[Pulp Fiction]

3A teams
Casey County 1 - 4
Breathitt County 1 - 4
East Carter 1 - 4
Western Hills 1 - 4
Bath County 1 - 5
Paducah Tilghman 1 - 5
Webster County 1 - 5
LaRue County 0 - 5
Fleming County 0 - 5
Sheldon Clark 0 - 5
McCreary Central 0 - 6

[Pulp Fiction]

4A teams
Western 1 - 4
Rockcastle County 1 - 5
Rowan County 1 - 5
Waggener 0 - 5
Valley 0 - 5
Fairdale 0 - 5
Breckinridge County 0 - 6
Hopkins County Central 0 - 6
Boyd County 0 - 6
Atherton 0 - 6

[The_Rock]

When do you guys feel like a kid should really start trying to learn the game? I mean X's and O's. Linemen knowing who to block on play calls, etc. By what grade level?

[Pulp Fiction]

5A teams
Woodford County 1 - 4
East Jessamine 1 - 4
Grant County 1 - 4
Apollo 1 - 4
Barren County 1 - 5
Jeffersontown 0 - 5
Whitley County 0 - 6
Logan County 0 - 6
Southwestern 0 - 6
North Hardin 0 - 6

[Pulp Fiction]

6A teams
Lafayette 1 - 5
George Rogers Clark 1 - 5
Madison Central 1 - 5
Ryle 1 - 5
Marshall County 0 - 5
Seneca 0 - 5
Boone County 0 - 6

[Pulp Fiction]

1A teams
Allen Central 1 - 4
Jenkins 1 - 4
Fulton City 1 - 4
Berea 1 - 5
Fulton County 0 - 4
Campbellsville 0 - 5
Harlan 0 - 5
Phelps 0 - 5

2A teams
Holy Cross (Covington) 1 - 4
Fort Knox 1 - 4
Newport 1 - 4
Owen County 1 - 5
Lexington Christian 1 - 5
Hancock County 0 - 5
Todd County Central 0 - 5
Trimble County 0 - 5 - 0
Thomas Nelson 0 - 6

3A teams
Casey County 1 - 4
Breathitt County 1 - 4
East Carter 1 - 4
Western Hills 1 - 4
Bath County 1 - 5
Paducah Tilghman 1 - 5
Webster County 1 - 5
LaRue County 0 - 5
Fleming County 0 - 5
Sheldon Clark 0 - 5
McCreary Central 0 - 6

4A teams
Western 1 - 4
Rockcastle County 1 - 5
Rowan County 1 - 5
Waggener 0 - 5
Valley 0 - 5
Fairdale 0 - 5
Breckinridge County 0 - 6
Hopkins County Central 0 - 6
Boyd County 0 - 6
Atherton 0 - 6

5A teams
Woodford County 1 - 4
East Jessamine 1 - 4
Grant County 1 - 4
Apollo 1 - 4
Barren County 1 - 5
Jeffersontown 0 - 5
Whitley County 0 - 6
Logan County 0 - 6
Southwestern 0 - 6
North Hardin 0 - 6

6A teams
Lafayette 1 - 5
George Rogers Clark 1 - 5
Madison Central 1 - 5
Ryle 1 - 5
Marshall County 0 - 5
Seneca 0 - 5
Boone County 0 - 6

I got these numbers from the khsaa scoreboard, I only used teams with 1 win or 0 wins..... In all 6 classes, I see the gamut of the Commonwealth.... WKY, NKY, EKY, CKY/Lex, Lou. Metro. You can't tell me that bad football is just located in a select few spots.

[Fly Like a Duck]

1A teams
Allen Central 1 - 4
Jenkins 1 - 4
Fulton City 1 - 4
Berea 1 - 5
Fulton County 0 - 4
Campbellsville 0 - 5
Harlan 0 - 5
Phelps 0 - 5

To the defense of the bolded. The powers to be in Fulton, both County and City, are doing their entire communities an injustice by not merging both of these (they'd still be 1A).

