[Hoot Gibson]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/...story.html
I’ve been quiet for a while, because TRT you sorta made me nauseous with the way you treat CardFan, but then turn around and want to quote scriptures. You are the worst kind of hypocrite. But anyway, you won’t accept it, but here’s a rebuttal to your HCQ love. And I won’t be posting on anymore political threads here, I’m over it, so here is my final take. If anyone cannot see that Trump specifically, (not the Republican Party as a whole, just this guy), is what he is, which is a narcissistic, unqualified, petulant, sexist, wah-wah-wah baby, well.....that’s on you. He may very well get four more years, and that’s fine with me if he does, half our country is going to violently hate every president going forward no matter who they are, it’s just the new reality. But this guy is the worst of all time, a disgrace to be leading the free world. Which he no longer does because he has turned into a laughingstock with most of our allies. Mic drop.

It is very interesting to see liberal Democrats complaining that Trump has turned this nation into a laughingstock as they prepare to nominate a hair sniffing moron, who is very obviously suffering from an age-related mental disease, as their presidential nominee.

Former Vice President Joe Biden's latest blunder occurred during a virtual roundtable about the impact of the new coronavirus outbreak when he claimed the pandemic cost the "lives of millions of people."

While making his introductory remarks during a Thursday discussion with governors from Michigan, New Jersey and Connecticut, Biden said America was in the middle of a pandemic that cost more than 85,000 jobs and the "lives of millions of people." However, it's likely what Biden meant was that the outbreak has cost 85,000 lives and millions of jobs.

https://www.newsweek.com/another-biden-g...es-1504366

Biden is employing the only campaign strategy that has any chance of succeeding - hiding out in his basement. As was the case with Hillary Clinton, the more often Biden appears live in public with his mouth open, the worse his chances of winning the election will be.

While President Donald Trump traveled to the battleground state of Arizona this week, his Democratic opponent for the White House, Joe Biden, campaigned from his basement as he has done throughout the coronavirus pandemic.

Those optics have some Democrats increasingly concerned.

The freeze on in-person campaigning during the outbreak has had an upside for Biden, giving the former vice president more time to court donors and shielding him from on-the-trail gaffes.

https://www.amny.com/nation/as-trump-ret...-basement/

[TheRealThing]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/...story.html
I’ve been quiet for a while, because TRT you sorta made me nauseous with the way you treat CardFan, but then turn around and want to quote scriptures. You are the worst kind of hypocrite. But anyway, you won’t accept it, but here’s a rebuttal to your HCQ love. And I won’t be posting on anymore political threads here, I’m over it, so here is my final take. If anyone cannot see that Trump specifically, (not the Republican Party as a whole, just this guy), is what he is, which is a narcissistic, unqualified, petulant, sexist, wah-wah-wah baby, well.....that’s on you. He may very well get four more years, and that’s fine with me if he does, half our country is going to violently hate every president going forward no matter who they are, it’s just the new reality. But this guy is the worst of all time, a disgrace to be leading the free world. Which he no longer does because he has turned into a laughingstock with most of our allies. Mic drop.

Okay, your heart is with Cardfan and so you're on his side. So be it. That doesn't change the fact that there is still right and wrong here. The epidemic has been politicized, there are going to be people out there denying what's being reported. Which is that DOCTORS, are out there in the world of the dying, prescribing HCQ and getting phenomenal results. And they're writing articles about it and in so doing, laying their professional careers on the line. That's no small thing. And the rest of the planet reporting the same results doesn't hurt their conclusions or their argument either, nor does the glowing gratitude of the patients delivered by using the drug.

Trump hasn't done one thing to deserve your ire. He's not wrong in what he says, and he hasn't been wrong in how he leads this land. In any case, not one person who walks has the moral right before God to judge the President's moral character. And to that end you obviously feel yourself worthy to judge myself as well. Nobody has to walk around with their choir robe on and their songbook open with a placid smile to be a Christian or to please God. God's people are to resist the lies, and point out the truth. AFTR the violent hate you mention? well that my friend is due to the new reality you mention. We're in the end of it all, so I ask you a question-- what is your plan? When it does get violent, and it will, you just going to wait it out and when you find yourself standing at the judgment, tell God that you think you're much better than that hypocrite Real Thing, or that racist Trump? We are each answerable for ourselves before God, and those who are saved know that they are saved going in. Though the lost hold out hope that they will be given a pass, in their hearts they know that they're not right before God. It's still easier for them to despise the saved than face the fact that they are gong to have to meet the Lord at the judgment. I say the things I do that without apology, and frankly if anything, I would be more worried that I don't do that often enough than that I go too far.

Life here on earth is all designed to give all men that one supremely significant opportunity. That's the whole of it. We are here to make a choice, for or against The One true God Who created us. No amount of writhing or disputing can change or alter that fact.

