[Orange Blaze]

My opinion probably isn't popular & that's fine, but I think if the KHSAA just fixed the classification system there would be more parity & therefore the playoffs would be fine as is.

I think that the population of the county that the school is located needs to be factored into their classification rather than just the enrollment of the school.  I say the enrollment should still be the main classification criteria but the population of the county that the school is located in should be factored in as well as how many schools are in that county.

Its kind of just common sense, if your school is located right in the middle of a city of 100,000+ people you are going to have access to more talent than a small, rural county school in which there isn't even 10,000 people within a 30+ minute drive.  But that's just my opinion and what do I know?!

Schools like Raceland, Pikeville, Hazard, and Johnson Central are no where near being urban and they seem so do just fine.

I don't know about Raceland but Hazard, JC and Pikeville all have a Walmart and at least 1 McDonalds that makes them urban in my books.

Those 3 programs and I'm assuming Raceland as well pour significant amounts of money into their programs which attracts others from neighboring areas. A schools could be from a town with 1000 people but if they have a good coach, nice facilities and uniforms and put fans in the stands on Friday night they are going to be just fine because the good players will find them. Look no further than Alabama in college they aren't from an urban area in fact Tuscaloosa outside the university is small as is Athens, Ga, etc. But they are competing on this highest levels because they are attracting the top athletes.

I agree but my point was more about schools being located in large population centers such as the Lexington area, Louisville, Bowling Green, and NKY.  I only mentioned those 4 schools because they are located in areas that are by most standards considered to be rural areas that don’t have a lot of cash flow coming in.  Pikeville would be the exception but Pike County as a whole is far from being wealthy.  

As far as pulling talent goes, I agree that the schools that pump more money into their programs will have an edge over the others that don’t.  However, my point was there are several programs across the state that are not in the major metropolitan areas that are successful year in and year out.

[Hoot Gibson]

If you want to play more games, go back to the set up in the late 80's early 90's.  11 game regular season, top 2 teams from each district make the playoffs.  At least that way you avoid all the 1st round blowouts and everyone still gets that extra game in the regular season.

I see the logic in that approach. I am still in favor of having every team eligible for the playoffs but your suggestion makes much more sense than the others who recommend changes that would reduce the amount of football played.

[Orange Blaze]

If you want to play more games, go back to the set up in the late 80's early 90's.  11 game regular season, top 2 teams from each district make the playoffs.  At least that way you avoid all the 1st round blowouts and everyone still gets that extra game in the regular season.

I see the logic in that approach. I am still in favor of having every team eligible for the playoffs but your suggestion makes much more sense than the others who recommend changes that would reduce the amount of football played.

In this set up you could call the last 2 games of the season post season games.  It would be no different than the district tournament games in basketball, baseball/softball, soccer, and volleyball.

---

I’ve also never understood the Kentucky classification system. It really makes no sense why most sports are not classified while only a few such as football, XC, and track are. And then in the sports that are classified you have 6 in football and 3 in the others.

[#GoCougs]

If you want to play more games, go back to the set up in the late 80's early 90's.  11 game regular season, top 2 teams from each district make the playoffs.  At least that way you avoid all the 1st round blowouts and everyone still gets that extra game in the regular season.

I see the logic in that approach. I am still in favor of having every team eligible for the playoffs but your suggestion makes much more sense than the others who recommend changes that would reduce the amount of football played.

In this set up you could call the last 2 games of the season post season games.  It would be no different than the district tournament games in basketball, baseball/softball, soccer, and volleyball.

It could be fun to do maybe post-season games that aren't part of the playoffs. Maybe do cross-district but say District 1 #5 plays District 2 #5. Nothing really at stake but you get the extra game & get a chance to play a team that you normally wouldn't. Or maybe could even do at a neutral site centrally located where maybe the highest RPI team not in the playoffs from the west meets the highest RPI team not in the playoffs from the east and so on. Idk what kind of interest there would be in doing that or if it would even be logistically feasible but it sounds like something I'd have fun with if I was a player on one of those teams that missed out on the playoffs.

[Old School Hound]

How bout we ask the kids if they want any of their games taken away ??

