[Doc Holliday]

Here's a few 'achievements' the great coach of the nation's winningest basketball program has compiled during his tenure at KENTUCKY.....and to think there's still people out there willing to argue for his continuation as basketball coach.

*Tied the school record for consecutive years (8) not appearing in the Final Four.

*First (and only) coach to have 2 consecutive 10+ loss seasons.

*First (and only) coach to have 3 consecutive 10+ loss seasons.

*Only coach to have 10+ losses in 4 out of 7 years except the Sutton/Probation era of 1985-1990.

*First season sweep by Vandy in 30 years.

*First time losing 3 in a row to Vandy since ?.

*First loss to Ole Miss in Lexington since 1927.

*First (and only) coach to have 4 SEC losses in one year in Rupp Arena.

*First time losing four straight to an SEC opponent since 1980.

*First time losing five straight to an SEC opponent since 1977.

*Worst home loss since 1992 (105-88 to Arkansas).

*Worst Senior Day loss since 1919.

*First third place SEC finish since expansion.

*First time UK had to play on the opening day of the SEC Tournament since the league split into divisional play (1992).

*First loss in 19 semifinal appearances since the SEC revived its tournament in 1979.

*Eliminated in the second round of the NCAA tournament two of the last three years.

*Their 10-5 overall record at Rupp in 2005-06 stands as its second-worst mark in UK history, better only than going 8-6 in 1988-89.

*First coach never to have either an athletic or academic All-American.

*Two 'Team Turmoils'

*Worst number of weeks having a team ranked #1 (1).

*47% of players do not see their Senior year at UK. (17 of the 37 players Tubby has recruited have left the team for various reasons)

......and the list grows each season.

Sniper I like your list its show me two things:

First you are a true blue fan who views the program not thru blue goggles but with a keen eye.

The most troubling thing I found in your post is that 47% of his recruits havent made it to their senior year!

The reason I find it so troubling is that Tubby has said the reason he didn't go after Blue Chip players is because they wouldn't stay, that they would bolt after 2 years.

This is a quote from the CJ.
"Tubby builds his classes toward senior leadership, and I think you'll see more coaches trending that way," Barnhart said. "If a coach is genuinely concerned about the long-term stability of the program and not with selfish interests, he's going to have to bring in people who are committed to staying four years."


So why is it so low?

[corndog23]

I'm still waiting for someone to post some positive Tubby 'Firsts'. Please start out your post by "Tubby is the first UK coach to.............blah blah blah"...and please state facts, not opinions about his coaching record ....and please keep the 'firsts' discussing his record only, as I did discussing his negative firsts and worsts. I'll be waiting.

First BLACK UK coach, but im sure thats negative in "some's" eyes. Firt Caoch in UK HISTORY to win a title in his FIRST season. There are many POSITIVE firsts, you just refuse to see them.

[TidesHoss32]

nope..think you pretty much named them all

First BLACK UK coach, but im sure thats negative in "some's" eyes. Firt Caoch in UK HISTORY to win a title in his FIRST season. There are many POSITIVE firsts, you just refuse to see them.

[Gorn]

....and that was with RICK'S PLAYERS

Tubby HAS NEVER recruited a player during his 17 year coaching career that ever played in a FINAL FOUR.

So much for Tub's recruiting expertise.

something Pitino obviously had no intention of doing.

[Gorn]

Tubby Smith @ UK.

259-78 (77% winning)

If the season ended today that means Tubby would be averaging 26 wins and 8 losses per season at UK.

5 SEC titles, 5 SEC tournament titles. In the SEC Tournament, he's 19-4 at UK

In 2005, he joined Roy Williams, Nolan Richardson, Denny Crum and Jim Boeheim as the fifth head coach to win 365 games in 15 seasons or less. Smith's career record is now 383-140, and his .733 winning percentage is eighth among active coaches entering the 2006-07 season.

