New ATV Law?

evillive · 02-04-2006, 12:26 AM

OU_Bruiser Wrote:Fletcher has ruined KY this laws is stupid i mean we don;t need laws tell us to protect are kids we know this or should and in this case they might aswell start rewriting the amendments....

this and the speed limit law changing can also be considered "feel good" laws since Fletcher has messed up so much ...

**CatDawg** · 02-04-2006, 01:42 AM

OK I can't believe that I've been against this. I must have been high when I started posting on this issue. I do hate the fact that this gives Law Enforcement another means to come on private property but then again I don't have anything to hide so come on over. Heck I know 99% of them anyway. But for a few hours I've totally forgotten my history and where I've been in my lifetime. See what happens when you totally change careers.

Six years ago I would have been totally been behind this but now I've been preaching against it. So I took some time tonight and thought a little more about this and other issues. It is private property but just because some parents in this world allow their kids to do things that can hurt them doesn't mean that we as responsible adults shouldn't do something to help protect those kids. The kids don't know what's best for their safety and thats why we need laws to protect them.

For those of you who don't know I have over 10 years of firefighting and EMS experience and yes I've seen my share of all types of accidents. If this law saves just 1 life then it is totally worth it. That 1 life just might be the next president. I know I hate the private property thing but look at it this way. Your kid that you make wear his or her helmet is now 15 years old and stays overnight with a friend or just ends up at a friends house. Even though you've told them over and over again to do the right thing he or she still has to deal with this thing called peer pressure. As we know peer pressure will sometimes cause the best kids to do the unthinkable. This time peer pressure gets your child to jump on a ATV with his friends just to ride around the farm or whatever. Now your not there and the other parents whom are good parents just don't seem any harm in allowing them to ride around without the helmet. Wouldn't you want that police officer that just happens to be driving by to stop and make the teenagers stop riding or put a helmet on. I know I sure would because a couple minutes later that little bit of fun could turn into a major head injury. Yes if they have an accident he or she could still be injuried or killed but I would rather them have every bit of safety equipment on as possible. How many people ever thought that it would happen to them or their loved one.

In closing I must tell on myself. We have a 4 wheeler and until recently we never made our kids wear a helmet around the house and back on our hill while riding with us. Why you ask because it always happens to someone else. Won't happen to me I'm to careful. No need for them to wear a helmet around here with me behind the controls I mean I won't do anything that could hurt my kids. Now how stupid was that I mean like I said above I've seen every type of injury and death you can think of but when it came to myself I allowed it. Do they wear them now heck yes just like we have always required them to wear seat belts even though I would never get in a car wreck on purpose. Sometimes we has humans do some stupid things and alot of the times its just because we don't think about the outcomes. So maybe just maybe this law will make a few people think.

Evillive for you and others this law isn't about you or your family its about the one down the street who needs that extra set of eyes watching over them.

evillive · 02-04-2006, 02:32 AM

CatDawg Wrote:OK I can't believe that I've been against this. I must have been high when I started posting on this issue. I do hate the fact that this gives Law Enforcement another means to come on private property but then again I don't have anything to hide so come on over. Heck I know 99% of them anyway. But for a few hours I've totally forgotten my history and where I've been in my lifetime. See what happens when you totally change careers.

Six years ago I would have been totally been behind this but now I've been preaching against it. So I took some time tonight and thought a little more about this and other issues. It is private property but just because some parents in this world allow their kids to do things that can hurt them doesn't mean that we as responsible adults shouldn't do something to help protect those kids. The kids don't know what's best for their safety and thats why we need laws to protect them.

For those of you who don't know I have over 10 years of firefighting and EMS experience and yes I've seen my share of all types of accidents. If this law saves just 1 life then it is totally worth it. That 1 life just might be the next president. I know I hate the private property thing but look at it this way. Your kid that you make wear his or her helmet is now 15 years old and stays overnight with a friend or just ends up at a friends house. Even though you've told them over and over again to do the right thing he or she still has to deal with this thing called peer pressure. As we know peer pressure will sometimes cause the best kids to do the unthinkable. This time peer pressure gets your child to jump on a ATV with his friends just to ride around the farm or whatever. Now your not there and the other parents whom are good parents just don't seem any harm in allowing them to ride around without the helmet. Wouldn't you want that police officer that just happens to be driving by to stop and make the teenagers stop riding or put a helmet on. I know I sure would because a couple minutes later that little bit of fun could turn into a major head injury. Yes if they have an accident he or she could still be injuried or killed but I would rather them have every bit of safety equipment on as possible. How many people ever thought that it would happen to them or their loved one.