Fulton City is the smallest football playing school in the state and Fulton County is #2 in that category.

Campbellsville has played 6 ames and ONLY ONE of those games has been against 1A competition (Bethlehem, whom is undefeated).

[Pulp Fiction]

Here are class 1A-6A teams with 1 loss or who are undefeated so far this season..... As with the 1 win or 0 wins... it's the gamut of the Commonwealth, WKY, NKY, EKY, CKY/Lex, Lou. Metro.

1A teams
Russellville 6 - 0
Mayfield 6 - 0
Bethlehem 5 - 0
Fairview 5 - 0
Paintsville 5 - 1
Pikeville 5 - 1
Paris 4 - 1

2A teams
Christian Academy-Louisville 6 - 0
DeSales 6 - 0
Caldwell County 6 - 0
Walton-Verona 5 - 1
Ballard Memorial 5 - 1
Glasgow 5 - 1
Union County 4 - 1
Bardstown 4 - 1
Middlesboro 4 - 1
Betsy Layne 4 - 1

3A teams
South Warren 6 - 0
Wayne County 6 - 0
Bourbon County 5 - 0
Belfry 5 - 0
Mason County 5 - 0
Corbin 5 - 0
Lawrence County 5 - 1
Elizabethtown 5 - 1
Magoffin County 4 - 1
Lewis County 4 - 1
Powell County 4 - 1

4A teams
Highlands 6 - 0
Boyle County 6 - 0
Johnson Central 5 - 0
Owensboro 5 - 1
Collins 4 - 1
Russell County 4 - 1

5A teams
Pulaski County 6 - 0
Scott 6 - 0
Franklin County 6 - 0
Madison Southern 5 - 0
North Laurel 5 - 0
Bowling Green 5 - 0
Bullitt East 5 - 1
Anderson County 4 - 1
Graves County 4 - 1
Shelby County 3 - 1

6A teams
Scott County 6 - 0
Simon Kenton 6 - 0
Central Hardin 6 - 0
DuPont Manual 5-0
Henry Clay 5 - 0
Male 5 - 0
Henderson County 5 - 1
Butler 4 - 1
Dixie Heights 4 - 1
Meade County 4 - 1

[Boonie]

Wouldn't you have about a similar number of teams with dismal records every year? This doesn't seem that out of line to me.

[EKUAlum05]

Wouldn't you have about a similar number of teams with dismal records every year? This doesn't seem that out of line to me.

There will always be bad teams.... there has to be bad teams..it is statistical.

Where I am arguing the problem lies is with the middle of the pack schools. These are the teams who beat the bad teams, but when they play the good teams they get destroyed as well.

As I said, it used to be you had the good teams..the middle of the pack teams..and then the bad teams...

Now you still have the good teams but they have gotten stronger

Your middle of the pack teams are bad teams

Your bad teams are awful teams.

Let me give some examples:
Montgomery County- 2-3.. but their 3 losses were blowouts

Harrison County- 2-4.. same story except one of their losses was a close loss to Montgomery Co

Taylor County- 3-2..but absolutely shelled against the two bets teams they played

E'town- 5-1... but their wins are against awful teams in a convincing manner and they were crushed against the lone quality team they played.

East Ridge- 4-2..see above about Etown...dominated by a mediocre Hurley, VA and dismantled by 1A Fairview


Paris- 4-1... their lone loss was to Shelby Valley who is not a very good team at all...yet they obliterate the other teams they play. If/when Paris plays a Beechwood or Frankfort they will get beat by 5 TD's.