He totaled 100 wins quicker than any other Wildcat coach except Hall of Famer Adolph Rupp, reaching the plateau in 130 games.

4 Elite 8 appearances aside from winning the National Title in 1998. When winning in 1998, this team had lost it's 3 leading scorers from the 1997 team that Rick Pitino couldn't win with.

3 National Coach of the Year Awards 1998, 2003, 2005.

Losses come a lot easier when the SEC actually can play a little bit now. A lot of UK fans are so unrealistic about expectations because Kentucky has played in one of the weakest conferences year in and year out in history.

Losses come easier also when Tubby beefs up the schedule year in and year out.
This season #2 SOS
Last season #15 SOS
2005 season #24 SOS
2004 season #21 SOS
2003 season - No strength number given, but played #20 Gonzaga, #12 North Carolina, #21 Michigan State, #6 Indiana, #18 Tennessee, #10 Notre Dame, #24 Auburn, #15 Alabama, #1 Florida, #20 Georgia and others. This was without a doubt the toughest schedule in the country.

*Prince was an All American twice under Tubby Smith.
*Bogans was an All American in 2003.

You people don't like Tubby that's fine. It's not going to do anything so it doesn't really matter. I think we're lucky to have a coach that can put a good team on the floor each and every game to compete. With the exception of last year the Tubby era hasn't been bad at all except in the eyes of fans with unrealistic expectations that were made by Rick Pitino. I can agree that he what he did was great, and if he would have stayed then who knows what may have happened. But Tubby Smith has done a great job of putting Kentucky in a good position to make a run each year. In 2003-2005 he won 67 games while only losing 15, for a winning % of 82.

Funny that only UK fans don't understand the parity in college basketball in this day and age.

This isn't the old days where the same teams go to the final four year in and year out. It's a lot harder now as shown last season.

The traditional powers that are UK, Duke, Indiana, Louisville, etc. are now on the same playing field with almost any other team now because the talent level is higher than ever.

You don't like Tubby. That's fine, because me along with 23,000 others will fill Rupp for every home game and cheer when his name is announced every time.

Perhaps the most BEAUTIFUL post i've ever seen in my history on blugrassrivals.
Alfus, you make me proud to be a Tubby fan!:Thumbs:

[Playboy5]

Tubby was the first Coach to win a National Chamionship in 1998...There is mine..lol

[Gorn]

Got 6 tickets to Tuesday's game against LSU, and you better believe I'll scream my head off for Orlando. Like Alfus said, me and all the other 23,000.

[Playboy5]

Uh , they are screaming for the name on the front of that jersey, not the coach on the bench..BIG DIFFERENCE!

[Grassy Knoll Sniper]

Sniper I like your list its show me two things:

First you are a true blue fan who views the program not thru blue goggles but with a keen eye.

The most troubling thing I found in your post is that 47% of his recruits havent made it to their senior year!

The reason I find it so troubling is that Tubby has said the reason he didn't go after Blue Chip players is because they wouldn't stay, that they would bolt after 2 years.

This is a quote from the CJ.
"Tubby builds his classes toward senior leadership, and I think you'll see more coaches trending that way," Barnhart said. "If a coach is genuinely concerned about the long-term stability of the program and not with selfish interests, he's going to have to bring in people who are committed to staying four years."


So why is it so low?

Thanks for the compliment, Doc Holiday. True, I am a UK fan who does not see the UK basketball program through Blue Goggles as do many here. I see the UK program as one in decline and in need of repair. Tubby Smith has taken a once proud program and reduced it nearly to rubble. Recruiting is a joke, NCAA tourney play is a joke, and the chat boards around the Commonwealth are screaming for his removal. Kentucky Basketball deserves better.

