[PantherPride68]

Oh i have nothing but respect for Hillard too, but Im just telling it like it is, if Phillip Haywood was coaching those Pikeville teams in the 80s, you all would have had more than 3. Myself and two other brothers played against Pikeville, in the 80s and 90s and you all can say what you want, but you cant coach size, and you cant coach speed not including those transfers from hell you all inherited. Hillard was the luckiest coach in the state. Pikeville's athletes in the 80s were superior than every other team in that class, and he should have had at LEAST 2, maybe 3 more. Haywood gets more from his team than Hillard ever did.

What did Belfry win before they dropped down a class, and I believe haywoods had some unholy transfers himself over the years and still didnt win state until they dropped a class and you cant tell theyre not a 3a school to this day. I agree you cant coach size or speed but I cant ever remeber a pikeville team being bigger than belfry a few were but not many if any, so spare me the whole "Haywood hasnt had as much to work with" argument. Plain and simple A great coach cant do anything without great assitants and great players and Hillard and Haywood have been blessed with both. Without Bill Allara and Steve Mickey, we wouldnt even be having this conversation.

[i-dono]

Dudley Hilton, or Hillard Howard.

[TidesHoss32]

Well, Hillard proved this year what happens when you throw some competition at him. Stick him in a tough district, with some better competition, and 4-6 is what happens. Hillard had the best facilities to work with (again), he had talent all over the field, he had size, speed, not to mention anything he asked for, and won 4 games. I will bet you whatever you wanna bet, YOU NAME IT, that next year he dont win even that many. Hillard IS in 3A right now, like Belfry was, and my point was proven this past year. He didnt win there last year, he's not gonna win there next year, he'll never win in 3A. But, he'll step down soon because he doesnt want his glory days to be tarnished. Wait and see, LCC wont win 3 games next year. No, Belfry didnt win any state titles until they dropped down a class, but they were competitve, much more than this team. And this past team had more talent than ANY of those 3A Belfry teams. Like i said, i am not trying to start an arguement here, but you cant tell me that Pikeville didnt have superior athletes ALL OVER THE FIELD, than anybody in class A.

What did Belfry win before they dropped down a class, and I believe haywoods had some unholy transfers himself over the years and still didnt win state until they dropped a class and you cant tell theyre not a 3a school to this day. I agree you cant coach size or speed but I cant ever remeber a pikeville team being bigger than belfry a few were but not many if any, so spare me the whole "Haywood hasnt had as much to work with" argument. Plain and simple A great coach cant do anything without great assitants and great players and Hillard and Haywood have been blessed with both. Without Bill Allara and Steve Mickey, we wouldnt even be having this conversation.

[i-dono]

So your sayin John Derosset, Mike Holcomb, and Kenny Roarck arn't good coaches; two have state championships and Cocah D. has played in one...also, and this is my biggest argument...There is no way that P.Heywood has anymore than 25-30 wins on Coach Howard, and incase you don't realize this tide.....Hillard Hasn't been a head coach since about 95'....he would have won ATLEAST an average of 6 games a season, so thats 60 wins coach Howard has missed out on (IMO he would have won more than 60 games in 10 years). Another point is: Coach Howard is younger, and hasn't been coaching as long as Heywood (even if you count the 10 year layoff). If I'm not mistaken coach Howard told me, and I may be wrong, that Heywood had only beat him like 4 or 6 times, so I'm taking it that Howard has the Head to Head advantage over Heywood. Also...Hillard has Won 3 count em' 3 STATE CHAMPIONSHIPS, and coached in 6!!!

Needless to say...advantage Howard

As for last season with Letcher centeral.....If your as bright as you think you are, you would take into consideration that he had players from POWERHOUSE teams such as WHITESBURG, LETCHER CO., FLEMING-NEON, and a few transfers from the all-mighty.....JENKINS!!!...I don't see how Letcher Centeral didn't win state....heck, they had more talent than Bell, and Rock....hahahaha, I can't go on much more....lol...IMO 4 wins is alot with what he had...you can't make a sanwhich (I know, I can't spell) without bread, and bologna!

