work on. Everyone has something they can improve on and that just happens to be his.:Thumbs:

I completely agree with you. That why I was answering when someone asked where he was at. I thought it was a great decision to play Tackett and Newsomes as they were much more aggressive on both ends of the floor and they gave Valley a better inside game. I said in another post earlier this year that I did not think Adams really helped Valley all that much. I agree there were a few games during the year his shot blocking and sized helped a little but in the state tourny he was up against players close in size but stronger and quicker and it really exposed him and his weaknesses and Booher made the right call for his team to put him on the bench. On a side note I thought it was weird or showed he was intimidated when against Mason he did not even jump or attempt to control the opening tip. I think he has talent but really needed someone to work with him on being a big man on the post, like maybe big man camps.

I felt that throughout the game the wrong people were taking shots for SV. Tyler Newsome had the hot hand, but didn't get to take enough shots. Look at Hatfield's shooting on the night (3-19 for 15%). Not wanting to bash any kid on here, but he should have been on the bench and not allowed to shoot that many shots. In this type of game every possession is critical and you can't let a player shoot you out of the tournament. Realize that other players on the team can score as well! Too much emphasis on two players doing all the scoring throughout the season finally caught up with Valley tonight.
Hatfield and Justice shot for a combined 9-47, 19%. Elisha didn't have his normal kind of shooting night but still did alot of other good things on the floor and he needs to keep his head up, a joy to watch. Not having Adams really hurt Valley's chances, because he's a big part of the reason they beat Elliot the first time in the All-A.

FBALL Wrote:This thread needs some cheese.

Elliott County plays physical on defense as well. Lets not break out the refs cost us the game garbage.

Elliott County cut down the turnovers and forced Shelby Valley into something they are not as comfortable doing. Making shots to win ball games. SV depends on justice and layups off of turnovers for all of their offense. The reason they shot the ball so poorly is that they didn't get the turnovers or the easy points that result from them.

But yeah, had the refs been fair and not cheated we know that nobody could beat SV.

You act like Elliot simply blew out SV. THe reason for SV loss was the simply could not hit shots, they were 9 of 33 from the field in the first half. They seemed to never get any offense going. But as far as Elliot winning the state title then I really dont see them beating Holmes. Elliot might have won this match up, but SV beat them in the All "A" and won the championship. If Elliot doesnt beat Holmes or does not win the state, what have they won??? Would you rather have the All "A" state title or a State Final Four??? If they split their meetings 1-1 how can you say one team is better???? Really dont understand your thinking.

Congrats to Elliott on the win and the advance to the semis! Best of luck!

These two teams are very good and on a given night either could beat the other. It just so happended that SV didn't play well on a very important night in the State tourney and ..... they lost. That very same thing is what beat Elliott Co. in the All A. Everyone has to remember that in these tourneys if you don't have a good game you are done. It has nothing to do with the best team necessarily. There have been other good teams knocked out of the Sweet Sixteen already. Some that shouldn't have been.

Anyway, best of luck to the Lions, you're going to need it. Hope you can bring some hardware back to the mountains, but a couple of hard games ahead.

SV should be very proud of their season....... at this level though you see the better TEAM come out on top (not saying SV isn't better other times) my point is all 5 starters for EC were in double digit points..... this is true team effort......one or two players can't be the only one depended on at this point (not saying SV isn't a great team, they have a ton of talent).... everyone has to play well together, especially when facing a team as purely athletic as Holmes...... Louisville and UK are a great comparison for this situation right now..... UK in the NIT with two of the best players in the country (Patterson and Meeks) right now and with only 2 players to depend on for scoring, they couldn't knock off enough teams to get in the NCAA..... UofL in the NCAA (bc i dont follow them that much, thus dont know who plays) is outstanding right now with some not as well know players but they are playing great as a team and being rewarded

Now What Wrote:Seems any time someone takes a lose "its a game of what ifs". EC won tonight when it mattered, in the big dance. Yes SV won the NIT but no matter what excuses anyone can come up with , they will still be watching the final 4 from the bleachers.

Wow, what a ridiculous post. Since apparently you don't know how college basketball's post-season works, let me educate you...

The NIT is for teams that didn't get into the "big dance". Playing in the All-A Classic doesn't preclude anyone from playing in the Sweet Sixteen, and Hazard, SV, and Elliott are proof of that. So to compare the All-A title to the NIT is laughable.

