[Orange Blaze]

I disagree with you about the Russell coaching change in 2014.  Coach Ivan McGlone's last teams at Russell were uninspired groups that weren't competitive with good teams, sort of like what I saw last night on the field for Belfry.  Every coach has his time and when it goes downhill, it goes fast.  That doesn't mean I don't respect what legendary coaches like that have done in their careers.  It's just the reality of the passage of time.

As for Raceland getting better since "the prodigal son" left, I disagree here as well.  That same "prodigal son" had beaten Raceland by double digits for the past 3 years including a 41-0 demolition in 2019.  The problem for the "prodigal son" now?  Raceland took advantage of the COVID year and Russell didn't.  5 sophomores who were on the losing side of that 41-0 beating were now on the winning side of this year's 40 point Raceland win over Russell as 5th year seniors.  Add in the fact that 2 players on the Russell sideline in that 41-0 beating are now the QB and leading WR for Raceland this year.  Throw in a couple of decent Ohio transfers and a couple of decent Ashland transfers to the mix of old players and you have "Raceland getting better" defined for you.  It wasn't due to the "prodigal son" leaving Raceland.

As for Tackett, he has done a great job this season and should be at the front of the pack for 3A coach of the year.

I’ve never been a fan of the Covid holdback rule.  I get it people lost a lot during that period but I feel like too many schools took advantage of this rule for the wrong reasons.  If a kid was struggling academically because of Covid then sure hold them back but I don’t agree with the mass holdbacks that you saw at a lot of schools just to get another year of sports.  I know a lot of people get all bent out of shape and say kids only get to be kids once but sometimes you just have to learn the hard way that life isn’t fair and there are no do overs.  As much as I love my Rams this season will always have an asterisk beside it in my mind because we are winning with a team full of kids that should have already graduated.

[ROTC]

Beautiful thing about America we all have noses and opinions and are free to express them!

I’m not a fan, necessarily, of either team. Just have my thought.

[pirateforlife]

The biggest disappointment I seen last night was no fight from Belfry. Usually when your season or career (seniors) is on the line you play with a little extra intensity but that wasn’t the case last night. To be honest Belfry didn’t put up much more of a fight against Ashland than Magoffin County did last week. This Belfry team finished 6-6. When is the last time a Belfry team finished the season without a winning record?

[ROTC]

Beautiful thing about America we all have noses and opinions and are free to express them!

I’m not a fan, necessarily, of either team.  Just have my thought.

But you can’t discuss recruiting or transfers, because that was part of the problem during McGlone’s last years.


And we all know Belfry has been “attracting quality enrollees” for years.

That topic would need its own thread for the 1,000th time HAHAHAHA

[16thregioner]

I’ve never been a fan of the Covid holdback rule.  I get it people lost a lot during that period but I feel like too many schools took advantage of this rule for the wrong reasons.  If a kid was struggling academically because of Covid then sure hold them back but I don’t agree with the mass holdbacks that you saw at a lot of schools just to get another year of sports.  I know a lot of people get all bent out of shape and say kids only get to be kids once but sometimes you just have to learn the hard way that life isn’t fair and there are no do overs.  As much as I love my Rams this season will always have an asterisk beside it in my mind because we are winning with a team full of kids that should have already graduated.

Don't get me wrong.  I don't criticize Raceland for what they did, have done, and are doing.  In fact, I applaud them and hope they win the state this season.  The new turf field, schools, and facility off 23 look fantastic.  A state championship banner would make them look even better.  I'm not a politician or anything, but I support anything that brings positive light to our area.

The same Russell administration that signaled football success was important by running off Ivan McGlone, though, gave the opposite signal when they didn't support the COVID holdback rule.  And for whatever reason, Russell always seems to be on the losing end when it comes to impactful sports transfers.  That's always amazed me because Russell has been traditionally known as the top academic school in our area for decades.

Holding back players and getting transfers is a necessary evil if you want to win sports trophies, titles, and banners.  All the teams that our northeastern Kentucky teams will face deep in the football playoffs have done the same things.  It's a different time and teams win in different ways these days with the "off the field" games being played being equally consequential to the end results you see on the fields or courts as what you see "on the field".

I don't think Raceland would deserve an asterisk if they win the state this season.  If they deserve one, then so does most every other team that wins regional titles and state titles over the past decade.

