[dawgbyte02]

First of all chaffins is not playing this year, richardson intercepted the pass, luke blocked a lineman #79 I beleave knoked him flat of his back and knocked his helment off. The kid got right up, he was attempting to make the tackle on richardson. From what bl athletic direction told me this is a new rule just passed this past monday for targeting a player it will be appealed on Monday. Bl and coach cecil are both going to appleal on lukes behave. The game was being filmed so I am sure it will get overturned, just a case of a new reff. Over reacting to a good hit.

good info. so players most likely across the state are not aware of new rule that has been in effect for 4 days. there is something to be said for BOTH coaches appealing. obviously in their eyes an injustice.

[Dawg Family]

All I could find on the rule was that in collage it’s a 15 yard penalty and ejection. But in high school it just shows it being a 15 yard penalty but KHSAA might have taken it further and imposed the player ejection. But this is a new rule imposed on High School nationwide and each state might be just a little different with the penalty. But the Rule is any contact above the shoulders with your helmet, shoulder pads, Four arm, elbow, or fist Basically no contact of any kind above the shoulders. Like you guys have said this will be a rule that everyone will have to learn and get used to. That’s another reason for an official scrimmage to help get all the kinks & bugs worked out before the season starts. chemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

[dawgbyte02]

I thought it was a great block. The player he hit was much bigger than him and I really thought it was clean. It looked bad because the player's helmet went flying but still....4 games? 4 f&#kin games for a crack back block? Player safety or not if that costs someone four games then that is absolutely ridiculous. I do feel those refs at that scrimmage should be suspended for the season. They were bat shit crazy and I hope they don't get to ref any more LC games or any other. Just terrible.

just saw hudl vid of play. if that is a bad block we need to shut down football today. that was a clean block on a opponent trying to make play on the player that intercepted. i agree that players helmet flying off most likely led to call. need a better chin strap.

[dawgbyte02]

All I could find on the rule was that in collage it’s a 15 yard penalty and ejection. But in high school it just shows it being a 15 yard penalty but KHSAA might have taken it further and imposed the player ejection. But this is a new rule imposed on High School nationwide and each state might be just a little different with the penalty. But the Rule is any contact above the shoulders with your helmet, shoulder pads, Four arm, elbow, or fist Basically no contact of any kind above the shoulders. Like you guys have said this will be a rule that everyone will have to learn and get used to. That’s another reason for an official scrimmage to help get all the kinks & bugs worked out before the season starts. chemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

yeah but the problem is that it is strictly a judgement call that has the possibility of ending a players season. and it is above the SHOULDER not the shoulder pad. Could be a game changing season.

[dawgbyte02]

look up luke schaeffer hudl. shows hit. judge for yourself. looks clean to me at full speed.

[0ff The Chain]

Watched that hit a dozen times in slo-mo. The BL player was several inches taller than him and he didn't leave his feet on the hit either...so I wonder how that hit was high? I guess they are suppose to either not block anyone or blow someone's knee out. I could understand that in full speed the ref may have made a human error but you can't make an ejection call on something unless you are 100% sure they player was intentionally trying to hurt someone. If that ref thinks that hit was an intentional dirty play then he needs to lay off the paint huffing. Refs make mistakes sometimes but this......this call wasn't even close to being reasonable.

[lcgrad2002]

I watched the video several times, looked like a clean hit to me. It was a little high, but it's football.

[LCHSbulldogsalum]

Watched that hit a dozen times in slo-mo. The BL player was several inches taller than him and he didn't leave his feet on the hit either...so I wonder how that hit was high? I guess they are suppose to either not block anyone or blow someone's knee out. I could understand that in full speed the ref may have made a human error but you can't make an ejection call on something unless you are 100% sure they player was intentionally trying to hurt someone. If that ref thinks that hit was an intentional dirty play then he needs to lay off the paint huffing. Refs make mistakes sometimes but this......this call wasn't even close to being reasonable.

