[jetpilot]

^^^The first explanation that comes to mind is he was on the bench for all but 4 minutes

Yep. I mean, why was he on the bench for all but 4 minutes?  To be fair, he didn't play well in the first half and had the worst plus/minus of anyone that played yesterday. His defense was horrible, as usual, but so was everyone's.  All that said, he's still a guy that can go off and score 20 points in 10 minutes.

---

Our remaining schedule—Ole Miss, Arkansas, Vandy and Alabama at home. Auburn, LSU, Tennessee, Miss. St. on the road.  Other than Vandy at home, are you confident in any of those games? Best case scenario we go 6-2, finish 22-9, plus a loss in SEC tournament, so ten losses heading into tournament. Worst case we go something like 3-5, plus an SEC tournament loss. That gets us to 13 losses. We ain’t even getting in if that happens. Most likely scenario I think is 5-3, plus 1-1 in SEC tourney. That’s 22-11. We slide in, but as maybe a nine, or maybe in the first four. Dayton is lovely in early March I hear.

Remember when Tubby Smith got the nickname "Ten Loss Tubby" and everybody began to hate him and he finally got ran out of town? Good times.

The Ten Loss Tubby moniker coincided with the moment in time when a lot of fans realized the REAL reason they hated Tubby... and it had nothing to do with ten losses.  But it is very much a Kentucky Thang.

---

With the exception of Billy Clyde, Kentucky has had some tremendously successful head coaches. I think at 10-12 years,  coach-fan relationships become like a lot of marriages after that amount of time---worn and frazzled. I think KY needs to make a run in the tournament to at least an Elite Eight, or else this relationship will reach a level of rancid toxicity that will make a continuation of the relationship nearly impossible. If UK bows out the first weekend,  I wouldn't be surprised to see some fans breaching the gates at Cal's mansion and putting FOR SALE signs on his lawn.

Or put another way, if Cal continues to run our storied program into the ground, he needs to be fired. News flash, people get mad when you f@ their stuff up, especially beloved stuff. This is another in a never ending parade of red herrings from you.
"Cal is ruining our great basketball program and I don't care about that and I'm not mad at Cal, I'm just scared some mean fan might put a sign in his yard." This constant stream of b/s is mind numbing and and exhausting, and doesn't fool anyone.

We are a mid-tier SEC program now.

[jetpilot]

^^^The first explanation that comes to mind is he was on the bench for all but 4 minutes

Yep. I mean, why was he on the bench for all but 4 minutes?  To be fair, he didn't play well in the first half and had the worst plus/minus of anyone that played yesterday. His defense was horrible, as usual, but so was everyone's.  All that said, he's still a guy that can go off and score 20 points in 10 minutes.

---

Our remaining schedule—Ole Miss, Arkansas, Vandy and Alabama at home. Auburn, LSU, Tennessee, Miss. St. on the road.  Other than Vandy at home, are you confident in any of those games? Best case scenario we go 6-2, finish 22-9, plus a loss in SEC tournament, so ten losses heading into tournament. Worst case we go something like 3-5, plus an SEC tournament loss. That gets us to 13 losses. We ain’t even getting in if that happens. Most likely scenario I think is 5-3, plus 1-1 in SEC tourney. That’s 22-11. We slide in, but as maybe a nine, or maybe in the first four. Dayton is lovely in early March I hear.

Remember when Tubby Smith got the nickname "Ten Loss Tubby" and everybody began to hate him and he finally got ran out of town? Good times.

The Ten Loss Tubby moniker coincided with the moment in time when a lot of fans realized the REAL reason they hated Tubby... and it had nothing to do with ten losses.  But it is very much a Kentucky Thang.

---

With the exception of Billy Clyde, Kentucky has had some tremendously successful head coaches. I think at 10-12 years,  coach-fan relationships become like a lot of marriages after that amount of time---worn and frazzled. I think KY needs to make a run in the tournament to at least an Elite Eight, or else this relationship will reach a level of rancid toxicity that will make a continuation of the relationship nearly impossible. If UK bows out the first weekend,  I wouldn't be surprised to see some fans breaching the gates at Cal's mansion and putting FOR SALE signs on his lawn.

You have advanced bain dramage. What color do you think 90% of the players are that this fan base cheers like crazy for and pays a fortune to watch in person?

