[Old School Hound]

About this time last year I posted a thread about Clay County basketball and it basically turned into a Glenn Gray bashing thread. I will give some people credit for forecasting a year ago how bad it would be this season. You were right about that. However, I think its time for those who are closer to the situation than I am to man up and speak straight. 

All we've heard from those "in the know" is  bashing the current coach as someone who can't coach his way out of a paper bag. Someone even said his teenage daughter could do a better job than Gray.  Also, all we've heard this past year is people speaking in some kind of damn Manchester code instead of telling us the story straight. We don't get names other than some guy named Sexton(I guess he's the SOCCS) and some mysterious cabal that have conspired use its political influence to eff up Clay County athletics.

I've made the case in another thread that Gray, given enough talent, can beat good teams. He's beaten the best of the best coaches in the region as well as some really good teams statewide.  The fact is, Gray has never had the Richie Farmer , Russ Farmer, Russ Chadwell, Shannon Hoskins  level of talent that Keith and even Marcum had to work with. 

Coaching can't be the biggest problem with CC basketball. There's got to be a lot more to it than "Glenn Gray owns a newspaper and Sexton is from Knox County."  Come one people, tell us straight out why Clay County is now on par with Red Bird, rather than the elite teams of the 13th.

Quit speaking in code and suggesting there's some mysterious group of people whose agenda it is to piss on Keith's legacy and destroy a once proud program.   Could it be that the talent is just not there like it used to be? Socioeconomic factors?  Joe Biden?

Let's hear a State of the Tiger program address from someone who actually knows what the hell is going on over there and can actually give names of the offending parties.

Clay County gave notoriety to the 13th region all across the state with those good teams from the seventies and eighties. The region is stronger today because Clay County was so good for so long.  Clay has won nearly a third of all 13th region titles in history. Clay and Corbin, in fact, have won nearly half of all the 13th region titles.

I want answers!!!!   Not rumor, innuendo, personal grudges against Gray, subtle references to a BOE cabal that cares less about the program's legacy.  Someone dish the facts... JUST THE FACTS!!!  Why has it gotten this grotesque in  what used to be the center of basketball Nirvana in eastern Kentucky.

[BUFFALO]

Cabal ?

[CatsFan99]

Lord have mercy, you’re only gonna keep posting positive Glenn Gray stuff until you hear what you’re looking for ??. All the Clay people on the site are telling you their real, honest opinions from being around the program, I don’t know what else you wanna hear. If you’re looking for someone to post that he’s amazing like it seems, you aren’t gonna hear it from Clay people because they know how it is

[Old School Hound]

Lord have mercy, you’re only gonna keep posting positive Glenn Gray stuff until you hear what you’re looking for ??. All the Clay people on the site are telling you their real, honest opinions from being around the program, I don’t know what else you wanna hear. If you’re looking for someone to post that he’s amazing like it seems, you aren’t gonna hear it from Clay people because they know how it is

I would ask for mercy on those who have such venom  in the dark abyss of their souls for a man like Glenn Gray, who has done a lot of winning and beaten a lot of good coaches multiple times while at Clay. He has not won regions(which apparently is all that matters to many over there in M town).  Look, I don't know Gray, have never spoken to him as far as I know. I have watched his teams win a lot of basketball games--- against Corbin, North Laurel, Knox, Lex Cath, Scott County, Knoxville Cath, and more.

What do his former players have to say about him? Not lies, but the truth, please.  Richies' kids played for him and did very well. The problems at Clay do not begin and end with Glenn Gray. I'm convinced of it. Now, who wants to educate us on what the REAL problem is ?

[Playcaller66]

Lord have mercy, you’re only gonna keep posting positive Glenn Gray stuff until you hear what you’re looking for ??. All the Clay people on the site are telling you their real, honest opinions from being around the program, I don’t know what else you wanna hear. If you’re looking for someone to post that he’s amazing like it seems, you aren’t gonna hear it from Clay people because they know how it is

I would ask for mercy on those who have such venom  in the dark abyss of their souls for a man like Glenn Gray, who has done a lot of winning and beaten a lot of good coaches multiple times while at Clay. He has not won regions(which apparently is all that matters to many over there in M town).  Look, I don't know Gray, have never spoken to him as far as I know. I have watched his teams win a lot of basketball games--- against Corbin, North Laurel, Knox,  Lex Cath, Scott County, Knoxville Cath, and more. 