Watched the hit myself. Live and on video. I will say this, if he were in college or pros he would have been ejected for the hit. Like it or not, those blocks/hits are now illegal in football. The old-fashioned "crack back" blocks are a thing of the past now. I don't blame the kid for going for the block/hit. Those of us who have played know what it's like to get out there and "in the game" during these type of moments. If you start thinking like a robot and deciding what to do and not to do, the play is done over and your standing there with your thumb up your butt.

But in saying that, it is football and there are some risks involved when you sign up to play. It's a not a "contact" sport, it is a COLLISION sport. In 25 years, we all may see just a form of flag-football like in collegiate intramural instead of tackle football.

[Dawgfan123]

Enough of the HIT, Whae about the game itself. I didn't get to go.

[Do-double-gg]

Ok I got to watch the game last night on Hudl and here is what I think. I want to start by saying that BL had no chance and it wasn't a good game to judge anything by, but here goes. Offensively the O line looked very good. This is probably the biggest and strongest O line since 2009 IMO. I think after they get a few kinks worked out and a game or two under their belts they could be a very good group. I don't think big number 77 was even at the game because of a death in the family and he makes the lines even better. Little number #25 is a hard runner with a low center of gravity just like last year he is going to be a workhorse. One person who probably stood out the most to me on offense was #5 who I assume is Zach Keesee. Why the heck was this kid not running the ball some last season. This kid has good speed, quickness and very good cuts and moves. #11 Timmy Dalton is just like the last few seasons, the best athlete on the field and I hope to see the ball in his hands more this year. #7 Grant Kiser made some good throws and is running as hard as ever, his ability to run is like a 12th man on the field at all times.
Now for the defense. I think we have a much better defense this year. Everyone was swarming to the ball and a lot of gang tackling and I love it. The linebackers looked better then I expected after loosing the Perry kid from last season. I saw a lot more kids going to the ball and getting the angle instead of waiting for the ball to come to them. The defense as a whole just looks more aggressive then last season. A lot of people knifing into lanes and getting in the backfield. We have a lot of good athletes in the defensive backfield and I think we will see a lot of interceptions this season against passing teams. I honestly believe that looking at our schedule and if things progress as they should we will probably go through the 1st half of the schedule like a hot knife through butter. The only team that may give us problems like last year is Fairview. The 2nd half of the schedule is a tough one with no real easy games. You can laugh if you want but I could see a 9-1 season if this team continues to get better and I don't see anything worse then 8-2.
:Thumbs:

[Do-double-gg]

Another kid who stood out to me was #15. This kid was making plays on both sides of the ball and he has pretty good hands. The roster has #15 as Jacob Wellman. As for the hit, I saw it in slow motion zoomed in. He put his helmet and shoulder pads right in the kids shoulder and armpit area. If the KHSAA reviews this it will be overturned because that was not a helmet to helmet hit. It was a very hard block and I don't think the kid even had his helmet strapped on which is another safety issue all in itself.

[StrayBullet]

How do you view the scrimmage online? I keep looking for the link on Hudl but can't find anything for it.

[Do-double-gg]

How do you view the scrimmage online? I keep looking for the link on Hudl but can't find anything for it.

I have a family member who is close to the team. You would need a username and password to get in the Bulldogs team Hudl account. Usually a few days after a game it will be posted on the public Hudl site but it will only be highlights.

[Do-double-gg]

Go to Google and type in Lawrence County Bulldogs Hudl and you can see highlights of the last few years. I honestly don't think they post scrimmage games on the public site though.

[0ff The Chain]

Watched the hit myself. Live and on video. I will say this, if he were in college or pros he would have been ejected for the hit. Like it or not, those blocks/hits are now illegal in football. The old-fashioned "crack back" blocks are a thing of the past now. I don't blame the kid for going for the block/hit. Those of us who have played know what it's like to get out there and "in the game" during these type of moments. If you start thinking like a robot and deciding what to do and not to do, the play is done over and your standing there with your thumb up your butt.

