Bluegrassrivals

Am I the only one who noticed that in all of the games played in KY this week, all most 50% of the games were blowouts. That is a lot of bad football

Start of district play for many.

I hear this talk every year here lately. Here is what I see going on. We in Ky are going through a phase where teams are converting from old school 3 yards and a cloud of dust and then huddle up and run the clock into the spread no huddle. As we are doing this, we have certain programs that are very reluctant to do this. There is a 2-4 year learning curve that goes into this. Another problem with it is if they don't adjust, then they usually don't understand exactly how to defend this. Then you have little schools that don't have enough players to run this without getting tired. Lastly, you simply get more plays and more scoring as a result of this type of offense taking less time off the clock.

mysonis55 Wrote:I hear this talk every year here lately. Here is what I see going on. We in Ky are going through a phase where teams are converting from old school 3 yards and a cloud of dust and then huddle up and run the clock into the spread no huddle. As we are doing this, we have certain programs that are very reluctant to do this. There is a 2-4 year learning curve that goes into this. Another problem with it is if they don't adjust, then they usually don't understand exactly how to defend this. Then you have little schools that don't have enough players to run this without getting tired. Lastly, you simply get more plays and more scoring as a result of this type of offense taking less time off the clock.

^This^

I think the past couple of years were average, but this year takes the cake.
I dont know ive ever seen this state so down in football across the board.
Even a lot of traditionally good programs are struggling.
Look no further than EKY where there are only 3 or 4 real contenders for a state title.

RunItUpTheGut Wrote:I think the past couple of years were average, but this year takes the cake.
I dont know ive ever seen this state so down in football across the board.
Even a lot of traditionally good programs are struggling.
Look no further than EKY where there are only 3 or 4 real contenders for a state title.

I don't even see 3 or 4.

Do-double-gg Wrote:I don't even see 3 or 4.

Let me rephrase that to I think there 3 or 4 teams that could reach the title game.

RunItUpTheGut Wrote:Let me rephrase that to I think there 3 or 4 teams that could reach the title game.

Gut it is as bad as I have seen it across the mountains with the exception of a team or two

You're watching the kids who grew up in the "everybody gets a trophy" phase of little league sports in high school now.

Bottom line is they're just not groomed to be as competitive as kids were in the past and I only see it getting worse.

Leonidas Wrote:You're watching the kids who grew up in the "everybody gets a trophy" phase of little league sports in high school now.

Bottom line is they're just not groomed to be as competitive as kids were in the past and I only see it getting worse.

You are so right!!! When every kid gets a trophy, there is no score kept and there is rule that every kid has to play atleast 2 full quarters.


Earning a playing spot in the offseason isn't gonna sink in to these kids when they get in to high school. If that trend keeps going, we're gonna see alot of schools have lower than normal numbers.

In many cases, the parents are the problem. Today's players are told how great they are, that they should be starting and that the coach just doesn't like them. They are never told that they need to work harder. They expect everything to be handed to them. In many cases, attitudes are horrible...and that starts at home. Parents don't want their children to face any kind of adversity that could possibly make them better...not only as a football player, but as a person. This is the problem in our society as well...very few want to work hard...they expect things to be given to them.

I agree with khsgamenight. A lot Parents are ruining competitive sports these days. It seems as though most are afraid to be honest with their kids in fear of hurting their feelings. So they tell them how good they are no matter the outcome of a game. That is a parent trying to be a friend and not a parent. This is a huge contributor to the lack of numbers at most schools. Kids don't want to pay their dues and expect to play right away because they have always been told how good they are and since their parents coach them, they have always played. The problem isn't going away folks. It's hear to stay and it's probably gonna get a whole lot worse. What parents don't understand is that they are crippling their child. Life isn't easy and eventually the cream rises to the top. If kids don't know how to deal with failure and don't understand hard work then they are gonna struggle in life.

Thats my soapbox for the day.

I can't speak for other areas..but in terms of EKY the tackling and general fundamentals of some teams are at a startling low level.

