[Hoot Gibson]

If the enrollment holds true consistently, JC has on avg more than 230 boys than belfry. So it shouldn’t have never been close. Both were well coached.  The only variable in this that was different is class size. I agree that it might help some. But not as much as one might think. JC is one of the biggest in class 4A. Averaging well over 100 more boys than Corbin, boyle, Lex cath. Pikeville avg 185
Boys. But they are still competing, regularly with bigger schools. Mayfield, beechwood, CAL, all have small numbers. But they compete with larger schools.

I think the geography plays more into it than numbers. Why can’t Harlan, or Whitley, or another county school compete with say a
Boyle or Corbin or beechwood? Way more enrollment, and a coach wouldn’t matter much. County schools should have a total advantage over independent or city schools if the number game were true. But they don’t. I’m not going to get in a Social-economics debate. But there is correlation there. Why is it a 1A school like Pikeville or 2A beechwood have such an advantage over a pineville or a Lynn camp? Or even a small city school over a large county school? Now there’s anomalies sure, I’ve seen some of the poorest kids that some wouldn’t believe beat the heck out of a “higher income” school like catholic. But most of the time, it’s where your school is located, not how big it is.

All else being equal, a team from a school with a much larger enrollment will always have an advantage over a team from a smaller school. Of course, that advantage is not always the determining factor but having a larger enrollment is always an advantage. Schools with larger enrollments should strive to compete at a high level with the best schools in their own class. If you want to win a 4A title, then you should not be playing the #5 team in 1A on an ongoing basis.

[Old School Hound]

"Size matters. " --- Hoot Gibson, Class Snob

LOL

[Hoot Gibson]

"Size matters.  "  ---      Hoot  Gibson, Class Snob 

LOL

If I were a class snob, then I would ditch JC and jump on the Trinity bandwagon. Trinity has the best program in the state by a wide margin. If I had a son who was a potential D1 prospect, Trinity would be at the top of my list if football was our top priority.

[Hound05]

If the enrollment holds true consistently, JC has on avg more than 230 boys than belfry. So it shouldn’t have never been close. Both were well coached.  The only variable in this that was different is class size. I agree that it might help some. But not as much as one might think. JC is one of the biggest in class 4A. Averaging well over 100 more boys than Corbin, boyle, Lex cath. Pikeville avg 185
Boys. But they are still competing, regularly with bigger schools. Mayfield, beechwood, CAL, all have small numbers. But they compete with larger schools.

I think the geography plays more into it than numbers. Why can’t Harlan, or Whitley, or another county school compete with say a
Boyle or Corbin or beechwood? Way more enrollment, and a coach wouldn’t matter much. County schools should have a total advantage over independent or city schools if the number game were true. But they don’t. I’m not going to get in a Social-economics debate. But there is correlation there. Why is it a 1A school like Pikeville or 2A beechwood have such an advantage over a pineville or a Lynn camp? Or even a small city school over a large county school? Now there’s anomalies sure, I’ve seen some of the poorest kids that some wouldn’t believe beat the heck out of a “higher income” school like catholic. But most of the time, it’s where your school is located, not how big it is.

All else being equal, a team from a school with a much larger enrollment will always have an advantage over a team from a smaller school. Of course, that advantage is not always the determining factor but having a larger enrollment is always an advantage. Schools with larger enrollments should strive to compete at a high level with the best schools in their own class. If you want to win a 4A title, then you should not be playing the #5 team in 1A on an ongoing basis.

If all else was equal then the size advantage wouldn’t matter. We’ve already seen smaller schools continually beat larger schools. There are several great coaches at large schools that are continuously losing to smaller schools. Heck Justin haddix was a PCC and they lost to smaller schools even with a better coach. Bullet East beat 6A male who probably has a better coach, and lost to smaller spencer county. 

I see your train of thought, bigger Numbers give you a better talent to chose from. I use to think that. I don’t anymore. In certain cases maybe. But the phrase “will always have an advantage” doesn’t add up. Way to many similar teams and coaches with different size schools are losing to smaller schools. 

do you think coach Peck, haddix, heck even Beatty could go to south laurel or McCreary county and do the same thing with bigger or same size schools. No way. It’s the area in which you live. Some pockets produce more talent than others. And it changes. Corbin produces more talent own than it did when I was in school. You add another 100 kids to the mix it wouldn’t have changed much. Now team size is different as far as how many people play. It gives you depth, but again, you have PCC who had haddix, and they were losing to somerset’s, who had a worse coach I’d say, but a better team with fewer kids that Perry had to pull from. Smaller Louisville schools are beating the same size or bigger school with more numbers. Location, location, location,
like a realtor always says hah But that’s just my opinion on it.