[Old School Hound]

^^^The first explanation that comes to mind is he was on the bench for all but 4 minutes

Yep. I mean, why was he on the bench for all but 4 minutes?  To be fair, he didn't play well in the first half and had the worst plus/minus of anyone that played yesterday. His defense was horrible, as usual, but so was everyone's.  All that said, he's still a guy that can go off and score 20 points in 10 minutes.

---

Our remaining schedule—Ole Miss, Arkansas, Vandy and Alabama at home. Auburn, LSU, Tennessee, Miss. St. on the road.  Other than Vandy at home, are you confident in any of those games? Best case scenario we go 6-2, finish 22-9, plus a loss in SEC tournament, so ten losses heading into tournament. Worst case we go something like 3-5, plus an SEC tournament loss. That gets us to 13 losses. We ain’t even getting in if that happens. Most likely scenario I think is 5-3, plus 1-1 in SEC tourney. That’s 22-11. We slide in, but as maybe a nine, or maybe in the first four. Dayton is lovely in early March I hear.

Remember when Tubby Smith got the nickname "Ten Loss Tubby" and everybody began to hate him and he finally got ran out of town? Good times.

The Ten Loss Tubby moniker coincided with the moment in time when a lot of fans realized the REAL reason they hated Tubby... and it had nothing to do with ten losses.  But it is very much a Kentucky Thang.

---

With the exception of Billy Clyde, Kentucky has had some tremendously successful head coaches. I think at 10-12 years,  coach-fan relationships become like a lot of marriages after that amount of time---worn and frazzled. I think KY needs to make a run in the tournament to at least an Elite Eight, or else this relationship will reach a level of rancid toxicity that will make a continuation of the relationship nearly impossible. If UK bows out the first weekend,  I wouldn't be surprised to see some fans breaching the gates at Cal's mansion and putting FOR SALE signs on his lawn.

You have advanced bain dramage. What color do you think 90% of the players are that this fan base cheers like crazy for and pays a fortune to watch in person?

I talked to one of the fan base here in Corbin(he's a well -liked guy here in town) about three weeks ago. Went to look at a car he had for sale , sitting out in his yard.  We talked for a few minutes, and the conversation drifted into Kentucky basketball. Wasn't five minutes until he started using the N-word to describe a some of the black players .  Said he bet some of them couldn't spell their own names. Then he chuckled.  Sure, that element of the fan base cheers as long as these players are entertaining them or shining their shoes, otherwise it gets ugly.

[Van Hagar]

I’ll support OSH on this one. I work a job where I interact with the public every day, and UK basketball is always a hot topic. When Tubby was coach (and I have always loved Tubby) the remarks I heard on a daily basis were just disheartening, and almost always based on his skin color, even when things were going well. And I still hear it a lot on certain players, always black kids. There is still a segment of our fan base (and sadly I guess people in general) that are still just that way. Let’s not sugar coat it—Reed Sheppard wouldn’t be on the pedestal he is if he wasn’t white. I’m not saying it isn’t getting better, the younger generation for the most part could give a rat’s ass about whatever people are, but it definitely still exists.

[jetpilot]

Tubby got fired because he couldn’t beat anyone
Reed is a hero because he is a Kentucky boy and his dad was a hero back when we beat people
Still waiting on an explanation why we are the most adoring fanbase on the planet and 90% of the players are black. And Cal sucks and he’s lily white. I want Cal gone worse than I wanted Tubby gone. Let’s keep race out of it for a change and judge people on results. Tubby sucked Cal sucks end of story.

[jetpilot]

^^^The first explanation that comes to mind is he was on the bench for all but 4 minutes

Yep. I mean, why was he on the bench for all but 4 minutes?  To be fair, he didn't play well in the first half and had the worst plus/minus of anyone that played yesterday. His defense was horrible, as usual, but so was everyone's.  All that said, he's still a guy that can go off and score 20 points in 10 minutes.

---

Our remaining schedule—Ole Miss, Arkansas, Vandy and Alabama at home. Auburn, LSU, Tennessee, Miss. St. on the road.  Other than Vandy at home, are you confident in any of those games? Best case scenario we go 6-2, finish 22-9, plus a loss in SEC tournament, so ten losses heading into tournament. Worst case we go something like 3-5, plus an SEC tournament loss. That gets us to 13 losses. We ain’t even getting in if that happens. Most likely scenario I think is 5-3, plus 1-1 in SEC tourney. That’s 22-11. We slide in, but as maybe a nine, or maybe in the first four. Dayton is lovely in early March I hear.