How about if we poll LC's mom & pops on going to Pikeville for their kids to get bruised & battered?  Why are we rewarding bad resumes just so they can have an even worse resume?

[Iam4thecats]

5 classes
no districts-independent scheduling
top 16 teams in each class get invited, but they don't get split east-west till after the 16 are chosen.
trade rpi for MaxPreps(calpreps) 
invitation and seed by MaxPreps, east-west till the semis. (i'm open to looking at neutral semifinal sites.)
classify every year based on sophomore and junior boys enrollment, there is not really a time crunch because there aren't any districts.

[Jarons]

How bout we ask the kids if they want any of their games taken away ??

How about if we poll LC's mom & pops on going to Pikeville for their kids to get bruised & battered?  Why are we rewarding bad resumes just so they can have an even worse resume?

Not a LC parent. I am a parent of a former high school athlete. I would give anything to see him play one more game, even if it is in a game that is expected to be a blowout.

[Westside]

I would have 4 classes and only the top 2 teams from each district would qualify for the playoffs.

[Orange Blaze]

How bout we ask the kids if they want any of their games taken away ??

How about if we poll LC's mom & pops on going to Pikeville for their kids to get bruised & battered?  Why are we rewarding bad resumes just so they can have an even worse resume?

Not a LC parent. I am a parent of a former high school athlete. I would give anything to see him play one more game, even if it is in a game that is expected to be a blowout.

As a former player I agree.  As I said in an earlier post, I played in the old 4 class system and we only won 1 playoff game in my high school career.  This was way before Raceland was how we know them now and the Rams usually always lost in the playoffs.  This was when we went against the NKY schools when their district was loaded and in some years they swept our whole district in the first round.  

My sophomore season we barely made the playoffs after a team we had beaten won against a team we lost to.  Our reward for that was a trip to play NCC and they would eventually be the state runner up after losing to Danville by 1 point.  That game would have been on par with our team this year playing Betsy Layne.  We were outmatched and got our butts kicked.  But guess what? No one came out injured, the seniors got one last game, and I have a story 20 years later to talk about the first time I visited the Cincinnati area.  Sometimes it’s just more about the game being played and the memories you made matter more.

.

[Danville Blue Devil]

Back to four classes…. Six is dividing the competition way too thin with as few teams as we have in KY. Playoffs nowhere near as exciting as they used to be.

[Hound05]

I agree with hoot in that less football isn’t going to make any player better. But it’s hard
To argue that one more game would make them any better. The problem with Ky football isn’t games played. It’s support and the area they located in. I’ve had friends tell that lived in big counties that they had the athletes to make a good football team but they lived a 25 minute drive one way to the practice field and just couldn’t arrange to make it every day. Or their parents didn’t care. Or the school just don’t care about football. You say it all the time at the next level Hill Kentucky didn’t give a crap about football until the last little bit. Playing one more game on their schedule wouldn’t change a thing. They’ve got to find a way to attract better coaches. Personally I don’t think coaches should have to teach they don’t in the private schools. How many more coaches would be available then. Plus it’s
The “everyone gets a trophy” mentality. When I was a kid if you didn’t win you didn’t get a trophy. It’s no different here if you want to go to the postseason earn it it’s a privilege not a right. A kid that shows up every day or a teen that bust their butt every day puts an extra hours has the same opportunity as a team or players that just showed up whenever they wanted to? I think the only reason the KHSAA Even thought to add everybody to the playoff structure was money but there is no way that a zero win team traveling to so where and playing is profitable for anyone.

[Hoot Gibson]

It's more than one game at stake. It's a game plus a week of practices over the course of a high school player's career who finds himself living in a district of a weak football program.

I don't get why anybody thinks that allowing all teams into the playoffs is part of an "everybody gets a trophy" mentality. How many Kentucky high school basketball players has anybody ever heard boasting about making the playoffs? Playoffs are all about determining champions. The regular season, at the high school level should be all about competition, building strong teams, and developing the skills of the young men who decide to be part of a team. Nobody is going to be feeling like they won a prize if their season ends in a loss, particularly a first round loss.