If no one really wants to win the All-A, then why was Elliott even in it? I'll tell you, it's because they wanted to win it, same as SV. And their fans on here thought that the All-A title was in the bag, then were absolutely shocked that they lost to lowly Shelby Valley. I know that if Elliott had won the All-A title, you people wouldn't be on here acting like it meant nothing. But since SV won it, suddenly it's no big deal.

If you all want to say "so what, SV won the All-A, it's no big deal" that's fine. But what does it say about a team that didn't even win it?

I'm telling you, a lot of the Elliott fans on here need to learn how to win with class. After the game last night, I had planned on rooting for Elliott to win the whole thing, but after reading some of the arrogant posts on here I changed my mind.

I think all the press clippings and ESPN stories have gone to a lot of the EC fans' heads. Not the players, mind you, they seem to be class acts. But the fans think they are the greatest thing since sliced bread, and are so arrogant that they can't admit when another team is just as good as theirs is.

What happened two years ago is ancient history. This is a totally different SV team, and this version of SV split two games with the almighty Elliott County. That, my friends, is considered a draw. Why can't you EC fans get off your high horse and admit that SV is your equal?

I'm not out here crowing that my team is SO much better than EC. I'll say that if they played 10 games, they would split them 5-5. But to even imply that SV might be just as good as EC is heresy to some of you.

More Cowbell Wrote:Wow, what a ridiculous post. Since apparently you don't know how college basketball's post-season works, let me educate you...

The NIT is for teams that didn't get into the "big dance". Playing in the All-A Classic doesn't prclude anyone from playing in the Sweet Sixteen, and Hazard, SV, and Elliott are proof of that. So to compare the All-A title to the NIT is laughable.

If no one really wants to win the All-A, then why was Elliott even in it? I'll tell you, it's because they wanted to win it, same as SV. And their fans on here thought that the All-A title was in the bag, then were absolutely shocked that they lost to lowly Shelby Valley. I know that if Elliott had won the All-A title, you people wouldn't be on here acting like it meant nothing. But since SV won it, suddenly it's no big deal.

If you all want to say " so what, SV won the All-A, it's no big deal" that's fine. But what does it say about a team that didn't even win it?

Exactly, great post. If Elliot would have won the All "A" then their fans would be on here saying "We got the All "A" title and beat SV at rupp". But since SV won the All "A" and beat Elliot they say it isnt a big deal. SV can now hang up a state championship banner, Elliot can't say that.

letthebighogroot Wrote:This debate goes back to the first meeting at Rupp, which makes it 2 outta 3 for Elliott. And I think I speak for all EC fans when I say, I wouldn't trade Sat. morning in Rupp for a dozen all A titles, and if truth was known you wouldn't either.

Actually, I believe I would take the All-A title versus no titles at all. What good is playing on Saturday morning if you don't win it? All it proves is you can lose in the semifinals of a state tournament. Last I checked, they don't give out trophies for fourth place.

I am being 100% honest that looking back on the two teams' respective seasons, if had to pick one of the two games between SV and EC to win, I would keep it the way it happened. Because SV's win in Richmond led to a title, while EC's win yesterday led to nothing.

Sure, the All-A isn't as prestigious as the Sweet Sixteen. But an All-A title is better than nothing, isn't it?

Like I said last night, Elliott fans, not going to mean much beating SV if you don't win a title, hard to compare an All "A" title to no title. Hope the Faulkner Twins and Ferguson have good college careers, we all know they can play some ball.

More Cowbell Wrote:Actually, I believe I would take the All-A title versus no titles at all. What good is playing on Saturday morning if you don't win it? All it proves is you can lose in the semifinals of a state tournament. Last I checked, they don't give out trophies for fourth place.

I am being 100% honest that looking back on the two teams' respective seasons, if had to pick one of the two games between SV and EC to win, I would keep it the way it happened. Because SV's win in Richmond led to a title, while EC's win yesterday led to nothing.

Sure, the All-A isn't as prestigious as the Sweet Sixteen. But an All-A title is better than nothing, isn't it?

Exaclty, if you do not win the Sweet 16 what does the win over SV mean? Nothing. SV beat Elliot and went on to win the All "A" Title. Elliot beat SV and then got beat the next game and goes home empty handed.

I don't understand why the SV fans can not accept the simple fact that Elliott is the better team. Elliott should have beat them both times but they didn't and SV won the ALL-A but lost to Elliott in the big dance. Both teams had great seasons and like it or not Elliott is still better.

kybaseball Wrote:I don't understand why the SV fans can not accept the simple fact that Elliott is the better team. Elliott should have beat them both times but they didn't and SV won the ALL-A but lost to Elliott in the big dance. Both teams had great seasons and like it or not Elliott is still better.