^^^^^^^^^^^^

THIS...is what I am talking about, and what I think the OP was intending... in year's past your 3-2, 4-1 teams would at least be quality teams..they may lose by 3 TD's to the good teams, but they would be competitive.. but now these teams are getting beaten by 7-8 TD's when they play someone good. Meanwhile, they play the "bad" teams who are 1-4, 0-5 and then they turn around and beat them by 8 TD's

[Fly Like a Duck]

^^ E-town is very solid and only going to get better IMO. They got shut out by South Warren, which has dominated everybody, but their 20+ point victory of 5A Bullitt Central was very impressive IMO.

Thing is; E-town is only going to get better each of the next few seasons. They are highly dominated by a VERY talented Sophomore class, including their stud RB, Burneil Cecil. Remember the name.

[Fly Like a Duck]

^However, I agree whole heartedly about the point of your last reply.

[Boonie]

Yeah, I can see that. The good teams have become a lot better, but there are fewer of them. There are not many teams that are good year after year (Trinity, Highlands, Beechwood, Sheldon Clark, etc). It does seem that when a good team emerges from an otherwise faltering program, those teams compete but don't dominate (Johnson Central comes to mind).

[EKUAlum05]

Yeah, I can see that. The good teams have become a lot better, but there are fewer of them. There are not many teams that are good year after year (Trinity, Highlands, Beechwood, Sheldon Clark, etc). It does seem that when a good team emerges from an otherwise faltering program, those teams compete but don't dominate (Johnson Central comes to mind).

Out of the curiosity why do you have Sheldon Clark included with Trinity, Highlands, and Beechwood? HAHA Not really the team I would put amongst the elites especially considering the past 4 or 5 seasons

[maximus73]

I coached youth football for 6 years and even back in late 90s and early 2000s . Had some very good teams. The greatest challenge was dealing with the parents. Start of the season I would always have a parent meeting The number 1 rule was cuss me all you want, but never do it in front of the kids,or take your kid home. we usually had 40 kids or more every year and had many undefeted seasons.There is a joint responsibility between coaches and parents to help those kids be good as a team. I watched some of the best atheletes go on to middle school and be succesful. Then a coaching change in HS with loosing seasons , some of the kids ended transfering to schools that were better coached and some got dishearted and quit the sport they loved . With all that said : I have learned that coaching controls the destiny of a team and good parental support has to be there thru the good and bad times. Think of it this way, you have a great place to work then you end up with a horrible boss, then what happens on the job. A good coach will take what he's got and build with it ,and you will be able to see it.

[BigVMan23]

And could you not pick any other year and see the same thing? There are bad teams every year and good teams every year. Maybe on your list a few names might change, but I would think it looks a lot like that most years. Fulton Co and City, Phelps, Berea...I mean these programs don't usually win much anyway (not 100% sure about Berea) and would probably show up most any year on a "lost a lot of games" list. Then add your teams who are having an off or not typical bad year, happens to most everyone sooner or later, and you have a list just as long as this one most any year.

[maximus73]

:notworthyA lot of life lessons come out the game of football. To all coaches and parents envolved with the development of young men ,they should be taught respect, honor, and dignity. And how to be competitive the right way,and how to be a team player I'm 55 years old and still remember my coaches words and his actions and still apply them today . I was blessed by having some good coaches and passed it right on thru to my kids.and that makes a strong football culture. I would say you could ask FTH and they would agree.

[RunItUpTheGut]

5A teams
Woodford County 1 - 4
East Jessamine 1 - 4
Grant County 1 - 4
Apollo 1 - 4
Barren County 1 - 5
Jeffersontown 0 - 5
Whitley County 0 - 6
Logan County 0 - 6
Southwestern 0 - 6
North Hardin 0 - 6

In Whitleys defense, Im 29 years old, and I wasnt born the last time they started 0-6.