But to the new reality. I remember the time, as does Mr Trump, before that new reality. And that time was much sweeter, the debate was much tamer, the future was much brighter, and people were far more happy. We've eroded, and all Trump or the right are guilty of, is pointing out where we (America) left the path. And consider the situation for our having left that path, is it not hopeless? Conservatives have done nothing but sound the alarm, and they're hated for it. And I got a little flash for you. I don't hate Cardfan and I don't hate you. The argument isn't about Dems and Republicans, it's about what's true. In the past 50 years the left have tried diligently to redefine what is true, but try to understand. I saw it all go down.

Cardfan. Speaks categorically on matters for which there is zero evidence in support, and tries to give as good as he gets. I would guess that if Cardfan were getting the best of me you'd be all in. But of the thousands which have died a horrible death to CV, their lungs literally filling with sticky goo. How many of them could have been saved is on the heads of those who have denied them treatment on political grounds.

[TheRealThing]

"The Michigan Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs issued an order Wednesday warning physicians against writing prescriptions “without a legitimate medical purpose” and instructing pharmacists to evaluate the “legitimacy” of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine prescriptions."
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/202...ychloroqu/


Did you catch that subtle directive to pharmacists? In addition to the direct threat of the loss of their license to practice, if a doc prescribes HCQ the pharmacist can deny their script. Not to mention a little head's-up to the Gov's office.

This thing is not only political it is nuclear political. And it's not just Michigan.

[doubledown]

If prescribed the above mentioned antibiotic what business does government have to be involved or question?

[TheRealThing]

^^ In a word, none. But this is in part what Republicans warned about when ObamaCare was rammed through in the first place. Government bureaucrats making decisions about medical care which are destructive. No doctor should be under threat or hampered in his efforts to heal the sick, especially not by government.

Take the case of the doctor who was prosecuted by the government for performing heart catheterizations. As heart diagnostics go, nothing can touch the efficiency and revelatory nature of a heart cath. End of story. The doctor and therefor the patient armed with such information stands a much greater chance of success. But health insurance companies require rather rigorous qualifying conditions be met prior to authorizing heart caths. Why? Because they are expensive and insurance companies are worried about making a sizable profit. They push the idea that caths can usually be put off for a while and want people to be sicker before letting them get a catheterization. Insurance companies are willing to risk the lives of their policy holders if their mortality tables dictate. Older people sometimes die of other causes in the interim you see. At any rate doctors make darn sure they follow the rules these days, you can bet.

The US medicare program suffers the loss of millions of dollars annually due to fraud. Not from unethical docs so much, but they are much easier to catch and prosecute. I guess the idea is to scare all the rest of the doctors from fraud or possibly healing those who aren't quite at death's door yet. The best time to perform any procedure is when the patient is yet in good health.

That's just one example. You asked a very logical question and one that more people should be asking.

[doubledown]

Thanks for answering and agree more intervention by government the more complicated life is.

[Cardfan1]

"The Michigan Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs issued an order Wednesday warning physicians against writing prescriptions “without a legitimate medical purpose” and instructing pharmacists to evaluate the “legitimacy” of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine prescriptions."
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/202...ychloroqu/


Did you catch that subtle directive to pharmacists? In addition to the direct threat of the loss of their license to practice, if a doc prescribes HCQ the pharmacist can deny their script. Not to mention a little head's-up to the Gov's office.

This thing is not only political it is nuclear political. And it's not just Michigan.

That article is dated March 29th. Michigan knew that early there were real concerns with Dr. Trump's prescription to the nation. It took the FDA a month before they were able to admit it, so if we're talking about politics and optics maybe we should be wondering why the federal administration waited a month to issue a warning.

[Cardfan1]

^^ In a word, none. But this is in part what Republicans warned about when ObamaCare was rammed through in the first place. Government bureaucrats making decisions about medical care which are destructive. No doctor should be under threat or hampered in his efforts to heal the sick, especially not by government.

Take the case of the doctor who was prosecuted by the government for performing heart catheterizations. As heart diagnostics go, nothing can touch the efficiency and revelatory nature of a heart cath. End of story. The doctor and therefor the patient armed with such information stands a much greater chance of success. But health insurance companies require rather rigorous qualifying conditions be met prior to authorizing heart caths. Why? Because they are expensive and insurance companies are worried about making a sizable profit. They push the idea that caths can usually be put off for a while and want people to be sicker before letting them get a catheterization. Insurance companies are willing to risk the lives of their policy holders if their mortality tables dictate. Older people sometimes die of other causes in the interim you see. At any rate doctors make darn sure they follow the rules these days, you can bet.

