Opinion on Running-up the Score?

**bac2369** · 08-26-2009, 02:13 PM

Running the score up shows lack of sportsmanship. I dont care if you are subbing starting players in and out the whole game its still considered running the score up. After a big lead is established all starters on both offense and defense should be pulled adn not be put back in the game to give playing time for younger kids. This is a very good topic and should get many opinions. I am not mentioning any names but it comes back to a saying that things will always come back to you.

Hilbily · 08-26-2009, 02:23 PM

If you can score at will then you pull your starters. If the JV scores at will then put all your freshmen in for a real game. It doesnt matter to me if your 2nd teams are running belly gut or hook and ladder? If a varsity defense is letting a freshmen team pull the Okie Doke then they deserve it.

**Stardust** · 08-26-2009, 02:34 PM

Hilbily Wrote:If you can score at will then you pull your starters. If the JV scores at will then put all your freshmen in for a real game. It doesnt matter to me if your 2nd teams are running belly gut or hook and ladder? If a varsity defense is letting a freshmen team pull the Okie Doke then they deserve it.

Agreed

Mama Bear · 08-26-2009, 02:36 PM

Is it the "losing" coaches responsibility to "tap out" and "submit" ,so to speak, and put his 2nd's in first? Or should the coach that is ahead, pull his starters first?

**BlackcatAlum** · 08-26-2009, 02:40 PM

Mama Bear Wrote:Is it the "losing" coaches responsibility to "tap out" and "submit" ,so to speak, and put his 2nd's in first? Or should the coach that is ahead, pull his starters first?

If I where a coach and I was on the winning end, I would pull my starters first.

**C.Clair** · 08-26-2009, 02:40 PM

I dont think running up the score is to big of deal. Its not the teams fault that the other team can not stop them, even with with JV in. I however dont agree with the JV team playing against the other teams Varsity. If the opposing teams Varsity is in, I would keep my Varsity in and if they couldnt stop my offense that isnt my fault.

**C.Clair** · 08-26-2009, 03:09 PM

Reading this thread, its pretty clear what team and game peopl are talking about. The game is over, the teams have already moved on. Im sure if you asked players from the other team, they wouldnt complain about running up the score.

**nky** · 08-26-2009, 03:20 PM

Coach E Wrote:By BIG point is this, both teams agree to play each other...it's the defense's job to stop the offense, not the offense's job to stop themselves. Too often in society we worry about FEELINGS. Kids need to learn how to cope with failure (no matter the margin-they are 13-19 year olds, not 6 year olds), that is what builds perserverence and intestinal fortitude later in life.

Agreed totally.

Youngerthandirt · 08-26-2009, 03:36 PM

I once had a coach leave his older more experienced players in game, late into the fourth quarter (basketball) and had me down by 25 plus. I think they ended up winning by 28, maybe 29, after he final pulled them with about 1:00 to go. As we shook hands I told him that he was losing his first six players, I would have all of mine back next year and I was already looking forward to the game..........and I did, and we won, by a BUNCH.
After the game I had a lady tell me that it wasn't nice to run the score up......I told her I agreed, but my memory must have been a little better than hers. Her husband was standing beside her, looked at me and said "you're right, mommies can remember from one season to the next like us old ball coaches can........I told her before we left home that this one would be ugly."
The other coach never said an ugly word to me after the game.....he was a younger guy with only a couple years experience, and I think he learned his lessen. We coached against each other several times since, and always respected the other team.

jackets · 08-26-2009, 04:21 PM

I don't enjoy watching a team get beat into the ground either but I do have just one question that may impact how or when a coach decides to pull out their starters. How often does the points scored in a game impact the overall outcome of the District playoff? Or do the points scored have any impact on determining the District playoff matchup?

**EKUAlum05** · 08-26-2009, 04:41 PM

My opinions in a condensed form:

1. To me a game is out of hand when either A) A running clock is in place (mercy rule) at any time B) Team A has a 4 TD or greater lead in the 4th Quarter with over 6:00 remaining C) Team A has a 3TD or greater lead in the 4th Quarter with under 6:00 remaining. What entails running up the score is LEAVING THE STARTING OFFENSE IN, I am a firm believer that until Team B puts in their reserves on offense, only then should Team A remove their Defensive starters. But at no time should the First team offense be left on the field with one of the above conditions in place. If a team is trying to score aggressively (Deep passing, no huddle offense, predominant running team trying to get around the corner) this constitutes running up the score. I have no problem with a pass oriented team continuing to pass the ball as long as it is short to intermediate routes and out of the huddle.