Remember when Tubby Smith got the nickname "Ten Loss Tubby" and everybody began to hate him and he finally got ran out of town? Good times.

The Ten Loss Tubby moniker coincided with the moment in time when a lot of fans realized the REAL reason they hated Tubby... and it had nothing to do with ten losses.  But it is very much a Kentucky Thang.

---

With the exception of Billy Clyde, Kentucky has had some tremendously successful head coaches. I think at 10-12 years,  coach-fan relationships become like a lot of marriages after that amount of time---worn and frazzled. I think KY needs to make a run in the tournament to at least an Elite Eight, or else this relationship will reach a level of rancid toxicity that will make a continuation of the relationship nearly impossible. If UK bows out the first weekend,  I wouldn't be surprised to see some fans breaching the gates at Cal's mansion and putting FOR SALE signs on his lawn.

You have advanced bain dramage. What color do you think 90% of the players are that this fan base cheers like crazy for and pays a fortune to watch in person?

I talked to one of the fan base here in Corbin(he's a well -liked guy here in town) about three weeks ago. Went to look at a car he had for sale , sitting out in his yard.  We talked for a few minutes, and the conversation drifted into Kentucky basketball. Wasn't five minutes until he started using the N-word to describe a some of the black players .  Said he bet some of them couldn't spell their own names. Then he chuckled.  Sure, that element of the fan base cheers as long as these players are entertaining them or shining their shoes, otherwise it gets ugly.

“Shining their shoes” idiot red herring king. I don’t know anyone who talks like your friend. You probably made it up. Or maybe Corbin is a backwards ass inbred hillbilly town.

[Van Hagar]

Tubby far from sucked. He was a damn good basketball coach, probably the best bench coach we’ve ever had, and he was an even better person. He didn’t play a style our fan base liked and he eventually wasn’t a good recruiter. And a large portion of our fan base despised him because he was black. And that’s just plainly and simply the truth. Don’t pretend they think any different in the enlightened hollers of Pike Co., because they don’t.

[jetpilot]

HE LOST 10+ GAMES A YEAR AND ONLY WON WITH PITINO’S PLAYERS. I DON’T CARE IF HE WAS A NICE GUY. HE WAS A NICE GUY IN A WAY BUT WHO WANTS A NICE GUY IN THE WAY. DAMN VAN IF YOU AND OHS WERE IN CHARGE WE WOULD BE VANDERBILT

OH GAAAAAA

[jetpilot]

Tubby far from sucked. He was a damn good basketball coach, probably the best bench coach we’ve ever had, and he was an even better person. He didn’t play a style our fan base liked and he eventually wasn’t a good recruiter. And a large portion of our fan base despised him because he was black. And that’s just plainly and simply the truth. Don’t pretend they think any different in the enlightened hollers of Pike Co., because they don’t.

And don’t tell me what people in Pikeville think. Tubby couldn’t win and he had to go. Black, white, purple, plaid. And I live in the middle of one of THE nicest, most beautiful well to do thriving towns in KY and beyond. Stop it with the identity politics horse sh!t and go by performance. Tubby and Cal both suck.

[jetpilot]

I’ll support OSH on this one. I work a job where I interact with the public every day, and UK basketball is always a hot topic. When Tubby was coach (and I have always loved Tubby) the remarks I heard on a daily basis were just disheartening, and almost always based on his skin color, even when things were going well. And I still hear it a lot on certain players, always black kids. There is still a segment of our fan base (and sadly I guess people in general) that are still just that way. Let’s not sugar coat it—Reed Sheppard wouldn’t be on the pedestal he is if he wasn’t white. I’m not saying it isn’t getting better, the younger generation for the most part could give a rat’s ass about whatever people are, but it definitely still exists.

Last point 
You saying Reed Sheppard is only loved because he is white is racist AF. It just is.
Which means between the two of us you are the only racist.

Sad to discover you are an identity politics guy VH, you did a good job of not wearing it on your sleeve like OHS

[Old School Hound]

I’ll support OSH on this one. I work a job where I interact with the public every day, and UK basketball is always a hot topic. When Tubby was coach (and I have always loved Tubby) the remarks I heard on a daily basis were just disheartening, and almost always based on his skin color, even when things were going well. And I still hear it a lot on certain players, always black kids. There is still a segment of our fan base (and sadly I guess people in general) that are still just that way. Let’s not sugar coat it—Reed Sheppard wouldn’t be on the pedestal he is if he wasn’t white. I’m not saying it isn’t getting better, the younger generation for the most part could give a rat’s ass about whatever people are, but it definitely still exists.

