[Crossbones]

I understand that everyone has sins. My point was that the people in that post had done no immorality with the listed things.

I know.

[Old school Dawg]

Tribe I bet you love the story in the bible when the mob wanted to stone the woman caught right in the act of adultry.Jesus tells them,he who has no sin cast the first stone.The crowd slowly disappeared.

[thetribe]

I know the story but please explain why you bet that I love the story.

[Old school Dawg]

Because you seem to love forgiveness.Jesus didnt go along with the crowd.He did what he knew was best.

[Old school Dawg]

Tribe I am curious to your age,,Im 46 and have been happily narried for 25 years.

[thetribe]

I'm 19 with a 46 year old mother and a 50 year old father who have helped mold me into the person I am today.

[Doc Holliday]

I believe in a Heaven that accepts all who accept Jesus as his savior. I am a born again Christian and My God is Loving forgiving and accept all who accept him. I guess I was brought up much different than many members and for that matter most of East Ky. My Grandfather was Old regular baptist as well as my Father. But my father also demanded that I had an open mind to all people. anyone that knows me will tell you I don't see color when I look at people, I don't see sexual preference. I attended a religious college as well as 2 state universities, so i pretty much got to experience both sides of many different discussions.

This is my opinion and mine alone I make statements not to smooth over or satisfy anyone other than myself and my God. I have questions that no one on this site or any other could answer. But I will ask them because I feel we have some member who can carry on an intelligent conversation.

Does God love all people?

Is God perfect?

Why do children die? why are they taken so early?

How can someone who so love his children allow a mother to drown their own children?

If Jews are the chosen ones and will be the first removed during the rapture, then why does everyone else have to accept Jesus, since in the eyes of Judaism he is a false prophet?

If all Christians and their Church's follow the Bible KJV then why do they all have different doctrines or policies, and who can decide which ones are following the right ones.


No where in those commandments which are Gods Law does it make mention of homosexuality.

The Bible says many things that are there for certain reasons and people, Church's ministers interpret them to have certain meanings:

1 Corinthians 11:15

But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering


Certain associations in the old regular baptist consider this to be doctrine saying that it is a sin to cut her hair.

According to history during the period in which the Bible was written prostitutes shaved their head, to look as children or small boys. It is thought that his is the reason it was placed in the Bible.


According to researchers, the female worshipers of Dionysus would frequently dress like men. They would remove their veils and either cut their hair very short or completely shave their heads. The men, attempting to imitate women, would grow their hair long and don veils during the worship ceremonies.

In an article published in the “Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society,” Catherine Clark writes that when women worshiped the god Dionysus, that the

“...uncovered head and bound hair was to signify both commitment to the strange god of wine and at the same time repudiation of male injustice.”


In describing the practices of similar cults, Clark further states that,

“A relief from Rome shows a high priest of Cybele. The castrated priest wears veil, necklaces, earrings and feminine dress.”8

http://www.actseighteen.com/articles/uncuthair.htm

and if you want some insight on translation and interpretation of the Bible i would suggest you view this site http://www.worldpolicy.org/globalrights/...e-gay.html

You find it enlightening.

[Doc Holliday]

I tried to copy a list of the 10 commandments as they are in Judaism Christianity and Islam.
But the table wouldn't show correctly

[thetribe]

Very interesting link Doc. It adds a lot to the religious viewpoint of things.

If you want to catch me online later today I will help you get the 10 Commandments up and running.

[Doc Holliday]

well i am there and you aint showing up

[Old school Dawg]

Doc Im here and am going to work.I just got on here and will respond tonight pal.My mother-in-law is a United Baptist and is 85 years old will not go anywhere else and will tell you she has never been saved.I want to talk about how they view divorse.You can be forgiven and go to heaven but you can,t join their church,,later my ride is honking.

[Midee1]

First of all I would like to say that I am really proud of the maturity that is in this thread. That so many members with so many different beliefs can get together and discuss them without it turning into a bash fest.

For some of the other members let this thread be a lesson in civility that should carry over to all forums. If your team loses let them lose with dignity and not turn the thread into an argument because your view differs from someone else's.


To the posters in this thread I congratulate you on a great thread with many different points of view.

[Midee1]

I want to talk about how they view divorse.You can be forgiven and go to heaven but you can,t join their church,,later my ride is honking.

OSD I will be here later and would like to know the divorce viewpoint. From my wifes situation I would hope that god would understand and that the members of a church would understand as well.

I will go into more detail if need be.