The US medicare program suffers the loss of millions of dollars annually due to fraud. Not from unethical docs so much, but they are much easier to catch and prosecute. I guess the idea is to scare all the rest of the doctors from fraud or possibly healing those who aren't quite at death's door yet. The best time to perform any procedure is when the patient is yet in good health.

That's just one example. You asked a very logical question and one that more people should be asking.

You just used insurance bureaucracy and fraud to explain why the government should not be in healthcare. Neither of those examples are the government's fault.

[Cardfan1]

If prescribed the above mentioned antibiotic what business does government have to be involved or question?

The government has to be involved in approving treatments and procedures the medical community practices on its citizens if not we would have quacks all over the nation sucking people in to try any treatment or operation. All doctors and pharmacists can't be trusted. Some have motives outside of the wellness of their patients, which goes for every profession, and is why we have governing bodies creating and policing standards for those folks.

[Cardfan1]

Okay, your heart is with Cardfan and so you're on his side. So be it. That doesn't change the fact that there is still right and wrong here. The epidemic has been politicized, there are going to be people out there denying what's being reported. Which is that DOCTORS, are out there in the world of the dying, prescribing HCQ and getting phenomenal results. And they're writing articles about it and in so doing, laying their professional careers on the line. That's no small thing. And the rest of the planet reporting the same results doesn't hurt their conclusions or their argument either, nor does the glowing gratitude of the patients delivered by using the drug.

Trump hasn't done one thing to deserve your ire. He's not wrong in what he says, and he hasn't been wrong in how he leads this land. In any case, not one person who walks has the moral right before God to judge the President's moral character. And to that end you obviously feel yourself worthy to judge myself as well. Nobody has to walk around with their choir robe on and their songbook open with a placid smile to be a Christian or to please God. God's people are to resist the lies, and point out the truth. AFTR the violent hate you mention? well that my friend is due to the new reality you mention. We're in the end of it all, so I ask you a question-- what is your plan? When it does get violent, and it will, you just going to wait it out and when you find yourself standing at the judgment, tell God that you think you're much better than that hypocrite Real Thing, or that racist Trump? We are each answerable for ourselves before God, and those who are saved know that they are saved going in. Though the lost hold out hope that they will be given a pass, in their hearts they know that they're not right before God. It's still easier for them to despise the saved than face the fact that they are gong to have to meet the Lord at the judgment. I say the things I do that without apology, and frankly if anything, I would be more worried that I don't do that often enough than that I go too far.

Life here on earth is all designed to give all men that one supremely significant opportunity. That's the whole of it. We are here to make a choice, for or against The One true God Who created us. No amount of writhing or disputing can change or alter that fact.

But to the new reality. I remember the time, as does Mr Trump, before that new reality. And that time was much sweeter, the debate was much tamer, the future was much brighter, and people were far more happy. We've eroded, and all Trump or the right are guilty of, is pointing out where we (America) left the path. And consider the situation for our having left that path, is it not hopeless? Conservatives have done nothing but sound the alarm, and they're hated for it. And I got a little flash for you. I don't hate Cardfan and I don't hate you. The argument isn't about Dems and Republicans, it's about what's true. In the past 50 years the left have tried diligently to redefine what is true, but try to understand. I saw it all go down.

Cardfan. Speaks categorically on matters for which there is zero evidence in support, and tries to give as good as he gets. I would guess that if Cardfan were getting the best of me you'd be all in. But of the thousands which have died a horrible death to CV, their lungs literally filling with sticky goo. How many of them could have been saved is on the heads of those who have denied them treatment on political grounds.

When was the last time Trump mentioned HCQ? :eyeroll:
If I would have made such a successful prescription, I would have it on my banners. "First in HCQ!"
Not a peep in at least 2 weeks maybe more. Maybe since April 29th when the FDA sent out a warning. Or maybe it was April 21st when the White House council led by real doctors Birx and Fauci recommended against using the drug combination. There is evidence for both of those things.
I know this about DJT if he think he is right about something and people are wrong he won't leave it alone. Something shut him up.

Zero evidence is when you stand at podium and tell the nation to "take it, what do you got to lose" when none of your panel of medical doctors suggested you do that. Then the Trump sycophants run out and try to create a narrative supporting his claim, and worse you have doctors trying to make a name or curry favor with the president gambling with their patients' lives.

Another post with too much to unpack for a "Fauci" thread.

[TheRealThing]

That article is dated March 29th. Michigan knew that early there were real concerns with Dr. Trump's prescription to the nation. It took the FDA a month before they were able to admit it, so if we're talking about politics and optics maybe we should be wondering why the federal administration waited a month to issue a warning.

So you take the date of the article, toss the rest away, and with that we get all that baloney about the FDA and the implied superior insight of Michigan's governor huh? The fact that medicine is being politicized is beyond question, which will prove to be disastrous.

