[OrangenowBlue]

I think many of the kids that play for Paris are poor kids who have no choice. They are losing their good solid athletes to other schools. I was at a basketball tournament in Paris a few years ago and they had pictures and trophies of middle school teams that had won championships and many of those kids went on to be successful athletes at other schools in surrounding counties and in Lexington.

[Proud Ram Fan 1168]

After reading all these post. Almost every post had a piece of the puzzle. So if we put all of it together. We'll have the answer!!
Just like the weather. In time things will change. Everything does!

[Tica]

I would note one other difference - the lack of a large private or church prep school in the mountains which fields a competitive football program which would allow it to draw (recruit) the best players from the region to field competitive teams like schools in Lexington and Louisville do.

[MayfieldCardinal]

The question is what makes you better than the rest? Fill us in that's what this whole thread is about.

I am the difference, for years I have been secretly putting supplements in the Mayfield water so we can dominate in football. :thatsfunn

If they ever have an investigation I fear they will lock me up with some famous baseball players

[Dragonsdad]

I wonder how many of Mayfields players live outside the city limits in Graves Co. and pay the tuition to attend Mayfield?

[MayfieldCardinal]

Honestly, I have pondered the question many times myself as to why we have been so good and I see some unique things but not a smoking gun. We have some blacks that have been difference makers but we were doing it long before blacks went to Mayfield back when they had their own school so I dont think that is all of it. We even have had a few Mexican kids that have played a roll recently like last years title team. Mayfield is a average community in all reguards to economics, better off than some communities and no as well off as others. We are only average at other sports. We do have one aspect that plays a huge roll and that is the tradition. Go look at a Cardinal roster in any given year and you find both white and black kids playing that had dads and granddads that played. The names are the same as they were 50 years ago. Community support is there as well. A recent down turn in our football success (we were still winning but failed to capture a title from 2002 til last year) I think can be directly traced to a couple of large plant closings that saw some of our good athletes familes have to move away. At times we have lost players to the big county school (Graves) but right now that trend seems to have swung back to us a little bit as we gained a few of their players the last couple of years that has not yet helped the program but will this year and the next couple of years. Before Graves consolidated in the mid 1980's we had kids who would come to Mayfield to play and that certainly helped. Out tradition is better than most but its not exclusive to us so I am not sure why we win. We have had a very stable coaching situation with only 3 coaches going back to the early 1970's and all 3 were very good and very successful. The recent coach has also proven to be very good at adapting to changes in the game as we now run the spread. Somthing that freaked the locals out for at first as we have ran the wish bone for a hundred years.

It appears to me to be like a recipe, a combination of different ingredients mixed together in the right porportions

[MayfieldCardinal]

I wonder how many of Mayfields players live outside the city limits in Graves Co. and pay the tuition to attend Mayfield?

Prior to Graves consolidation several. After not many and at one point we were losing student athelets to them. Recently we have seen this reverse where we have 2 this year that will make a impact and maybe a couple of others that will or will atleast help. This factor has varied over the years but right now while we are winning titles it is alot more appealing. Improvements in Mayfield's academics has also helped this as for a few years Graves was getting alot of state wide attention for their academic sussess which they still do well with but Mayfield is also way up there academically as welll today.

[Dragonsdad]

Prior to Graves consolidation several. After not many and at one point we were losing student athelets to them. Recently we have seen this reverse where we have 2 this year that will make a impact and maybe a couple of others that will or will atleast help. This factor has varied over the years but right now while we are winning titles it is alot more appealing. Improvements in Mayfield's academics has also helped this as for a few years Graves was getting alot of state wide attention for their academic sussess which they still do well with but Mayfield is also way up there academically as welll today.

Thanks Mayfield Cardinal. I thinks this backs up my earlier statements about the size of the Mayfield city limits. They cover more area than most EKY cities and also draw from the Graves Co. talent pool. That gives them the ability to be a 1A team with the talent of a much larger school,say,5A maybe. It's hard for a "normal" 1A team to compete with that. JMO

[MayfieldCardinal]

Thanks Mayfield Cardinal. I thinks this backs up my earlier statements about the size of the Mayfield city limits. They cover more area than most EKY cities and also draw from the Graves Co. talent pool. That gives them the ability to be a 1A team with the talent of a much larger school,say,5A maybe. It's hard for a "normal" 1A team to compete with that. JMO

Yes and no, its helped but its not the "smoking gun" alot of the later titles had no Graves help. The help from Graves in recent times will be seen this year a little and the next couple more so. The 2002 and 2010 teams had no Graves help. The 2010 team did get some late season help from a transfer from Arkansas but even without him we were going to be the state champs last year.