[Batpuff]

Well I was once told by my pastor it wasnt right and if she really wanted the divorce to let her be the one to file. To this day I have done just that. I have to say its sad I know but I have been through two of them. They dont get any easier either.

[Redneck]

Lexington's gone to hell...

[thetribe]

^ That is the kind of mature posts that they were talking about. Good job.

[Doc Holliday]

Doc Im here and am going to work.I just got on here and will respond tonight pal.My mother-in-law is a United Baptist and is 85 years old will not go anywhere else and will tell you she has never been saved.I want to talk about how they view divorse.You can be forgiven and go to heaven but you can,t join their church,,later my ride is honking.

Look forward to it, always enjoy learning new view points torwards and about religion.

Southern Baptist will not allow me to be a Deacon because I am divorced but I am a member, became one after my divorce. I did nothing to cause my divorce, did not choose nor wanted it, had no choice, I made one major mistake allowed my love for someone to blind my vision, and didn't see the true person that i had hoped I would spend the rest of my life with. However she decided that she would rather spend her time with anyone who would lay with her, that drugs and alcohol were more important to her than our pledge to one another. So she skipped out with the money, the memories and moved on to whom ever she could convince to bed her after a few hours at which ever bar she was hanging out.
Now does that mean I am a sinner because the person i wanted to spend the rest of life with decided that she would rather have a new flavor of the night rather than being with one? Does that make me unworthy because of her choice? Ky is a no fault divorce state which means nothing you did in or during the marriage really matters. So she decided to become a whore or just got tired of hiding the fact from me, and due to this I am judged by many associations as being a sinner and could not be a member, my own church says that I could never become a deacon. That if I were to remarry then I would be committing adultery.

The Bible says that no man should or can judge another yet church's and denominations do, this is the sort of hypocrisy which drives many from the church.

Religion is not a bad thing but interpretation and translation over 2 thousand years, allows for many misunderstandings.

Words and their meanings sometime change over time, in the 1940's gay meant you were happy, and fag was a cigarette, and it still means cigarette in Europe.

Overtime what have we lost of misinterpreted?

I don't claim to have any answers yet I will say and stand by how I feel, man is mortal, he make mistakes everyday of his life, and if you take a room full of people and whisper something into one person ear and they proceed to pass it along to the rest of the room, by the time you get to the end, the original statement will be altered to the point where it may not even remotely be similar to the outcome.

So the Bible could have had things both added and deleted overtime. Whos to say?

http://www.geocities.com/j_owens05/tnt/t...index.html

[Crossbones]

I believe in a Heaven that accepts all who accept Jesus as his savior. I am a born again Christian and My God is Loving forgiving and accept all who accept him. I guess I was brought up much different than many members and for that matter most of East Ky. My Grandfather was Old regular baptist as well as my Father. But my father also demanded that I had an open mind to all people. anyone that knows me will tell you I don't see color when I look at people, I don't see sexual preference. I attended a religious college as well as 2 state universities, so i pretty much got to experience both sides of many different discussions.

This is my opinion and mine alone I make statements not to smooth over or satisfy anyone other than myself and my God. I have questions that no one on this site or any other could answer. But I will ask them because I feel we have some member who can carry on an intelligent conversation.

Does God love all people?

Is God perfect?

Why do children die? why are they taken so early?

How can someone who so love his children allow a mother to drown their own children?

If Jews are the chosen ones and will be the first removed during the rapture, then why does everyone else have to accept Jesus, since in the eyes of Judaism he is a false prophet?

If all Christians and their Church's follow the Bible KJV then why do they all have different doctrines or policies, and who can decide which ones are following the right ones.


No where in those commandments which are Gods Law does it make mention of homosexuality.

The Bible says many things that are there for certain reasons and people, Church's ministers interpret them to have certain meanings:

1 Corinthians 11:15

But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering


Certain associations in the old regular baptist consider this to be doctrine saying that it is a sin to cut her hair.

According to history during the period in which the Bible was written prostitutes shaved their head, to look as children or small boys. It is thought that his is the reason it was placed in the Bible.


According to researchers, the female worshipers of Dionysus would frequently dress like men. They would remove their veils and either cut their hair very short or completely shave their heads. The men, attempting to imitate women, would grow their hair long and don veils during the worship ceremonies.

In an article published in the “Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society,” Catherine Clark writes that when women worshiped the god Dionysus, that the

“...uncovered head and bound hair was to signify both commitment to the strange god of wine and at the same time repudiation of male injustice.”




