[NEXT]

I think the parents should petition the school board to allow hold backs to play as many years of middle school as they can. While they are at it, and because playing your 7th grade or 8th grade twice, why not just petition that if you are a athlete in middle school that you dont even have to go to class. Just have 8 hours of practice instead of learning that stuff like math, science, and English. Who needs to know that stuff anyways when you can win regional tourneys and lots of ball games.

WOW......


You really have a problem with it don't you.

Answer this -


What will it hurt to hold a kid back?

[The Installer]

What is that supposed to mean? Who said anything about education not being the most important thing for any child who goes to school? However, we all know the benefits of playing sports and being a member of a team. If I make the decision that it is best that I hold my child back at this point in their school years, they will be punished and not be able to play sports for that year. Sometimes thats the only thing that keeps the child out of trouble with drugs and alcohol. Other school systems let this decision be made by the parents and KHSAA has standards that won't let a child play past 19. The rules are there so who does Pike Co. feel the need to regulate what is already regulated by the state in the first place? Is this decision being made by people in Pike co. who don't want to hold their child back so they prevent those of us who do from doing so?

[DortonWildcat5]

I think the parents should petition the school board to allow hold backs to play as many years of middle school as they can. While they are at it, and because playing your 7th grade or 8th grade twice, why not just petition that if you are a athlete in middle school that you dont even have to go to class. Just have 8 hours of practice instead of learning that stuff like math, science, and English. Who needs to know that stuff anyways when you can win regional tourneys and lots of ball games.

What about history? I teach history and it always seem to get neglected . . . lol.

[The Guru]

I know that at Paintsville, they have 2 holdbacks. One was held back when in like the 3rd or 4th grade because his parents didn't want for him to turn 18 just befor graduation.
The second wasn't held back for sports. It was more of a maturity thing.
Both are exceptional young men. But honestly....I am not convinced that holding back helps them after high school.
Example....College coach is looking at 2 different Srs. that both play SF.
Kid "A" is 6'5" 210#, 19 years old and is a "Manchild" in the High School ranks. He is averaging 14 points & 8 boards a game.
Kid "B" is 6'5" 190#, 17 years old has all the skills but looks like he could use a little maturity and muscle. Averages 14 points &6 boards a game.
Coach starts thinking.......*hmmmm.....if I could sign Kid "A"....he probably isn't getting much bigger if at all....I wouldn't be able to count on him very early in college.
Kid "B" on the other hand could redshirt, put on 20-30 pounds and maybe even grow an inch or two!!! WOW!!! I might get four full years with him!!*
Holdbacks are a crapshoot IMO.

[DortonWildcat5]

WOW......


You really have a problem with it don't you.

Answer this -


What will it hurt to hold a kid back?

I think he may have a problem because his son wasn't held back, while many holdbacks get lots of attention. Imagine his son as a sophomore. He would be getting much more publicity than he is now. It does kind of distort our view of a player doesn't it?

I don't totally agree with holdbacks, but as a coach I see how hard it is to compete against teams who have lots of them.

[NEXT]

What is that supposed to mean? Who said anything about education not being the most important thing for any child who goes to school? However, we all know the benefits of playing sports and being a member of a team. If I make the decision that it is best that I hold my child back at this point in their school years, they will be punished and not be able to play sports for that year. Sometimes thats the only thing that keeps the child out of trouble with drugs and alcohol. Other school systems let this decision be made by the parents and KHSAA has standards that won't let a child play past 19. The rules are there so who does Pike Co. feel the need to regulate what is already regulated by the state in the first place? Is this decision being made by people in Pike co. who don't want to hold their child back so they prevent those of us who do from doing so?

Actually one school got mad as heck because a parent wanted to hole their child back and the school wouldn't let them. Turns out the kid is a STUD athlete and left. The school and BOE member from that area cried like babies until the rule was changed because they were losing on the athletic field/court.


If

[NEXT]

I think he may have a problem because his son wasn't held back, while many holdbacks get lots of attention. Imagine his son as a sophomore. He would be getting much more publicity than he is now. It does kind of distort our view of a player doesn't it?