2. My personal opinion on the matter is that running up the score is gamesmanship, not so much bad sportsmanship. I do not condone running up the score, but if Team B is not competitive it is not Team A's fault. With that said, I also feel that if a team is noted for having bad gamesmanship and they are ever in position to have the page turned on them, they have NO RIGHT to complain and get upset.

3. I totaly agree with the poster who said it should be a gentleman's rule that the losing team removes their starters first.

4. I do not buy the "needed practice", "check conditioning", and "correct mistake" excuses. It is a coach's job to prepare his team for a post-season birth by scheduling quality opponents, establishing an off-season conditioning program, and using live action non-district games (this means early in the game) to test out plays. Plus, how much can you really tell about your team's condition in a game that is out of hand? The ammount of plays and intensity of the game will obviously be different than if it was hotly contested game against an evenly matched opponent. Additionally, the excuse of practicing plays against competition does't hold too much water if the opposition is clearly unmatched?

5. The biggest concern I have with running up the score AT THE HIGH SCHOOL LEVEL OR BELOW, is I find it sickening for a coach to be irresponsible for the health and well being of his players. NFL and NCAA athletes are a slightly different story, but for someone to gamble the health and well being of CHILDREN for personal glory and benefit, or even worse for a retalliatory or emotionally driven response, does not deserve respect. The chances of injury exponentially increase the longer an athlete stays on the field. Their focus ultimately will decrease when a game is out of hand, their fatigue logically increases, and an opponent's frustration increases. High School kids are simply playing for the joy of the sport or to get a college scholarship, for a coach to knowingly trivialize this is unacceptable IMO.

lean&mean · 08-26-2009, 04:54 PM

I will provide an example of how a coach runs the score up...........I was coaching girls basketball and had a very young team..Playing three 5th graders on a varsity middle school team. An opposing coach was beating my team by over 30 points and did not call off her full court press until the final minute of the game. This was along with keeping her starters in the game......Same thing happens in football.....This is wrong...I am a grown man and it really ticked me off but the players were kids and devastated.

**Poseidon** · 08-26-2009, 06:27 PM

jackets Wrote:I don't enjoy watching a team get beat into the ground either but I do have just one question that may impact how or when a coach decides to pull out their starters. How often does the points scored in a game impact the overall outcome of the District playoff? Or do the points scored have any impact on determining the District playoff matchup?

It happened last season in district 3A district 6.

oneijoe · 08-26-2009, 06:37 PM

Mama Bear Wrote:Is it the "losing" coaches responsibility to "tap out" and "submit" ,so to speak, and put his 2nd's in first? Or should the coach that is ahead, pull his starters first?

The suggestion I made earlier (losing team pulls starters first) wasn't intended to say that was the "right" way to do it.

I'm merely stating it would be far easier for coaches to make it an accepted convention. There's too much variance in different winning coaches perspectives as to their opinion on what is a "comfortable lead" for it to work that way. It's far easier for a losing coach to know when his team is no longer competitive in a game.

**Poseidon** · 08-26-2009, 06:41 PM

EKUAlum05 Wrote:My opinions in a condensed form:

1. To me a game is out of hand when either A) A running clock is in place (mercy rule) at any time B) Team A has a 4 TD or greater lead in the 4th Quarter with over 6:00 remaining C) Team A has a 3TD or greater lead in the 4th Quarter with under 6:00 remaining. What entails running up the score is LEAVING THE STARTING OFFENSE IN, I am a firm believer that until Team B puts in their reserves on offense, only then should Team A remove their Defensive starters. But at no time should the First team offense be left on the field with one of the above conditions in place. If a team is trying to score aggressively (Deep passing, no huddle offense, predominant running team trying to get around the corner) this constitutes running up the score. I have no problem with a pass oriented team continuing to pass the ball as long as it is short to intermediate routes and out of the huddle.

2. My personal opinion on the matter is that running up the score is gamesmanship, not so much bad sportsmanship. I do not condone running up the score, but if Team B is not competitive it is not Team A's fault. With that said, I also feel that if a team is noted for having bad gamesmanship and they are ever in position to have the page turned on them, they have NO RIGHT to complain and get upset.

