Old School Wrote:I will have to disagree Google Earth is not up to date as you say, according to their own web site and Question No. 3 anyways which states "Google Earth aquires the best imagery available, most of which is one to three years old. I know of one area that is now four years old. Question No. 4 on Google Earth also states the information in Google Earth is collected over time and is not "real time" in nature. I also checked out the page on Island Creek Ky. mine site located in Pike County and the page on Lost Mountain mine site located in Perry County Ky. and I found something odd between the two sites they both showed the same and only reclaimation photo, kind of odd don't you think, is it just a mistake or was it intentional. What other erroneous information are the anti-coal people giving the public?
I went back to Google Earth again and scanned the Eastern Ky area and every mine site that I clicked on has been either shaded white or tinted, and I don't care what you say you
can not tell how a mine site has been reclaimed in those photographs. I also zoomed up on several areas including towns, mine sites, my home I even zoomed up on the Marsh Fork Elem. and I couldn't get close enough to see the silos behind the school, I know their there but the photo was to blurry and Karford Mtn. there is no way you could make anything out without knowing what is actually there. Since the anti-coal people are the ones working on this, here's a question for you. Why are the mine sites whited out or a tint added to them? Wasn't the purpose of the web site to show everyone what these mining sites actually looked like? Are the anti-coal groups trying to cover things they don't want the public to see like good reclaimation area?
One more item and I'm calling it a night. The following is a true story. A good friend of mine who by the way was a environmentalist (believe it or not) was couriousabout what went on behind closed doors at a anti-mining meeting being sponsored by a local environmental group. As these anti-coal people came up one by one and told their stories or shared their photographs, a man from the Western part of the U.S. wanted to share some photographs that he had take a few days before. After showing the active mine photo's he started showing some photographs of reclaimed areas, this man was told by the group that they never show pictures of reclaimed mine areas. Why are anti-coal people afraid to show good reclaimation pictures to the public? Why won't anti-coal groups place good reclaimation pictures on their web sites and in their hand outs?
I wont debate with you on the whole google earth thing, maybe you just don't want to admit the reclamation isnt as good as you claim, or one of us is blind and isn't seeing what is really in the photos. The kayford mountain site is clearly visible, anyone else who reads this post should go look at them, they will see the truth.
Your claim that they are handing out bad info, and bad photos, Ilovemountains.org has no control over the satellite images, google acquired those, the only thing ilovemountains does is provide the info on the links, you're more than welcome to challenge that info, but the photos are not doctored as you claim.
Question: If those photos are so horrible, why would 12,000 people sign a petition in just one week after the images were posted? Are those 12,000 people so stupid that they couldn't tell a doctored photo?
If you took the steps I said and viewed the global awareness/memorial for the mountains you would clearly see the photos, but I should have known that you wouldn't, you're to blinded by the coal industry to admit something that doesn't fit well with your agenda. You question the photos, but here is a great question for you, if reclamation is a good as you claim, then I shouldnt be able to tell a reclaimed area, from one that isnt? right? didnt you say they put it back to the original condition before mining
As far as the good reclamation photos, ive never been to an "anti-coal" meeting so I wouldn't know what has been said, or is said at those meetings.(Remember I study this on my own, I don't need someone to tell me what is true.) To me you're story really holds no water, that would be like me saying why don't coal groups show bad reclamation photos, it's simple, that would be bad PR.
Ive seen photos from coal groups on reclamation, and they all back what ive been saying, on most of these sites nothing is planted besides grass, and on the ones that do have sparse trees, no effort was made to replace the mixed forest that once lived on the mountain, becuase it is impossible for that forest to return to the destroyed land.
These links are from some sites that show before and after photos of reclamation. One of these is from a "coal freindly" site. Like I said, reclamation is a joke.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=h...n%26sa%3DN
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=h...n%26sa%3DN
The last link shows a site in knott county, some homes or buildings sit on it, but no sign is found of the trees you claim should be there, you can also look in the background and see that the same is true for the mining sites in the distance.
The real story is that if the reclamation was so great, and mining companies planted back this fantasy world where flora and fauna are wonderfully re-entered into the environment no one would be complaining. But thats not true, it's not just "crazy tree-huggers" that are crying foul, some universities are devoting entire classes to the subject, duke for example has a website on the issue.
The only real way to argue you this is with the studies done on the subject. What does the science say? Well the science and studies back my point of view. So what does this mean? Well in the case of this debate, absolutely nothing, I know that you aren't going to see things my way, and im definitely not going to see things your way, so it's kind of pointless for me to waste my time trying to prove that what im saying is the truth. I have better things to do than to argue with some old man. I will continue to spread what I believe is the truth, and I plan to give this information to people with an open mind, not a biased one. The cavemaster said it great in another thread with his analogy to the "smoker", you're only going to look for info that backs what you believe, and you will ignore anything that disagrees, even if it leads to your demise.
If only people could see things like the "green preacher" the world would be a better place. But sadly that isn't happening.