People should stop thinking about high school football like they do about teams of adults playing big time college football or in the NFL. High school football is not about those of us who enjoy watching the games, it is all about the players of the game. The playoffs are like a final exam to grade teams on the progress that they have made during the season and from season to season.

I was on a very good high school baseball team that never made it to the regional tournament. We made the playoffs every season, just like every other baseball team in the state, but even my dumbest teammates did not celebrate playing in the same tournament as every other player in the state. The "everybody gets a trophy" objection to including every team in the football playoffs is about the most ridiculous argument that I have ever read and every time this subject comes up, I read multiple people making the same silly argument. It really makes absolutely no sense. Think about it. Now think harder.

[The_Cats_Meow]

Back to 4 classes!

Lets make teams win some games to make the playoffs.

If it stays the same lets change the playoff format to 16 teams and add an extra regular season game instead of these first round disasters- Let teams schedule another high profile game to get their RPI up!!!

[Shogun]

I would have 4 classes and only the top 2 teams from each district would qualify for the playoffs.

Disagree here, @Westside. I'm all for 4 classes but back when it was 4 classes and top 4 teams made it you would have 4s beating 1s more often and even the occasional 3 or 4 go on a playoff run. I'm fine with the 5 week playoffs, but too many classes at the moment.

[16thregioner]

As a former player I agree.  As I said in an earlier post, I played in the old 4 class system and we only won 1 playoff game in my high school career.  This was way before Raceland was how we know them now and the Rams usually always lost in the playoffs.  This was when we went against the NKY schools when their district was loaded and in some years they swept our whole district in the first round.  

My sophomore season we barely made the playoffs after a team we had beaten won against a team we lost to.  Our reward for that was a trip to play NCC and they would eventually be the state runner up after losing to Danville by 1 point.  That game would have been on par with our team this year playing Betsy Layne.  We were outmatched and got our butts kicked.  But guess what? No one came out injured, the seniors got one last game, and I have a story 20 years later to talk about the first time I visited the Cincinnati area.  Sometimes it’s just more about the game being played and the memories you made matter more.

Raceland still always loses in the playoffs.  Only 6 teams in the state go home champions each year.  And MANY of those 6 teams are watered down versions of "champion" teams.  Just because Raceland has 3 rounds of playoff cupcakes to go through now doesn't mean they're significantly better as a program than your old Ram teams used to be. 

As for our local teams, the past couple state champion teams, Russell in 2005 and Ashland in 2020, benefited from only having to get through a couple of Belfry's historically weaker teams to get there.  Look at Russell's terrible 2A district that year.  Credit to both that they did it, but there have been better Russell and Ashland teams that didn't win a state title.  As there have been better Raceland teams through the years.  The fact that I can actually see a path for this year's 2-8 Russell team or 6-4 Ashland team to be in the state semis this season tells me something is wrong.

As all of us on here realized, 1A could have skipped the entire season and had their state title game at the start of the season.  There was never any doubt it was going to be Raceland and Pikeville in the title game.  A couple of the other classes have similar situations.  I think less classes and 2 teams per district making the playoffs is the way to go.  As you said, the memories are what matter in the end.  I suppose the counterargument would be that the banners still hang at Henry R. Evans and Putnam Stadiums so no one will realize years from now that those state titles weren't as difficult to achieve as they might seem.

[RAMDAD50]

How bout we ask the kids if they want any of their games taken away ??

How about if we poll LC's mom & pops on going to Pikeville for their kids to get bruised & battered?  Why are we rewarding bad resumes just so they can have an even worse resume?

I don’t think you ever played this game

[Orange Blaze]

As a former player I agree.  As I said in an earlier post, I played in the old 4 class system and we only won 1 playoff game in my high school career.  This was way before Raceland was how we know them now and the Rams usually always lost in the playoffs.  This was when we went against the NKY schools when their district was loaded and in some years they swept our whole district in the first round.  