[Hoot Gibson]

If the enrollment holds true consistently, JC has on avg more than 230 boys than belfry. So it shouldn’t have never been close. Both were well coached.  The only variable in this that was different is class size. I agree that it might help some. But not as much as one might think. JC is one of the biggest in class 4A. Averaging well over 100 more boys than Corbin, boyle, Lex cath. Pikeville avg 185
Boys. But they are still competing, regularly with bigger schools. Mayfield, beechwood, CAL, all have small numbers. But they compete with larger schools.

I think the geography plays more into it than numbers. Why can’t Harlan, or Whitley, or another county school compete with say a
Boyle or Corbin or beechwood? Way more enrollment, and a coach wouldn’t matter much. County schools should have a total advantage over independent or city schools if the number game were true. But they don’t. I’m not going to get in a Social-economics debate. But there is correlation there. Why is it a 1A school like Pikeville or 2A beechwood have such an advantage over a pineville or a Lynn camp? Or even a small city school over a large county school? Now there’s anomalies sure, I’ve seen some of the poorest kids that some wouldn’t believe beat the heck out of a “higher income” school like catholic. But most of the time, it’s where your school is located, not how big it is.

All else being equal, a team from a school with a much larger enrollment will always have an advantage over a team from a smaller school. Of course, that advantage is not always the determining factor but having a larger enrollment is always an advantage. Schools with larger enrollments should strive to compete at a high level with the best schools in their own class. If you want to win a 4A title, then you should not be playing the #5 team in 1A on an ongoing basis.

If all else was equal then the size advantage wouldn’t matter. We’ve already seen smaller schools continually beat larger schools. There are several great coaches at large schools that are continuously losing to smaller schools. Heck Justin haddix was a PCC and they lost to smaller schools even with a better coach. Bullet East beat 6A male who probably has a better coach, and lost to smaller spencer county. 

I see your train of thought, bigger Numbers give you a better talent to chose from. I use to think that. I don’t anymore. In certain cases maybe. But the phrase “will always have an advantage” doesn’t add up. Way to many similar teams and coaches with different size schools are losing to smaller schools. 

do you think coach Peck, haddix, heck even Beatty could go to south laurel or McCreary county and do the same thing with bigger or same size schools. No way. It’s the area in which you live. Some pockets produce more talent than others. And it changes. Corbin produces more talent own than it did when I was in school. You add another 100 kids to the mix it wouldn’t have changed much. Now team size is different as far as how many people play. It gives you depth, but again, you have PCC who had haddix, and they were losing to somerset’s, who had a worse coach I’d say, but a better team with fewer kids that Perry had to pull from. Smaller Louisville schools are beating the same size or bigger school with more numbers. Location, location, location,
like a realtor always says hah But that’s just my opinion on it.

If all else is equal, then size is all that matters. Same coaching staff, same administration support, same equipment, same schedule...then the team with the deepest available pool of talent would be the better team. Size is always an advantage, but other factors often overcome that advantage.

Haddix was not at Perry County Central long enough to build a good program. A great head coach cannot conjure up a great program in a couple of seasons. It takes time to put together the right staff and teach the offense and defense to elementary and middle school coaches and players.

I absolutely believe that a great coach with the commitment of the administration could go to any large school in Kentucky and build a great program. If an administration believes that hiring a good head coach is enough to field consistently good teams, then the coach will fail, regardless of how good he is.

Location is more important for small schools that recruit than it is for legitimately good programs. Great programs are built, they do not simply pop up from nothing.

[Hound05]

Again, do you think coach Beatty could come to Mccreary county and do the same thing? What about Marshall county? Several same size schools that even if he was there, wouldn’t improve a whole lot.