3. I totaly agree with the poster who said it should be a gentleman's rule that the losing team removes their starters first.

4. I do not buy the "needed practice", "check conditioning", and "correct mistake" excuses. It is a coach's job to prepare his team for a post-season birth by scheduling quality opponents, establishing an off-season conditioning program, and using live action non-district games (this means early in the game) to test out plays. Plus, how much can you really tell about your team's condition in a game that is out of hand? The ammount of plays and intensity of the game will obviously be different than if it was hotly contested game against an evenly matched opponent. Additionally, the excuse of practicing plays against competition does't hold too much water if the opposition is clearly unmatched?

5. The biggest concern I have with running up the score AT THE HIGH SCHOOL LEVEL OR BELOW, is I find it sickening for a coach to be irresponsible for the health and well being of his players. NFL and NCAA athletes are a slightly different story, but for someone to gamble the health and well being of CHILDREN for personal glory and benefit, or even worse for a retalliatory or emotionally driven response, does not deserve respect. The chances of injury exponentially increase the longer an athlete stays on the field. Their focus ultimately will decrease when a game is out of hand, their fatigue logically increases, and an opponent's frustration increases. High School kids are simply playing for the joy of the sport or to get a college scholarship, for a coach to knowingly trivialize this is unacceptable IMO.

3 TD lead in the 4th with 6:00 or under, no way my starters would ever come out. I am sure that the other team would keep trying, so why risk the game getting any closer? Also, I would not put my second string against a descent teams 1st team unless it was like a 40+ point game in the 2nd half.

BobcatStuckInPowell · 08-26-2009, 07:08 PM

BlackcatAlum Wrote:Keeping your starting offense in late in a game that's out of control and/or throwing the ball with a big lead late in a game.

IMO, if you have the JV in and the opposing defense cannot stop them then that isn't running-up the score.

Look;we All know who you are "talking about".The big RB only had 14 carries ALL night and the QB went 5 for 8.Give me a break.

~~NEWARKCATHOLICFAN~~ · 08-26-2009, 07:12 PM

If you bring in the back ups and run your offense I see no problem.

**EKUAlum05** · 08-26-2009, 08:17 PM

TheBrahmaBull Wrote:3 TD lead in the 4th with 6:00 or under, no way my starters would ever come out. I am sure that the other team would keep trying, so why risk the game getting any closer? Also, I would not put my second string against a descent teams 1st team unless it was like a 40+ point game in the 2nd half.

As I said in my post... if they keep "trying" then you leave your first team defense in.

It's not like baseball where if you remove your starters they can't come back in.

bigjim4packers · 08-26-2009, 08:29 PM

Stardust Wrote:To me, running up the score versus playing starters or making a mockery of the game are two completely different subjects. If a team is up big, then they have no business playing their starters or continuing in an aggressive passing game. I would never ever accept a team "laying down". I as either the coach of the winning team or the losing team would expect to just take a knee over and over. That is embarassing the game.

As far as scoring goes, there are instances where a teams 2's or even 3's can still score on some teams 1's. If that's the case, then that's just part of the game and shame on the losing team. But never ever tell kids to shut it down. That is not acceptable, nor is it life.

:Thumbs:

**BlackcatAlum** · 08-26-2009, 08:34 PM

BobcatStuckInPowell Wrote:Look;we All know who you are "talking about".The big RB only had 14 carries ALL night and the QB went 5 for 8.Give me a break.

:eyeroll:

I'm looking for good discussion on a slow day. If I still wanted to talk about that game I would go to that respected thread.

There was another game where a coach supposedly said he will not play that team again because they ran up the score. So, the Breathitt/Mercer game was not the only game that the score was supposedly ran-up in.

Eagle_Fan442 · 08-26-2009, 08:37 PM

I think there are different situations to this. For example..If these are grade schools then yes, coaches need to start pulling there starters. If this is high school, I say leave them in as long as you like, shows the other team they have work to do. ...much like life in general.

**FBALL** · 08-26-2009, 10:14 PM

I don't buy the working on things excuse at all. How much can you really work on when up big and the other team cannot matchup. You will get more done against the scout team in practice.