In closing I must tell on myself. We have a 4 wheeler and until recently we never made our kids wear a helmet around the house and back on our hill while riding with us. Why you ask because it always happens to someone else. Won't happen to me I'm to careful. No need for them to wear a helmet around here with me behind the controls I mean I won't do anything that could hurt my kids. Now how stupid was that I mean like I said above I've seen every type of injury and death you can think of but when it came to myself I allowed it. Do they wear them now heck yes just like we have always required them to wear seat belts even though I would never get in a car wreck on purpose. Sometimes we has humans do some stupid things and alot of the times its just because we don't think about the outcomes. So maybe just maybe this law will make a few people think.

Evillive for you and others this law isn't about you or your family its about the one down the street who needs that extra set of eyes watching over them.

so my privacy and my rights should be violated because some idiot down the street cant control his child ... sorry but that doesn't fly with me .... i don't know about you but as a citizen, former marine, and a father I am tired of taking up the slack for a society which would rather police it self through laws and putting others in charge of simple things that could be taken care of with a little parental supervision....

you can be against this law and still supervise your children and make them wear a helmet millions of people do it every year ...

by your statement if a police officer drives by and sees a child smoking they should say something... it is against the law for children to buy and smoke cigarettes but they dont' say anything ... why .... it is a lose/lose situation for the police ...

this is a public vs. private debate ... i do not want the government in my home, bedroom, or family room... this is where it starts ... what is next ...

you can't pray in your homes ...
you can't drink in your homes ...
you can't watch porn in your homes ....

supervision is the issue

**CatDawg** · 02-04-2006, 02:47 AM

If my kids are doing something illegal especially something that could get them hurt then yes I would want them to do whatever to protect them. I agree supervision is the key but as I stated above your kid is at a friends and they allow them to do something that you wouldn't let them do wouldn't you want someone to have the ability to stop it if it was observed? Especially if it could save their life.

Lets see me and the wife get divorced and one of us decides to be the kids best friend while the other remains the parent which is the case in alot of these situations. For this post we'll say parent 1 wants to be the friend while parent 2 just wants to be a good parent. While the child is at parent 2's house he or she is made to follow rules one of which is wearing a helmet but then the child goes to parent 1's house where they make the rules and can do pretty much anything. One of the things allowed along with drinking and smoking is riding an ATV anyway they wish and without a helmet. I know if I'm parent 1 I would like to have a means to make that child wear a helmet even when I'm not around and that ability is the law that requires he or she does so. Just another way to protect my child.

I know where your coming from about private property and all but with this one when you really look at it as protecting a child its a no brainer. IMO and your entitled to your own at least for a few more years until as you would say that might change also.

OU_Bruiser · 02-04-2006, 02:49 AM

OK just a thought but there is a law saying you have to wear a helmet or be fined now but you can let your kids swim with out life jacket at the local pool or any other place don;t you think the cops should give them a ticket for not haveing some type of floatation device on same as the atv law...................This post is just for the ppl who agree with the new atv law

**CatDawg** · 02-04-2006, 02:50 AM

And as crazy as it seems I don't think it has become illegal for underage to smoke only to buy them. Like that makes any sense.

goldfish · 02-04-2006, 03:08 AM

Its stupid i guess they think because smoking does't kill you as quick as an atv or anything else its ok......but its not...