But in saying that, it is football and there are some risks involved when you sign up to play. It's a not a "contact" sport, it is a COLLISION sport. In 25 years, we all may see just a form of flag-football like in collegiate intramural instead of tackle football.

I don't think that would or should be an ejection on any level of football. Worse case scenario should be a personal foul of 15 yards if anything. Maybe if the kid already had a personal foul penalty then maybe an ejection if the ref thought it was an intentional hit to hurt someone. It shouldn't have been an automatic ejection for a great block. If the BL player was downfield away from the play and had no chance of making a tackle then yeah it could be seen as a dirty hit but he was closing in with an angle on the player with ball and wasn't watching for any oncoming blocks and got pasted.I know most fans don't want to admit when their team makes penalties but honestly anyone at that game would have to say those refs were blatantly one sided and that call is 100% horse sh*t.

[dawgbyte02]

Watched the hit myself. Live and on video. I will say this, if he were in college or pros he would have been ejected for the hit. Like it or not, those blocks/hits are now illegal in football. The old-fashioned "crack back" blocks are a thing of the past now. I don't blame the kid for going for the block/hit. Those of us who have played know what it's like to get out there and "in the game" during these type of moments. If you start thinking like a robot and deciding what to do and not to do, the play is done over and your standing there with your thumb up your butt.

But in saying that, it is football and there are some risks involved when you sign up to play. It's a not a "contact" sport, it is a COLLISION sport. In 25 years, we all may see just a form of flag-football like in collegiate intramural instead of tackle football.

The ref called targeting a defenseless player. new rule. automatic ejection. this was not a crack back block. this was a change of possession block of a player pursuing the player that intercepted the ball. this was not even a block from the side. if this a penalty then every time the ball is snapped all offensive and defensive lineman should be ejected. my point is regardless of what teams are playing, this new rule could possibly lead to many players getting ejected on a bad judgement call. i understand and agree with the intent of the rule to lessen injuries. but it is wide open to be interpreted by refs, as all calls, differently. the difference is a bad call on holding, pass interference or illegal procedure does not get a 2 game suspension. the punishment does not fit crime.

[dawgbyte02]

Another kid who stood out to me was #15. This kid was making plays on both sides of the ball and he has pretty good hands. The roster has #15 as Jacob Wellman. As for the hit, I saw it in slow motion zoomed in. He put his helmet and shoulder pads right in the kids shoulder and armpit area. If the KHSAA reviews this it will be overturned because that was not a helmet to helmet hit. It was a very hard block and I don't think the kid even had his helmet strapped on which is another safety issue all in itself.

I think the ref saw the helmet come off and threw the flag.

[Ref Devil]

I watched the video several times, looked like a clean hit to me. It was a little high, but it's football.

It is not the same football that we all played years ago. This game is rapidly changing and will continue to change. If you watch plays and judge hits with this mentality, you will be wrong 90% of the time. The big hit and the glamour associated with them are gone! New techniques must be taught to avoid penalties. It is the coaches responsibility to avoid these fouls.

[Ref Devil]

good info. so players most likely across the state are not aware of new rule that has been in effect for 4 days. there is something to be said for BOTH coaches appealing. obviously in their eyes an injustice.

No, not good info. In fact, everything that has been said on this thread has been incorrect. Every single thing! Come on guys, you should know that if you hear something in the stands then you can pretty much guarantee that it's incorrect information and that's exactly what has happened here. I will explain the rules to you and then tell you what the officials on the field decided. Yes, I said officials as in plural cause it was a crew decision.

First, forget what you heard about this new rule that only 4 days old cause that's wrong. That's just flat out false. New rules are announced usually by April and also targeting rule was implemented last season in 2014. So, this is the 2nd year of this rule in high school. Now, follow this.......

1. Illegal Helmet Contact was a major focus point 3 years ago and we knew change was coming. It is no longer the game we all grew up playing and it will never be again. If you judge hits and such with that type of mentality then you might as well stop watching football because you're always go I g to be wrong on things. Its just the way it is now. Whether you like it or not, it's just the way it is. Period.