What do his former players have to say about him? Not lies, but the truth, please.  Richies' kids played for him and did very well. The problems at Clay do not begin and end with Glenn Gray. I'm convinced of it. Now, who wants to educate us on what the REAL problem is ?

The real problem is not begging Marcum back.

[DukeBoy]

Marcum the only coach in KY?

[Granny Bear]

"Manchester code"!!! LOLOLOLOL

[Reds#1Fan]

I’m not from the 13th region and won’t claim to know everything about Clay’s basketball program but I do know if you coach at a place like Clay for 5 plus years you don’t have any excuses. Coaches are supposed to be able to develop talent and in Clay’s case recruit talent on some levels. For anyone to act like winning district titles in Clay County is going to fly is crazy. With that being said, it’s not the 80’s anymore North & South Laurel, Harlan County, and Knox Central are all big schools that have big impacts most years in basketball.

[Waynes_]

Marcum the only coach in KY?

---

No he definitely isn’t. They’re are a few decent candidates within the county. I just think it’s understood, that marcum should still be coaching and no one is even close within the county that is better than him doing the job. He was a proven winner and the program would still be relevant if he was still coaching. But like I have said before, I really think he would never coach under the current administration. Nor do I think the administration would swallow their pride and admit the errors of their ways and approach him. So I think the marcum thing is irrelevant. He was a great coach and player for the program, but that is the past and politics messed that up. And they won’t hire from outside county, so It’s just a mess and new leadership is needed in several areas.

[nedreader]

Old School Hound, enough is enough. Your passive support of Gray is getting old. He should have won the region 2-3 times in the last 5 years but only won 2 regional games total. If there was a 20/20 special on TV to investigate the program and connect the dots on the political ties within the program it would be comical. Rumors are that the JV rarely practiced last year. Gray resists any advice/help from people with known coaching success and the principal does whatever Sexton tells him and Sexton is told by someone on the school board.

[LogCabinAbe]

Look at it this way…..
There was always competition but not nearly the level of competition there is now. Clay used to attract players because their programs were lacking, now there a many good teams in the region.

Let’s face it Manchester is not a destination where you want to live, what does it have to offer that several other cities can’t top. Lots of folks work at the prison but they drive in from other places. The infrastructure is not there to develop the area, therefore it makes it tougher to attract players.

What is the population as compared to Laurel County?

As a district what do they offer educationally that other schools can’t?

Sometimes the sun sets on great programs. Its not all about a coach, or kids or the school or the area but a combo of all of those.

Clay will recover but they will never dominate like days gone by…..

FACTS

[Cowboy2]

Look at it this way…..
There was always competition but not nearly the level of competition there is now.  Clay used to attract players because their programs were lacking, now there a many good teams in the region.

Let’s face it Manchester is not a destination where you want to live, what does it have to offer that several other cities can’t top.  Lots of folks work at the prison but they drive in from other places.  The infrastructure is not there to develop the area, therefore it makes it tougher to attract players.

What is the population as compared to Laurel County? 

As a district what do they offer educationally that other schools can’t?

Sometimes the sun sets on great programs.  Its not all about a coach, or kids or the school or the area but a combo of all of those.

Clay will recover but they will never dominate like days gone by…..

FACTS

Your argument seems a lot more factual because of current conditions. No one is expecting anything like the glory days but Clay had the best rotation in the region just two years ago and has a very competitive teenage group if all pieces are together. There are 3-4 issues right now that make all this seem worse than it has to be. Manchester is not the same as some communities but it does not have to be like this either. I think that’s what most are saying.