Give him a few years, and he'll be compeditave!! I'll bet the farm on that one!

[TidesHoss32]

ok genius, wanna state some facts? Name ONE transfer from Jenkins that materialized into anything. And another thing smart guy, he also had some help from THE TRUE POWERHOUSE BREATHITT COUNTY. I never said anything about having the most wins, the thread (in case you cant read) is who would you want to turn around or build your program. Im saying this. Phillip Haywood coached Belfry (yeah, all players from one school) in 3A (the same class LCC is in), and done much better than LCC in his worst year. Grant you, it was Hillards first year, and he hasnt had time to build, but the transfers came (imagine that) and LCC still didnt produce. And yeah, ill be right here watching that future build, getting pounded every year by Bell, Rockcastle Co, among others, while your main rival is 1-9 Perry Central. Hillard's not pounding Phelps, Jenkins, Neon, and Virgie anymore. Wish all you like, but youve witnessed the future, pal. Hillard's gonna step down in less than three years. Three seasons of 4 or less wins, and he's gone. And for the record, Ill take those three coaches you named over him too. And instead of blowing out Estill County, in three years, when you all are contending for state, hope that Belfry isnt on your shedule. By the way, go make YOURSELF a sandwich, and pull out a dictionary and use it when you post these threads:thumb:

So your sayin John Derosset, Mike Holcomb, and Kenny Roarck arn't good coaches; two have state championships and Cocah D. has played in one...also, and this is my biggest argument...There is no way that P.Heywood has anymore than 25-30 wins on Coach Howard, and incase you don't realize this tide.....Hillard Hasn't been a head coach since about 95'....he would have won ATLEAST an average of 6 games a season, so thats 60 wins coach Howard has missed out on (IMO he would have won more than 60 games in 10 years). Another point is: Coach Howard is younger, and hasn't been coaching as long as Heywood (even if you count the 10 year layoff). If I'm not mistaken coach Howard told me, and I may be wrong, that Heywood had only beat him like 4 or 6 times, so I'm taking it that Howard has the Head to Head advantage over Heywood. Also...Hillard has Won 3 count em' 3 STATE CHAMPIONSHIPS, and coached in 6!!!
Needless to say...advantage Howard

As for last season with Letcher centeral.....If your as bright as you think you are, you would take into consideration that he had players from POWERHOUSE teams such as WHITESBURG, LETCHER CO., FLEMING-NEON, and a few transfers from the all-mighty.....JENKINS!!!...I don't see how Letcher Centeral didn't win state....heck, they had more talent than Bell, and Rock....hahahaha, I can't go on much more....lol...IMO 4 wins is alot with what he had...you can't make a sanwhich (I know, I can't spell) without bread, and bologna!

Give him a few years, and he'll be compeditave!! I'll bet the farm on that one!

[CAVSCHICK33]

Lol!

[i-dono]

ok genius, wanna state some facts? Name ONE transfer from Jenkins that materialized into anything.:thumb:

You just made my point; What do you expect him to do with the people he had...incase you couldn't tell I was being sarcastic...was he supposed to win a State title....he is in one of, if the not the toughest 3A district in the state with a first year team, and I don't have to mention the 3 schools again. But if Heywood was the coach LCC would have thumped Bell, and Rock, then went on to no less than the simi-finals...be real there wasn't much more he could have done....there wasn't much more Steve Spurrier could have done. It's ok to set your goals high, but you can't ride a bike unless you have one....

As for the transfers from Bretthet co. There was one Eli Waren....who had a good season!

BTW I told you I couldn't spell!

[BelfryJustice]

This thread is being watched and needs to stay on topic.

[TidesHoss32]

i wasnt being sarcastic, now, name the players from Jenkins? Here's an idea, quit blaming your 4-6 season on not having enough transfers to beat anybody worth anything. That is a 3A school, so dont give me this "he didnt have anything to work with" garbage. And Haywood is set just fine at Belfry.