In describing the practices of similar cults, Clark further states that,

“A relief from Rome shows a high priest of Cybele. The castrated priest wears veil, necklaces, earrings and feminine dress.”8

http://www.actseighteen.com/articles/uncuthair.htm

and if you want some insight on translation and interpretation of the Bible i would suggest you view this site http://www.worldpolicy.org/globalrights/...e-gay.html

You find it enlightening.

I'm assuming some of this is for me. Maybe not. But I will try to answer some of the ? to the best of my study of Gods word.
1. Yes, God loves everyone. II Peter 3:9
" Not Willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
2. Yes, I believe from my study and being Holy Spirit led that He is perfect. II Sam 22:31
" As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the Lord is tried, he is a buckler to all them that trust in him."
3. As for children dieing, I can not realy answer that, if it is the will of God it is not up to me to ? it or even understand it, but to honour it. The bible says " we are here for only a season." Ecc 3: 1-9
4. We are free moral agents. God give us the freedom to make desisions. Whether it be to accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior or not accept him. Sin is bread into us from Adam and Eve, but we do not have to sin. It is up to us to make all desisions. Satan can not even make you make a desision but he can put the ideas out in front of us.
5. The nation of Isreal are Gods chosen people but through Jesus Christ we are adopted into the Family of God if you will. Actually the bible does not say the Jews will be the first called up in the raptor, it says; "The dead in Christ shall rise first, then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." I thessalonians 5:16-17
6. I agree there are alot of differences in the Churchs on the Word of God. We have done alot of bible study at our church on this. history tells us that men split the church because of doctornal issues. I chose to worship in the freewill baptist denomination, do I agree with all of the doctrines, no I do not, but I do agree with them more than I do some of the other churchs doctrines. Thats why I choose to worship there. Again, we are free moral agents. My inlaws are Old regulars, I still love them and I even go to church with them, do I agree with all of there doctrines? No, but that is my choice. I believe that each Christian needs to mind the Holy Spirit and be led of the Spirit to were God wants you to be. As to who is right, that is between you and God. II Timothy 2:15 " Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly divinding the word of truth."
7. Yes the ten commandments do refer to homosexuality. Anytime you see the term adultery, it is not only refering to a marriage relationship, but immoral acts of sex, sexual relations out of marriage, rape. I will give you the scripture but will not write all of it down, too much too write.(Mt. 19:18, Mk. 7:22, Eph. 5:3-4, Mt. 22:39-40, Rom. 13:9 ) All of them will give you an answer. When I study Gods word, I believe you have to know who's doing the talking, who they are talking to, and what they are talking about. You have to read the entire text not just bits and pieces.

I will try to do the rest later, hands getting tired.

[Old school Dawg]

I have often wondered if you have never been saved, and you get married, are you married in the eyes of God.The good book tells of how people will enter into judgement saying,I have done miracles in your name,and basically claim they had been saved and God responds to some saying, depart I NEVER knew you.If he never knew you in a spiritual way would the oath you would make when your were married really count.I dont care if a person has been divorced once or ten times and then he is saved, He is forgiven for anything he has ever done wrong.I also believe he didnt just die on the cross for the sins you committed from the time your reach the age of accountabilty until the day you are saved but he died for all your sins.I think man has made a big mistake when his bylaws in an denomination has it where basically you can be saved and spent eternity with our Lord Jesus BUT you cant be a member of our church.There is no love in that.How will you know a true believer,,,,his love for his brothers and sisters in Christ.

[Doc Holliday]