This is an A+ post . When Tubby was coach, I heard the racist comments of some sort every single week when UK basketball was the topic. And the comments were there even when KY was winning a lot. Tubby's maybe the finest man that has ever held the position of UK coach(Joe B. was a gem of a guy, too). Rupp was an awful person and he is idolized by the white bigots that make up a part of the fanbase.

[Van Hagar]

Ok. I’m a racist. I raised a mixed race kid. He was a hell of an athlete. I heard him called the n word as early as nine years old by adults when he was better than their kids he was competing against. And this was in another of the so-called nice, beautiful, well-to-do thriving towns in Ky. You’re living in a fantasy world if you think it’s any different in Pikeville. And the Tubby only won with Pitino’s players things is ignorant, always makes me go AHHHHH! That’s like saying we would have won the title that year with me,
you, or OSH coaching. It’s belittling. He outcoached Coach K head to head in the tournament that year. And Tubby would have won another had Keith Bogans not rolled his ankle before the Marquette game in 2003. Boy, that would have changed the narrative. He did have to go, I’m not disputing that, the way he wanted to play at the end didn’t fit UK and he obviously had lost interest in recruiting. And Cal probably needs to move on too, 10-plus years at this job would kill most anyone. But don’t ever act like there isn’t a racial element that still exists with the ‘older” shall we say part of the UK fan base. It’s not political, it’s just the way it is. Hopefully my younger son’s generation is on the way to turning that around.

[Old School Hound]

Tubby far from sucked. He was a damn good basketball coach, probably the best bench coach we’ve ever had, and he was an even better person. He didn’t play a style our fan base liked and he eventually wasn’t a good recruiter. And a large portion of our fan base despised him because he was black. And that’s just plainly and simply the truth. Don’t pretend they think any different in the enlightened hollers of Pike Co., because they don’t.

Absolute TRUTH!  Every, Damn, Word.

---

Ok. I’m a racist. I raised a mixed race kid. He was a hell of an athlete. I heard him called the n word as early as nine years old by adults when he was better than their kids he was competing against. And this was in another of the so-called nice, beautiful, well-to-do thriving towns in Ky.  You’re living in a fantasy world if you think it’s any different in Pikeville. And the Tubby only won with Pitino’s players things is ignorant, always makes me go AHHHHH! That’s like saying we would have won the title that year with me,
you, or OSH coaching. It’s belittling. He outcoached Coach K head to head in the tournament that year. And Tubby would have won another had Keith Bogans not rolled his ankle before the Marquette game in 2003. Boy, that would have changed the narrative. He did have to go, I’m not disputing that, the way he wanted to play at the end didn’t fit UK and he obviously had lost interest in recruiting. And Cal probably needs to move on too, 10-plus years at this job would kill most anyone. But don’t ever act like there isn’t a racial element that still exists with the ‘older” shall we say part of the UK fan base. It’s not political, it’s just the way it is. Hopefully my younger son’s generation is on the way to turning that around.

Van, it's the same old &h!t that we've heard recently from some out on the campaign trail.  One side simply don't want to admit that we are, and have always been , a very racist country. I heard the racist stuff at least once or twice every week when Tubby was coach. The losses just reminded them of why they REALLY hate , just as the losses now remind them of why they really hate this northeastern guy.

---

Ok. I’m a racist. I raised a mixed race kid. He was a hell of an athlete. I heard him called the n word as early as nine years old by adults when he was better than their kids he was competing against. And this was in another of the so-called nice, beautiful, well-to-do thriving towns in Ky.  You’re living in a fantasy world if you think it’s any different in Pikeville. And the Tubby only won with Pitino’s players things is ignorant, always makes me go AHHHHH! That’s like saying we would have won the title that year with me,
you, or OSH coaching. It’s belittling. He outcoached Coach K head to head in the tournament that year. And Tubby would have won another had Keith Bogans not rolled his ankle before the Marquette game in 2003. Boy, that would have changed the narrative. He did have to go, I’m not disputing that, the way he wanted to play at the end didn’t fit UK and he obviously had lost interest in recruiting. And Cal probably needs to move on too, 10-plus years at this job would kill most anyone. But don’t ever act like there isn’t a racial element that still exists with the ‘older” shall we say part of the UK fan base. It’s not political, it’s just the way it is. Hopefully my younger son’s generation is on the way to turning that around.