Two factors I think are a large part of the equation statewide that have some overlap:

1. Numbers are down. I simply think in this culture kids are choosing to forgo sports in real life for sports on a video game system. In addition to this, soccer is drawing more and more kids. I don't think a soccer program is ever going to be make or break, but if it takes away three kids per year that is 12 players off a HS roster. For your standard AA or AAA school with a 45-50 man roster you are now talking about a 35 man roster +- a couple kids. Now imagine each year you are losing two kids who simply choose to stay at home, that 35 man roster is now in the High 20's or very low 30's.

These are the teams who are creating the problem. Whereas in year's pas you had a clearly defined "Middle of the Pack"..now those teams are suddenly the bad teams and the former bad teams are simply awful.

2. Coaching Turnover. In the age of the internet, message boards, social media, and a "NOW" society it seems Coaching Turnover happens quicker than ever. Guys either get the axe only a couple seasons in, or the young up and coming coaches move to a "better" job. As a result you have Feeder Systems that basically are doing nothing more than sticking pads on kids. Offensive and Defensive systems are not being taught, continuity is not there, and kids bounce from position to position. As a result the quality of product moving up is watered down..which in turns leads to a weaker HS product, which in turn leads to even more Coaching Turnover. A vicious cycle.

Meanwhile, your upper crust programs and the programs "doing it right" distance themselves. They win.. and winning keeps numbers up and coaches employed. The Feeder System has time to generate crops of players as it is intended, the talent pool and depth of that pool remains constant. That is why you see the same teams every year it seems and why those are the teams blowing out teams they used to have competitive games against.

EKUAlum05 makes another valid point. There are many factors that lead to bad football. Let's face the facts and the fact is not many teams in EKY have had a lot of success. There isn't a whole lot of staying power so to say. In saying that I think one of the biggest hurdles to success is learning how to be successful. That comes with your point. Coaches gotta stay and the kids gotta play and learn. Not a whole lot of learning going on. How many middle school teams do you see run an offense that consist of their biggest fastest player running toss plays for a zillion yards? Even though it's apparent that when the kid goes to high school he will probably be a down lineman or linebacker. Things like that lead to garbage football.

Reading this almost makes me feel sorry for you guys in the east. I said almost. I don't wanna help yall beat us or anything. I am reading this and wondering how yall are talking about 35-45 kids in 2a or 3a over there. We are 1a and have 59 dressed out. I think we will have a few more back next year. We have a few freshmen this year that didn't like getting hit by the big boys. I think they may return next year. I expect our numbers to be more in the range of 65 next year, maybe more. I tell you as a parent how to take care of some of that stuff. I have always had my son play up against older and therefore more developed players. I work hard to let him know just how exciting it is to watch him play but also remind him regularly of things he needs to work on. There will be days when you get a little concerned that it may be too much for them. There are days when you see something happen that makes you totally excited. You have to believe in the kids and stick with it. Every time I think about whether or not I did the right things, I think back to one day when mine was 10 years old. I had him playing against (literally) high schoolers in baseball. He turned a triple play. Now, it was a little concerning when he came to the plate with a kid with little control throwing 80 mph but he took a few deep breaths and put the bat on the ball. He grew more in that summer than he ever has.

mysonis55 Wrote:Reading this almost makes me feel sorry for you guys in the east. I said almost. I don't wanna help yall beat us or anything. I am reading this and wondering how yall are talking about 35-45 kids in 2a or 3a over there. We are 1a and have 59 dressed out. I think we will have a few more back next year. We have a few freshmen this year that didn't like getting hit by the big boys. I think they may return next year. I expect our numbers to be more in the range of 65 next year, maybe more. I tell you as a parent how to take care of some of that stuff. I have always had my son play up against older and therefore more developed players. I work hard to let him know just how exciting it is to watch him play but also remind him regularly of things he needs to work on. There will be days when you get a little concerned that it may be too much for them. There are days when you see something happen that makes you totally excited. You have to believe in the kids and stick with it. Every time I think about whether or not I did the right things, I think back to one day when mine was 10 years old. I had him playing against (literally) high schoolers in baseball. He turned a triple play. Now, it was a little concerning when he came to the plate with a kid with little control throwing 80 mph but he took a few deep breaths and put the bat on the ball. He grew more in that summer than he ever has.