I don't totally agree with holdbacks, but as a coach I see how hard it is to compete against teams who have lots of them.

Yes. He and I have had this discussion and he said he didn't care if he played athletics in college or not.

[gotcha2]

I don't agree with holding them back for sports. I'm sure however there are kids out there who would benefit from an extra year to mature (academics/behavior). If people are truly concerned about their kids graduating at 17, then do the math early on and keep them out of school until age 6. I agree it can be hard to compete against the teams that are loaded with holdbacks. From what I've seen most teams have 1-2 players who have been held back. Are there any 15th region teams with more than 1-2 holdbacks, I haven't seen any teams with all 19 year olds.

[NEXT]

I don't agree with holding them back for sports. I'm sure however there are kids out there who would benefit from an extra year to mature (academics/behavior). If people are truly concerned about their kids graduating at 17, then do the math early on and keep them out of school until age 6. I agree it can be hard to compete against the teams that are loaded with holdbacks. From what I've seen most teams have 1-2 players who have been held back. Are there any 15th region teams with more than 1-2 holdbacks, I haven't seen any teams with all 19 year olds.

JC and SV come to mind. I don't know how old the kids from SV will be when they graduate some other will have to chime in.

[gotcha2]

JC and SV come to mind. I don't know how old the kids from SV will be when they graduate some other will have to chime in.

I know SV has one 17 year old Sophomore-other than that I'm not sure.

[DortonWildcat5]

Of SV's starting lineup right now one is a 19 year old senior, one is an 18 year old senior (not held back), one is an 18 year old junior, one is a 17 year old sophomore, and the other is a sophomore and a holdback, but not sure of age. The big man off the bench is a junior who wasn't held back, another guard was held back one year I believe, and the 8th man wasn't held back.

Of the top 8, 5 were held back. Most of the rest of the roster haven't been held back.

Anyone know about the ages of Paintsville's and Pikeville's players?

[gotcha2]

I know one of Paintsville's startrers is a 17 year old Senior and their 6th man is a Senior who just turned 18. Not sure of the others.

[crazytaxidriver]

I was 17 when I started college. its not a big deal like some of you are saying. a child shouldn't be held back for sports. point blank. what is that teaching the child?.

[The Guru]

Of SV's starting lineup right now one is a 19 year old senior, one is an 18 year old senior (not held back), one is an 18 year old junior, one is a 17 year old sophomore, and the other is a sophomore and a holdback, but not sure of age. The big man off the bench is a junior who wasn't held back, another guard was held back one year I believe, and the 8th man wasn't held back.

Of the top 8, 5 were held back. Most of the rest of the roster haven't been held back.

Anyone know about the ages of Paintsville's and Pikeville's players?

At Paintsville, one sr turns 19 this spring and anoth is already 19, the rest are 18 and not holdbacks. Of their top 8 players there are only 2 holdbacks, and neither for sports.

[BasketBallonlyfan]

I think he may have a problem because his son wasn't held back, while many holdbacks get lots of attention. Imagine his son as a sophomore. He would be getting much more publicity than he is now. It does kind of distort our view of a player doesn't it?

I don't totally agree with holdbacks, but as a coach I see how hard it is to compete against teams who have lots of them.

No, I dont have a problem because he wasnt held back. He has always been head and shoulders above everyone he went to school in heights while growing up. As far as him getting attention from colleges, he is doing that already and still has a season and a half to go. As a matter of fact, he already has one offer on paper for 5 years with the first being a red shirt year.

Everyone keeps talking how it will help them when they get to be freshmen in college by being held back. Yet no one has mentioned a team that has had hold backs to either go on to college on a scholarship or stay there if they did make it. As far as the extra year of maturity is concerned. If a kid isnt as mature as his classmates and the parents want to hold him back a year to get as mature as the kids a year younger than them, it seems they would be more concerned about why he is maturing late as to how many points a game he will score.

People, you still can hold your kid back if you feel it is best for them to do so. The BOE cant take that right away from you. Just because your young Michael Jordan wont get to play in the county games and county tourney wont keep him from getting that extra year of maturity. One person stated that being part of a team will keep them off drugs and drinking. If a 7th grader is out drunk or doing drugs, that is the parents fault, not being able to play in what, 20 or so basketball games? That sounds like a cry in the dark to me.