Coach Smith absolutely decimated Coach K in that '98 Duke game.  We had a dandy in Tubby. If he could have recruited as effectively as Cal, Tubby would have had multiple national titles.

[jetpilot]

Tubby sucked and had to go.
Cal sucks and has to go.
Not a color thing, not where he’s from, not who he votes for. Don’t give a sh!t. That’s excuses for losing by losers.

We are a second-tier SEC basketball program now. Fire the person responsible and get somebody else.

[jetpilot]

And here’s a history lesson for the identity politics race hustlers. White people didn’t start slavery but they did end it. And yes there is racism in many forms all over the world. Brainwashed liberals will try to convince you that it’s only white American conservatives who hate. You have to be a special kind of stupid to believe that.

Van, I’m sorry your boy got mistreated. Nothing more vile and disgusting than hurting a young person. I have found that people who do that lead very miserable lives. Hopefully he knows that and the experience made him stronger and more determined.

The fact is where I live there hasn’t been any racial trouble that I can ever remember. The black and foreign kids at my HS were popular kids. Everybody got along. I don’t even remember one instance of mistreatment. I guess you guys just had a different experience.

[jetpilot]

Since we are off the rails in 50 directions while discussing what should be a very easy decision to get rid of Cal, I will say I think Tubby was a 10x better coach than Cal. But it’s a fact that after Pitino’s players were gone the loses started piling up because Tubby wasn’t getting UK caliber players.

[Van Hagar]

Yeah, we have gone off the rails, and I wasn’t trying to start any kind of political thing, I got over that a while back, gonna try to stay out of it.
I have been hopeful that Cal would get back to the way he was when he first got here, when he had the fire. I really thought this team was gonna do it. But there are too many instances that leave me scratching my head. I mean, I sort of agree with OSH that Cal was the right fit for UK, our fan base seems happier with a splashy coach that can really recruit. But we’ve got to do better with them on the floor, and the negative results compared to what they were before are beginning to be sort of staggering. Alabama, Auburn and Tennessee are having more success than us as far as winning SEC regular season and tournament titles. UConn, North Carolina, Duke and Kansas are all having more NCAA tournament success. I can’t imagine what our fan base will be like if we don’t get out of the first weekend of this year’s tourney. And yes, the tourney is sort of random, but the long haul of a regular season isn’t, and look how we’ve fallen there. I don’t know the answer with the ludicrous lifetime contract (no one, Nick Saban, Coach K, no one) should be given a lifetime contract, so I actually think Cal will be here as long as he wants to be. So it’s just a mess right now.

[Old School Hound]

Also, Jet and other Cal critics on social media have propagated the myth about the "lifetime" contract thing for so long that many people believe it. Say something over and over until people believe it ... sound familiar. lol

Cal was never given any such thing. His contract runs through mid '29 , I believe. If he chooses to not coach after this season('23-'24), he can still draw a salary (I'm wanting to say it's around 900K) as an advisor , if he so chooses. Either way, coach or advisor his contract is up in June of 2029. That might seem like a lifetime to the naysayers, but's it's nothing of the sort. Readers, quit believing everything you hear online. Truth Social misinformation at it's finest. Listen to Old School. You might not agree with me but you'll not be misinformed. :)

[Granny Bear]

That would make him 71? Hmmmmm......


I think it's a good time to piss off everybody. Tubby was a great bench coach, but he couldn't recruit. I don't believe he ever really tried to recruit. I resented him for a long time because he basically fled Lexington and even the press didn't know about it. UK fans were livid and wanted a good recruiter. Well, they got one. UK and their fans are living exactly what they asked for. We are a prepping ground for the pros. School pride has nothing to do with it and sometimes teamwork will go out the window.

I got over my resentment because I really don't know what all went on that made Tubby leave so quickly and quietly. My daughter lived close to them when they were in Lexington, and I can tell you that Mrs. Smith was a outstanding woman. She was highly active in all community activities. She was at my grandchildren's elementary school a couple times every week to read to them, and speak about various subjects. I've listened to her many many times. She had NO problem with correcting the kids that needed correcting. And it didn't make a difference to her what their last name was. She treated every kid the same, and I like to think that's how she raised her kids.

UK and their fans got exactly what they said they wanted with Cal. And their still getting it. Gone are the days of 4 year players and senior leadership. Gone is the school pride and teamwork, unless of course that teamwork will propel an individual. What's worse is that this type of bull crap is being started at the high school level. Makes you wonder how many of a team is actually FROM the community that they represent on the gym floor.