You just made my point; What do you expect him to do with the people he had...incase you couldn't tell I was being sarcastic...was he supposed to win a State title....he is in one of, if the not the toughest 3A district in the state with a first year team, and I don't have to mention the 3 schools again. But if Heywood was the coach LCC would have thumped Bell, and Rock, then went on to no less than the simi-finals...be real there wasn't much more he could have done....there wasn't much more Steve Spurrier could have done. It's ok to set your goals high, but you can't ride a bike unless you have one....

As for the transfers from Bretthet co. There was one Eli Waren....who had a good season!

BTW I told you I couldn't spell!

[i-dono]

THERE ARE NO 'PLAYERS' FROM JENKINS!!!!!! There are a couple of guys who transfered to LCC and they don't even step on the field! For the last time I am going to say that WHITESBURG, LETCHER CO., OR FLEMING-NEON were NEVER FOOTBALL POWERHOUSES!!! They had a combined 2004 record of 3-30. Think about that bro...there has to be a brain in your head...Howard had VERY LITTLE talent!!! Noone, Heywood included could have won more games! Did you expect him to beat Bell, and Rock? There isn't no way he could have! It would have had to been an act of GOD!


BTW Being from Belfry you can't complain about transfers....Doug Howard LIVES in West Virginia, and David Jones Transfered from a wv school. There is no argument that Belfry WOULD NOT have won 1, let alone 2 state titles without those two! I guess Belfry should thank THE GREAT STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA for two KENTUCKY state Championships!!!! erved:

Give Hillard two like that and watch him go!

[vince]

Coach D for p-burg is a very good coach.Hillbilly i love the way you turn things around, it was you that said on another post how Dudley had things fall in his favor in the playoffs( the rain and all) helped him win it and you did say that.DRUGS, NO THANKS, and quite frankly i dont appriciate your comment about that at all, it's out of line and uncalled for.You go find someone else on this post who will say Dudley stepped into a good situation being in a dist. with lex.cath, Danville and Boyle co.(besides yourself) and keep your little drug comments to yourself, it's a football post.

[PantherBlitz42]

Mike Jackson and Staff, and Hillard Howard, hands down

[Matt_Knee]

I'm a big Pro-Matney kinda guy..hence the name..
Matney is an awesome coach, i'd have to go with him..

and he's an even better wrestling coach by far, so you get more bang for your buck with him..a great football coach and a legendary wrestling coach

[KentuckyHillBilly5321]

Coach D for p-burg is a very good coach.Hillbilly i love the way you turn things around, it was you that said on another post how Dudley had things fall in his favor in the playoffs( the rain and all) helped him win it and you did say that.DRUGS, NO THANKS, and quite frankly i dont appriciate your comment about that at all, it's out of line and uncalled for.You go find someone else on this post who will say Dudley stepped into a good situation being in a dist. with lex.cath, Danville and Boyle co.(besides yourself) and keep your little drug comments to yourself, it's a football post.

How did I turn things around? By telling the truth?

Give me a break. My suggestion to you would be to do a little more studying in regard to the subject.

If I remember correctly--there was a person on here who comfirmed my story (try page 1 or 2).

While we are on the subject of not appreciating certain things--I don't appreciate your uninformed, biased, closed minded posts that are so far out there--that it looks like you are arguing with me for the fun of it.

As I said in another post--and I could careless how arrogant or conceited it sounds, I will put my football knowledge against yours anyday of the week and twice on Sunday. I've got the hardware buddy. And I earned it. If you think that I don't have a clue about the Bourbon County situation--all you need to do is listen.

FreakNasty is a member of this board and a Bourbon County graduate--lets sit back and wait for his opinion on the subject . . . . .

Just be prepared to admit that you are WRONG.

[KentuckyHillBilly5321]

Agreed about Dudley, one of my buddies from College played for BC when they won it, and they said they knew that class was going to be the best they ever had.

VINCE--PLEASE TRY AND PAY ATTENTION . . . . . .

Or--maybe Dudley the genius wasn't as smart as the kids in the program were! Ha, ha, ha!