[Dragonsdad]

Yes and no, its helped but its not the "smoking gun" alot of the later titles had no Graves help. The help from Graves in recent times will be seen this year a little and the next couple more so. The 2002 and 2010 teams had no Graves help. The 2010 team did get some late season help from a transfer from Arkansas but even without him we were going to be the state champs last year.

I know that Mayfield is very well coached and that plays a large part in it. But I also know that Mayfield's city limits are 3 times the size of,for instance,Harlan city.Harlan city is only a very small portion of Harlan Co. at 1.6 square miles and Mayfield takes up a much larger portion of Graves Co. at 8.5 square miles,so one can live a much greater distance from the school and still be in the city limits. If Harlan city limits were 8.5 we would include many smaller communities that's resident students now are considered county students. Meaning that more of Harlan Co.'s player's would be city students and would have to pay the county's tuition to go to the county school. Hypothetically speaking. Giving Harlan High School a much larger talent pool to draw from. Harlan High has a great coaching staff and more talent than previous years,but great coaches can only get so much out of the talent they have.

[MayfieldCardinal]

Not all city residence are in the city school district. Mayfield is a independent school system and has a locked school district boundary. In other words, when the city expands teheir borders by annexation the school boundaries do not follow. There was a hotly contested law suit over this in the late 70's I think it was and the state ruled that the school borders are locked. So all of Mayfield city is not in the city school district. This is not just true here but everywhere I assume.

But...............both Mayfield and Graves now have no tutition with each other so as of 2 years ago a kid in Mayfield or Graves can go to either school if accepted without paying tutition.

[Dragonsdad]

Not all city residence are in the city school district. Mayfield is a independent school system and has a locked school district boundary. In other words, when the city expands teheir borders by annexation the school boundaries do not follow. There was a hotly contested law suit over this in the late 70's I think it was and the state ruled that the school borders are locked. So all of Mayfield city is not in the city school district. This is not just true here but everywhere I assume.

But...............both Mayfield and Graves now have no tutition with each other so as of 2 years ago a kid in Mayfield or Graves can go to either school if accepted without paying tutition.

I'm not sure about the school boundaries and city boundaries in Harlan. The tuition deal you all have is great though. wish Harlan had that.

[The Iceboxx]

Coaching is everything, and being in a county where you can still play in a small class, but get the pick of the litter from the fedder programs from diffrent schools/

[Dragonsdad]

Correction. Harlan had that deal and the county decided to end it this year. Wish we still had it.

[RunItUpTheGut]

I think both of this hit it the best! Bottom-line, speed usually trumps power. You can make up for so many deficiencies with speed. And I guess it's a little known fact that us white boys don't run as fast as our African American peers. Thus, if the game comes down to two superior teams, one with speed and possibly less disciplined, they will still beat the bigger slower yet more disciplined team!

The college teams in Florida during the 80's and 90's (Miami, FSU and Florida) changed the game forever when they dominated the northern (whiter) teams with speed. Yes, Big and polished can still win occasionally, but not consistently.

So Runit and Tica, I give it to you guys for rounding out the debate!

:Thumbs:

[RunItUpTheGut]

You do not have to have black kids to win in high school. Highlands has been winning for a long time and have had no black kids until the last couple of years, and now the are lucky if they have 2-4 black kids on the team. Cov Cath is the same way. Can't use the race card as an excuse for not winning.

How many of those "white kids" are in the nfl playing though.
im saying its a general consensus.
Say what you want bu like SD said speed trumps power everyday and you just better be glad Highlands alwayy tends to find the fastest white kids in the state year in and year out, remarkable isnt it?:eyeroll:

[RunItUpTheGut]

Enough said!! As I read all these post. Everyone was trying not to step on toes. Say what you mean! You are absolutely right about this subject. All the people should be proud of what they have to give. Being in the ARMY for years and years you find out that no matter the color of skin. All are your brothers. I'm not colorblind! Blacks over all make better athletics. We should all be proud of that. Don't be afraid to say it!

:Thumbs:

[RunItUpTheGut]

RunItUpTheGut I have no clue of who you are. But I'm so glad their is someone out hear that will say what they feel. If more were like you all the people would be happier!
I think you hit it on the head again. Good job! jmo all...

:Thumbs:

[Brandon40403]

After reading all these post. Almost every post had a piece of the puzzle. So if we put all of it together. We'll have the answer!!
Just like the weather. In time things will change. Everything does!

I couldnt agree with you more

:Clap:

[MayfieldCardinal]

Just like the weather. In time things will change. Everything does!