2. Targeting was implemented in high school last year. Targeting is a foul, just like holding, encroachment, pass interference, etc. The rule states that targeting is an act in which a player takes aim and initiates contact to an opponent above the shoulders with the helmet, forearm, hand, fist, elbow, or shoulders. You can going "Targeting Officials Training" if you want to find videos.

3. Defenseless Player definition was also implemented last year. This is not a foul though, it is simply a definition and a way to describe a player who is not focused on the hit coming. An example would be a receiver coming down from trying to catch a pass or a ball carrier whose forward progress has been stopped and he is being driven back. If those example are hit with a viscious "launch style" or "missile style" hit then you could have a flag for a Personal Foul against a defenders player. Its still would be a Personal Foul though or illegal helmet contact.

4. This is the change that occurred this year but it wasn't 4 days ago, that's for sure. It was back in March or April that this was announced.
This new rule deals with UNNECESSARY CONTACT AND EXCESSIVE CONTACT. This pertains a lot with blind side blocks (such as a crack back of peel back) and defenseless players. The rule says that no player shall hit another player which is deemed UNNECESSARY or EXCESSIVE which excites roughness. Players cannot use EXCESSIVE force when making blocks and anything that is above a normal, proper, and necessary block is now illegal, no matter where the contact occurs. So, this basically means that players can not deliver the big punishing hits that used to be glamourized and cheered when they occurred. Just because a player uses his shoulder and hits below the shoulders doesn't mean it's always legal now. If that player launches and tries to punish the other player with a big hit, no matter if the contact is below the shoulders of not, it is now a personal foul for unecessary roughness. If The hit is above the shoulders, then it's a targeting foul anyway. The days of the big blind side block are over!! They want those hits taken out of the game completely. The coaches must tell their players to use different techniques (like open hand blocking) and must use their heads when making a blind side block or a bit on a defenseless player. They cant go for the big glamour hit that everybody stands and cheers. They just can't do it anymore.

So, I hope this has helped explain these new rules over the past few years. Although, I may have just confused you more. Lol. The sad part about this whole thing is that officials are going to get bashed and slammed for doing what they're told because fans don't have a clue what's happening with these rules. And I can see Dickie Martin now mugging the officials because he is clueless and has no idea about these rules, or any rule for that matter. That guy is clueless about rules. If you want to learn more, go online and google this stuff or go on a YouTube and watch some of the officials training videos and you will be what is happening in the game.

Whether you like it or not, nobody cares. That's just the way it is. Nobody called me to ask my opinion either, so don't feel had. Its just the way the game is today. Hoped this helped some and FYI, don't listen to any fans tell ya about rules. Hell, a lot of officials don't know them either. I don't officiate anymore but I still like to keep up to date on stuff and rules. I'm glad I don't call anymore, it's getting really hard to officiate this game.

[dawgbyte02]

No, not good info. In fact, everything that has been said on this thread has been incorrect. Every single thing! Come on guys, you should know that if you hear something in the stands then you can pretty much guarantee that it's incorrect information and that's exactly what has happened here. I will explain the rules to you and then tell you what the officials on the field decided. Yes, I said officials as in plural cause it was a crew decision.

First, forget what you heard about this new rule that only 4 days old cause that's wrong. That's just flat out false. New rules are announced usually by April and also targeting rule was implemented last season in 2014. So, this is the 2nd year of this rule in high school. Now, follow this.......

1. Illegal Helmet Contact was a major focus point 3 years ago and we knew change was coming. It is no longer the game we all grew up playing and it will never be again. If you judge hits and such with that type of mentality then you might as well stop watching football because you're always go I g to be wrong on things. Its just the way it is now. Whether you like it or not, it's just the way it is. Period.