[TidesHoss32]

hey genius, look at what YOU wrote, you said "they had players from neon, whitesburg, letcher....and a few transfers from almighty jenkins", and now you said there are no players. So which is it smart guy? You also are the one complaining that there wasnt any talent, which is a first considering thats a huge 3A school. And you wanna talk about Howards transfers during the championship years? COME ON, I KNOW your not going to throw that at me, because if you are, then you need to face your facts. Im not saying anything off the wall here, but Hillards transfers during the 80s and 90s were better than UK's recruiting classes (and NO I AM NOT SAYING HE RECRUITED, FOR THE RECORD), you need to wake up kid, you have no idea what your talking about in the least. So go ahead, FOR THE LAST TIME, say what you want, but LCC had quite a bit of talent, no, im not saying they should have won state, but they had enough talent to do better than they did. Brain in my head? Im pretty sure it works better than yours. Quit contradicting yourself and get your facts straight.

THERE ARE NO 'PLAYERS' FROM JENKINS!!!!!! There are a couple of guys who transfered to LCC and they don't even step on the field! For the last time I am going to say that WHITESBURG, LETCHER CO., OR FLEMING-NEON were NEVER FOOTBALL POWERHOUSES!!! They had a combined 2004 record of 3-30. Think about that bro...there has to be a brain in your head...Howard had VERY LITTLE talent!!! Noone, Heywood included could have won more games! Did you expect him to beat Bell, and Rock? There isn't no way he could have! It would have had to been an act of GOD!


BTW Being from Belfry you can't complain about transfers....Doug Howard LIVES in West Virginia, and David Jones Transfered from a wv school. There is no argument that Belfry WOULD NOT have won 1, let alone 2 state titles without those two! I guess Belfry should thank THE GREAT STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA for two KENTUCKY state Championships!!!! erved:

Give Hillard two like that and watch him go!

[TidesHoss32]

and by the way, im not from Belfry, im right here where Howard is now, so i get to see what he has to work with.

[vince]

Hardware, let's talk about hardware, I've got 2 state championship rings, How many you got playing for Conner? Your not nearly as smart as you think.Your a real smart guy putting Dudley Hilton down, but i guess you are from the triangle.Dudley the genius, in a sarcastic way. Man, hard to believe some guy from nothern ky. puttin Dudley down( it really figures now). I'm not impressed son with your knowledge or lack of and you summed it all up by your lack of knowlege calling Dudley Hilton, Dudley the genius in a sarcastic way. So you really can't be that smart or you really don't know football. Oh please don't get Freak nasty on me , GIVE ME A BREAK! That's like saying I'll get my dad to beat you up.I don't know Freak nasty but he sure don't look like a football guy to me. Don't really care what you say, anytime you talk about Dudley Hilton in a sarcastic manner, you don't know squat and you just showed it.
See it's really you just don't like coaches from eastern Ky., Im sure your really from Ohio anyways.

[KentuckyHillBilly5321]

Hardware, let's talk about hardware, I've got 2 state championship rings, How many you got playing for Conner? Your not nearly as smart as you think.Your a real smart guy putting Dudley Hilton down, but i guess you are from the triangle.Dudley the genius, in a sarcastic way. Man, hard to believe some guy from nothern ky. puttin Dudley down( it really figures now). I'm not impressed son with your knowledge or lack of and you summed it all up by your lack of knowlege calling Dudley Hilton, Dudley the genius in a sarcastic way. So you really can't be that smart or you really don't know football. Oh please don't get Freak nasty on me , GIVE ME A BREAK! That's like saying I'll get my dad to beat you up.I don't know Freak nasty but he sure don't look like a football guy to me. Don't really care what you say, anytime you talk about Dudley Hilton in a sarcastic manner, you don't know squat and you just showed it.
See it's really you just don't like coaches from eastern Ky., Im sure your really from Ohio anyways.

It is now official--(it took forever to realize it)--

YOU CAN'T READ.