If Elliott is the better team why does SV have a trophy and Elliott doesn't?

I wish everyone (on both sides) would just let it go. This bickering is very childish. Both are very good teams who have accomplished a lot and we should just leave it at that.

DortonWildcat5 Wrote:I wish everyone (on both sides) would just let it go. This bickering is very childish. Both are very good teams who have accomplished a lot and we should just leave it at that.

It's actually one of the better arguments on here, there hasn't been any name calling or bashing on players, both sides are just very proud, just a good ol debate, that's rare on here.

kybaseball Wrote:I don't understand why the SV fans can not accept the simple fact that Elliott is the better team. Elliott should have beat them both times but they didn't and SV won the ALL-A but lost to Elliott in the big dance. Both teams had great seasons and like it or not Elliott is still better.

I am from Paintsville, the TIGERS are my team. So I dont have a dog in this fight. Here is my thoughts on the seasons of the two teams. Yes, Shelby Valley won the All A State Championship. Elliott Co. Beat out Shelby Valley in the elite 8 but lost in the final 4. Something was wrong with Shelby Valley in this whole tournement. I dont know if it was the jitters of playing in front of such a large crowd or not. Justice missed shots that he normally would not miss. Valleys defense was not as active as it has been pretty much the whole season. Elliott Co. in the 3rd looked to me like they got every break in the book. They was in the double bonus with 3:30 left in the 3rd quarter. Then one of Elliott Co. players gives a Shelby Valley player a forearm shot that knocked him down. He gets charged with the intentional foul. The player went and talked to all three refs.

It looked to me like both of Shelby Valley bigs was having problems. It looked like Tackett #42 was holding his wrist and was in pain walking off the court at half time. Adams #23 looked like the walking dead and appeared to either be puking on the bench or coughing up a big loogie. Any one know the answers to these?

One final question. In all the articles that was posted from USA Today and ESPN. I am sorry to hear that Elliott has had a disappointing season. I truly wish ever seniors season is a special one and one to remember.

No need for a response to this, because I really don't want anything started about media hype and all that hoopla, but I wonder if next year Shelby Valley's team will get half of the exposure that Elliott got this year with all the articles and so on.

I want to congratulate Elliott County on their win and not bash any team or fan. Shelby Valley and Elliott County represented their family, team and community very well. I am sorry the seniors on both team ended their careers without winning it all (I just listened to Holmes beating EC). Both teams and players are very special, thanks for the memories.

PC_You_Know Wrote:No need for a response to this, because I really don't want anything started about media hype and all that hoopla, but I wonder if next year Shelby Valley's team will get half of the exposure that Elliott got this year with all the articles and so on.

I dont see how it is media hype when it is quotes from the players and coaches.

kybaseball Wrote:I don't understand why the SV fans can not accept the simple fact that Elliott is the better team. Elliott should have beat them both times but they didn't and SV won the ALL-A but lost to Elliott in the big dance. Both teams had great seasons and like it or not Elliott is still better.

Why should any of the SV fans accept the "simple fact" that Elliott is the better team? What you are stating has nothing to do with fact, and everything to do with opinion.

Here are the facts: SV and Elliott played two times, each winning one time. Anyone claiming anything beyond that is purely stating an opinion.

My opinion is that SV should have won both times, but they didn't. You obviously feel differently. But no one has to accept any "simple fact" that Elliott is better, because no such fact exists.

ok so the deal on deven adams is he was vomiting since during the mason co game and was sick the whole night and was still throwing up before the elliot co game...he had an IV in him before the game trying to get him to feel a little better so he could play...and the comment about Timmy Knipp taking it to Deven in the 2nd half is just stupid because Deven did not play any in the 2nd half and just a few mins in the first maybe 5 not to sure...yes it would of made a difference if he would have played...he had no energy to post up or try and more to guard Timmy and if he ever tried he would puke which he did just from standing up during a time out while on the bench

Yes the "simple fact" is Elliott is better and they just proved it last night. So what is there not to accept?Elliott has won 2 out of the last 3 matchups I just don't understand .

kybaseball Wrote:Yes the "simple fact" is Elliott is better and they just proved it last night. So what is there not to accept?Elliott has won 2 out of the last 3 matchups I just don't understand .

How is splitting a series 1-1 proving you are the better team, get over your win 2 years ago, you all shot 30 more foul shots than Valley did 2 years ago.

A split it a split, it's over, Valley has a trophy and Elliott, no matter how long you want to argue on here and say Elliott is better, still won't have a trophy, sorry.