[Old School Hound]

"Manchester code"!!!  LOLOLOLOL

Damn right....  I thought you'd like that one, granny. lol    I take an interpreter with me every time I travel over there to the bakery. (Very good bakery, btw).  

In all seriousness  , I just wish our Clay Co.  friends would be more direct and to the point instead of insinuating that  the problems with  CC athletics  is the fault of some sort of Manchester Illuminati headed up by these shady political figures.

[Old School Hound]

nedreader telling me "enough is enough" almost assures there will be a " Clay County Basketball(Part 50)" thread.

[BUFFALO]

Need a Clay Co. interpreter. Someone translate. Cabal and illuminati? What are these words?

[cchsfan4life]

About this time last year I posted a thread about Clay County basketball and it basically turned into a Glenn Gray bashing thread. I will give some people credit for forecasting a year ago how bad it would be this season. You were right about that. However, I think its time for those who are closer to the situation than I am to man up and speak straight. 

All we've heard from those "in the know" is  bashing the current coach as someone who can't coach his way out of a paper bag. Someone even said his teenage daughter could do a better job than Gray.  Also, all we've heard this past year is people speaking in some kind of damn Manchester code instead of telling us the story straight. We don't get names other than some guy named Sexton(I guess he's the SOCCS) and some mysterious cabal that have conspired use its political influence to eff up Clay County athletics.

I've made the case in another thread that Gray, given enough talent, can beat good teams. He's beaten the best of the best coaches in the region as well as some really good teams statewide.  The fact is, Gray has never had the Richie Farmer , Russ Farmer, Russ Chadwell, Shannon Hoskins  level of talent that Keith and even Marcum had to work with. 

Coaching can't be the biggest problem with CC basketball. There's got to be a lot more to it than "Glenn Gray owns a newspaper and Sexton is from Knox County."  Come one people, tell us straight out why Clay County is now on par with Red Bird, rather than the elite teams of the 13th.

Quit speaking in code and suggesting there's some mysterious group of people whose agenda it is to piss on Keith's legacy and destroy a once proud program.   Could it be that the talent is just not there like it used to be? Socioeconomic factors?  Joe Biden?

Let's hear a State of the Tiger program address from someone who actually knows what the hell is going on over there and can actually give names of the offending parties.

Clay County gave notoriety to the 13th region all across the state with those good teams from the seventies and eighties. The region is stronger today because Clay County was so good for so long.  Clay has won nearly a third of all 13th region titles in history. Clay and Corbin, in fact, have won nearly half of all the 13th region titles.

I want answers!!!!   Not rumor, innuendo, personal grudges against Gray, subtle references to a BOE cabal that cares less about the program's legacy.  Someone dish the facts... JUST THE FACTS!!!  Why has it gotten this grotesque in  what used to be the center of basketball Nirvana in eastern Kentucky.

No matter what we say you defend coach Gray.  He is a terrible coach no matter what you or anyone says.  He is a grade school coach not a high school coach.  He wanted the job......the board of education worked behind the scenes to vote out 2 board members and get rid of the previous superintendent Amon Couch.  They got the board members in to appoint Sexton as superintendent and then ran off Marcum.........Yes he resigned but it was situation kind of like Patterson at Knox....he resigned but the people there had enough sense to realize they couldn't let him walk.  Clay's administration got what they wanted.  They brought in Gray with a group of talented kids who were young and had won a middle school title.  We see the results he got with them.......I'm the one who said my teenage daughter could have gotten better results because there is no way she could have gotten any worse.  Another example.........when Anthony Hibbard and his wife were at Clay and she was in charge of the pep section....the pep section was thriving and now going to a Clay game is like walking into a funeral.  Until changes is made in both the boys and girls basketball program this is what you will have.  Until people in Manchester mad up and get these fools out of office at the board and get new leadership in.......changes will not be made.

[BUFFALO]

So the girls program too. Do you know what cabal and illuminati are? I'm trying to find someone in Clay who does.