2. Targeting was implemented in high school last year. Targeting is a foul, just like holding, encroachment, pass interference, etc. The rule states that targeting is an act in which a player takes aim and initiates contact to an opponent above the shoulders with the helmet, forearm, hand, fist, elbow, or shoulders. You can going "Targeting Officials Training" if you want to find videos.

3. Defenseless Player definition was also implemented last year. This is not a foul though, it is simply a definition and a way to describe a player who is not focused on the hit coming. An example would be a receiver coming down from trying to catch a pass or a ball carrier whose forward progress has been stopped and he is being driven back. If those example are hit with a viscious "launch style" or "missile style" hit then you could have a flag for a Personal Foul against a defenders player. Its still would be a Personal Foul though or illegal helmet contact.

4. This is the change that occurred this year but it wasn't 4 days ago, that's for sure. It was back in March or April that this was announced.
This new rule deals with UNNECESSARY CONTACT AND EXCESSIVE CONTACT. This pertains a lot with blind side blocks (such as a crack back of peel back) and defenseless players. The rule says that no player shall hit another player which is deemed UNNECESSARY or EXCESSIVE which excites roughness. Players cannot use EXCESSIVE force when making blocks and anything that is above a normal, proper, and necessary block is now illegal, no matter where the contact occurs. So, this basically means that players can not deliver the big punishing hits that used to be glamourized and cheered when they occurred. Just because a player uses his shoulder and hits below the shoulders doesn't mean it's always legal now. If that player launches and tries to punish the other player with a big hit, no matter if the contact is below the shoulders of not, it is now a personal foul for unecessary roughness. If The hit is above the shoulders, then it's a targeting foul anyway. The days of the big blind side block are over!! They want those hits taken out of the game completely. The coaches must tell their players to use different techniques (like open hand blocking) and must use their heads when making a blind side block or a bit on a defenseless player. They cant go for the big glamour hit that everybody stands and cheers. They just can't do it anymore.

So, I hope this has helped explain these new rules over the past few years. Although, I may have just confused you more. Lol. The sad part about this whole thing is that officials are going to get bashed and slammed for doing what they're told because fans don't have a clue what's happening with these rules. And I can see Dickie Martin now mugging the officials because he is clueless and has no idea about these rules, or any rule for that matter. That guy is clueless about rules. If you want to learn more, go online and google this stuff or go on a YouTube and watch some of the officials training videos and you will be what is happening in the game.

Whether you like it or not, nobody cares. That's just the way it is. Nobody called me to ask my opinion either, so don't feel had. Its just the way the game is today. Hoped this helped some and FYI, don't listen to any fans tell ya about rules. Hell, a lot of officials don't know them either. I don't officiate anymore but I still like to keep up to date on stuff and rules. I'm glad I don't call anymore, it's getting really hard to officiate this game.

this is good info also. however if you watch the the vid this is not a blindside block. it is a straight up
block of a player attempting to tackle the player that intercepted the ball. i do not see a foul of any kind. actually i see a player that is very team oriented. this was not a hit on a defenseless player, not helmet to helmet, not malicious, not unnecessary. it was a bad call that resulted in a kid getting suspended for doing what he had been taught to do.

[Ref Devil]

this is good info also. however if you watch the the vid this is not a blindside block. it is a straight up
block of a player attempting to tackle the player that intercepted the ball. i do not see a foul of any kind. actually i see a player that is very team oriented. this was not a hit on a defenseless player, not helmet to helmet, not malicious, not unnecessary. it was a bad call that resulted in a kid getting suspended for doing what he had been taught to do.

I haven't seen the play, so I wasn't saying this was right or wrong. I was just explaining the rules because there was a lit of mis info going around this thread. I'll check out the play and get back with ya.

[Ref Devil]

this is good info also. however if you watch the the vid this is not a blindside block. it is a straight up
block of a player attempting to tackle the player that intercepted the ball. i do not see a foul of any kind. actually i see a player that is very team oriented. this was not a hit on a defenseless player, not helmet to helmet, not malicious, not unnecessary. it was a bad call that resulted in a kid getting suspended for doing what he had been taught to do.