Some coaches run up the score for stats and ego period. Piling it on to an out manned team or trying to get a late TD just to make the score look worse is bush league.

StrayBullet · 08-26-2009, 10:20 PM

If your team cant stop the other team from scoring then they deserve to be scored on over and over again..especially if its your 1st team in Johnson Centrals case...

**sstack** · 08-26-2009, 11:02 PM

Hilbily Wrote:If you can score at will then you pull your starters. If the JV scores at will then put all your freshmen in for a real game. It doesnt matter to me if your 2nd teams are running belly gut or hook and ladder? If a varsity defense is letting a freshmen team pull the Okie Doke then they deserve it.

Alot of teams do not dress freshmen for varsity games.

Coach E · 08-26-2009, 11:45 PM

tomcatfan722000 Wrote:just a question but arent there tiebreakers decided on pts scored in ky i know thats a long way down the list if there even is just a question

I asked our football coach, and he said (I will paraphrase-so don't kill me if I screw this up, it was tough to digest) that it's based on wins first (and this only applies in a 3 way tie). Common opponent wins by each team are excused and the rest of the schedule is considered. The teams you beat and their cumaltive wins are then taken into account to break the tie. If the tie is between 2 teams then they simply look at head to head and go from there. I tried to wrap my head around this and it would just seem easier and equally fair to have a coin toss like the do in Friday Night Lights, much easier for everyone involved.

Mama Bear · 08-26-2009, 11:54 PM

oneijoe Wrote:The suggestion I made earlier (losing team pulls starters first) wasn't intended to say that was the "right" way to do it.

I'm merely stating it would be far easier for coaches to make it an accepted convention. There's too much variance in different winning coaches perspectives as to their opinion on what is a "comfortable lead" for it to work that way. It's far easier for a losing coach to know when his team is no longer competitive in a game.

I guess each game could be different, but I tend to think that the "losing" coach needs to pull his first and then the "winning" coach will know that is his cue to let the younger guys play, that he has won. I suppose the time left in a game and the point spread would all have to come into question, but I keep thinking of that old Kenny Rogers song "You got to know when to hold them, know when to fold them...."

CoachB · 08-27-2009, 12:01 AM

Excellent Post!!! I think that the young kids come to practice and they deserve to get their time on Friday nights, when it is a blow out. It also help to build for the future.

OrangenowBlue Wrote:I also believe when the winning team starts substituting the losing team needs to sub also. I wouldn't want my young players to get injured against older players because the losing coach is trying to make the score more respectable. I think in a blowout both coaches need to use common sense.

eastkyfootballfan · 08-27-2009, 12:24 AM

hawg laig Wrote:Question for the coaches online---Who should start subbing thier 2nd and 3rds first. The trailing team or the leading team?

I've always felt the first move was on the leading coaches shoulders but I have heard some coaches say they don't pull their starters until their opponent does.

the coach with the lead should if he feels the game i well in hand. That is of course if the coach has class or not.

**sstack** · 08-27-2009, 12:49 AM

sstack Wrote:Alot of teams do not dress freshmen for varsity games.

The school I follow has been acused of running up the score, but if you saw the games, you would see that is not the case. Their starters play one series in the second half and then the 2nd and 3rd teamers come on. Yes, the 2nd and 3rd teamers have scored in the 3rd and 4th quarters, but you can't ask them to roll over and play dead. And in alot of cases the other teams leave in the 1st teamers most if not all the game.

tomcatfan722000 · 08-27-2009, 01:07 AM

Coach E Wrote:I asked our football coach, and he said (I will paraphrase-so don't kill me if I screw this up, it was tough to digest) that it's based on wins first (and this only applies in a 3 way tie). Common opponent wins by each team are excused and the rest of the schedule is considered. The teams you beat and their cumaltive wins are then taken into account to break the tie. If the tie is between 2 teams then they simply look at head to head and go from there. I tried to wrap my head around this and it would just seem easier and equally fair to have a coin toss like the do in Friday Night Lights, much easier for everyone involved.

well this system i like it seems to prevent running up the score and make every game matter not juts district games thanks for the info but just to state there was a few years ago when lawrence county had to beat us by so many points to win the district so i would have had no problem them going for that total even if the game was in hand they were playing for a championship and that game was in basketball not football