[nedreader]

#runitintotheground
#girlscoachneedstogotoo
#boycotttheenterprise
#covidprotocol
#saylorbrothersallstarnotcchscoach
#feefifofumcoachgrayisabum

[Bossdaddy 4115]

#runitintotheground
#girlscoachneedstogotoo
#boycotttheenterprise
#covidprotocol
#saylorbrothersallstarnotcchscoach
#feefifofumcoachgrayisabum

Some people cant relate, but as a corbin football fan I can say i have seen this in motion. When politics override talent then you have a problem. Two years ago clay had one of the most talented teams in the region and they couldn’t perform, I seen it first hand at corbin this year. I feel bad for you all, I know all about the waste.

[zaga_fan]

I think I say it every year, but the expectations at Clay County are really hard to meet.

[Old School Hound]

I think I say it every year, but the expectations at Clay County are really hard to meet.

Especially when those expectations are so unrealistic.  There hasn't been Bobby Keith era talent there since... well, the Bobby Keith era.

[cchsfan4life]

I think I say it every year, but the expectations at Clay County are really hard to meet.

If being competitive and being a regional contender (not winner) every year are high expectations and hard to meet then what are the expectations?  I'd love to seen good ole Tony P begin losing to teams like Pineville and getting blowed up by 30 points most games or even get knocked out in the district multiple years.  People in Corbin would be losing their minds.....but you know what it most likely won't happen because he is a good high school coach and gets results from his kids no matter if they are the most talented or have no talent.....they are always competitive and a threat.  Every coach that Clay County has had in the past from Keith to today has been competitive and been a threat....until the Gray era.

[zaga_fan]

I think I say it every year, but the expectations at Clay County are really hard to meet.

If being competitive and being a regional contender (not winner) every year are high expectations and hard to meet then what are the expectations?  I'd love to seen good ole Tony P begin losing to teams like Pineville and getting blowed up by 30 points most games or even get knocked out in the district multiple years.  People in Corbin would be losing their minds.....but you know what it most likely won't happen because he is a good high school coach and gets results from his kids no matter if they are the most talented or have no talent.....they are always competitive and a threat.  Every coach that Clay County has had in the past from Keith to today has been competitive and been a threat....until the Gray era.

Last year they lost in the semis to the eventual champ and lost to North by 2 in the district championship - people complained
I've watched these "State of Clay County Basketball" threads pop up every year and it's not just been Gray. People weren't happy with Marcum either.

I won't sit here and say that Clay doesn't have issues this season, but in my opinion the expectations in Manchester are always going to be unrealistically high because of the success in the Bobby Keith era and the state of Eastern Kentucky right now. There are a bunch of really big schools in the 13th now and you've got some right off I-75 that make things really competitive. I don't blame anyone in Clay County for wanting more than 3-10 right now, but unless I'm remembering wrong (always a possibility) these sentiments just aren't limited to this year or Glenn Gray.

[Spoozer12]

I think I say it every year, but the expectations at Clay County are really hard to meet.

If being competitive and being a regional contender (not winner) every year are high expectations and hard to meet then what are the expectations?  I'd love to seen good ole Tony P begin losing to teams like Pineville and getting blowed up by 30 points most games or even get knocked out in the district multiple years.  People in Corbin would be losing their minds.....but you know what it most likely won't happen because he is a good high school coach and gets results from his kids no matter if they are the most talented or have no talent.....they are always competitive and a threat.  Every coach that Clay County has had in the past from Keith to today has been competitive and been a threat....until the Gray era.

Last year they lost in the semis to the eventual champ and lost to North by 2 in the district championship - people complained
I've watched these "State of Clay County Basketball" threads pop up every year and it's not just been Gray. People weren't happy with Marcum either.

I won't sit here and say that Clay doesn't have issues this season, but in my opinion the expectations in Manchester are always going to be unrealistically high because of the success in the Bobby Keith era and the state of Eastern Kentucky right now. There are a bunch of really big schools in the 13th now and you've got some right off I-75 that make things really competitive. I don't blame anyone in Clay County for wanting more than 3-10 right now, but unless I'm remembering wrong (always a possibility) these sentiments just aren't limited to this year or Glenn Gray.