OU_Bruiser · 02-04-2006, 03:10 AM

Yeah i agree....its crazy

evillive · 02-04-2006, 12:40 PM

[QUOTE="CatDawg"]And as crazy as it seems I don't think it has become illegal for underage to smoke only to buy them. Like that makes any sense.[/QUOT

it is illegal for any one under the age of 18 to buy or POSESS tobacco products ...

evillive · 02-04-2006, 12:55 PM

CatDawg Wrote:If my kids are doing something illegal especially something that could get them hurt then yes I would want them to do whatever to protect them. I agree supervision is the key but as I stated above your kid is at a friends and they allow them to do something that you wouldn't let them do wouldn't you want someone to have the ability to stop it if it was observed? Especially if it could save their life.

Lets see me and the wife get divorced and one of us decides to be the kids best friend while the other remains the parent which is the case in alot of these situations. For this post we'll say parent 1 wants to be the friend while parent 2 just wants to be a good parent. While the child is at parent 2's house he or she is made to follow rules one of which is wearing a helmet but then the child goes to parent 1's house where they make the rules and can do pretty much anything. One of the things allowed along with drinking and smoking is riding an ATV anyway they wish and without a helmet. I know if I'm parent 1 I would like to have a means to make that child wear a helmet even when I'm not around and that ability is the law that requires he or she does so. Just another way to protect my child.

I know where your coming from about private property and all but with this one when you really look at it as protecting a child its a no brainer. IMO and your entitled to your own at least for a few more years until as you would say that might change also.

my point is they don't ----cops see kids all the time smoking and don't say anything ... it is illegal for a child to possess tobacco so why isn't anything done...(wouldn't have anything to do with ky being a tobacco state?)

and for your 2 situations

1. if my kid was at friends house and didn't follow my rules then he wouldn't go there plain and simple...( when i went to my friends house and rode motorcycles when i was younger i wore a helmet not because i wanted to but because if my father found out my butt would be kicked)

2. and for your divorce situation i am in that now and believe me there is nothing you can do about it if the other parent wants to do something that you don't agree with during there parenting time... and in your situation the good parent would then become the bad guy ... because all that would happen is while the police were there they would tell the kids to put the helmet on and then when the police leave they will tell them to take it off... believe me i have seen it or heard it... My son wheres his helmet whether he is with me or her because i have educated him... i have not made it an option.....

this law will not make kids wear their helmets ... does drunk driving laws keep ADULTS from driving drunk no ... and these are adults ....

just one question after the great point about the life jacket....

how are the police going to enforce this ... are they going to come on your property and check ... how are they going to know... if you have 1500 acres and your in the middle of it will they drive on your property to check ... come on public yes .... private NO

oh and by the way this is the first time I have been glad that i move to ohio !

**CatDawg** · 02-04-2006, 04:12 PM

And just because you have taught your kid the right way and that you did it the right way doesn't mean that under peer pressure that he will continue to do it the right way. I have seen it first hand you put kids in the right situation and they will make mistakes just like you and me everyday. No one not me not you not our kids are perfect and they will make mistakes no matter what the possible outcome. And if someone can help me from letting the kids make the mistake then more power to them. As for the being at the other parents maybe if they do get fined enough it will get their attention enough for them to make the kid stay off the 4 wheeler or wear the helmet. I never said you would be the one reporting it so you wouldn't be the bad parent due to that. I don't care if they do think I'm the bad guy if I'm doing what I feel is in their best interest then I've done the right thing.

As for smoking laws their getting tougher and tougher and its taken years to get there I just hope it does get to that point.

evillive · 02-04-2006, 04:26 PM

CatDawg Wrote:And just because you have taught your kid the right way and that you did it the right way doesn't mean that under peer pressure that he will continue to do it the right way. I have seen it first hand you put kids in the right situation and they will make mistakes just like you and me everyday. No one not me not you not our kids are perfect and they will make mistakes no matter what the possible outcome. And if someone can help me from letting the kids make the mistake then more power to them. As for the being at the other parents maybe if they do get fined enough it will get their attention enough for them to make the kid stay off the 4 wheeler or wear the helmet. I never said you would be the one reporting it so you wouldn't be the bad parent due to that. I don't care if they do think I'm the bad guy if I'm doing what I feel is in their best interest then I've done the right thing.

