[Old School]

I wont debate with you on the whole google earth thing, maybe you just don't want to admit the reclamation isnt as good as you claim, or one of us is blind and isn't seeing what is really in the photos. The kayford mountain site is clearly visible, anyone else who reads this post should go look at them, they will see the truth.

Your claim that they are handing out bad info, and bad photos, Ilovemountains.org has no control over the satellite images, google acquired those, the only thing ilovemountains does is provide the info on the links, you're more than welcome to challenge that info, but the photos are not doctored as you claim.

Question: If those photos are so horrible, why would 12,000 people sign a petition in just one week after the images were posted? Are those 12,000 people so stupid that they couldn't tell a doctored photo?

If you took the steps I said and viewed the global awareness/memorial for the mountains you would clearly see the photos, but I should have known that you wouldn't, you're to blinded by the coal industry to admit something that doesn't fit well with your agenda. You question the photos, but here is a great question for you, if reclamation is a good as you claim, then I shouldnt be able to tell a reclaimed area, from one that isnt? right? didnt you say they put it back to the original condition before mining


As far as the good reclamation photos, ive never been to an "anti-coal" meeting so I wouldn't know what has been said, or is said at those meetings.(Remember I study this on my own, I don't need someone to tell me what is true.) To me you're story really holds no water, that would be like me saying why don't coal groups show bad reclamation photos, it's simple, that would be bad PR.

Ive seen photos from coal groups on reclamation, and they all back what ive been saying, on most of these sites nothing is planted besides grass, and on the ones that do have sparse trees, no effort was made to replace the mixed forest that once lived on the mountain, becuase it is impossible for that forest to return to the destroyed land.

These links are from some sites that show before and after photos of reclamation. One of these is from a "coal freindly" site. Like I said, reclamation is a joke.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=h...n%26sa%3DN

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=h...n%26sa%3DN

The last link shows a site in knott county, some homes or buildings sit on it, but no sign is found of the trees you claim should be there, you can also look in the background and see that the same is true for the mining sites in the distance.


The real story is that if the reclamation was so great, and mining companies planted back this fantasy world where flora and fauna are wonderfully re-entered into the environment no one would be complaining. But thats not true, it's not just "crazy tree-huggers" that are crying foul, some universities are devoting entire classes to the subject, duke for example has a website on the issue.


The only real way to argue you this is with the studies done on the subject. What does the science say? Well the science and studies back my point of view. So what does this mean? Well in the case of this debate, absolutely nothing, I know that you aren't going to see things my way, and im definitely not going to see things your way, so it's kind of pointless for me to waste my time trying to prove that what im saying is the truth. I have better things to do than to argue with some old man. I will continue to spread what I believe is the truth, and I plan to give this information to people with an open mind, not a biased one. The cavemaster said it great in another thread with his analogy to the "smoker", you're only going to look for info that backs what you believe, and you will ignore anything that disagrees, even if it leads to your demise.

If only people could see things like the "green preacher" the world would be a better place. But sadly that isn't happening.

This may be the reason your not seeing a lot of trees in those pictures and why a lot of the land is flat, also this may or may not help you understanding the reclaimation process. After the 1977 ruling a coal company had three options for their post land use methods (1) Forest land use in which trees are planted, and is used primarily on Contour mining areas. (2) Hay land / Pasture land is preferred by property owners who want to leave their property flatter so they can use it to farm, graze cattle, build barns etc., trees are not planted on these areas. Today to have this method approved the property owner has to prove to the state how they plan to use this land. (3) Industrial/Commercial use, which would basically leave the land flat this method was the most popular in the late 70's and 80's. During the late 70' and early 80's a coal company along with approval from the property owner could claim that there were plans for either Industrial or Comercial use. Today it is very difficult to have a Industrial/ Commercial post land use approved, you basically have to have a contract with a company stating they will build on this particular site. I personally don't see any company agreeing to this since it will take nearly 3 years to obtain a mining permit, then depending on the size the permit about 5 years or so to mine the area, then at least anoth 5 years to obtain a bond release, that means a company would have to wait around 13 years from signing a contract before they could ever start construction on their buildings. Here's a few question for the areas that you are looking at on Google, Do you know when they were permitted? When were they mined? Could they have been permitted as Industrial/Commercial post land use or Hay land / Pasture land? I personally don't know the answer to those questions, but you and the anti-coal groups seem to jump to conclsions before you know all the facts.

You keep saying that reclaimation is a joke and that trees will never grow on destroyed land. Since I visited the sites that you recommended and I think it's only right that you take a look at these sites that shows recalaimed sites from all across the U.S.


http://www.mii.org/reclcoal.html

http://www.coaleducation.org/ky_coal_facts/default.htm