---

The biggest disappointment I seen last night was no fight from Belfry. Usually when your season or career (seniors) is on the line you play with a little extra intensity but that wasn’t the case last night. To be honest Belfry didn’t put up much more of a fight against Ashland than Magoffin County did last week. This Belfry team finished 6-6. When is the last time a Belfry team finished the season without a winning record?

This is what I was trying to point out.  The passion and fight didn't seem to be there.  I've seen a lot of Belfry teams over the years, including some of the lesser talented ones.  Even the lesser talented ones didn't go down without a fight, though, sometimes literally.  This team went down without a fight.

[RTruth]

For whoever said: “this Belfry team reminded me of some of Russell’s later teams when Ivan McGlone had lost his mojo….time for Haywood to retire…..”

You answered your own dumb question!!!! How bad of a mistake was it at Russell to throw Coach McGlone away like trash and bring in the PRODIGAL SON to replace him.

Team he left got better; Russell got…. A LOT …..worse.

Also, read whoever made the Nebraska analogy. I was talking to some of my family the other day about that scenario and what a huge mistake FROST made going there.

Calm down.

---

And furthermore…..RTRUTH- when Coach Tackett has let’s say…..several hundred wins and more rings than one hand can wear….then and only then can you start the debate you are trying to make.

I don’t give 2 f@(7$ who coaches either team. If we played both of them I hope Pikeville beats them by 100.

[ROTC]

Pikeville would beat the New York Giants by 100. It’s there time; all hail…..Pikeville!!!

Great day to be alive and be an American!!!

[Deuce8]

Time for haywood to retire?

LOL!!!!!!   You didn't just serious post that?????   He won a championship last season.   They are loaded with young talent now.   Ahhhh, no.  It's not time.

This is absolutely laughable…. He has won 8 titles and played in I don’t know how many ……. I’m actually laughing out loud.

[irishcard16]

If the middle school pirates get it done today and win that will mean every kid next year from juniors down will have won a MS state championship. If the struggles in HS continue next year then maybe questions need to be asked.

Anyone know if the Middle School Championship will be live streamed today?

Yes on KYMSFA Facebook page. There is a pay wall but they will all be streamed today.

[#55PirateFan]

Belfry losing didn’t surprise me but getting a running clock on them absolutely did. Ashland struggled with Russell and lost to a not very good Hazard team. Thought it would be more competitive. Even on Belfry’s “down” years they have a couple studs who can carry them farther than they probably should go aka Isaac Dixon last year. If he wouldn’t have got his 5th season last year would have been similar to this year. Belfry should be improved next year but this year was disappointing. Really only beat 1 decent team in Central and weren’t even competitive in most others besides the Pulaski game. This Belfry team just didn’t improve like we see most Belfry teams and you could easily make the argument they actually got worse throughout the season.

This right here! You are 100% correct, if Isaac Dixon wasn't on that team last year, NO WAY Belfry does what they did. Not because the Pirates weren't good, their just really young. Without Dixon last year, Belfry has two bad seasons in a row. But, in my opinion, their rebuild "should be" complete now. I wasn't shocked by how this team played this year, I honestly wasn't shocked by this Ashland score either, this team just wasn't good. What will shock me is if this team isn't MUCH improved next season and atleast start to resemble the Belfry teams of the 2010's.

[AgentOrange]

Overreaction Saturday.
State Championship last season with a stud surrounded with young players.
14 Championship appearances in 20 years…
Coach Haywood is as good as there ever will be when it comes to preparing a team to play and having a game plan to give his team a chance to win.
Unfortunately you don’t always have championship talent or a few studs to help shoulder a little extra load.
Belfry has played some of The Who’s who in Kentucky the past few season especially when you consider who is willing to play them (given their classification/style/geographic location)
The Pirates have a lot of young talent on the roster and just won the 8th grade state championship. Give Coach Haywood and the boys a year or two and I’m confident you’ll see them making a push to Kroger again.

[bo67]

What a shame lol

[KColley]

T-CATS made me LOL hard on this thread. He's back on his high horse. Let's wait until playing CAL or Tilghman before getting all high and mighty.