As for smoking laws their getting tougher and tougher and its taken years to get there I just hope it does get to that point.

i wouldn't have to report it to become the bad guy that is something only a divorced parent would know about ... and again if your kid is being peer pressured into doing something they shouldn't be with those kids anyway ...

and by your point if you teach your kids the right way then you can put them in the wrong situation and they will do the right thing!

we can argue all day long about this if you like --- you can bring how you feel about it and i can bring more stats into if you want (just like the fact that last year more children under the age of 16 died as a result of drowning in the state of ky than atv's (118- and swimming season is usually only about 5 -6 months out of the year) and guess what none of those children were wearing life jackets and i bet that about 75% of those at least were in back yard pools....( would you want a police man coming into your pool party for your childs birthday and giving every kid in the pool a ticket that wasn't wearing a flotation device ... come on)... you feel that you will give up some of your freedom as a land owner to make sure that your children and other children are safer... bravo ... more power to you ...

I myself am very tired of taking up the slack for sorry people in this country that dont take proper care of their children and good citizens like us have to pay the consequences...

I will be very comfortable with the fact that i can supervise my child and make sure that he is safe with out the law ---right here in good old ohio ... (wow i never would have thought i would have said that.)

**CatDawg** · 02-04-2006, 04:38 PM

We can keep bringing up different items that might or might not need to be enforced also but this thread is about the ATV helmet issue.

I hope your right that your kid will remain perfect and never make a bad decision but from my experience as a parent, as a person and as someone that has been involved in all sides of emergency service I know I've seen all types of kids and parents make mistakes. I've seen preachers arrested for DUI, I've seen children of preachers, teachers, police officers and others whom you would never expect to make a bad decision make one.

And I would bet my life that at least once in all our childrens experiences that they will at one time or another be with the so called WRONG kids and hopefully each and everytime they will make the right choice. And then again they could make that right choice but the one's that they're with could make the wrong choice and still result in ours being injuried or killed. I wish us both LUCK!

OU_Bruiser · 02-04-2006, 09:47 PM

How com you need a police to tell you to put your helmet on i mean if you look ont he atv its says alway wear protection....simple point the law is stupid you should know to wear a helmet......and teach your kids about what would happend if they wrecked with out it what would happend and im pretty sure they would start wearing it and every time they forogot to wear it punish them so they want forget.....

**Old School** · 02-04-2006, 10:17 PM

I think wearing helmets should be a law esp. for kids, like someone else stated if it only saved 1 life it would be worth it just think about it that 1 child may be yours, a neighbor's child, grandchild but it will be someones child.

evillive · 02-05-2006, 01:37 AM

CatDawg Wrote:We can keep bringing up different items that might or might not need to be enforced also but this thread is about the ATV helmet issue.

I hope your right that your kid will remain perfect and never make a bad decision but from my experience as a parent, as a person and as someone that has been involved in all sides of emergency service I know I've seen all types of kids and parents make mistakes. I've seen preachers arrested for DUI, I've seen children of preachers, teachers, police officers and others whom you would never expect to make a bad decision make one.

And I would bet my life that at least once in all our childrens experiences that they will at one time or another be with the so called WRONG kids and hopefully each and everytime they will make the right choice. And then again they could make that right choice but the one's that they're with could make the wrong choice and still result in ours being injuried or killed. I wish us both LUCK!

i dont' every remember stating that my son was perfect and i don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth when we were having a geniune discussion about an important issue ... it shows that you are reaching...

and this thread is about the atv helmet issue on private and public property that is what you and others keep forgetting... i have said several times on here and am getting tired of repeating it my kids have and always will be forced to wear a helmet until they are 18 year old --- i am for children under 16 --- well 18 for that matter wearing their helmets... i just do not think that the government should be able to fine you on private property ...

like i said if you are happy taking up the slack for other people in your community then you are a better person than me ... i myself am tired of losing my freedoms because of other people not taking care of their responsibilities or breaking the law....

**thetribe** · 02-05-2006, 03:33 AM

Works for me. I don't go riding anymore and it will help save lives so you can't be against that.

OU_Bruiser · 02-05-2006, 03:38 AM

thetribe Wrote:Works for me. I don't go riding anymore and it will help save lives so you can't be against that.

