[ronald_reagan]

ok, you Antichrist!!! whore of Babylon!!!! lol jk

[TidesHoss32]

Well, Im 100% against abortion. IMO theres no right in it. Theres nothing that will ever change my opinion of it..And I am 100% for the death penalty. Nothing cracks my bloodlines open like hearing a previously convicted child sex offender, out of prison (mistake #1, prison should have been his home until they prepped the chair), rapes, tortures and kills an innocent child, only to be sent to prison for life. People like that have no conscious, so NO, it wont stay with them. They cant be reformed. They serve as no benefit to society, so what should their reason to live be? Cut out the 20 years of the "im crazy, spare my life" bull**** appeals, and throw their *** in the chair, and watch the soul from their bodies travel the short distance to ****. I can tell you first hand, that life in prison, aint that bad for what some people do to get put in there. Ive read the argument of "we cant play God", and I can absolutely see and respect your points, but IMO, theres NOTHING that Ive seen that will make me change my mind on the death penalty. If theres 100% facts that prove the man guilty of a crime so cruel that it would constitute giving him the death penalty, then he'd better pray to whatever god he worships that I dont ever grasp power in this country. A person walks in your house, beats you while your sleeping, ties you down, and makes you watch him rape and kill your wife, children, and Im supposed to say "please dont kill this man". Sorry, but thats when I play God. He wont have to worry about the system sentencing him..

[thecavemaster]

The type of graphic murders described by Tide Hoss certainly, and justifiably, raise the ire and horror of most everyone. I wish, though, that "play god" and "soul going to Hades" and all that would be left out. If TideHoss refers to the god of christian belief, the complete absence of any sense of mercy in his comments, the sense of bloodthirst revenge, does not square with a "father" who watched a "son" die but did not answer with vengeance. Though, again, the types of brutal killings that TideHoss references cause risings of the heart in anger in most every human being.

[Watchful Eye]

Question: If you take the witness stand in any courtroom in the great Commonwealth of Kentucky you are asked to affirm your truth in testimony. No swearing on the bible or pulling out your "right wing " christian membership card, you just are asked by the judge or baliff to 'affirm"!
Why bring God into issues such as Earthly criminal punishment. I mean God didn't make them go out and kill the victim or victims in the cases. God didn't make them go out and rape those children and I bet you god won't be at the location they will be when their time comes to leave this world.....so why waste his or her time?
When mentioning God you either relate to one extrmeme or the other.....follow me. The old belief of an eye for an eye is the mentallity that began the death sentence or penalty. If someone harms your family then "by god" kill 'em.
If the opposite end of that spectrum is forgiveness. You will find people that have had horrible crimes committed against them and all they can say about the accused is "i'll pray for them" or "they need to find the Lord", or the dumbest is "they need help". 90 % of the case in Kentucky balance somewhere between these two ends of the spectrum in a place called reality. I am sure that god has many more important things to do rather than waste his time answering calls to either of these examples, saving an accussed killer or forgiving a rapist. Man's law = giving unto Ceaser what is Ceaser's.

[thecavemaster]

Interesting post... though wouldn't you agree that most religions teach general prinicples that apply to specific type situations. Example: a man catches another man breaking into his out building trying to steal his weedeater. The man attends a "something or other" christian church and claims "jesus" as his "personal savior." Wouldn't most historical theology suggest that this man's "faith" should have an influence on his reaction to this situation?

[TidesHoss32]

Interesting post... though wouldn't you agree that most religions teach general prinicples that apply to specific type situations. Example: a man catches another man breaking into his out building trying to steal his weedeater. The man attends a "something or other" christian church and claims "jesus" as his "personal savior." Wouldn't most historical theology suggest that this man's "faith" should have an influence on his reaction to this situation?

Thats a good point bringing up "specific type situations". If I caught someone stealing a weedeater, not sure that qualifies for me shooting them without mercy. It does, however, qualify for a good maiming..

[thecavemaster]

"Hey, that's my weedeater, sir. Thank you. In the name of jesus I slice you like crab grass, you mercy deserving biscuit eater."

[TidesHoss32]

"Hey, that's my weedeater, sir. Thank you. In the name of jesus I slice you like crab grass, you mercy deserving biscuit eater."