[Old School Hound]

That would make him 71?  Hmmmmm......


I think it's a good time to piss off  everybody.  Tubby was a great bench coach, but he couldn't recruit.  I don't believe he ever really tried to recruit.  I resented him for a long time because he basically fled Lexington and even the press didn't know about it. UK fans were livid and wanted a good recruiter.  Well, they got one.  UK and their fans are living exactly what they asked for.  We are a prepping ground for the pros.  School pride has nothing to do with it and sometimes teamwork will go out the window.

I got over my resentment because I really don't know what all went on that made Tubby leave so quickly and quietly.  My daughter lived close to them when they were in Lexington, and I can tell you that Mrs. Smith was a outstanding woman.  She was highly active in all community activities.  She was at my grandchildren's elementary school a couple times every week to read to them, and speak about various subjects.  I've listened to her many many times.  She had NO problem with correcting the kids that needed correcting.  And it didn't make a difference to her what their last name was.  She treated every kid the same, and I like to think that's how she raised her kids.

UK and their fans got exactly what they said they wanted with Cal.  And their still getting it.  Gone are the days of 4 year players and senior leadership.  Gone is the school pride and teamwork, unless of course that teamwork will propel an individual.  What's worse is that this type of bull crap is being started at the high school level. Makes you wonder how many of a team is actually FROM the community that they represent on the gym floor.

Yes, college basketball is not a quality product nowadays.  Westside mentioned it in another thread. And granny's right, it's starts at high school and even earlier. so we shouldn't be surprised at what we are seeing in college.  As far as Tubby , great man, terrific coach. Didn't seem to be crazy about the recruiting aspect of the job. Saul was a nice little player who gave 100% of what he had. Fans resented Tubby for Saul being the point guard. I'd say Tubby was ready to get out of Dodge before it got any nastier. I heard he received a lot of racist crap and even death threats. I don't blame him for leaving quickly and quietly.

[jetpilot]

That would make him 71?  Hmmmmm......


I think it's a good time to piss off  everybody.  Tubby was a great bench coach, but he couldn't recruit.  I don't believe he ever really tried to recruit.  I resented him for a long time because he basically fled Lexington and even the press didn't know about it. UK fans were livid and wanted a good recruiter.  Well, they got one.  UK and their fans are living exactly what they asked for.  We are a prepping ground for the pros.  School pride has nothing to do with it and sometimes teamwork will go out the window.

I got over my resentment because I really don't know what all went on that made Tubby leave so quickly and quietly.  My daughter lived close to them when they were in Lexington, and I can tell you that Mrs. Smith was a outstanding woman.  She was highly active in all community activities.  She was at my grandchildren's elementary school a couple times every week to read to them, and speak about various subjects.  I've listened to her many many times.  She had NO problem with correcting the kids that needed correcting.  And it didn't make a difference to her what their last name was.  She treated every kid the same, and I like to think that's how she raised her kids.

UK and their fans got exactly what they said they wanted with Cal.  And their still getting it.  Gone are the days of 4 year players and senior leadership.  Gone is the school pride and teamwork, unless of course that teamwork will propel an individual.  What's worse is that this type of bull crap is being started at the high school level. Makes you wonder how many of a team is actually FROM the community that they represent on the gym floor.

Yes, college basketball is not a quality product nowadays.  Westside mentioned it in another thread. And granny's right, it's starts at high school and even earlier. so we shouldn't be surprised at what we are seeing in college.  As far as Tubby , great man, terrific coach. Didn't seem to be crazy about the recruiting aspect of the job. Saul was a nice little player who gave 100% of what he had. Fans resented Tubby for Saul being the point guard. I'd say Tubby was ready to get out of Dodge before it got any nastier. I heard he received a lot of racist crap and even death threats. I don't blame him for leaving quickly and quietly.

It is for the elite programs, just not for struggling mid-tier programs like UK. Watch the NCAA tournament this year that the whole country goes nuts over (If UK makes the tournament or not wink wink) and tell me it's not awesome. College basketball has never been better. We just don't see it as much because we can't beat anybody. Red herring #5897452

[Wildcat_blue]

That would make him 71?  Hmmmmm......