You mentioned big schools, no one speaks about the economic situation in Clay, so many people are leaving for more opportunity, the Clay today is no where near the Clay of Bobby Keith nor even Robert Marcum with a much stronger economy feeding their programs.  Unless you're looking for Pills or well....... Pills (they do have an abundance of pharmacies) you'll need to go somewhere else, there is literally nothing there anymore.  The single biggest issue is feeder systems, until something happens and people start to stay, or move in and make it their home, you won't ever see a rebound, unless the KHSAA goes to a class system, where Clay would be playing 2A Basketball, in 4 class system 3 in a 6A.  Look for them to move to 3A possibly 2A in Football, Clay County is losing it's young productive families.    Just my take on it all....

[LOOKAYANNER]

The school enrollment is not what it was when Keith was at his peak of success in the 1980’s. Clay County has lost almost 4,000 people since the ‘80’s. It’s tougher to keep up the high level of success when the numbers of boys in all grades aren’t the same as 30 years ago. It lessens the talent pool. Some schools are able to develop and keep the talent levels very competitive after losing enrollment but after a closer look many of those same schools also have a few talented transfers to help reach that level.
However, my guess is Clay County will develop talent for the future. Their school is just going through a low period but it will probably improve. I’m not from there, nor do I know their coach, superintendent, principal, etc. But I am from an adjacent county in a different region and have always kept up with the Tigers in most years.

But all factors considered with this year’s team, the talent just isn’t there. Which is an anomaly for them and their fans. It’s hard to digest when you’re used to being one of the regional contenders every year.
There’s an old saying that I heard a retired coach say one time: “You can’t take a mule and win the Kentucky Derby”.

[Old School Hound]

The school enrollment is not what it was when Keith was at his peak of success in the 1980’s. Clay County has lost almost 4,000 people since the ‘80’s. It’s tougher to keep up the high level of success when the numbers of boys in all grades aren’t the same as 30 years ago. It lessens the talent pool. Some schools are able to develop and keep the talent levels very competitive after losing enrollment but after a closer look many of those same schools also have a few talented transfers to help reach that level.
However, my guess is Clay County will develop talent for the future. Their school is just going through a low period but it will probably improve. I’m not from there, nor do I know their coach, superintendent, principal, etc. But I am from an adjacent county in a different region and have always kept up with the Tigers in most years.

But all factors considered with this year’s team, the talent just isn’t there. Which is an anomaly for them and their fans. It’s hard to digest when you’re used to being one of the regional contenders every year.
There’s an old saying that I heard a retired coach say one time: “You can’t take a mule and win the Kentucky Derby”.

Coach K would not be any better than 3-10 right now with this Clay team. If the talent is not there, you can't win regardless who is at the helm. When Gray had more talent, he won a lot of games. Yes, he came up short in regional wins but he has some impressive wins on his resume( see my other post) and he has beaten all of the "elite" coaches in the region multiple times. He has winning records against Valentine at NL and Akal at Harlan, both of whom has had some incredibly talented teams the past few years. 

I have only seen one CC game in person this season. While it was evident that they were not very talented, the kids never gave up and played hard until the very end and Coach Gray coached his tail off the entire game. That's just factual.  Some on here have an over the top disdain for the CC coach. Whatever the reasons for the personal acrimony, the fact remains that Gray is not a bad basketball coach. His results against good teams and good coaches back that up. Look, I am from Corbin, not Clay. I don't know Coach Gray, never spoke to him that I know of. I have watched him coach quite a number of games the past six years and I've always thought he does a pretty admirable job. He's still the only high school coach that I've ever seen shut out a quality opponent in the fourth quarter. The team had two or three D-I starters and had Clay down by 10 after three quarters. Gray's Tigers outscored them 11-0 in quarter four to win by one. I talked to a lot of CC fans that night and NONE of them were lamenting what a terrible coach Gray was.  Winning tends to mute talk about how bad a coach  while losing exacerbates such criticism. 