Anyway, Ashland has a great nucleus of players. Those mentioned (Jennings, Strader, Terrell) are great players and Sam Lyons and Rieday Rucker are going to almost certainly add to that next year. Lyons reminds me of Ricky Padron a little bit. Rucker is a bruiser and will compliment Jennings really well in the backfield.

[KColley]

I disagree with you about the Russell coaching change in 2014.  Coach Ivan McGlone's last teams at Russell were uninspired groups that weren't competitive with good teams, sort of like what I saw last night on the field for Belfry.  Every coach has his time and when it goes downhill, it goes fast.  That doesn't mean I don't respect what legendary coaches like that have done in their careers.  It's just the reality of the passage of time.

As for Raceland getting better since "the prodigal son" left, I disagree here as well.  That same "prodigal son" had beaten Raceland by double digits for the past 3 years including a 41-0 demolition in 2019.  The problem for the "prodigal son" now?  Raceland took advantage of the COVID year and Russell didn't.  5 sophomores who were on the losing side of that 41-0 beating were now on the winning side of this year's 40 point Raceland win over Russell as 5th year seniors.  Add in the fact that 2 players on the Russell sideline in that 41-0 beating are now the QB and leading WR for Raceland this year.  Throw in a couple of decent Ohio transfers and a couple of decent Ashland transfers to the mix of old players and you have "Raceland getting better" defined for you.  It wasn't due to the "prodigal son" leaving Raceland.

As for Tackett, he has done a great job this season and should be at the front of the pack for 3A coach of the year.

I agree with you and I played on those teams. Coach did as good of a job as I think he could've at his age, but many fans longed to get out of the Wing-T offense and there wasn't enough patience in terms of development from everybody involved, coaches and players.

I have always thought and wished that Garry Morris would take over as head coach. He would do a terrific job. He brought the kind of energy that a program needs and had energy that was contagious. I know that a lot of players have the utmost respect for him.

I agree with you on Chad Tackett, he's done a great job. Seems like a solid person too.

[EKUAlum05]

No reason for an over reaction.

Last year was a testament to three things:
- Coach Haywood is a legend who gets as much as he can from what he has to work with.
- Isaac Dixon is a legendary player.
- Class 3A was not very good.

The fact remains, the past three years are essentially something most have seen coming. Belfry Middle has been dominant, but had a window where they were struggling to beat smaller local teams and losing bad to others. Numbers on the roster dropped dramatically. Players and families had to leave the school district for a multitude of reasons. 2022 is the by product of all that coming to a head.

The Middle School is typically the best barometer of what's coming three years after when those players become Juniors.

Right now Belfry has a ton of talent but it is in the Sophomore, Freshman, and 8th Grade ranks. They are simply not ready physically. Add to it Belfry has played a brutal schedule littered with powerhouse and larger schools. Last year's Championship run was kind of a bonus... but right now the simple truth is Belfry is still a couple years away from really being reloaded.

That's not to say there are not red flags that need to be addressed that can improve the program and expedite the timeline. For the life of me I still can't comprehend why Belfry seems to be the most injury prone team in the State year after year but at some point you have to think this is a trend and not a freak occurrence. Special Teams have gotten progressively worse and is borderline atrocious. Belfry loses probably 100 yards of field position every game in Special Teams which would help a ton with their philosophy. Belfry also continues to struggle against a team capable of running out of the spread and with mobile QB's capable of scrambling.

All that said.... patience is a virtue. Better days are ahead. Haywood still knows how to get it done or he wouldn't have a title last year. Maybe this rough patch is a good thing, sometimes you need that friction to expose areas to improve and avoid complacency.

[RTruth]

Was waiting for you to show up as you are the most common sense Belfry fan on this page and other other. Well you and Watusi.

As a Pikeville fan watching all this goes down brings some distant memories of our program.

Most in the know, know that athletics as a whole at Belfry isn’t taken seriously. Look at your other programs. Mediocrity and politics abound.

In your football program your unwillingness to not change, but adapt to your talent and times, both offensively and defensively, doomed you this year.

Your weight program and speed and agility program, or lack there of, is the biggest issue with injuries on the field.

Just talking to past and current players and parents, that pace sounds like it’s 1980 all over again.

This I going to sound weird coming from a Pikeville fan but I want to see Belfry be good, I know some those kids well and their parents.