I think it's a good time to piss off  everybody.  Tubby was a great bench coach, but he couldn't recruit.  I don't believe he ever really tried to recruit.  I resented him for a long time because he basically fled Lexington and even the press didn't know about it. UK fans were livid and wanted a good recruiter.  Well, they got one.  UK and their fans are living exactly what they asked for.  We are a prepping ground for the pros.  School pride has nothing to do with it and sometimes teamwork will go out the window.

I got over my resentment because I really don't know what all went on that made Tubby leave so quickly and quietly.  My daughter lived close to them when they were in Lexington, and I can tell you that Mrs. Smith was a outstanding woman.  She was highly active in all community activities.  She was at my grandchildren's elementary school a couple times every week to read to them, and speak about various subjects.  I've listened to her many many times.  She had NO problem with correcting the kids that needed correcting.  And it didn't make a difference to her what their last name was.  She treated every kid the same, and I like to think that's how she raised her kids.

UK and their fans got exactly what they said they wanted with Cal.  And their still getting it.  Gone are the days of 4 year players and senior leadership.  Gone is the school pride and teamwork, unless of course that teamwork will propel an individual.  What's worse is that this type of bull crap is being started at the high school level. Makes you wonder how many of a team is actually FROM the community that they represent on the gym floor.

To me college basketball is the best it has ever been.  The old school mentality of 3-4 year players/good teams have been trumped by the advancement in society.  Players no longer are limited by access or various obstacles outside of their control.  Online exposure, weight training, skill development, competitive tournaments/games, information in general about the game to be self sufficient, etc. have all started at an earlier age way beyond the players of the 70’s, 80’s, 90’s, early 2000’s.  Now, not saying the North Carolinas/Georgetowns/Michigan/UNLV/Houston/ and Duke’s of old couldn’t compete but across the board top to bottom especially with the transfer portal basketball is better and more competitive than ever before.  Just in a short amount of time a #16 isn’t as shocking to upset a #1.  35 years ago this was virtually impossible.  How does Duke/North Carolina/Uconn/Kansas still compete year in and year out?  School pride has never left those programs and I feel the same for us and all have had coaching changes.  Maybe Rupp needs a face lift with more students or maybe we need to start recruiting more in state players, maybe we should have a mix of more transfer portal players vs new, I have no clue what the answer is but something definitely has to change.  As far as game of bball, it’s never been better IMO.  Question is how do we adapt because we are dying

[Granny Bear]

I understand and totally respect your opinion WildcatBlue, but I don't agree with it. Well, not ALL of it.

If the game has never been better, why is it dying? I know I'm an old fashioned thinker, but when we commercialized basketball (and this includes a lot of ideas recently implemented), I think we cheapened it and destined a large part of it to be destroyed. Because some or all of the people involved could cash in on the $$, a lot of schools are doing these things as well.

I don't see this part as an improvement.

[Old School Hound]

I understand and totally respect your opinion WildcatBlue, but I don't agree with it.  Well, not ALL of it.

If the game has never been better, why is it dying?  I know I'm an old fashioned thinker, but when we commercialized basketball (and this includes a lot of ideas recently implemented), I think we cheapened it  and destined a large part of it to be destroyed.  Because some or all of the people involved could cash in on the $$, a lot of schools are doing these things as well.

I don't see this part as an improvement.

The athleticism of today's college player is incredibly good. The lack of fundamentally  sound play exhibited by them on the court is shockingly bad. Are we really surprised that so many  kids can't play sound, disciplined defense?  They didn't have to play defense prior to college. The game has changed a lot since I was a kid and John Wooden was coaching. College now is just a brief pit stop to a NBA career. NIL, transfer portal, one and dones... college sports is not in a good place, imo.

[Wildcat_blue]

I understand and totally respect your opinion WildcatBlue, but I don't agree with it.  Well, not ALL of it.

If the game has never been better, why is it dying?  I know I'm an old fashioned thinker, but when we commercialized basketball (and this includes a lot of ideas recently implemented), I think we cheapened it  and destined a large part of it to be destroyed.  Because some or all of the people involved could cash in on the $$, a lot of schools are doing these things as well.

I don't see this part as an improvement.

I agree completely with you, my point is just based off pure talent from an athlete standpoint and basketball.  We absolutely are destroying the game with $$

[jetpilot]

Dang people, make up your minds. Two things.

1. People complained for years that the players were being exploited, that they were generating zillions for the evil NCAA and the schools and getting nothing. I don't know how many "isms" were in the old setup, I'm sure our resident "ism" expert can tell us. I don't have a problem with the players getting paid, everyone else involved is making bank.