Clay may never be the dominant team they were for decades but they will be good again. Life is all about cycles.

[BUFFALO]

About this time last year I posted a thread about Clay County basketball and it basically turned into a Glenn Gray bashing thread. I will give some people credit for forecasting a year ago how bad it would be this season. You were right about that. However, I think its time for those who are closer to the situation than I am to man up and speak straight. 

All we've heard from those "in the know" is  bashing the current coach as someone who can't coach his way out of a paper bag. Someone even said his teenage daughter could do a better job than Gray.  Also, all we've heard this past year is people speaking in some kind of damn Manchester code instead of telling us the story straight. We don't get names other than some guy named Sexton(I guess he's the SOCCS) and some mysterious cabal that have conspired use its political influence to eff up Clay County athletics.

I've made the case in another thread that Gray, given enough talent, can beat good teams. He's beaten the best of the best coaches in the region as well as some really good teams statewide.  The fact is, Gray has never had the Richie Farmer , Russ Farmer, Russ Chadwell, Shannon Hoskins  level of talent that Keith and even Marcum had to work with. 

Coaching can't be the biggest problem with CC basketball. There's got to be a lot more to it than "Glenn Gray owns a newspaper and Sexton is from Knox County."  Come one people, tell us straight out why Clay County is now on par with Red Bird, rather than the elite teams of the 13th.

Quit speaking in code and suggesting there's some mysterious group of people whose agenda it is to piss on Keith's legacy and destroy a once proud program.   Could it be that the talent is just not there like it used to be? Socioeconomic factors?  Joe Biden?

Let's hear a State of the Tiger program address from someone who actually knows what the hell is going on over there and can actually give names of the offending parties.

Clay County gave notoriety to the 13th region all across the state with those good teams from the seventies and eighties. The region is stronger today because Clay County was so good for so long.  Clay has won nearly a third of all 13th region titles in history. Clay and Corbin, in fact, have won nearly half of all the 13th region titles.

I want answers!!!!   Not rumor, innuendo, personal grudges against Gray, subtle references to a BOE cabal that cares less about the program's legacy.  Someone dish the facts... JUST THE FACTS!!!  Why has it gotten this grotesque in  what used to be the center of basketball Nirvana in eastern Kentucky. 
Finally found out what "cabal" means. As you can see above it was probably used in the right context. Cabal means , " a small group of secret plotters, as against someone in authority." I suppose it was this small secret group plotting against Coach Gray. Straight from Google.

[Fan of many]

If you need to know the truth then the Clay Co talent pool has run dry and everyone has passed them up in talent

[Old School Hound]

If you need to know the truth then the Clay Co talent pool has run dry and everyone has passed them up in talent

Simple as that?  I guess we can close this one down then. I tend to think you are probably right because Clay has competed well the past six years when its had some talent on the roster.  If it's just the case of no more talent,  I guess all the talk blaming newspapers owned by coaches,  coaches owned by shady political figures, and BOE members who don't give a crap about basketball was just message board fodder put out there by people that have been butthurt in some manner by the CC coach or Super. 

Maybe we've looked too deep for answers when the answer is simple and obvious. There is no talent there anymore. Thanks "Fan of many" for reminding us that the simplest explanation is often the correct one. Maybe it's not the fault of a Manchester Illuminati after all.

[nedreader]

You people that think Coach Keith couldn't have done a ton better with the talent over the last 5-6 years are just plain stupid or don't remember the athletes he put on the floor year in and year out that won despite their lack of athleticism and/or talent. He took role players and made them defensive stoppers, he took 6'1" pivots and made them rebounding machines and improved the games of those who already had a little talent. Player development, ability to motivate and rapport with the team is the difference people. The talent level is only a piece of the puzzle. Does Gray do anything as far as team-building? Does he interact well with the players off the court? Does he take a vested interest in their lives off the court? Do the players trust him? He's not a faculty member at the school so he would need to make a concerted effort in these regards. If there are no expectations, there will be no success!