I think that I have actually said that Dudley is a good coach--but he isn't as good as you try to say--if he was--then he would have more than 2 rings. I have personally worked for a coach who has found a way to win 8 (Thats right EIGHT). Big difference there genius.

What do other Eastern Kentucky coaches have to do with this discussion? Again--nothing. If you want to try to make this an EKY/NKY arguement--you are barking up the wrong tree. I have respect for any coach in this state that tries to win the right way--regardless of where they are from.

I don't think that playing on Thanksgiving or constantly watering down the field is an admirable way of dealing with any opponent--and honestly--it is a peak at the true character of the man. But let me tell you what it really is--CLASSLESS. If you want to continue to defend a man like that--go to it. I am not putting him down--I am POINTING OUT THE FACTS. He did not have enough faith in his own team to play the game straight up--so he decided to try to throw a team out of their routine by playing on Thanksgiving. Or--he was scared of dealing with the team speed of various teams in the playoffs--so he has the firetrucks water down the field all week. Again--that is SOOOOOO CLASSSSSY!

If that is what makes him such a good coach, please--by all means, KEEP HIM DOWN THERE. I would rather make an attempt to beat a team on the field as opposed to some of his slimy tricks. Ask any coach around the state--the description that you will get is CLASSLESS.

If you want to get absolutely technical about rings--I have 8. 2 from Beechwood, 6 from Conner (for track). Keep in mind--I got mine as an assistant coach (at Beechwood) and as a head coach (track at Conner). Hhmmmm . . . . . . 2 different sports, 8 rings, kind of makes you wonder . . . . . .

Again--I have a pretty good feeling that I know what I am doing. I don't need to justify myself to a person who can't even spell.

[Playboy5]

Great post KentuckyHillbilly5321! I am from Eastern Kentucky and I also agree that the action that was taken place by watering down the fields is VERY CLASSLESS! Why do that? I think FEAR is a very good reason! And the outcome of the game showed it! SPEED KILLS!

[TidesHoss32]

Now im not very good at math, but the last time I checked, 8 was 6 more than 2. lol

It is now official--(it took forever to realize it)--

YOU CAN'T READ.

I think that I have actually said that Dudley is a good coach--but he isn't as good as you try to say--if he was--then he would have more than 2 rings. I have personally worked for a coach who has found a way to win 8 (Thats right EIGHT). Big difference there genius.

What do other Eastern Kentucky coaches have to do with this discussion? Again--nothing. If you want to try to make this an EKY/NKY arguement--you are barking up the wrong tree. I have respect for any coach in this state that tries to win the right way--regardless of where they are from.

I don't think that playing on Thanksgiving or constantly watering down the field is an admirable way of dealing with any opponent--and honestly--it is a peak at the true character of the man. But let me tell you what it really is--CLASSLESS. If you want to continue to defend a man like that--go to it. I am not putting him down--I am POINTING OUT THE FACTS. He did not have enough faith in his own team to play the game straight up--so he decided to try to throw a team out of their routine by playing on Thanksgiving. Or--he was scared of dealing with the team speed of various teams in the playoffs--so he has the firetrucks water down the field all week. Again--that is SOOOOOO CLASSSSSY!

If that is what makes him such a good coach, please--by all means, KEEP HIM DOWN THERE. I would rather make an attempt to beat a team on the field as opposed to some of his slimy tricks. Ask any coach around the state--the description that you will get is CLASSLESS.

If you want to get absolutely technical about rings--I have 8. 2 from Beechwood, 6 from Conner (for track). Keep in mind--I got mine as an assistant coach (at Beechwood) and as a head coach (track at Conner). Hhmmmm . . . . . . 2 different sports, 8 rings, kind of makes you wonder . . . . . .

Again--I have a pretty good feeling that I know what I am doing. I don't need to justify myself to a person who can't even spell.

[ROCK*60*]

coach shawn hager he might have pissed me off a lot in the past but did a lot to win
pushed every one to go hard and we did every on e hard not just the startes

[BelfryJustice]

This thread is way off topic and needs to end here!