The ref called targeting a defenseless player. new rule. automatic ejection. this was not a crack back block. this was a change of possession block of a player pursuing the player that intercepted the ball. this was not even a block from the side. if this a penalty then every time the ball is snapped all offensive and defensive lineman should be ejected. my point is regardless of what teams are playing, this new rule could possibly lead to many players getting ejected on a bad judgement call. i understand and agree with the intent of the rule to lessen injuries. but it is wide open to be interpreted by refs, as all calls, differently. the difference is a bad call on holding, pass interference or illegal procedure does not get a 2 game suspension. the punishment does not fit crime.

I'm sorry but you are incorrect. Targeting is not a new rule this year. Also, it would not be Targeting on a defenseless player, it's just simply Targeting. Defenseless Player is not a foul. Just a definition.

Also, Targeting is not an automatic ejection. Some of you are confusing bits and pieces of college or NFL rules and thinking it's the same in high school. There are over 200 differences between just high school and college, even more for the NFL. I'm sorry but almost everything said on this thread talking about these rules have been incorrect. Targeting is not a new rule. Please read my above post for CORRECT info.

[Dawgfan123]

Good info, if all is true, why was the kid ejected?

[dawgbyte02]

I'm sorry but you are incorrect. Targeting is not a new rule this year. Also, it would not be Targeting on a defenseless player, it's just simply Targeting. Defenseless Player is not a foul. Just a definition.

Also, Targeting is not an automatic ejection. Some of you are confusing bits and pieces of college or NFL rules and thinking it's the same in high school. There are over 200 differences between just high school and college, even more for the NFL. I'm sorry but almost everything said on this thread talking about these rules have been incorrect. Targeting is not a new rule. Please read my above post for CORRECT info.

after talking to several coaches, it appears the targeting rule does not involve ejection. their understanding of the rule would be a personal foul, 15 yard penalty. the ref's call was targeting and player ejected. as a ref why do you think player was ejected?

[StrayBullet]

So I'm wondering I haven't been able to view the video yet but isn't 4 games a little much???

[Do-double-gg]

It is not the same football that we all played years ago. This game is rapidly changing and will continue to change. If you watch plays and judge hits with this mentality, you will be wrong 90% of the time. The big hit and the glamour associated with them are gone! New techniques must be taught to avoid penalties. It is the coaches responsibility to avoid these fouls.

Honestly (and I love a big hit as much as the next person) I can't count how many times a Lawrence County player last season was going for a big hit only to miss or the player would spin or something and end up with a big gain. I say just wrap up the legs, take the man to the ground and be done with it.

[In the pound]

I'm ready for next friday to get here. I agee with the above, id rather see the defense just tackle and not try for the big hit.

[Ref Devil]

after talking to several coaches, it appears the targeting rule does not involve ejection. their understanding of the rule would be a personal foul, 15 yard penalty. the ref's call was targeting and player ejected. as a ref why do you think player was ejected?

Yes, you are correct. A regular Targeting foul is a 15 yd foul, just like a Personal Foul. However, if the officials deem the hit as flagrant, it is then an ejection. I'm speaking in general and not about this specific play because I have not seen the play. With these new rules over the past couple years, if the hit is deemed flagrant by the official or officials crew, it is then an ejection. However, It is not a 4 game suspension for a players 1st ejection like some has stated on this thread. I believe it is a 1 game suspension (possibly 2) then becomes longer if that player is ejected from another game that same season.

[Ref Devil]

Targeting, Illegal Helmet Contact, Spearing, and even a regular personal foul can all be electable fouls if the action is deemed flagrant by the officials. So, while these fouls don't carry an automatic ejection, the can be electable fouls if the action is ruled as flagrant or excessive.

[LCDOG 87]

4 helmets coming flying off for bl the one Luke hit his helmet came off 2 times once on a lineman blocking him made that made it look bad it was good block on hul the info on rule are right