I am talking about your run of the mill 2A/3A team. The teams who are not your programs you immediately think of...in other words the programs who are getting beat bad when they play the good teams.

Mayfield is the exception. Much like a Belfry, Pikeville, or the like in EKY..the teams who are traditionally strong will maintain good numbers. Think of teams like a Webster County, Crittenden County. Hart Co, or a Metcalfe County.

In year's past these are teams who could maintain decent numbers and were typically competitive teams, even if they were losing. Now these are teams who when they play a "good" team get crushed by a running clock. Even still, then they play a Todd Central or a Trimble County and they put a running clock on them.

I think the worst has yet to come for the mountain teams. Not only are the numbers on the decline due to the reasons mentioned above but with the decline in the coal industry I think you will start to see more and more families leaving the area to find work.

I wouldn't put Crittendon in that category. They are just very young right now. They will be tough in 1-2 years and I don't think they will have a numbers problem. The only ones I can think of like that around here is Fulton City. I think they have around half or more of all the kids they have in high school dressing though.

redleg Wrote:I think the worst has yet to come for the mountain teams. Not only are the numbers on the decline due to the reasons mentioned above but with the decline in the coal industry I think you will start to see more and more families leaving the area to find work.

5 more years and I would venture to say several 'mountain' teams will drop football for that reason.

BobcatForever Wrote:Gut it is as bad as I have seen it across the mountains with the exception of a team or two

I agree.
Worst year of football ive ever seen in this area.

Leonidas Wrote:You're watching the kids who grew up in the "everybody gets a trophy" phase of little league sports in high school now.

Bottom line is they're just not groomed to be as competitive as kids were in the past and I only see it getting worse.

Agree with this as well.
Too soft.
Screw the mercy rule, screw the rules about hitting, just play the game.
People like hard hits and tons of TD's, and all we do is call it a tie and pat little johnny on the back for his 3/24 passing for 7 yards and 6 picks.

EKUAlum05 Wrote:I can't speak for other areas..but in terms of EKY the tackling and general fundamentals of some teams are at a startling low level.

Two factors I think are a large part of the equation statewide that have some overlap:

1. Numbers are down. I simply think in this culture kids are choosing to forgo sports in real life for sports on a video game system. In addition to this, soccer is drawing more and more kids. I don't think a soccer program is ever going to be make or break, but if it takes away three kids per year that is 12 players off a HS roster. For your standard AA or AAA school with a 45-50 man roster you are now talking about a 35 man roster +- a couple kids. Now imagine each year you are losing two kids who simply choose to stay at home, that 35 man roster is now in the High 20's or very low 30's.

These are the teams who are creating the problem. Whereas in year's pas you had a clearly defined "Middle of the Pack"..now those teams are suddenly the bad teams and the former bad teams are simply awful.

2. Coaching Turnover. In the age of the internet, message boards, social media, and a "NOW" society it seems Coaching Turnover happens quicker than ever. Guys either get the axe only a couple seasons in, or the young up and coming coaches move to a "better" job. As a result you have Feeder Systems that basically are doing nothing more than sticking pads on kids. Offensive and Defensive systems are not being taught, continuity is not there, and kids bounce from position to position. As a result the quality of product moving up is watered down..which in turns leads to a weaker HS product, which in turn leads to even more Coaching Turnover. A vicious cycle.

Meanwhile, your upper crust programs and the programs "doing it right" distance themselves. They win.. and winning keeps numbers up and coaches employed. The Feeder System has time to generate crops of players as it is intended, the talent pool and depth of that pool remains constant. That is why you see the same teams every year it seems and why those are the teams blowing out teams they used to have competitive games against.

Once again EKU, you nailed it.
Very well said.