[Pulp Fiction]

4A teams with 1 or 0 wins.
Western 1 - 4
Rockcastle County 1 - 5
Rowan County 1 - 5
Waggener 0 - 5
Valley 0 - 5
Fairdale 0 - 5
Breckinridge County 0 - 6
Hopkins County Central 0 - 6
Boyd County 0 - 6
Atherton 0 - 6

4A teams with 1 loss or undefeated.
Highlands 6 - 0
Boyle County 6 - 0
Johnson Central 5 - 0
Owensboro 5 - 1
Collins 4 - 1
Russell County 4 - 1

In Class 4A, Out of the 37 teams...
17 teams have a loosing record (0-6, 0-5, 1-5, 1-4, 2-4, 2-3)
5 teams are .500 (3-3)
15 teams have a winning record (4-2, 4-1, 5-1, 6-0)

[khsgamenight]

Yeah, I can see that. The good teams have become a lot better, but there are fewer of them. There are not many teams that are good year after year (Trinity, Highlands, Beechwood, Sheldon Clark, etc). It does seem that when a good team emerges from an otherwise faltering program, those teams compete but don't dominate (Johnson Central comes to mind).

Like EKU, I am also wondering why Sheldon Clark is listed among the teams that are "good year after year". Also, can you explain further your comment about Johnson Central?

[mysonis55]

Alright, I am going to use this one example as an attempt to make you guys realize just how crazy these arguments are about the football today versus yesterday and even about the 4 classes versus 6 classes. I hope this one post can completely shut down this type of talk for the future. I know it won't, but that is my hope.

What I did was go back on KHSAA to the 1998 1a state championship game. No I didn't do it because I wanted that year. It certainly didn't end the way I wanted it to. But it is the furthest I could go back on the KHSAA site. It also is in the 4 class system. If this won't get though to you doubters, nothing will.

The two teams that played in the 1a state championship was Mayfield vs Middlesboro. This was at the old Cardinal stadium in Louisville. Middlesboro was the champs in everyway that day. Now this is how there schedules went for the year. Look at the blowouts. Look at the records of the opposing teams. I think you will see they compare the same as today's.

Mayfield Cardinals 14-1 (state runners up)
Opponent**********************score****************record
Marshall Co********************17-7*****************12-2
Hopkinsville********************20-14****************5-6
Graves Co**********************37-6*****************2-8
Belleville Althoff, Il***************24-0*****************unk
Paducah Tilghman****************14-6****************8-4
Fulton Co***********************55-0****************8-4
Milan, Tn***********************19-7****************unk
Murray*************************41-7****************7-4
Fulton City**********************49-0****************0-10
Ballard Mem*********************44-7****************4-6
Trigg Co************************67-20***************1-10
Murray*************************38-7****************7-4
Crittendon Co********************57-6****************11-2
Campbellsville********************38-6****************13-1
Middlesboro**********************6-27****************14-1


Middlesboro 14-1 state champions

Breathitt Co**********************46-24***************11-3
North Laurel**********************52-0****************3-8
Bell Co***************************18-21***************10-2
Evarts****************************57-0***************0-10
Williamsburg**********************42-8****************3-7
Harlan***************************65-0****************5-6
Lynn Camp***********************29-13***************8-4
Cumberland***********************58-0***************4-7
Corbin***************************45-25***************8-3
Pineville**************************58-7****************4-6
South Floyd***********************49-8****************5-6
Hazard***************************50-12***************8-4
Pikeville**************************78-34***************10-3
Beechwood************************29-13**************12-1
Mayfield**************************27-6****************14-1

By the way 64, were you a fan of Williamsburg when they were 3-7. Or was that before you adopted them.

[PooperScooper]

Bad football is here and its always has been and its always going to be here. The numbers and records that have been reported in this thread are probably not that different from years past at this time of the season. Names change but the numbers are probably similar I would suspect.

[Pulp Fiction]

Just saw on WMYT that another coal company is shutting down this December.

"Workers at the Pontiki mining complex in Martin County have been told the surface mine and coal prep plant will close by the end of the year. Alliance Resource Partners says its subsidiary, Excel Mining issued WARN notices to employees on Friday, according to a news release from the company. The mining complex employs approximately 142 workers"

Thats a blow to Martin Co., Johnson Co., Floyd Co..... and probably more around the area.