I'm assuming some of this is for me. Maybe not. But I will try to answer some of the ? to the best of my study of Gods word.
1. Yes, God loves everyone. II Peter 3:9
" Not Willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
2. Yes, I believe from my study and being Holy Spirit led that He is perfect. II Sam 22:31
" As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the Lord is tried, he is a buckler to all them that trust in him."
3. As for children dieing, I can not realy answer that, if it is the will of God it is not up to me to ? it or even understand it, but to honour it. The bible says " we are here for only a season." Ecc 3: 1-9
4. We are free moral agents. God give us the freedom to make desisions. Whether it be to accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior or not accept him. Sin is bread into us from Adam and Eve, but we do not have to sin. It is up to us to make all desisions. Satan can not even make you make a desision but he can put the ideas out in front of us.
5. The nation of Isreal are Gods chosen people but through Jesus Christ we are adopted into the Family of God if you will. Actually the bible does not say the Jews will be the first called up in the raptor, it says; "The dead in Christ shall rise first, then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." I thessalonians 5:16-17
6. I agree there are alot of differences in the Churchs on the Word of God. We have done alot of bible study at our church on this. history tells us that men split the church because of doctornal issues. I chose to worship in the freewill baptist denomination, do I agree with all of the doctrines, no I do not, but I do agree with them more than I do some of the other churchs doctrines. Thats why I choose to worship there. Again, we are free moral agents. My inlaws are Old regulars, I still love them and I even go to church with them, do I agree with all of there doctrines? No, but that is my choice. I believe that each Christian needs to mind the Holy Spirit and be led of the Spirit to were God wants you to be. As to who is right, that is between you and God. II Timothy 2:15 " Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly divinding the word of truth."
7. Yes the ten commandments do refer to homosexuality. Anytime you see the term adultery, it is not only refering to a marriage relationship, but immoral acts of sex, sexual relations out of marriage, rape. I will give you the scripture but will not write all of it down, too much too write.(Mt. 19:18, Mk. 7:22, Eph. 5:3-4, Mt. 22:39-40, Rom. 13:9 ) All of them will give you an answer. When I study Gods word, I believe you have to know who's doing the talking, who they are talking to, and what they are talking about. You have to read the entire text not just bits and pieces.

I will try to do the rest later, hands getting tired.

Excellent post

Yes the Bible says The Nation of Israel, they are they chosen ones, from a historical viewpoint and a biblical one that is the Jewish state.

One of my college professors asked me once if God was perfect, i replied "yes", he then said in all ways is God perfect I once again replied "yes". He then asked me one last question he said "if God is perfect then his attitude would be perfect, and he would never have to change his mind or contridict himself", I said "yes" he then "said so why would God be unforgiving, toy with the lives of those who loved him so, produce plaques, destroy citys, slay the first born child of an entire nation, then decide well I think I know longer need to be a mean unforgiving God instead I shall be loving and forgiving God by aborting his own child". I had no answer then.

My answer today would be faith.

For me the answer for ever question I asked is faith.

Translation and interpetation can mean that hundreds of things were left out or mis translated.

[Playboy5]

I agree Redneck!

[Crossbones]

Excellent post

Yes the Bible says The Nation of Israel, they are they chosen ones, from a historical viewpoint and a biblical one that is the Jewish state.

One of my college professors asked me once if God was perfect, i replied "yes", he then said in all ways is God perfect I once again replied "yes". He then asked me one last question he said "if God is perfect then his attitude would be perfect, and he would never have to change his mind or contridict himself", I said "yes" he then "said so why would God be unforgiving, toy with the lives of those who loved him so, produce plaques, destroy citys, slay the first born child of an entire nation, then decide well I think I know longer need to be a mean unforgiving God instead I shall be loving and forgiving God by aborting his own child". I had no answer then.

My answer today would be faith.

For me the answer for ever question I asked is faith.

Translation and interpetation can mean that hundreds of things were left out or mis translated.

Thanks, I will try to go back and work on a few of the other ? in the first post before I respond too your other post.
8. I believe from my study of the Word that alot of churchs have taken I Corinthians 11:15 out of text. Again, you have to know who is doing the talking: Which would be the Apostle Paul: Who they are talking too: Which would be the church at Corinth: And what they are talking about: which would be, the church of Corinth was have problems within the church because the converted Jews (now Christians) and the Gentiles (now Christians) differed in opinion on the old laws ( Mosaic Laws). Again you have to look at the entire text, not just a line here and there. you are right history does tell us of women cutting there hair and it was against the mosaic law, Their hair was used to cover their face when they went to the temple to pray. But Paul was using this as an example too the church because they understood that type of example. If you read futher on 11:16, Paul says " we have no such custom, neither the churches of God." He is basically saying, If you want to leave your hair long, leave it, if you want to cut it, then cut it. None of that should come between the members at the church of Corinth.

[cards_athlete]

This thread is simply incredible. Every post (with the exception of a few, and I'm sure you will know which ones) I have enjoyed reading. From every opinion in here, my opinion is a mixture of so many different things. The Bible has alot to do with interpretation. God loves each and every one of us I do believe, whether you be a homosexual or not. There are a lot of things in the Bible that do contradict itself, and Im not saying everything in IT does, but there are some.
No one in this world can understand fully what the Bible means. You can use a webster's dictionary or use the Bible's dictionary, but it all depends on how you take it, and your understanding of what it means. Different points of view comes into play, and everyone has their own opinions. I'm not going to close my mind to a person who has different beliefs, for I would want them to listen to me as I would them. I think that if a gay person truly believes in God, knows that Jesus died on the cross for our sins, and loves one another, then I think they have a possibillity of still going to Heaven. I know that will step on some people's toes in here, and Im sure some people will show me Bible verses telling me that a homosexual can not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. I will continue to be open minded and listen to anyone who may show me this. I'm just saying that this is my belief, my opinion, and everyone has their own. This is my belief after the way I have came to interpret the Bible.