2. If you have a problem with lack of fundamentals, blame the COACHES. Human beings aren't born with great basketball fundamentals, they are taught. If a player can't or won't play defense, DON'T RECRUIT THEM AND/OR BENCH THEM UNTIL THEY CAN AND WILL. Elisha Justice is a great example. Played at Shelby Valley. SV won the state championship in 2010. Best fundamentals of any HS team I have ever seen. Every player on that team. They could all shoot, handle the ball, play defense, played very smart, made over 78% of their FTs, on and on...

Here is what they did in Rupp:

Mar 18, 10 Paducah Tilghman at Rupp Arena, Lexington (W) 68 - 45 no PNC/KHSAA Boys Sweet Sixteen® Basketball Tournament ⇄
Mar 19, 10 West Jessamine at Rupp Arena, Lexington (W) 67 - 54 no PNC/KHSAA Boys Sweet Sixteen® Basketball Tournament ⇄
Mar 20, 10 Mason County at Rupp Arena, Lexington (W) 71 - 51 no PNC/KHSAA Boys Sweet Sixteen® Basketball Tournament ⇄
Mar 20, 10 Ballard at Rupp Arena, Lexington (W) 73 - 61 no PNC/KHSAA Boys Sweet Sixteen® Basketball Tournament

Do you think all those boys who were so fundamentally sound were born that way or were they taught?

Now Justice is HC at Pikeville and his teams play great defense. He has taught them that.


College basketball sucks so we sucking is no big deal is just another rationalization. Blame coaches. Not the game itself, players, fans, the playing surface, the building, or anything else.

[Wildcat_blue]

Dang people, make up your minds. Two things.

1. People complained for years that the players were being exploited, that they were generating zillions for the evil NCAA and the schools and getting nothing. I don't know how many "isms" were in the old setup, I'm sure our resident "ism" expert can tell us. I don't have a problem with the players getting paid, everyone else involved is making bank.

2. If you have a problem with lack of fundamentals, blame the COACHES. Human beings aren't born with great basketball fundamentals, they are taught. If a player can't or won't play defense, DON'T RECRUIT THEM AND/OR BENCH THEM UNTIL THEY CAN AND WILL. Elisha Justice is a great example. Played at Shelby Valley. SV won the state championship in 2010. Best fundamentals of any HS team I have ever seen. Every player on that team. They could all shoot, handle the ball, play defense, played very smart, made over 78% of their FTs, on and on...

Here is what they did in Rupp:

Mar 18, 10 Paducah Tilghman at Rupp Arena, Lexington (W) 68 - 45 no PNC/KHSAA Boys Sweet Sixteen® Basketball Tournament ⇄
Mar 19, 10 West Jessamine at Rupp Arena, Lexington (W) 67 - 54 no PNC/KHSAA Boys Sweet Sixteen® Basketball Tournament ⇄
Mar 20, 10 Mason County at Rupp Arena, Lexington (W) 71 - 51 no PNC/KHSAA Boys Sweet Sixteen® Basketball Tournament ⇄
Mar 20, 10 Ballard at Rupp Arena, Lexington (W) 73 - 61 no PNC/KHSAA Boys Sweet Sixteen® Basketball Tournament

Do you think all those boys who were so fundamentally sound were born that way or were they taught?

Now Justice is HC at Pikeville and his teams play great defense. He has taught them that.


College basketball sucks so we sucking is no big deal is just another rationalization. Blame coaches. Not the game itself, players, fans, the playing surface, the building, or anything else.

Let’s take one example out of millions and make our point based off one example that’s how it is, love it.  You know how many unbelievable coaches lost because of crappy talent and vis versa.  Obviously you’re not an athlete (high school hero in your own mind sure), sometimes you can’t teach athletic ability nor does someone who doesn’t have athletic ability become top tier superb (roles players and good very good players at their level)!  Those who don’t have it work harder than the ones who have and the ones that have it wish they had the heart of the ones who don’t have it.  Justice has done an incredible job and not taking one thing from him or his story; it’s awesome!  Come on tho, you really think a coach can wave a magic wand?  Hilarious and yes college sports are pure, leave the money out of it until a kid is legally responsible enough to handle it in the form a of a trust fund, etc.  I promise giving yourself a couple million dollars at the age of 19 years old we all know where you would end up!  Same goes for many and if UK wins the national championship under CAL (far reach) please don’t dare get the least bit excited.