[Grassy Knoll Sniper]

Doc, to get back to answering your post, the reason the numbers are so low is basically because players are unhappy with Tubby's treatment once getting in to his program. Of the 17 who have left Tubby's program, only Rondo left to go to a higher level...and we all know that Tub ran him out blaming him for Team Turmoil and last year's NCAA tourney failure. Tubby, IMO, is cluesless in handling the 'present day HS stud'. Just look at this year's situation with Perry Stevenson and last year with Rekalin Simms. Both players started out the first 5 or so games of their careers great, scoring and becoming fan favorites and then all of a sudden they disappear into Tubby's doghouse, hardly ever seeing PT. Sims wouldn't take Tubby's crap and left and word around Lexington is Stevenson is considering transferring this summer. For some 'insane' reason, Tub will see to it that SHEE-ray and Bobby get most of the minutes. This type of treatment has spread to the HS stars around the country and they are choosing to go elsewhere (can you say Hansbrough and Wright..and Young just to name a few). I really can't see Patterson and Lucas putting up with Tubby's crap....they just seem to smart for that. Patterson will go to Florida to play for Billy D where he can showcase his talents (something Tubby doesn't allow in his system) and I see Lucas ending up at Okie State.

[Grassy Knoll Sniper]

I hate to bring this up again, but I'm still waiting for postings of POSITIVE TUBBY FIRSTS (his coaching record only) from all you Tubby fans out there. Let's see how many we can compile...and see if the list is as long as my 'Tubby firsts and worsts' list. If it's not, that should speak volumes about just how good a coach Orlando Tubby Smith is and whether or not he's the coach UK deserves.

[TidesHoss32]

GKS, I like your posts, and I agree 100% with you on everything you have said about Tubby. Unfortunately some on here (a few are moderators, yes) refuse to accept or hear anybody else's opinion on anything. And if yours differs from theirs, your wrong, and all hell breaks loose, but dont pay attention to that garbage. In my mind, and in my opinion, your posts (which are true, stated with facts), brings out the "well, if we cant fight it, we'll kick him off" mentality which a few on here have. That is sad, and childish. But, a great job with the facts presented in your arguments. A very informative and a very true outlay of the problems that exist in Lexington. And there ARE problems in Lexington. Dont hold your breath on the positives though man, lol, anything written will be defused and rather quickly so by your numbers. :thumpsup:

I hate to bring this up again, but I'm still waiting for postings of POSITIVE TUBBY FIRSTS (his coaching record only) from all you Tubby fans out there. Let's see how many we can compile...and see if the list is as long as my 'Tubby firsts and worsts' list. If it's not, that should speak volumes about just how good a coach Orlando Tubby Smith is and whether or not he's the coach UK deserves.

[Grassy Knoll Sniper]

Thanx a bunch TidesHoss. Yes, it's sad that I'm threatened to be booted off BluegrassRivals simply becasuse my Tubby Smith views are different from those who support him. Tubby is a good person, nobody with an ounce of common sense will argue he's not, but he's just not the 'right coach' for Kentucky...especially the one to bring the 'winningest college basketball program in America' back to greatness. (just look how quicky Roy Williams did it at UNC) He's already proven himself on that. These people who can't take the facts concering Tubby's record have no other recourse than to threaten to take action against me. They can't come back with 'positive Tubby Smith firsts' for a meaningful and civilized discussion...something I've been calling for.

Yes, there are problems in Lexington and the media is starting to expose them. (see the John Clay article in the Lex Herald I posted earlier). The sooner these problems are addressed and taken care of, the sooner UK will return to greatness. Waiting around twiddling our thumbs for Tubby to turn this mess around is not gonna solve anything. He's clueless. Bringing Kentucky back as the nation's #1 college basketball program will only occur when Tubby leaves.

[alfus21]

Need I say anything else AS TIDESHOSS32 SPOKE FOR ME AND EVERY OTHER UK FAN WHO AGREES THAT THE PROGRAM IS MEDIOCRE AT BEST AND HAS BEEN FOR THE PAST 7-8 YEARS.

They were not even close to mediocre in the 2003-2005 seasons at all.