I also want to say when we beat them, that we beat the best team in 3A and that they are the 2nd or 3rd best program in EKY.

You ability to keep those young kids at Belfry after this year will tell the tale.

[EKUAlum05]

Was waiting for you to show up as you are the most common sense Belfry fan on this page and other other. Well you and Watusi.

As a Pikeville fan watching all this goes down brings some distant memories of our program.

Most in the know, know that athletics as a whole at Belfry isn’t taken seriously. Look at your other programs. Mediocrity and politics abound.

In your football program your unwillingness to not change, but adapt to your talent and times, both offensively and defensively, doomed you this year.

Your weight program and speed and agility program, or lack there of, is the biggest issue with injuries on the field.

Just talking to past and current players and parents, that pace sounds like it’s 1980 all over again.

This I going to sound weird coming from a Pikeville fan but I want to see Belfry be good, I know some those kids well and their parents.

I also want to say when we beat them, that we beat the best team in 3A and that they are the 2nd or 3rd best program in EKY.

You ability to keep those young kids at Belfry after this year will tell the tale.

A few things I will bring up.. I am going to be completely transparent and open, may step on a few toes along the way:

1. People forget Belfry is a small, rural, public, county school and not an independent. Much is made about "West Virginia" but it's not like what is waiting on the other side of the river is a major metropolitan area ripe with talent. It is just more rural Appalachia. The imaginary line at the Tug River is just that and nothing more. How many people have ever uttered how superior the State of WV is at athletic talent?  

How many rural Public County schools that have Belfry's enrollment are ultra successful in multiple sports? Shelby Valley has always been strong in basketball... but that's the end of that debate locally.  

You can't compare Belfry to an Independent School like Pikeville or even a school twice their enrollment nearly in Johnson Central. Money is limited. Belfry gets a little more because the community is so engaged by the football program, but by and large most public county schools are hamstrung by a budget and a pool of coaches they have to work within.

2. In terms of the outdated philosophies.. it is a double edged sword and you seem to focus on the negative end. It is a primitive form of football... no doubt. It does put Belfry at a major disadvantage if they are behind and needing to catch up and it makes them entirely easy to game plan for.  In the same breathe, it is a system that can be instilled at a very young age and also allows for interchangeable parts for the core of the positions. This makes it a very logical way to stay competitive even when you are handcuffed with a finite amount of talent. The side of the sword you don't mention is what this offense looks like when it is actually blessed with elite talent? There were not many people questioning that offense running the same plays in 2015 & 2016 when Belfry was mowing down State Champions from other states and classes.

Let's say that 2022 is the worst Belfry team in the past twenty years... which it may very well have been. They still were good enough to beat a team the caliber of Louisville Central and probably were at worst a Top 10-15 team in their class. Pike Central, Magoffin County, East Ridge, and on down the list of similar Public Schools of similar size struggle to be at that level once a decade. That's what that system ensures is a baseline to build off of.


3. I don't think the weight and speed/agility program specifically causes those injuries. Belfry does not have elite facilities or programs and I think that is a well deserved area for criticism.... but Belfry's facilities and programs are still better than probably 3/4 of the State. Weight training only goes so far in injury prevention.

Bout to hurt some feelings here... but I think Belfry needs to take their Athletic Training/Sports Medicine/and Rehab Programs much more serious. I have a ton of respect for the man who has selflessly donated his time for decades, but being an amazing pediatrician is not necessarily a qualification for being a cutting edge Sports Medicine or Athletic Training leader.

I know what a great athletic training/sports medicine focus looks like down here in Georgia. To me the way Belfry treats their athletic training and injury rehab is a hinderance. A great program actually makes this stuff an advantage over your competition. Granted... there aren't a ton of hungry trainers out there who are in driving distance of Pond Creek, but with effort and resources dramatic improvement can be found. A focus on proper hydration, nutrition, and proper injury recovery could really make Belfry stronger.

4. I don't get to see a ton of Belfry football these days. My focus is on my own young kids and my Fridays are devoted to watching my nephew right now. With that said, I see what an elite small school program looks like each week they take the field. Once again, their situation is apples to oranges to Belfry. A Private School, a good/growing population base, massive financial resources at their disposal, and an empowered administration able to get whatever they need for athletics. 