And haddix had Corbin in the semis in two years. Would have been one year if not for a shoe string catch thay bounced off another shoe haha. But he done that in two years. With a smaller school with less numbers to pull from. But he couldn’t do the exact same thing at PCC in the same exact time with bigger numbers? He would have more advantage at PCC if that was true. So many bigger schools than boyle, Corbin, Jc, etc that any of those coaches can go to and not succeed. Corbin and boyle produce more talent than entire county schools. Now coaching has some to do with it, but not as much as the god gifted talent they are born with. So why doesn’t a big county with all those kids have more?

[Hound05]

Dudley Hilton, Larry French, Jim matney, mojo hollowell, Jim McKee, Hilliard Howard, Justin haddix, the list goes on, we’re at same size or larger schools, but ended up doing very well at smaller schools or
Same size in a different area. Location, location

[Hoot Gibson]

Again, do you think coach Beatty could come to Mccreary county and do the same thing? What about Marshall county? Several same size schools that even if he was there, wouldn’t improve a whole lot.

And haddix had Corbin in the semis in two years. Would have been one year if not for a shoe string catch thay bounced off another shoe haha. But he done that in two years. With a smaller school with less numbers to pull from. But he couldn’t do the exact same thing at PCC in the same exact time with bigger numbers? He would have more advantage at PCC if that was true. So many bigger schools than boyle, Corbin, Jc, etc that any of those coaches can go to and not succeed. Corbin and boyle produce more talent than entire county schools. Now coaching has some to do with it, but not as much as the god gifted talent they are born with. So why doesn’t a big county with all those kids have more?

I already answered the question. A head coach has to have the full support of the administration. A school that has weak football teams year after year has an administration that has not adequately supported its football program. A head coach cannot solve systematic program problems without some help. A bad head coach can destroy a good program much faster than a great coach can build a strong program. For example, if Beatty went to McCreary County, how many teaching positions or other jobs would be available for staff members that he might want to hire. Or would he have to train most of the staff that was already in place, and gradually bring others in as job openings became available? What kind of feeder system would he have to work with? That is a very important part of a good high school program.

This is what I mean when I say, "All else being equal," when I talk about the role that enrollment size plays in football. Some districts have such a bad reputation in football, they have an uphill battle just to convince a good coach to interview for the position. Johnson Central started with no program and none of the high schools that consolidated to form the school fielded football teams. The politics of school board members from the five schools squabbling among themselves was not helpful, and it took a long time before the program really started to improve. 

Having a weak football program has nothing to do with the potential of a school to build a good football program. Any two schools with 500 boys are capable of being competitive with one another if all else is equal. Football genes are scattered pretty randomly.

[jetpilot]

"It's not the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog"

"It's not the size of the wave but the motion of the ocean."

Ding!
"What are things Hoot will never say?"
"I'll take things Hoot scoffs at for 1000 Alex"

[Old School Hound]

"It's not the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog"

"It's not the size of the wave but the motion of the ocean."

Ding!
"What are things Hoot will never say?"
"I'll take things Hoot scoffs at for 1000 Alex"

Alex is dead but class snobbery is alive and well. 
Just curious,  what the difference in numbers of students  for  JC  and Pikeville ?

[jetpilot]

Pikeville has around 400 in 9 through 12. Don't know about JC but much bigger obviously. Just saw JC at about 1060

[Bull got out!]

Game Day!

[Hound05]

Pikeville has around 400 in 9 through 12. Don't know about JC but much bigger obviously. Just saw JC at about 1060

I think I posted it in one of my posts I’m rambling on about haha. Different sites have different numbers. But I went off the KHSAA website. It does avg boys. 4 yr avg boys. And a few other things. I cant remember now, but JC was one of the largest 4Aschools. Way more than 100
boys larger than Corbin, boyle. 

glad it’s Friday

[Hoot Gibson]

Pikeville has around 400 in 9 through 12. Don't know about JC but much bigger obviously. Just saw JC at about 1060

I think I posted it in one of my posts I’m rambling on about haha. Different sites have different numbers. But I went off the KHSAA website. It does avg boys. 4 yr avg boys. And a few other things. I cant remember now, but JC was one of the largest 4Aschools. Way more than 100
boys larger than Corbin, boyle. 

glad it’s Friday

At the time of reclassification, JC's enrollment placed it as one of the smallest 5A schools. They were offered the opportunity of playing down in 4A because of the number of 4A schools playing up in 5A. I don't know where JC's enrollment would place it now.

[Hound05]

That explains why they are one of the largest 4A schools then. I thought I remembered something like that