I'm still waiting for someone to post some positive Tubby 'Firsts'. Please start out your post by "Tubby is the first UK coach to.............blah blah blah"...and please state facts, not opinions about his coaching record ....and please keep the 'firsts' discussing his record only, as I did discussing his negative firsts and worsts. I'll be waiting.

Hard to be the 1st to do anything at a University when the basketball program is nearly 100 years old when you get there. It would even be hard to compile a list of Rick's first accomplishments at Kentucky with the standard set by Rupp.

Perhaps the most BEAUTIFUL post i've ever seen in my history on blugrassrivals.
Alfus, you make me proud to be a Tubby fan!:Thumbs:

Thanks man. It's always good to have rational fans in the UK fan base.

Uh , they are screaming for the name on the front of that jersey, not the coach on the bench..BIG DIFFERENCE!

They are screaming for Tubby when they say "And your head coach of the Cats, Orlando Tubby Smith"

[alfus21]

BTW Doc Holiday.....I notice you are an an 'administrator' who sees this situation in Lexington pretty much the same as I do....and that's great. Not that I'm complaining because I consider some posters here 'uninformed and immature', but I got a PM from one of your moderators today threatening to kick me off this site if I don't cease with my Tubby posts. He says I'm doing nothing but causing trouble and will see to it that I'm permanently removed if I post any more criticing Tubby. (PM me for the mods name) Just wondering, since I'm new to this board, if this is the policy of BluegrassRivals, to boot posters who post facts for discussion purposes. If so, that's sad. All of my Tubby Smith posts are 'fact filled' and open for 'civilized' discussions. Sad that some are irritated at being presented with material that exposes the true conditions that are present with University of Kentucky Basketball.

For clarification purposes only, I will state that this wasn't me nor do I think it really happened.

Doc, to get back to answering your post, the reason the numbers are so low is basically because players are unhappy with Tubby's treatment once getting in to his program. Of the 17 who have left Tubby's program, only Rondo left to go to a higher level...and we all know that Tub ran him out blaming him for Team Turmoil and last year's NCAA tourney failure. Tubby, IMO, is cluesless in handling the 'present day HS stud'. Just look at this year's situation with Perry Stevenson and last year with Rekalin Simms. Both players started out the first 5 or so games of their careers great, scoring and becoming fan favorites and then all of a sudden they disappear into Tubby's doghouse, hardly ever seeing PT. Sims wouldn't take Tubby's crap and left and word around Lexington is Stevenson is considering transferring this summer. For some 'insane' reason, Tub will see to it that SHEE-ray and Bobby get most of the minutes. This type of treatment has spread to the HS stars around the country and they are choosing to go elsewhere (can you say Hansbrough and Wright..and Young just to name a few). I really can't see Patterson and Lucas putting up with Tubby's crap....they just seem to smart for that. Patterson will go to Florida to play for Billy D where he can showcase his talents (something Tubby doesn't allow in his system) and I see Lucas ending up at Okie State.

Hard for you to gain credibility when you say Sims was a great player. He had a 22 point game against Iowa. That's it.

Word around Lexington is that Stevenson is fine. Considering I talked to a basketball player yesterday that laughed his butt off about that. Don't believe me? PM for the info.

For some insane reason Sheray Thomas has played stellar defense in his last few games and over the last 9 games his assist turnover ratio is 17:3. With 6 blocks, and pulled down 40 rebounds over his last 8 games. Sheray is doing just fine.

I hate to bring this up again, but I'm still waiting for postings of POSITIVE TUBBY FIRSTS (his coaching record only) from all you Tubby fans out there. Let's see how many we can compile...and see if the list is as long as my 'Tubby firsts and worsts' list. If it's not, that should speak volumes about just how good a coach Orlando Tubby Smith is and whether or not he's the coach UK deserves.

Like I said earlier. How many can you compile of Rick Pitino? It's hard to do anything "first" at a University that had played for nearly 100 years when you arrived.