[BasketBallonlyfan]

What about history? I teach history and it always seem to get neglected . . . lol.

Sorry for neglecting history DW, but it is not one of the 3-r's :Clap:

[Benchwarmer]

JBS has three starters held back two years and another starter was held back one year.

[phs1986]

Her son goes to Belfry and she has said she will not hold him back........

LOLOL.... you ask if he even goes to a county school and then you come back with where he goes!! DANG... your good!!

Sorry if anyone got offened by my opinion but that is just what it is... MY OPINION.... My child is the only one that I am making statements about. It is each parents own decision to hold their child back whether it be for maturity, sports, OR grades. I just feel that is isn't the right thing to do for my child. He does too well in his academics and he does like I said earlier, excel in 2 of the 3 sports that he does play.

I do have this feeling about the sports aspect of it though......Are coaches who want their "players" held back looking at it for the maturity of their player OR for the betterment of their team?? Meaning... they have a superstar player and want to hold onto them for another year..... ?????

[BasketBallonlyfan]

So far, the only reasons it has been said that it should be allowed and they get to play all 3 years of middle school is so they can win regional championships. Not that winning those regional championships helps them get into college or anything, just to win them. Oh, and for a extra year of maturity. But only if they could play ball that second year in the same grade. Also, it would keep them from drinking and doing drugs, (20 basketball games can even if parents cant). What are the other reasons for doing it again?

[Another Asssist]

Until a student enters the 9th grade KHSAA has 0 and I mean ZERO say in athletics.

The rule then reads you have 8 semesters after entering the 9th grade and cannot turn 19 before Aug. 1st of your Senior year.

I was under the impression the rule states that once you complete your 8th grade year your high school eligibility of 8 semesters begins. In effect you can repeat the 8th grade but just not participate in sports. If you do then you only have 8 semesters to play. This is what happened to Rodney Haddix & why he did not get to play his Sr. year at Scott County. If you repeat & do not play then your 8 semesters begins at the end of that 2nd 8th grade year. Hence, if Haddix had not played that 2nd year he was in 8th grade he would have been eligible his Sr. year.

[cart man]

Hold backs that got scholarships:

John Pelphrey
Richie Farmer
Rex Chapman

Just off the top of my head.

[cart man]

Hold backs that got scholarships:

John Pelphrey
Richie Farmer
Rex Chapman

Just off the top of my head.

Not Richie Farmer, my mistake.

[ARC]

HOLDBACKS ALWAYS GOOD = WRONG
HOLDBACKS ALWAYS BAD = WRONG

Those who say that no child was ever helped by being held back are WRONG.
Those who say that every child that was held back were helped are also WRONG.

Too many variables. If a kid is held back and 'repeats' under a good teacher AND is placed with good students (his main peers), then it will probably help him EVEN if the original intent to hold back was for sports.

If a kid is held back and 'repeats' under a poor teacher AND/OR is placed with problem students, then it will probably hurt him EVEN if the original intent to hold back was not for sports.

Repeating a year with 'good' teachers probably doesn't hurt.
Dropping into a class full of thugs probably does hurt.
This is the reality. Just too many variables to consider.
It is rare that an extra year of maturity alone ever hurts, either socially, academically or athletically.

[DortonWildcat5]

HOLDBACKS ALWAYS GOOD = WRONG
HOLDBACKS ALWAYS BAD = WRONG

Those who say that no child was ever helped by being held back are WRONG.
Those who say that every child that was held back were helped are also WRONG.

Too many variables. If a kid is held back and 'repeats' under a good teacher AND is placed with good students (his main peers), then it will probably help him EVEN if the original intent to hold back was for sports.

If a kid is held back and 'repeats' under a poor teacher AND/OR is placed with problem students, then it will probably hurt him EVEN if the original intent to hold back was not for sports.

Repeating a year with 'good' teachers probably doesn't hurt.
Dropping into a class full of thugs probably does hurt.
This is the reality. Just too many variables to consider.
It is rare that an extra year of maturity alone ever hurts, either socially, academically or athletically.