Im not against it im a against private property part they tustpass with out warrant how lame just to tell you to put your helmet on.......and if it saves lifes its a good thing

hillbillyman · 02-05-2006, 03:45 AM

I think it should be up to you if you need a Helmet on a atv

**CatDawg** · 02-05-2006, 12:28 PM

evillive Wrote:i dont' every remember stating that my son was perfect and i don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth when we were having a geniune discussion about an important issue ... it shows that you are reaching...

and this thread is about the atv helmet issue on private and public property that is what you and others keep forgetting... i have said several times on here and am getting tired of repeating it my kids have and always will be forced to wear a helmet until they are 18 year old --- i am for children under 16 --- well 18 for that matter wearing their helmets... i just do not think that the government should be able to fine you on private property ...

like i said if you are happy taking up the slack for other people in your community then you are a better person than me ... i myself am tired of losing my freedoms because of other people not taking care of their responsibilities or breaking the law....

Don't have to reach for anything.

Didn't put words in your mouth.

You say that they will always do as daddy says and I hope your right but I bet that at least once before they grow up they'll go against daddy.

You seem to think that you can watch and control them 24-7 and I just don't see that. Now worse case sceniro something happens to you and mom and now your not their to raise your kids will they still make that right decision. I hope.

**CatDawg** · 02-05-2006, 12:29 PM

http://www.mhmr.ky.gov/sa/prevention/Ken...coLaws.pdf

As far as the tobacco issue you can have them if your parents so allow its a stupid exception in the law.

**BasketBallonlyfan** · 02-05-2006, 02:15 PM

As far as the public and private land goes. I know me and my son does not just ride on our land. We also ride on the neighbors land. Peoples land we really dont know who owns. We ride the old strip mine roads just like most of the people in our area do. How much public land can you actually ride on? I think police should buy some 4 wheelers and ride the same trails and mine roads everyone around here rides on. They would have a field day with all the DUI's and possession charges they could write up. I also think that if a officer was on a public road, or a old mine road that is famous for being a 4 wheeler trail. Then yes, they should be allowed to give a 16 or younger a ticket for riding without a helmet. I DONT think they should be allowed to go on your private property that you own to look and see if you are riding one even if a neighbor calls and says that they are. They should have to be required to have seen you doing it from a public road.

evillive · 02-05-2006, 02:26 PM

CatDawg Wrote:http://www.mhmr.ky.gov/sa/prevention/Ken...coLaws.pdf

As far as the tobacco issue you can have them if your parents so allow its a stupid exception in the law.

like i said it is illegal ... they have to have permission ...

and my point is do the cops stop and check to see if they have permission no ... especially on private property ...

evillive · 02-05-2006, 02:28 PM

BasketBallonlyfan Wrote:As far as the public and private land goes. I know me and my son does not just ride on our land. We also ride on the neighbors land. Peoples land we really dont know who owns. We ride the old strip mine roads just like most of the people in our area do. How much public land can you actually ride on? I think police should buy some 4 wheelers and ride the same trails and mine roads everyone around here rides on. They would have a field day with all the DUI's and possession charges they could write up. I also think that if a officer was on a public road, or a old mine road that is famous for being a 4 wheeler trail. Then yes, they should be allowed to give a 16 or younger a ticket for riding without a helmet. I DONT think they should be allowed to go on your private property that you own to look and see if you are riding one even if a neighbor calls and says that they are. They should have to be required to have seen you doing it from a public road.

thank you ... very well put

OU_Bruiser · 02-05-2006, 02:30 PM

BasketBallonlyfan Wrote:As far as the public and private land goes. I know me and my son does not just ride on our land. We also ride on the neighbors land. Peoples land we really dont know who owns. We ride the old strip mine roads just like most of the people in our area do. How much public land can you actually ride on? I think police should buy some 4 wheelers and ride the same trails and mine roads everyone around here rides on. They would have a field day with all the DUI's and possession charges they could write up. I also think that if a officer was on a public road, or a old mine road that is famous for being a 4 wheeler trail. Then yes, they should be allowed to give a 16 or younger a ticket for riding without a helmet. I DONT think they should be allowed to go on your private property that you own to look and see if you are riding one even if a neighbor calls and says that they are. They should have to be required to have seen you doing it from a public road.