My sophomore season we barely made the playoffs after a team we had beaten won against a team we lost to.  Our reward for that was a trip to play NCC and they would eventually be the state runner up after losing to Danville by 1 point.  That game would have been on par with our team this year playing Betsy Layne.  We were outmatched and got our butts kicked.  But guess what? No one came out injured, the seniors got one last game, and I have a story 20 years later to talk about the first time I visited the Cincinnati area.  Sometimes it’s just more about the game being played and the memories you made matter more.

Raceland still always loses in the playoffs.  Only 6 teams in the state go home champions each year.  And MANY of those 6 teams are watered down versions of "champion" teams.  Just because Raceland has 3 rounds of playoff cupcakes to go through now doesn't mean they're significantly better as a program than your old Ram teams used to be. 

As for our local teams, the past couple state champion teams, Russell in 2005 and Ashland in 2020, benefited from only having to get through a couple of Belfry's historically weaker teams to get there.  Look at Russell's terrible 2A district that year.  Credit to both that they did it, but there have been better Russell and Ashland teams that didn't win a state title.  As there have been better Raceland teams through the years.  The fact that I can actually see a path for this year's 2-8 Russell team or 6-4 Ashland team to be in the state semis this season tells me something is wrong.

As all of us on here realized, 1A could have skipped the entire season and had their state title game at the start of the season.  There was never any doubt it was going to be Raceland and Pikeville in the title game.  A couple of the other classes have similar situations.  I think less classes and 2 teams per district making the playoffs is the way to go.  As you said, the memories are what matter in the end.  I suppose the counterargument would be that the banners still hang at Henry R. Evans and Putnam Stadiums so no one will realize years from now that those state titles weren't as difficult to achieve as they might seem.

When I said Raceland always lost in the playoffs I meant to say Raceland didn’t even win 1 playoff game most seasons in the old system.

---

As a former player I agree.  As I said in an earlier post, I played in the old 4 class system and we only won 1 playoff game in my high school career.  This was way before Raceland was how we know them now and the Rams usually always lost in the playoffs.  This was when we went against the NKY schools when their district was loaded and in some years they swept our whole district in the first round.  

My sophomore season we barely made the playoffs after a team we had beaten won against a team we lost to.  Our reward for that was a trip to play NCC and they would eventually be the state runner up after losing to Danville by 1 point.  That game would have been on par with our team this year playing Betsy Layne.  We were outmatched and got our butts kicked.  But guess what? No one came out injured, the seniors got one last game, and I have a story 20 years later to talk about the first time I visited the Cincinnati area.  Sometimes it’s just more about the game being played and the memories you made matter more.

Raceland still always loses in the playoffs.  Only 6 teams in the state go home champions each year.  And MANY of those 6 teams are watered down versions of "champion" teams.  Just because Raceland has 3 rounds of playoff cupcakes to go through now doesn't mean they're significantly better as a program than your old Ram teams used to be. 

As for our local teams, the past couple state champion teams, Russell in 2005 and Ashland in 2020, benefited from only having to get through a couple of Belfry's historically weaker teams to get there.  Look at Russell's terrible 2A district that year.  Credit to both that they did it, but there have been better Russell and Ashland teams that didn't win a state title.  As there have been better Raceland teams through the years.  The fact that I can actually see a path for this year's 2-8 Russell team or 6-4 Ashland team to be in the state semis this season tells me something is wrong.

As all of us on here realized, 1A could have skipped the entire season and had their state title game at the start of the season.  There was never any doubt it was going to be Raceland and Pikeville in the title game.  A couple of the other classes have similar situations.  I think less classes and 2 teams per district making the playoffs is the way to go.  As you said, the memories are what matter in the end.  I suppose the counterargument would be that the banners still hang at Henry R. Evans and Putnam Stadiums so no one will realize years from now that those state titles weren't as difficult to achieve as they might seem.

When I said Raceland always lost in the playoffs I meant to say Raceland didn’t even win 1 playoff game most seasons in the old system.  Also I agree with what you said about the talent not being better.  This may ruffle some Ram feathers but I firmly believe our playoff record would be similar to what it was in 4 classes if the teams that had made recent deep playoff runs had to run the NKY gauntlet that teams of Rams past went through.  Case in point, we had a team in 2002 that was made up of athletes that won a state title in track and field the following spring and had Aaron Pettrey who was arguably the best QB in Raceland history that got smacked by NCC in the 2nd round.  It was just a different football world.