[More Cowbell]

The death penalty is one topic where I changed my viewpoint from what I believed when I first became interested in such matters back as a teenager, and the way I have felt for the last several years. Where I once supported the death penalty in certain cases, I now am opposed to it. Like others have said, a punishment of life without possibility of parole is just as bad, if not worse. But there has to be no chance of parole.

Incidentally, I agree with what RR has said earlier in this topic. It's interesting how most people fall into two camps:
1) support abortion rights, against death penalty - typically liberal Democrats
2) against abortion rights, support death penalty - typically conservative Republicans

I always find it so odd that both groups think the other is so wrong, yet each supports death in one form and opposes it in another.

[thecavemaster]

The official view of the Roman Catholic church is consistent in these two matters.

[The Guru]

I can tell.

But i forgive my trespassers.. so don't say no one does, just because you don't.

But to answer my question, what would Jesus do? it wasn't 'do you care what Jesus would do?"... had it been that, I can understand your response. Otherwise, don't be afraid to say what Jesus would do, in contrast to what you would...

(this is where you say, "I'm not Jesus, and neither are you.. so we don't knwo for sure what he'd do" lol)

We know exactly what Jesus would do.
After all, he was put to death, wrongfully, he could have stopped it at any time. What did he do???? He asked his Father to forgive them, as they know not what they do.
But since we are bringing up religion, If I was unsaved, and given the death penalty, I would repent. Find salvation in Christ. Then hope that God saw fit to except me into Heaven.

[Chuck Taylor]

After looking at the Ronnie's avatar it looks like he can almost remember what he is thinking.

[ronald_reagan]

The official view of the Roman Catholic church is consistent in these two matters.

Absolutely.

i hate agreeing with you. :p

[sherman14]

There both wrong

[ronald_reagan]

There both wrong

:rockon:

[Cardsftw2010]

And percisely what did the baby do that is being aborted? What was its offense to mankind that it deserved to die? If abortion is okay, then why is it not okay for a mom to just say 'Okay im tired of having this kid' when they're around age 5? Is a child in the womb that WILL be born less alive than any other child? When it comes to the death penalty, I think it is a sad but neccesary process. I just think the way it is drug out is ridicoulous. Putting someone to death is a fairly easy practice. That person that is being executed is a danger to society. Generally someone serving the death penalty is someone who has proven themself a danger to 'other of god's children', as you like to put it. So could it perhaps be our civic duty to protect the innocent from the guilty?

[thecavemaster]

What did Ellie Wiesel do to deserve Aushwitz? Grow up. If life were fair, a bird would not eat an earthworm... it's not fair to the worm.

[ronald_reagan]

What did Ellie Wiesel do to deserve Aushwitz? Grow up. If life were fair, a bird would not eat an earthworm... it's not fair to the worm.

Nothing. And thats the most ridiculous post I've seen by you yet...

You're clearly saying that its not fair... and 'oh well'. Compassion at its best.

[Crossbones]

The type of graphic murders described by Tide Hoss certainly, and justifiably, raise the ire and horror of most everyone. I wish, though, that "play god" and "soul going to Hades" and all that would be left out. If TideHoss refers to the god of christian belief, the complete absence of any sense of mercy in his comments, the sense of bloodthirst revenge, does not square with a "father" who watched a "son" die but did not answer with vengeance. Though, again, the types of brutal killings that TideHoss references cause risings of the heart in anger in most every human being.

God will answer with vengeance, See: Revelations. Only in His time. I'm not pointing your post out, but I keep seeing people say "What would Jesus do?". According to my Bible, Jesus said "thou shalt not shed innocent blood", their blood is not innocent(people condemned to death and are without a doubt guilty).

[Crossbones]

As I stated in the abortion thread, I have certain examples of being in favor of abortion. Again, I may be wrong, but I am the one who will stand before God and answer for that. I also believe the death penalty is justifiable, again I may be wrong. But according to God's word, and my study of it.

[More Cowbell]

What did Ellie Wiesel do to deserve Aushwitz? Grow up. If life were fair, a bird would not eat an earthworm... it's not fair to the worm.