I watch them run an offensive philosophy that is literally the polar opposite of Belfry. 5-wide, zone blocking, rapid paced, no huddle, 90/10 pass to run ratio... they are the cutting edge right now. Belfry breaks you by 4 yard paper cuts and my nephew's team breaks you with 50 yard bombs when you are out of position or tired.

What is funny though is it doesn't make me depreciate what Haywood does. At the end of the day, what wins the game is when talent, execution, individual playmaking, and game plan preparation meet. You can run as many plays and formations as you want, but ultimately it always comes down to those things as to who wins. No denying, how you get to holding the trophy does matter. You can't keep kids if they aren't utilized. With that said, whether you run the ball 50 times or throw it 50 times, if you hoist the trophy it's all the same. 

For all the critiques of Belfry and their system, Haywood has figured out the secret sauce of winning in a situation most teams have struggled to keep consistent success. Build your feeder system, empower your youth coaches, instill community pride, and execution is the key. 



5. Now if you do want to pick a hole I will leave some bait... why is it that every time Belfry loses a big game it seems they turn it over 4+ times? That's not exactly execution is it? Even those dominant teams had some stinkers where they couldn't keep from fumbling.

[Micro-Brew]

Bub if you’re waiting for Belfry’s offensive philosophy to change well then I’ll see you on the flip side. Also I agree with EKU, this time was coming and they were very fortunate to have gotten Dixon for that extra year. But brighter days are coming for Belfry with their Freshman class and 8th grade bunch although I did see Lawrence’s 8th grade bunch was pretty successful this year too. But I’ve said for years if I had a kid that was either a qb or wanted to be a receiver then I would find somewhere else for them to be. That offense is great for winning high school games in Eastern Ky especially when you can use size and physicality to your advantage over a team full of kids that may be more athletic than you. But there’s a fine line between do you want your kids to be “team” players and just block (receivers) or read if tackles are pinching (qbs) and handoff their entire careers? Yeah I’d want my kids to be team players but I’d also want their individual careers to have the best chance to flourish and if they had next level desires then give them the best chance for that as well.
Like I said it could be a conundrum. I wouldn’t judge kids or their parents for doing either. I think some state titles are still in Belfry’s immediate future so be loyal, stay and win with your friends and coaches that you’ve known your whole life. Applause.
Or find a place that best fits your needs as a player and roll with it and hopefully win there as well and maybe you develop the skills that you need to be noticed for the next level. Applause. No one should judge or be upset at either decision. These kids only get 4 years (well I guess a few got 5) so they need to make the most of it. Either way.

[EKUAlum05]

Bub if you’re waiting for Belfry’s offensive philosophy to change well then I’ll see you on the flip side. Also I agree with EKU, this time was coming and they were very fortunate to have gotten Dixon for that extra year. But brighter days are coming for Belfry with their Freshman class and 8th grade bunch although I did see Lawrence’s 8th grade bunch was pretty successful this year too. But I’ve said for years if I had a kid that was either a qb or wanted to be a receiver then I would find somewhere else for them to be. That offense is great for winning high school games in Eastern Ky especially  when you can use size and physicality to your advantage over a team full of kids that may be more athletic than you. But there’s a fine line between do you want your kids to be “team” players and just block (receivers) or read if tackles are pinching (qbs) and handoff their entire careers? Yeah I’d want my kids to be team players but I’d also want their individual careers to have the best chance to flourish and if they had next level desires then give them the best chance for that as well.
Like I said it could be a conundrum. I wouldn’t judge kids or their parents for doing either. I think some state titles are still in Belfry’s immediate future so be loyal, stay and win with your friends and coaches that you’ve known your whole life. Applause.
Or find a place that best fits your needs as a player and roll with it and hopefully win there as well and maybe you develop the skills that you need to be noticed for the next level. Applause. No one should judge or be upset at either decision. These kids only get 4 years (well I guess a few got 5) so they need to make the most of it. Either way.

If my son was a natural WR and had the ability to get a free education playing football, I am not sure Belfry would be where he would flourish at. 

There was a recent WR from Pikeville with strong Belfry ties who is now playing at the collegiate level.   I 100% think that the correct decision for his future was playing at Pikeville.