We dont! We didnt get into the top few in the nation by just winning some of the time, we have been doing it for 100 years with only 5 unsuccessful campaigns of under .500 ball

[Proud Ram Fan 1168]

We dont! We didnt get into the top few in the nation by just winning some of the time, we have been doing it for 100 years with only 5 unsuccessful campaigns of under .500 ball

Someday MayfieldCardinal there will come another ice age!! Something will stop this over a hundred year old run!!

[Brandon40403]

We dont! We didnt get into the top few in the nation by just winning some of the time, we have been doing it for 100 years with only 5 unsuccessful campaigns of under .500 ball

True but i think this means that eastern kentucky teams will get up to the level of the beechwoods and mayfields which we need to

[Stardust]

True but i think this means that eastern kentucky teams will get up to the level of the beechwoods and mayfields which we need to

Why? This whole thread has talked about why there is a difference. What has now changed?

[Brandon40403]

I know what the thread talked about I created it....if the teams get up to the caliber of the others then that in turn will produce better college players which helps out the colleges in the state which in turn helps out the state......hypothetically

[BluegrassBuckeye]

I think someone forgot to tell the slow white kids at Boyle County that they can't beat the fast black kids at Danville, Bardstown, Franklin County, Henry Clay, Hopkinsville, Harrodsburg, Central, Lafayette, Dunbar, Christian County, Warren Central, Paducah Tighlman, etc...

I have seen lily white Rebel teams run over, around, and through predominantly black teams, including those listed above, for the past 12 years. The great Rebel teams of 1999 to 2003 rarely had a black kid on the team. :Thumbs:

[Stardust]

^ As stated MANY times, this thread stated that 90% of the time, the WKY teams are the most successfull. BC is one of those in the 10% exception. They just lost tonight to a lily white team tonight as well......

[Once a Colonel]

IMO, the biggest factor is that 90% of kids in the West and in NKY focus only on football. You will see alot of guys that wrestle or run track also, or both, which help in football, which is probably the reason they do it. You will see the occasional guys play baseball.

That sounds more like Northern Ky teams such as Highlands. Just last year, we had five players play in the state football championship and then play in the state basketballl championship. Four were significant contributers to both and one was in the running for Mr. Football and another one won Mr. Basketball. Many others played baseball, track, and wrestling, so in general not really concentrating on one sport.

[Stardust]

^ Nope, in NKY, the players play three sports which makes what they do in football even more impressive!

[lochocinco]

It may originate as EKY vs WKY, but really, the question at the heart of it is, why don't EKY teams compete for and win titles on a regular basis versus the rest of the state? Because if you're talking about WKY teams, with the exception of Mayfield, they're not any more successful than EKY teams. Outside of Mayfield (and Fort Campbell, I guess, but they're not really germane to this since they get a big new crop of kids every year from the military), who in WKY is dominating? O-Cath, Hop-town, Bowling Green, et cetera, every year a team from the west makes it to the state final because the brackets are set up such that a team from the west HAS to make it there, and almost universally that western team gets smoked in the final by a team from Lex/Lou/NKY just like all the EKY teams get smoked by those teams. So the real question is one of two things: why is Mayfield so good, or why are EKY teams so bad?

No , it doesn't "universally" happen that way.

2007 state finals:

2A: Fort Campbell 21, Newport Catholic 7
3A: Central 27, Belfry 17

2008 state finals:

A: Beechwood 14, Hazard 7
2A: Fort Campbell 26, Newport Catholic 23
4A: Bell County 15, Bullitt East 13

2009 state finals:

2A: Fort Campbell 29, DeSales 9
4A: Boyle County 42, Lone Oak 39 (2OT)

2010 state finals:

4A: Boyle County 28, Allen County 21

Fort Campbell doesn't always get a new crop of guys every year. Several of the key players on the three state championship teams played most or all of their high school football at Fort Campbell.

Fort Knox once enjoyed similar success, but doesn't anymore ... why not, if they can just bring in a new crop of guys every year?

[lochocinco]

Not all city residence are in the city school district. Mayfield is a independent school system and has a locked school district boundary. In other words, when the city expands teheir borders by annexation the school boundaries do not follow. There was a hotly contested law suit over this in the late 70's I think it was and the state ruled that the school borders are locked. So all of Mayfield city is not in the city school district. This is not just true here but everywhere I assume.

But...............both Mayfield and Graves now have no tutition with each other so as of 2 years ago a kid in Mayfield or Graves can go to either school if accepted without paying tutition.

The same is true in Paducah and Murray. I am told there is one street in Paducah, in one of the old-money areas, where one side is in the city district and the other is in the county district.

Open enrollment, however, makes that less of a factor now.