Adding on to what EKU said, I think this is going to be a case of the rich getting richer. Teams such as Belfry, Pikeville, Hazard, Johnson Central, etc...will only get stronger as other area teams see a decline in their programs. The quality players are not going to want to play for teams that are getting spanked week in and week out. I believe we will begin to see a lot of transfers at the middle school level to avoid the KHSAA High School transfer rule. Johnson County and Belfry have dominated Middle School Football over the past few years, bringing home state championships. I expect the transfers to begin and increase as the other programs continue to slide.

All this talk kills me.. Look at your mountain teams... Dominance is changing because of two reasons 1 coaching changes 2. The graduation of some stud players... Football in this state is fine front runners this year are just as good as past year they just maybe different squads than everyone is used to seeing... That makes me think the state is getting better as a whole.. That means coaches all over the state are getting better at using the talent they have period! Just because your team is down and someone else is better doesn't mean the state is down...

I agree that there are some bad programs. I do agree that it doesn't seem to be a statewide issue though. We consistently beat out of state teams. Fulton City seems to have to go out of state every year to get a win. Trinity seems to be doing well over the past few years against out of state competition. Fairview, Williamsburg and Raceland area all getting wins out of state. I think the real difference for most old timers is the speed of the game. Back in the day of the old school running game a good team ate up clock and a big game would see them scoring 28-35 points. Now we use a lot less time and a good day is 49-63 points. Of course with that kind of scoring there is going to be a lot bigger margins of victory. That is what is being missed.

sstack Wrote:Am I the only one who noticed that in all of the games played in KY this week, all most 50% of the games were blowouts. That is a lot of bad football

Hey sstack, serious question here. Do you have any insight for the upcoming classification for the 2015-2018? Programs that are staying, moving up or down. Thx

Telling ya where it's bad, and I've said this all my life and will continue to say it, but in these rural/small, "county" schools. The worst thing to happen to Kentucky football was when all of the non football playing small town, independent schools decided to merge in with the ONE independent (usually the county seat/biggest town in the county) school in the county that play football.

Many of these small, rural, farming communities didnt care about football 40+ years ago and beyond, and they still don't.

For your 'average' or below average, run of the mill 2A/3A schools; a lot of them are actually 1A football programs in terms of where they draw their talent/participation.

1A and 6A are the places to be. Why?

In 1A, so what if you only have 25-35 kids that play.....so does 90% of everybody you play (Mayfield, Beechwood, Fairview might be the exceptions every year).

In 6A...no you aren't probably going to win it all unless you are one of the big green monsters, but guess what? 90% of the programs across the state, in all classes haven't won a title and they never will. If you are a 6A school, you at least have the BODIES, money and resources to compete. You and everybody else has 75+ kids in your program in grades 9-12.

There is such a huge gap in 2A-5A for the most part, and the vast majority of it IMO is due to demographics. P.C or not, it's fact. White/Black, City/Rural, large population/small population, farming rural community/non farming rural community (the mountains).

Another factor that I believe is hindering some of these rural area schools (2A/3A) is soccer. There aren't enough kids (athletic kids to support both). I was at a practice the other day of a struggling HS team (that had a very good year last year I might add), and the soccer team was practicing next to the football team....I look out and the soccer team has 20-25 DB/WR type kids. Now, if there wasn't soccer, would all 20-25 of them be playing football? No. However, I bet 5-10 of them would be and that makes a HUGE impact on schools this size.

To add to that, if you are a 1A-3A school, especially a rural school ("county" in your schools name), you better have a decent African American population. Why? Because they aren't playing soccer (you might have one or two here and there). Yes...I said it.

1A teams
Allen Central 1 - 4
Jenkins 1 - 4
Fulton City 1 - 4
Berea 1 - 5
Fulton County 0 - 4
Campbellsville 0 - 5
Harlan 0 - 5
Phelps 0 - 5

2A teams
Holy Cross (Covington) 1 - 4
Fort Knox 1 - 4
Newport 1 - 4
Owen County 1 - 5
Lexington Christian 1 - 5
Hancock County 0 - 5
Todd County Central 0 - 5
Trimble County 0 - 5 - 0
Thomas Nelson 0 - 6