Who will be the #1 draft pick in the NFL

**BCF4L** · 10-25-2008, 06:29 PM

Jshort5 Wrote:Kimo Von Ill****upyourknee.

Never heard him called that before.

Jshort5 · 10-25-2008, 07:27 PM

BCF4L Wrote: Never heard him called that before.

Remember, you heard it first from me. Big Grin

**More Cowbell** · 10-27-2008, 05:32 PM

BCF4L Wrote:Well I agree that the offensive line doesn't help anything, but his stats don't lie. The O-line wasn't much different if at all in 2006, the year after his ACL tear. Here are his stats from 2005-present.

In 2005 he had a QB rating of 101.1. 2006 it was 93.9, 07 86.7, and in 4 games this year its at a whopping 69.0. There is a steady decline.

His INT rate has gone up from 12 in 05 to 20 in 07. Now before you blame the offensive line for last year, here is an interesting stat. Carson was sacked 19 times in 05 and only 17 times in 07. Now, who do you blame here?

I still stand by my statement that Carson Palmer is not the QB he was in 2005, and a change needs to be made. Heck, at least Fitzpatrick throws it to Chad Johnson every once in a while. That's more than can be said about Carson.

See, to me the decline in Carson's stats can be directly correlated with the decreasing effectiveness of the O-line. In 2005, the playoff year, he played behind a relatively stable line that included a healthy Levi Jones, Eric Steinbach, Rich Braham, and Willie Anderson. That was a GREAT line, one of the best in the league. But since that year, the line was devastated by injuries, defections, and old age.

Start off with the retirement of Rich Braham. He was an underrated center, and since he called it quits Carson has had to deal with such all-stars as Eric Ghuiciac and Alex Stepanovich. Ghuiciac seems to be getting worse every year, as this season it seems he gets blown backward as soon as he snaps the ball on every play.

Then, you had injuries to both Levi Jones and Big Willie. Jones is playing this year but is nowhere near what he used to be and gets routinely beat by speed rushers. Anderson had injuries rob him of his effectiveness as well, to the point where the team felt Stacy Andrews would be an improvement (he hasn't).

Plus, don't forget that the team let Eric Steinbach walk after the 06 season as a free agent. So now, instead of the foursome I mentioned earlier, you have a line consisting of Andrew Whitworth, Eric Ghuiciac, Stacy Andrews, and a lesser version of Levi Jones. The once-great O-line is now only a shell of what it was 3 years ago.

**BCF4L** · 10-28-2008, 09:37 AM

More Cowbell Wrote:See, to me the decline in Carson's stats can be directly correlated with the decreasing effectiveness of the O-line. In 2005, the playoff year, he played behind a relatively stable line that included a healthy Levi Jones, Eric Steinbach, Rich Braham, and Willie Anderson. That was a GREAT line, one of the best in the league. But since that year, the line was devastated by injuries, defections, and old age.

Start off with the retirement of Rich Braham. He was an underrated center, and since he called it quits Carson has had to deal with such all-stars as Eric Ghuiciac and Alex Stepanovich. Ghuiciac seems to be getting worse every year, as this season it seems he gets blown backward as soon as he snaps the ball on every play.

Then, you had injuries to both Levi Jones and Big Willie. Jones is playing this year but is nowhere near what he used to be and gets routinely beat by speed rushers. Anderson had injuries rob him of his effectiveness as well, to the point where the team felt Stacy Andrews would be an improvement (he hasn't).

Plus, don't forget that the team let Eric Steinbach walk after the 06 season as a free agent. So now, instead of the foursome I mentioned earlier, you have a line consisting of Andrew Whitworth, Eric Ghuiciac, Stacy Andrews, and a lesser version of Levi Jones. The once-great O-line is now only a shell of what it was 3 years ago.

I'm not going to argue with the fact that if Carson had more time, he would be more effective. Anyone would. This is the NFL. But, you look at Matt Cassel from New England. I think he has done a fantastic job and he has been running for his life just as much as Carson was. The difference is, Cassel has the confidence to stand in and take a hit, unlike Carson who feels pressure coming and just throws it away. These knee injuries can wreak havoc on a persons mind and I know that each time he gets hit, his knee injury is in the back of his mind. You can just tell by his accuracy when the blitz is on.

HAIL PIKEVILLE! · 10-28-2008, 02:18 PM

Jshort5 Wrote:I'm just not willing to accept the fact that Carson's career was ruined by Kimo Von Ill****upyourknee.

It was an accident get over it.