But you're not getting away with the sidestep. Docs are not prescribing HCQ in many cases because politicians have their practice under threat for doing so. Doctors, like Fauci, should never be in a position to tell Presidents how to govern; nor should Presidents or Governors, be in a position to tell docs how to practice medicine.

We're by far not the exception but my family, which stretches across this nation, are going through a very hard time right now. None of us can be seen for health concerns, some of which are quite serious and potentially if not likely, with serious ramifications. Literally millions are in the same boat and you're on here rah-rahing for the cause.

[TheRealThing]

When was the last time Trump mentioned HCQ? :eyeroll:
If I would have made such a successful prescription, I would have it on my banners. "First in HCQ!"
Not a peep in at least 2 weeks maybe more. Maybe since April 29th when the FDA sent out a warning. Or maybe it was April 21st when the White House council led by real doctors Birx and Fauci recommended against using the drug combination. There is evidence for both of those things.
I know this about DJT if he think he is right about something and people are wrong he won't leave it alone. Something shut him up.

Zero evidence is when you stand at podium and tell the nation to "take it, what do you got to lose" when none of your panel of medical doctors suggested you do that. Then the Trump sycophants run out and try to create a narrative supporting his claim, and worse you have doctors trying to make a name or curry favor with the president gambling with their patients' lives.

Another post with too much to unpack for a "Fauci" thread.

Ask a mod or a Admin if you like, but you're not on this forum to decide what is or is not too much to unpack about the first darn thing.

[TheRealThing]

You just used insurance bureaucracy and fraud to explain why the government should not be in healthcare. Neither of those examples are the government's fault.

Nope, wrong again, not by a long shot. I used government bureaucracy to explain why the government should not be in healthcare, as did those Republicans I cited for having made the warning in the first place back in 2010 when all this stuff was a-rage.

Now, want to try again?

[Cardfan1]

Nope, wrong again, not by a long shot. I used government bureaucracy to explain why the government should not be in healthcare, as did those Republicans I cited for having made the warning in the first place back in 2010 when all this stuff was a-rage.

Now, want to try again?

You said this.

Government bureaucrats making decisions about medical care which are destructive.


Here are your points.

Because they are expensive and insurance companies are worried about making a sizable profit. They push the idea that caths can usually be put off for a while and want people to be sicker before letting them get a catheterization. Insurance companies are willing to risk the lives of their policy holders if their mortality tables dictate.

The US medicare program suffers the loss of millions of dollars annually due to fraud. Not from unethical docs so much, but they are much easier to catch and prosecute.

Maybe you should try again, because nothing in this post demonstrates how government bureaucrats are destroying healthcare in America.

You make a good argument on how insurance companies and criminals are destructive though. Kudos.

[TheRealThing]

You said I called out insurance bureaucrats-- Note of order; you are Cardfan, correct?

You just used insurance bureaucracy and fraud to explain why the government should not be in healthcare. Neither of those examples are the government's fault.

Then I had to quote you--- quoting me, where you concede that I actually said it was government (not insurance bureaucracy now mind you) but government bureaucrats--

You said this.

Government bureaucrats making decisions about medical care which are destructive.


Here are your points.

Because they are expensive and insurance companies are worried about making a sizable profit. They push the idea that caths can usually be put off for a while and want people to be sicker before letting them get a catheterization. Insurance companies are willing to risk the lives of their policy holders if their mortality tables dictate.

The US medicare program suffers the loss of millions of dollars annually due to fraud. Not from unethical docs so much, but they are much easier to catch and prosecute.

Maybe you should try again, because nothing in this post demonstrates how government bureaucrats are destroying healthcare in America.

You make a good argument on how insurance companies and criminals are destructive though. Kudos.

And now you're still trying to dodge? Are you serious?

[Cardfan1]

You said I called out insurance bureaucrats-- Note of order; you are Cardfan, correct?

Then I had to quote you--- quoting me, where you concede that I actually said it was government (not insurance bureaucracy now mind you) but government bureaucrats--

And now you're still trying to dodge? Are you serious?

:hilarious:

Your evidence supports insurance bureaucracy and fraud are our biggest problems in healthcare. There is no evidence for government bureaucracy. I am not arguing your word choice just the fact you have nothing supporting your main point of government is ruining healthcare.

Sorry, I pointed it out. Please carry on.

[TheRealThing]

:hilarious:

Your evidence supports insurance bureaucracy and fraud are our biggest problems in healthcare. There is no evidence for government bureaucracy. I am not arguing your word choice just the fact you have nothing supporting your main point of government is ruining healthcare.

Sorry, I pointed it out. Please carry on.

Yeah well, I am sorry for your sake that you think you pointed something out. And to that end I am quite certain, that you will carry on.