The Jews at Auschwitz did not deserve their fate, and neither does an unborn baby being aborted. Are you actually saying that the Holocaust was no big deal, because "that's just life" and life isn't fair?

And please don't equate a human life with that of an earthworm, it's disgusting.

[ronald_reagan]

The Jews at Auschwitz did not deserve their fate, and neither does an unborn baby being aborted. Are you actually saying that the Holocaust was no big deal, because "that's just life" and life isn't fair?

And please don't equate a human life with that of an earthworm, it's disgusting.

You're exactly right.

Most of Cavemasters post are of this line of thought. Its just surprising that he didn't mention the 'Jewish God', and the poison of the religion... as justification for the slaughter of 5+ million innocent lives at the hands of Socialist-Liberal Nazi's.

But then again... maybe he just hasn't had time to post it just yet.

[thecavemaster]

You're exactly right.

Most of Cavemasters post are of this line of thought. Its just surprising that he didn't mention the 'Jewish God', and the poison of the religion... as justification for the slaughter of 5+ million innocent lives at the hands of Socialist-Liberal Nazi's.

But then again... maybe he just hasn't had time to post it just yet.

If you deem the post equated a human life to an earthworm, then I feel no need to respond. If you believe the earthworm/bird thing suggested something about the "fairness" of life, congratulations. And, RR, the usual total is 6+ million, unless, and, of course, Elllie Wiesel was a victim of the Nazi's, who happened to survive. Sometimes, RR, you're the debate equivalent of Depends, you hold water for just so long, then you leak and smell like ammonia.

[thecavemaster]

The Jews at Auschwitz did not deserve their fate, and neither does an unborn baby being aborted. Are you actually saying that the Holocaust was no big deal, because "that's just life" and life isn't fair?

And please don't equate a human life with that of an earthworm, it's disgusting.

No... I am suggesting that all "fairness" arguments ultimately fail. Ellie Wiesel did nothing to deserve Aushwitz...that's the point. Fair or unfair had nothing to do with it. The rain falls of the garden of Hilter; the rain falls on the garden of Billy Graham. The sun shines on the face of Osama Bin Laden; the sun shines on the face of the the Buddha. I think Jesus of Nazareth suggested something on this order. A human being is not an earthworm; however, a human being is foolish to expect "fairness" in a way that an earthworm is not.

[ronald_reagan]

No... I am suggesting that all "fairness" arguments ultimately fail. Ellie Wiesel did nothing to deserve Aushwitz...that's the point. Fair or unfair had nothing to do with it. The rain falls of the garden of Hilter; the rain falls on the garden of Billy Graham. The sun shines on the face of Osama Bin Laden; the sun shines on the face of the the Buddha. I think Jesus of Nazareth suggested something on this order. A human being is not an earthworm; however, a human being is foolish to expect "fairness" in a way that an earthworm is not.

Jesus of Nazareth... question cavemaster? Did Nazareth even exist at the time of Jesus? and was it actually built upon a hill?

[thecavemaster]

Ever read Josephus? You might want to before introducing nonsense.

[sherman14]

The death penalty and abortion ae both wrong. Killing another person is wrong in every way and you should go to jail for either.

[ronald_reagan]

Ever read Josephus? You might want to before introducing nonsense.

Where in Josephus's writings does he mention the town of Nazareth? I can't wait to hear your response. This is great!!

The lack of Josephus mentioning it was one of the foundations of my point.

And yes, I've read Josephus. Both the accurate and modified versions.

[Midee1]

The death penalty and abortion ae both wrong. Killing another person is wrong in every way and you should go to jail for either.

Honest question?

How would you feel about the death penalty if you witnessed someone murder both of your parents in cold blood?


Me personally I would rather the honest taxpayers not have to spend thousands of dollars housing and feeding someone like that.

[ronald_reagan]

Honest question?

How would you feel about the death penalty if you witnessed someone murder both of your parents in cold blood?

Hopefully he'd say what Dukasis said. Its still wrong. We can't be selective. Its a principled stance.

Do you realize... thats the only power that government has, that they won't grant us.. THE PEOPLE? The right to punish, by death.