Well thought out and well spoken post, ARC.

[myhero#5]

i don't think it helps maturity to hold a child back i held my child back in kindergarten because his teacher said he wasn't mature enough to go to 1st grade so i held him back and trust me it doesn't help.my other son his coach wanted to hold him back in 6th grade because he was good in football and u know what i told him that u should see all his acadmic tropheys and his report card i would rather have a kid good with his school work than good with sports but thats just my opioin

[BasketBallonlyfan]

How about something like this. Instead of petitioning the BOE to get rid of the hold back rule in middle school, why not change it to where it is a coaches responsibility to put in a few extra hours sending letters, videos, and stats to college coaches to try to get their seniors into a college. It seems to me that not many athletes in this area are getting the opportunity to play at the next level. I know that coaches now put in very long hours for a little extra pay. And it very rarely at the high school level would work out to minimum wage. But shouldnt that be part of their job description? Why not a petition about something like that instead of worrying about a hold back missing a few games.

[thecavemaster]

Doesn't the KHSAA have an eligibility rule that says that if a player turns 19 before the season he/she is participating in, then that player is ineligible? Isn't it true to suggest that the main reason for holding back in middle school is competitive advantage?

[Sportsfan54]

Until a student enters the 9th grade KHSAA has 0 and I mean ZERO say in athletics.

The rule then reads you have 8 semesters after entering the 9th grade and cannot turn 19 before Aug. 1st of your Senior year.

The rule is 8 CONSECUTIVE semesters if i'm not mistaken.

[cart man]

Until a student enters the 9th grade KHSAA has 0 and I mean ZERO say in athletics.

The rule then reads you have 8 semesters after entering the 9th grade and cannot turn 19 before Aug. 1st of your Senior year.

They have say some say from 4th grade and up if they play at the high school level.

Bylaw 4. Enrollment

Sec. 1) Maximum Number of Semesters
a) Students promoted from grade eight (8) to grade nine (9) shall
have four (4) consecutive calendar years of eligibility from the
date of first such promotion by the school provided the student
is eligible according to this and all other Association bylaws.
Such eligibility shall conclude with the completion of the spring
sports season following the fourth year.
b) The Commissioner or Board of Control through the Due Process
Procedure, may grant additional eligibility in the case where is
has been documented by the attending physician, Principal and
Superintendent that severe illness or injury has prevented the
student from receiving necessary education services and the
right to an education has therefore been impacted rather than
simply the loss of athletic privilege. Such grant of eligibility may
only be made in the cases in which the student-athlete would
remain eligible by all other Association bylaws. Nothing about
this provision shall include additional eligibility strictly for loss
of participation due to sports related injuries.
c) No student having been enrolled in the fourth (4th) grade
or in any grade through twelfth (12th) shall be eligible for
interscholastic athletics at the high school level (grades 9
through 12) for more than a total of one (1) year in each grade
and applicable eligibility shall begin in the first year enrolled
in that grade. Students repeating a grade for any reason are
ineligible to participate in interscholastic athletics at the high
school level (grades 9 through 12) during the second year in
that grade. The penalty for violation of this rule shall be the loss
of one of the four years of eligibility after being promoted from
grade nine (9). Policies regarding the participation of repeating
students at the levels of play below high school interscholastic
athletics shall be determined by the school council pursuant to
KRS 160.345 (2) (i).

[BasketBallonlyfan]

Doesn't the KHSAA have an eligibility rule that says that if a player turns 19 before the season he/she is participating in, then that player is ineligible? Isn't it true to suggest that the main reason for holding back in middle school is competitive advantage?

That is the only reason for doing it. Different people have different excuses on how it is good. But that is all they are, excuses to get a extra year of playing in middle school. People say because kids are not mature enough for college at 17 or 18. Yet very few athletes even go to college from the county. Even if they did, how can a parent tell how mature a kid will when graduated from high school while they are only in the 7th grade? Some say they are not mature enough for their grade. Yet, I bet when they get old enough they get their drivers permit and license as soon as possible. If there are any other reasons, or excuses as to why the ruling should be changed, will someone please post them?