Jshort5 · 10-28-2008, 02:26 PM

HAIL PIKEVILLE! Wrote:It was an accident get over it.

Accident my Arse.:mad:

HAIL PIKEVILLE! · 10-29-2008, 09:21 AM

Jshort5 Wrote:Accident my Arse.:mad:

Yeah the Bengals usually do have an accident in that area whenever the Steelers are mentioned LOL!:p

schs_06 · 10-29-2008, 09:35 PM

HAIL PIKEVILLE! Wrote:Yeah the Bengals usually do have an accident in that area whenever the Steelers are mentioned LOL!:p

:ChairHit: lmao

~~If...Then~~ · 10-30-2008, 11:11 AM

Mike Hartline

:lmao:

**More Cowbell** · 10-30-2008, 03:36 PM

BCF4L Wrote:I'm not going to argue with the fact that if Carson had more time, he would be more effective. Anyone would. This is the NFL. But, you look at Matt Cassel from New England. I think he has done a fantastic job and he has been running for his life just as much as Carson was. The difference is, Cassel has the confidence to stand in and take a hit, unlike Carson who feels pressure coming and just throws it away. These knee injuries can wreak havoc on a persons mind and I know that each time he gets hit, his knee injury is in the back of his mind. You can just tell by his accuracy when the blitz is on.

You can have Matt Cassell for your team, and I'll take a (healthy) Carson Palmer any day. If he's healthy and has time to throw, he's still one of the best in the league.

I agree that the knee injury probably creeps into his mind when he gets hit , especially if he takes a hit in the legs. But he has maybe the worst center in the league snapping it to him, a guy who gets knocked backward nearly every play allowing the rusher a free shot on Carson.

I'll put it a different way. Playing behind this sorry excuse for a line, no QB, not Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, or Drew Brees, would be able to do well either.

**BCF4L** · 10-30-2008, 04:20 PM

More Cowbell Wrote:You can have Matt Cassell for your team, and I'll take a (healthy) Carson Palmer any day. If he's healthy and has time to throw, he's still one of the best in the league.

I agree that the knee injury probably creeps into his mind when he gets hit , especially if he takes a hit in the legs. But he has maybe the worst center in the league snapping it to him, a guy who gets knocked backward nearly every play allowing the rusher a free shot on Carson.

I'll put it a different way. Playing behind this sorry excuse for a line, no QB, not Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, or Drew Brees, would be able to do well either.

I didn't say I wanted Matt Cassell. I'm just saying he is going through the same thing in New England with his O-line. I realize Carson is a pocket passer, but when the pressure is on, he needs to learn how to escape the pocket and pass on the run. Look at the difference in Fitzpatrick and Palmer. Fitzpatrick can't throw for crap, but can escape the rush and make something happen. I'm not asking for Carson to be a scrambling QB, but he needs to learn there is life outside the pocket.

**More Cowbell** · 10-31-2008, 01:12 PM

BCF4L Wrote:I didn't say I wanted Matt Cassell. I'm just saying he is going through the same thing in New England with his O-line. I realize Carson is a pocket passer, but when the pressure is on, he needs to learn how to escape the pocket and pass on the run. Look at the difference in Fitzpatrick and Palmer. Fitzpatrick can't throw for crap, but can escape the rush and make something happen. I'm not asking for Carson to be a scrambling QB, but he needs to learn there is life outside the pocket.

He is who he is. Carson Palmer is not, nor will he ever be, a scrambler. You're right in that the ability to scramble would probably be useful, playing behind the sieve that passes for an O-line in Cincy right now. But the ability to throw on the run doesn't help you if you can't throw it anyway, a la Ryan Fitzpatrick. With this guy starting the rest of the year, the Bengals will be lucky to score 10 points in any game they play.

I guess the bottom line for me is I don't want the Bengals to draft another QB, since I think he would have the same problems Carson had been facing. Fix the line, and if that means drafting an offensive tackle in the first round, so be it.

I always wondered what Tim Couch's career might have been if the Browns had decided to provide him some O-line protection during his time there...

frankie21 · 11-03-2008, 12:34 PM

After the other day, I wouldn't be surprised if Michael Crabtree starts getting some love for the top 3 picks, if not 1st.

Deathstar 80 · 11-23-2008, 03:09 AM

I have a feeling it will be Heisman contender Texas Tech's quarterback. I know his team lost horribly against Oklahoma, but as I was watching him, I'm confident he will be chosen as the first pick. (He won't win the Heisman award simply because of the bad game against Oklahoma)