[Old School Hound]

How bout we ask the kids if they want any of their games taken away ??

How about if we poll LC's mom & pops on going to Pikeville for their kids to get bruised & battered?  Why are we rewarding bad resumes just so they can have an even worse resume?

I don’t think you ever played this game

So you are in favor of rewarding bad work? Going 2-8 is bad work. Shouldn't be rewarded with the prestige of a playoff spot.  Are you rewarded if you do your job poorly?

Btw, the kids all get ten games to prove if they deserve another game. Winning two of ten does not deserve the reward of an 11th game, imo.

[Hound05]

Everyone that says it should be about the kids. Let them decide. Ask a kid that’s won 4
Games in 4 years if he wants to travel over
An hour and get killed? If I were a kid in HS. My vote would be no. A month practice and 4 games over 4 years isn’t going to equate to a kid getting any noticeably better. It’s not gonna make the difference in a scholarship. The only thing that i might would have wanted to play another game was if I was real close to breaking a record. But that doesn’t have very often at all. So let the kids decide and vote. No side on this can be correct if “it’s about the kids”. How do any of us know what’s better for another young adult. After a young age I never considered sports being a “participation award”. You earn what you get. If I were still a kid my thoughts wouldn’t change. Having everyone go to the playoffs is like everyone getting equal playing time.

[Real Badman]

11 regular season games, top two seeds make playoffs.

[Old School Hound]

Everyone that says it should be about the kids. Let them decide. Ask a kid that’s won 4
Games in 4 years if he wants to travel over
An hour and get killed? If I were a kid in HS. My vote would be no. A month practice and 4 games over 4 years isn’t going to equate to a kid getting any noticeably better. It’s not gonna make the difference in a scholarship. The only thing that i might would have wanted to play another game was if I was real close to breaking a record. But that doesn’t have very often at all. So let the kids decide and vote. No side on this can be correct if “it’s about the kids”. How do any of us know what’s better for another young adult. After a young age I never considered sports being a “participation award”. You earn what you get. If I were still a kid my thoughts wouldn’t change. Having everyone go to the playoffs is like everyone getting equal playing time.

Yeah, I just don't see anything worthwhile about Lynn Camp travelling over Pikeville to be behind 35-0 after 8 minutes.  No one really benefits from a game like that. I'm okay with adding another game to the regular season  but these Pikeville-Lynn Camp ,  Connor -Frederick Douglass games have no redeeming value for anyone involved.

[Nygfan106wins]

Thing about these games that I don’t like. Is the team that will win. Takes a chance at getting someone injured that is important to them win a championship

[Hound05]

Everyone that says it should be about the kids. Let them decide. Ask a kid that’s won 4
Games in 4 years if he wants to travel over
An hour and get killed? If I were a kid in HS. My vote would be no. A month practice and 4 games over 4 years isn’t going to equate to a kid getting any noticeably better. It’s not gonna make the difference in a scholarship. The only thing that i might would have wanted to play another game was if I was real close to breaking a record. But that doesn’t have very often at all. So let the kids decide and vote. No side on this can be correct if “it’s about the kids”. How do any of us know what’s better for another young adult. After a young age I never considered sports being a “participation award”. You earn what you get. If I were still a kid my thoughts wouldn’t change. Having everyone go to the playoffs is like everyone getting equal playing time.

Yeah, I just don't see anything worthwhile about Lynn Camp travelling over Pikeville to be behind 35-0 after 8 minutes.  No one really benefits from a game like that. I'm okay with adding another game to the regular season  but these Pikeville-Lynn Camp ,  Connor -Frederick Douglass games have no redeeming value for anyone involved.