No jobs + Families moving to find work = Low student numbers & Low numbers in athletics.

[Leonidas]

Sorry to hear that Pulp Fiction, but I expect to hear it more and more nowadays.

To the gentlemen pulling out the records of teams over the past year...you guys are missing the point.

It's the caliber of play that has dropped significantly and wins/losses isn't gonna show that. In fact, there is no known stastic that can determine the exact dropoff in overall talent and the caliber of play in high school sports.

But we all see it, we know why its going on, but just like mining jobs being taken there really isn't nothing we can do to change it.

[mysonis55]

I really don't see that at all. The kids are bigger, faster and stronger. Look at the video Wburg had of that little kid squatting 500+ this year. Look at their speeds overall. Guys you are seeing what you want to see. The truth is they could put our old slow big lines in the past out their with our old coaching philosophy and put the new bunch out there with their spread and they would run us to death. Wake up and smell the coffee gentlemen.

[mysonis55]

I will give you another perfect example of that. We have a certain nameless person that went to school here at Mayfield years ago. He started on the line. Very big man, but heavy. He went on to play college ball, I think for a full 4 years. He has a son in our system now that is built just like him and probably is a little faster. The kid is smart as well and in the old days would have been a perfect fit in the line. In todays system though, he barely gets any playing time in a blowout game by the jv. The reason is not that he is any worse than his father, because he may very well be better. The reason is that this type of body does not fit in the current high speed, no huddle, wide splits type offense. That is the facts gentlemen. That does not mean the kids are any worse, it is just a very different game these days.

[E's Army]

mysonis55 is right. Players are bigger faster and stronger now. Coaching staffs have become larger and training facilities are better. The county schools have become much better with the influx of KERA money. Independants are not nearly as dominant. Athletes have become more spread out as the county schools have facilities and support to compete. Whitley County no longer only has one assistant like they did before KERA. There are more and more small colleges in the state playing football. These colleges have produced coaches who are much more ready to coach. Cumberlands, Union, Pikeville and Lindsay Wilson are producing very good young coaches. Coaching staffs are full of young men who have played college rather than just high school.

[insideinfo]

Adding on to what EKU said, I think this is going to be a case of the rich getting richer. Teams such as Belfry, Pikeville, Hazard, Johnson Central, etc...will only get stronger as other area teams see a decline in their programs. The quality players are not going to want to play for teams that are getting spanked week in and week out. I believe we will begin to see a lot of transfers at the middle school level to avoid the KHSAA High School transfer rule. Johnson County and Belfry have dominated Middle School Football over the past few years, bringing home state championships. I expect the transfers to begin and increase as the other programs continue to slide.

Your spot on, if the administration will support the programs you do not have to recruit they will come everybody wants to be associated with a winner.

[mysonis55]

You know we are getting ready for playoffs when we have to resort to talking about the levels of play now days. Once the playoffs start everyone will be so excited that this kind of talk will hopefully die down. That is until someone on here has their team get spanked. Then we will start to hear it again.

[Leonidas]

I really don't see that at all. The kids are bigger, faster and stronger. Look at the video Wburg had of that little kid squatting 500+ this year. Look at their speeds overall. Guys you are seeing what you want to see. The truth is they could put our old slow big lines in the past out their with our old coaching philosophy and put the new bunch out there with their spread and they would run us to death. Wake up and smell the coffee gentlemen.

I'd say that too if my son was in high school and I wanted to believe it.

Facts is my son is in pre-school and unless things change he'll be attending a school that relishes in appeasing to the masses and not challenging kids to better themselves athletically or academically.

Bigger, faster, stronger? You couldn't come up with anything more cliche?

You see the rich getting richer, and are happy with it because you can't see that the only reason the rich are looking richer is because the poor are getting poorer.