[Redneck]

^ That is the kind of mature posts that they were talking about. Good job.

That's my opinion tribe. I don't think it's mature or immature if that's what someone believes. I don't agree with homosexuality, I think it's wrong and discusting.

[Midee1]

That's my opinion tribe. I don't think it's mature or immature if that's what someone believes. I don't agree with homosexuality, I think it's wrong and discusting.

But all you said was Lexington has gone to hell. I guess Flatwoods where I live has gone to hell. There is a gay couple that live a few blocks from me. I have no problem saying that I have partied with them and they are good people. I am secure enough to tell everyone that I am wearing my pink T shirt while I am typing this as well.

[thetribe]

Pikeville has gone all to Hell in a hand basket too in that case Midee. There are GAYS here, can you believe it? Ewwwwww.

[Doc Holliday]

Thanks, I will try to go back and work on a few of the other ? in the first post before I respond too your other post.
8. I believe from my study of the Word that alot of churchs have taken I Corinthians 11:15 out of text. Again, you have to know who is doing the talking: Which would be the Apostle Paul: Who they are talking too: Which would be the church at Corinth: And what they are talking about: which would be, the church of Corinth was have problems within the church because the converted Jews (now Christians) and the Gentiles (now Christians) differed in opinion on the old laws ( Mosaic Laws). Again you have to look at the entire text, not just a line here and there. you are right history does tell us of women cutting there hair and it was against the mosaic law, Their hair was used to cover their face when they went to the temple to pray. But Paul was using this as an example too the church because they understood that type of example. If you read futher on 11:16, Paul says " we have no such custom, neither the churches of God." He is basically saying, If you want to leave your hair long, leave it, if you want to cut it, then cut it. None of that should come between the members at the church of Corinth.

How I do agree that we shouldnt look at one verse but you know as well as I that churchs, members as well as preachers dont always do that.

Not just that it was against mosaic law but that prostitutes shaved their heads during that time, as well as followers one of the most prominent greco/roman gods was Dionysus, the god of wine, which was especially popular among women. those worshipers shaved their heads,my professors at both schools said the same thing concerning this. It was a statement against prostitution, and pagan worship, and that was the historical interpretation. Your interpretation is leave it or cut it. Old Regulars on the other hand basically say that it a shame to for a woman to cut her glory and should remain long.

This actually made me think of something that happened with some of my relatives several years ago. I had a great aunt, and uncle who were chastising their 2 teenagers sons over the way the dressed, and the way they had let their hair grow down past their shoulders, saying things like you look like a girl, and a derogatory name for a homosexual, etc, etc. To which my cousin went into the living room and took down a picture from the mantle of their home brought it into the kitchen and said "OK Mom, look at this painting of Jesus, now are you saying that he looks like a ...........". To which my aunt said "you know your hair doesn't look all that bad". I suppose she experienced what is known as a paradigm shift.

My Aunt never ever said another thing to them about their hair.

[Old school Dawg]

We have no such customs, neither the churches of God.This was spoken by god, inspired by God and I think it is really simple in its meaning.Hair should not be something that comes between members.I also think it really really should not come between someone who is a saved member of a church and someone who is not.Another question,,Can your hair affect your witness to someone else?

[Armchair QB]

Guys, homosexuality according to the Bible is a sin; HOWEVER, the sin that will send you to Hell is the sin of unbelief. We (as Christians) tend to pick on homosexuals because it is appalling to most. But they are no different from the guy or gal next door who are good people, who pay there bills, obey the law, and choose not to believe the Bible Gods Holy word and trust Christ as their savior. There are only two groups, believers and unbelievers. Believers go to Heaven, unbelievers go to Hell. Good News can be found in John 3, 16. " For God so Loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that WHOSOEVER believeth on him, should not perish but have everlasting life."

I hope nobody takes this as a message of hate because I feel that homsexuality is a sin. I feel that because of my beliefs, if I failed to point out what i believe, then that would be hate and not love.

God Bless you.

[Old school Dawg]

I agree with your whole post armchair QB,so I will say to you,,Amen Brother and God Bless!!