I just can’t possibly see any utilities from everyone making the playoffs. Like I said one game a year, not gonna benefit. You wouldn’t benefit from working out 1 week a year. Plus if you take out a playoff game, that’s less toll it takes from these kids. There’s a reason why other sports allow everyone to make it, it doesn’t take as much out of the kids. I don’t even think Ky middle school lets everyone in their state tournament do they? Or they could have switched it too. Not sure. But like you said, ask the kids from Lynn camp and see if they want to go to pikeville. They will go because of the pride they have. But if it was a team option, nahhh. Heck look at
the teams that’s canceled in the past. It’s always a low seed. Or even this year.  I’m sure they have enough players to play, but why? Their starters are suspended and even with them they didn’t hardly win.

[64SUR]

Everyone should play in the pick’em contest this week………see who can pick 11 winners.Lol!!

[Hoot Gibson]

Everyone should play in the pick’em contest this week………see who can pick 11 winners.Lol!!

It should be a piece of cake for all of those folks who don't think that 3 and 4 seeds belong in the playoffs, right?

[Hound05]

Before this thread. I’ve never heard anything from people trying to promote a 5th place district team playing in the post season.

Does anyone know how Ohio does their computer rating?

Hoot you mentioned Indianas system. How do they do it?

[Rebel55]

I would reward the 3rd and 4th seed in first round home field advantage.  Ok I said it!!!

[Hoot Gibson]

Before this thread. I’ve never heard anything from people trying to promote a 5th place district team playing in the post season.

Does anyone know how Ohio does their computer rating?

Hoot you mentioned Indianas system. How do they do it?

I'm not sure of the details of Indiana's system beyond the fact that every team participates in the playoffs. I also believe that they have a rule that if a team below 6A wins two consecutive state titles, then they are reclassified to the next higher class for a couple of seasons, regardless of enrollment.

That rule was applied to Cathedral, although Cathedral may have a 6A enrollment now. Cathedral has always scheduled some of the strongest 6A teams in Indiana, Kentucky, and the best teams in Ohio as well. They are a perfect example of a team that schedules strictly to improve their team in the regular season to prepare for the playoffs. They won at least one state title after starting either 0-4 or 0-5. Teams should be rewarded by their own performance in the playoffs, not rewarded with a playoff appearance based on a schedule designed to minimize regular season losses.

[Hound05]

I would to know how Ohio does their “computer ratings” they go by. I’m sure it’s a form of RPI. I’m still not sure why some don’t like our RPI? Could it be a little better? Yes. But it’s the start to an avenue they can broaden. The past few years the title game has been the top 2 or 3 teams playing. What else could you ask for.

[Hoot Gibson]

I would to know how Ohio does their “computer ratings” they go by. I’m sure it’s a form of RPI. I’m still not sure why some don’t like our RPI? Could it be a little better? Yes. But it’s the start to an avenue they can broaden. The past few years the title game has been the top 2 or 3 teams playing. What else could you ask for.

The system discourages teams from playing tough schedules and actually penalizes them for doing so. No offense, but Corbin's schedule has been pretty weak, yet they are rewarded with the top 4A seed. Johnson Central's schedule has been even weaker but they have always had a tough time scheduling strong competition for non-district play. The strongest teams within a reasonable drive for JC are located in Ohio and West Virginia. They were playing a couple of teams from Charleston, Capital and South Charleston, but those teams have been way down the past few seasons. The big schools in Huntington play a similar style as JC, so JC has sought out stronger passing teams to better prepare for the playoffs.

RPI considerations should not drive scheduling, IMO, but look at the schedules that Madison Central and George Rogers Clark have played. Neither team is very good this season, but they have pretty good records because they have avoided playing good 5A and 6A teams during the regular season. Teams in Kentucky that are weaker than the strong teams in southern Ohio but accumulate a lot of wins against weak opponents are sometimes referred to as "Harbin cows" because Buckeye teams can rack up Harbin points by playing them. (Harbin being the name of the Ohio equivalent of the RPI.)

It is probably going to be rare for Johnson Central to get a third round home playoff win because of their out of state games. Trinity is a much better example. They have the most quality wins of any Kentucky team by far and will be on the road in the second round. I am sure that Trinity will not be watering down their schedule to earn a better RPI and I hope that JC will not either. Hopefully, JC will be able to put together a stronger schedule next season because they will return a lot of talent.

The RPI system sucks.