[Grassy Knoll Sniper]

For clarification purposes only, I will state that this wasn't me nor do I think it really happened.

Nope, t'wasn't you alfus and I don't want to divulge the 'kid' who sent it. Wouldn't want to publically embarrass the guy. If you want to know if it 'really' happened, just ask Doc. I must say it was disappointing and shocking to read and the PM was totally uncalled for. Immaturity at it's finest. I'm sure it'll not happen again.

[BelfryJustice]

This thread needs to be about UK. The discussion about the site and the staff doesn't need to take place in an open forum. That needs to be done by private message and will be looked into by staff. Doc will take care of any problem, but this isn't the place to address the issue! When you have an issue with a Moderator you do need to send a pm to an Administrator.

[Doc Holliday]

You're retarded.
That was Tubby's team. He turned a bunch of thugs into players, something Pitino obviously had no intention of doing.

Gorn just curious if they(1998 Cats) were a bunch of thugs who didn't know how to play ball then why would Tubby have said this:



"Smith even went so far as to say that UK winning the SEC this season was probably more difficult than the 1998 team winning the national championship. ''We had guys (in 1998) that had been to the national championship game in '97, like Nazr Mohammed, Scott Padgett, Heshimu Evans, Wayne Turner, Allen Edwards, Jeff Sheppard. They had all been through it before,'' said Smith."


And of course he left out Cameron Mills.

[Grassy Knoll Sniper]

Like I stated earlier, the list keeps growing.........

After yesterday's game with Bammie, Tubby is the first UK coach since the 1922 and '23 seasons to have back to back 3 game losing steaks in the month of February. Last year, Kentucky went on a 3 game skid in Feb and again this year. Simply amazing. We're just not used to this kind of thing here in the Bluegrass. Yes, Tub must go.

Hang on folks, there'll be more to add to this list soon. Just let Tub coach a few more games.

BTW.....not to rub it in, but I'm still waiting on all those 'positive Tubby firsts' from the OTS supporters.

[cards_athlete]

Tubby was the first Coach to win a National Chamionship in 1998...There is mine..lol

[EKY Sportster]

....and that was with RICK'S PLAYERS

Tubby HAS NEVER recruited a player during his 17 year coaching career that ever played in a FINAL FOUR.

So much for Tub's recruiting expertise.

:thumpsup:

[EKY Sportster]

ah hell with it man, leave Tubby there. I guess 22-10 is the new standard at UK. And people can say what they want about Pitino, he brought a program back from the dead, went to THREE final fours, and two national championships, winning one, and done it in six seasons (the 89-90 and 90-91 teams were on probation), which is a hell of a lot more than Tubby fans can say he's done in 9 seasons, oh yeah, inheriting the absolute best position in the country. Those are the only numbers that matters. Final fours and championships are the only numbers that matter. Yes, Tubby represents the university very well, off the court, and I absolutely DO NOT hold anything against his character because he is a class act, second to none. However, I do not think he is the man who should be fronting UK. Im not a Tubby basher, and I would rather have him than 80% of the coaches out there. But UK shouldnt settle for a "good coach". They deserve better. No, UK will not be getting rid of him, and no matter what petitions are out there to sign, he'll be on the sidelines next year and the years to follow. Doesnt mean the fans have to like it though.

:thumpsup: I agree with you 100%. Tubby is a good coach and a class act. But he isn't the best coach and he isn't the best recruiter and that is a big part of today's game. He also isn't the greatest motivator (as can be seen from our players' performance most of the time). But with a great contract like he has, why would he leave? And don't look for the UK Athletic Dept. to buy him out either. It won't happen. I personally would like to see a change, but it will likely be a while before we get one.

[Grassy Knoll Sniper]

[Image: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y46/Cro...Digger.jpg]

[Grassy Knoll Sniper]

If Tubby whiffs on Patterson and Lucas, the internet sports chat boards will be flooded with cartoons like the one above.

[Old school Dawg]

Tell us something we dont already know guys?