QB is tough. Most D-1 QB's look like D-1 QB's. Tall, big arm, etc... Let's use Isaac McNamee as an example. Belfry is not the fit for a traditional QB at all. With that said, if you are a more read option or dual threat type of QB or want to get exposure to play at the next level as a "jack of all trades" it isn't necessarily a bad decision. Sani Warren comes to mind. Sani probably wasn't going higher than NAIA due to his measurables. He had a super successful career at Belfry and even when he became a true passer in college I think the decision making and ball handling skills he mastered at Belfry actually aided him.

[jetpilot]

Good stuff here.

[RTruth]

I’ll counter some of your arguments with this. I don’t their problems lay with the team Dr, the want to go 5 wide, or the “look at this style with elite talent”.

I think their problems lay with the inability to change, at all. Austin Dotson comes to mind. Kid was taught absolutely nothing - Stoops even saying best run blocker one of worst pass blockers, there is tons of money and help waiting, it’s been turned away, and finally. Anyone can win with elite talent.

I do agree about ups and downs. That style allows you to be level.

I think Pikeville is the perfect example of success in the mountains. Coach Mac and his assistants adapts their style of play to their talent. We are the premiere program in Eastern Kentucky. We are the premiere athletics program in Eastern Kentucky. We made tough decisions on coaches and they were unpopular at the time. They worked out. Hardly any are Pikeville people.

Good luck to the Pirates in the rest of their sports and the next few years.

[jetpilot]

^^Top 2 and others are Pikeville people.

[i82much]

Nice win for the Tomcats! Good luck in the next round!

[pirateforlife]

I’ll counter some of your arguments with this. I don’t their problems lay with the team Dr, the want to go 5 wide, or the “look at this style with elite talent”.

I think their problems lay with the inability to change, at all. Austin Dotson comes to mind. Kid was taught absolutely nothing - Stoops even saying best run blocker one of worst pass blockers, there is tons of money and help waiting, it’s been turned away, and finally. Anyone can win with elite talent.

I do agree about ups and downs. That style allows you to be level.

I think Pikeville is the perfect example of success in the mountains. Coach Mac and his assistants adapts their style of play to their talent. We are the premiere program in Eastern Kentucky. We are the premiere athletics program in Eastern Kentucky. We made tough decisions on coaches and they were unpopular at the time. They worked out. Hardly any are Pikeville people.

Good luck to the Pirates in the rest of their sports and the next few years.

To say he was taught nothing is silly and just dumb. He did earn a scholarship offer to UK to play in the SEC. Yes a lot of that was god gifted ability but he had to work hard and Belfry helped him a lot along the way. Johnson Central runs a similar style of offense with their ground and pound style and had a lineman who is now at UK.

[Truewords]

I’ll counter some of your arguments with this. I don’t their problems lay with the team Dr, the want to go 5 wide, or the “look at this style with elite talent”.

I think their problems lay with the inability to change, at all. Austin Dotson comes to mind. Kid was taught absolutely nothing - Stoops even saying best run blocker one of worst pass blockers, there is tons of money and help waiting, it’s been turned away, and finally. Anyone can win with elite talent.

I do agree about ups and downs. That style allows you to be level.

I think Pikeville is the perfect example of success in the mountains. Coach Mac and his assistants adapts their style of play to their talent. We are the premiere program in Eastern Kentucky. We are the premiere athletics program in Eastern Kentucky. We made tough decisions on coaches and they were unpopular at the time. They worked out. Hardly any are Pikeville people.

Good luck to the Pirates in the rest of their sports and the next few years.

To say he was taught nothing is silly and just dumb. He did earn a scholarship offer to UK to play in the SEC. Yes a lot of that was god gifted ability but he had to work hard and Belfry helped him a lot along the way. Johnson Central runs a similar style of offense with their ground and pound style and had a lineman who is now at UK.

Money and help waiting?  You obviously have insight most don’t. Belfry has some good young players but no Issac Dixon or Austin Dotson in waiting. The future is yet to be determined all this young talent has a long way to go and much improvement needed. As far as a style change you will need to bring in some new blood in the coaching staff. This staff has their way and does not alter it much. Pass blocking is not stressed because of very little passing takes place. With fullback and both halfbacks returning I don’t see the passing game growing much more.