If they did go off road and ride the trails as every 1 else did and seen some 1 doing somthing illegal i don;t think there gonna catch them.......

evillive · 02-05-2006, 02:38 PM

CatDawg Wrote:Don't have to reach for anything.

Didn't put words in your mouth.

You say that they will always do as daddy says and I hope your right but I bet that at least once before they grow up they'll go against daddy.

You seem to think that you can watch and control them 24-7 and I just don't see that. Now worse case sceniro something happens to you and mom and now your not their to raise your kids will they still make that right decision. I hope.

you are reaching because believe it or not you are in the minority on this issue on this thread ... don't believe me check it out... and since you have resorted to making your point by calling me daddy and using sarcasm it really shows you are reaching....

remember you are the one that has flip/flopped on this issue ---- remember this "Not sure about this one. Since ATV's aren't allowed on road this means that it will be enforced off road. I think they should wear them but to require it on private property not sure about that."

and you did put words in my mouth ....you said that i hope your child remains perfect...... which implicates that i said he was or he told you he was and since i am quite sure you have never talked to my son ... i think it is pretty safe to say you were putting words into my mouth ....

this was a good discussion that I was really enjoying until you started using your "wit" by attacking my relationship with my children ...

you have your views and i have mine .... good luck to you

**CatDawg** · 02-05-2006, 03:29 PM

evillive Wrote:like i said it is illegal ... they have to have permission ...

and my point is do the cops stop and check to see if they have permission no ... especially on private property ...

And as stated if they have permission then it's not illegal.

**CatDawg** · 02-05-2006, 03:45 PM

evillive Wrote:you are reaching because believe it or not you are in the minority on this issue on this thread ... don't believe me check it out... and since you have resorted to making your point by calling me daddy and using sarcasm it really shows you are reaching....

remember you are the one that has flip/flopped on this issue ---- remember this "Not sure about this one. Since ATV's aren't allowed on road this means that it will be enforced off road. I think they should wear them but to require it on private property not sure about that."

and you did put words in my mouth ....you said that i hope your child remains perfect...... which implicates that i said he was or he told you he was and since i am quite sure you have never talked to my son ... i think it is pretty safe to say you were putting words into my mouth ....

this was a good discussion that I was really enjoying until you started using your "wit" by attacking my relationship with my children ...

you have your views and i have mine .... good luck to you

Sorry if you took it as sarcasm none meant would you feel better if I referred to you as father? Let me know I'll go back and change the post. Really no sarcasm intended. We're both adults with different views. I just like to agrue my point as much as you.

As far as being in the minority here you go. People who've posted on this topic.

Against

OU Bruiser 1, Basketballonlyfan 2, Evillive 3, Blackcat75 4, Hillbillyman 5.

FOR
Alfus 1, Catdawg 2, Bluegrassgirl 3, Beef 4, Old School 5 and Tribe 6.

Not sure where you went to school but I think 6 to 5 puts you in the minority. And Basketballonlyfan, OU Brusier and Blackcat75 agree with the law even on private property up to a point just not all private property. SO you could say that those three would be middle of the road. Either way more have posted for it than against it so far. That might change but at the time of the post you were in the minority. I did go back and check.

Never question your relationship with your kids. It is pretty apparent that you care for your kids but caring for them and teaching them the right ways doesn't mean they will always make that right choice.

sportsdawg · 02-05-2006, 03:49 PM

Guys Guys calm down here if we could all look at this as to saving a kids life I think we would all agree that even if it steps on my little piece of the world a bit that it would be worth it. Especially if that child is mine.

Chalk me up as being for this law and lets make it more harse impound the 4 wheeler also.

**CatDawg** · 02-05-2006, 04:05 PM

Glad you agree Fireman and maybe I have gotten a little to excited about this. And for that I'm sorry to all especially evillive.

But to say take the 4wheeler on the first violation I think that is just a bit harse. Maybe for the third or fourth violation.