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09-24-2014, 06:56 AM
Pirate4Life Wrote:You are 100% right , I was shocked to say the least. Pikeville has a great team but and I am not taking anything away from their heart or talent but Belfry should have won that game by 3 touchdowns (if Belfry would have played to their full potential). It comes down to this , Pikeville's heart and will to win elevated their talent because they wanted to beat Belfry...and they did beat Belfry in very aspect of the game. The problem was not that Belfry was "flat" they were unprepared for the hurricane that Pikeville unleashed upon them. Belfry kept expecting something "magical to happen" and the game to turn around. This isn't Disneyland its football the only magic you get is through hard work, dedication and desire you may become a champion. People like myself did not help the situation by singing the praises of Belfry. Never read your own press or you might start to believe what people are saying. If we play CAK and JC like with the same lackadaisical attitude the tears will flow like a river from the Pond Creek Nation. If our fanbase at Belfry believes we will stroll into BG without a fight from the other 3A teams they are sorely wrong. I love BELFRY that why I stand up for the tradition of being warriors. We hit hard, we play hard, we never give up , we crush dreams at CAM stadium. We fight to the finish and if we lose a battle we educate , evaluate, regain our focus and go back to work. If you don't believe in these values then you do not deserve to wear the name of BELFRY across your chest.A lot of good points and it is obvious that you care a lot. First you know that things are not going to change a lot, but could there be adjustments made? Sure they could. Before I give you the changes I would like to see, let me talk about the run game (Belfry) versus the spread (what a lot of other teams run and what teams use to try knock off Belfry?. When was the last time before last Friday that a spread team beat Belfry? you have to think real hard. Belfry rarely loses to a spread team. JC is not a spread team. Central is not a spread team. Henry Clay has beaten Belfry, but Belfry has beaten them too. Etown and OCath couldn't do it. A powerful run game is still the most demoralizing force in football. Yes, if you can run 100 plays like some spread teams do, then you can wear some teams out. Haywood will always tell you that when you face a spread team or for that matter a team that is fairly balanced run and pass,what must you do? You cannot let them run and pass on you and that is exactly what Pikeville did. BHS defended the pass pretty well, especially the long pass, but they could not consistently stop the run too. That was the key for Pikeville. They ran and passed the ball well enough to keep Belfry on their heels and when the Panthers needed the big yards they got them. But how many times has Belfry demoralized teams with their run game. At least 90 pct of the time it goes in Belfry's favor. Last Friday was not one of those nights, but they are rare. Look at what JC did to Belfry last year. They demoralized the Pirates and barely allowed them to have the ball in the 4th qtr. Combine that with a defense that had still not found themselves and you get results that lopsided. Now let me go to your point of spreading the field some.
1. First of all I agree you have to have another playmaker. When Catron returns, that will be taken care of if you leave everyone else in place. Until then do you make changes? Keaton can play QB, WR, and HB...In the short term do you put him somewhere else or do you make a long term commitment to him at QB or do you let Corbett play QB and let Keaton's athletic abiltiy shine at WR and HB. Tough call to me because you have to ask if Corbett can make all the reads? Will be interesting to see. My feeling is that Keaton will stay QB for now.
2. Will Austin Hall or anyone else be used at HB? Hall made one good run against Henry Clay and he has not been heard from since. Can Wellman play some HB? Edwards is a tough runner, but he doesn't have the overall HB speed IMO. He did make a great run on the TD that was called back.
3. Develop a screen game...can you imagine if you put Corbett at QB and Keaton in the backfield and ran some screens or not just that combination but throw them to Hatfield or Willis or others. I have always thought Belfry could benefit from having a screen package. Also, the little flare routes out of the backfield or the halfback play action fly have been successful over the years. Have not seen any of that this year.
I think the other thing you really have to see is a leader. Out of the seniors, who has historically been vocal. Most of the seniors lead by example. The best leader and energy guy is Catron and it will be beg when he is back. Sometimes you need someone to step up and grab a face mask of their teammate and get the whole team fired up. They could have used a vocal leader last Friday that rallied the team to perform well. Nobody really stepped up and when the Pirates did show some life in the third quarter, they could not finish. Anyway the biggest games are coming up...That is district and some good tests from CAK and JC...Having home field advantage is key this year IMO. It does not guarantee anything, but Belfry is tough at home and there they can feed off the energy of the crowd and if they finish first in the district, I believe they are still a big favorite to get to BG.
09-24-2014, 01:29 PM
No Belfry will not if you ask Pikeville.
09-24-2014, 04:00 PM
bucslover68 Wrote:?...
[b]When was the last time before last Friday that a spread team beat Belfry? you have to think real hard. Belfry rarely loses to a spread team. ...
Another short memory... (is this "blacking out" of losses to the Blackcats common among Pond Creek folk ?) :popcorn:
Prestonsburg beat Belfry in '09 and '10 with a spread-type offense.
:popcorn:
09-24-2014, 04:08 PM
oneijoe Wrote:Another short memory... (is this "blacking out" of losses to the Blackcats common among Pond Creek folk ?) :popcorn:Correct me if I am wrong, but I think he was referring to a "pure" spread. Weren't the 09 and 10 teams for Prestonsburg more of a hybrid pro style/spread offense? But yeah, that memory blackout seems common. Wonder if Mayfield will share their magical water with the Pond Creek folk? It cures all ails. nicker:
Prestonsburg beat Belfry in '09 and '10 with a spread-type offense.
:popcorn:
09-24-2014, 04:28 PM
bucslover68 Wrote:A lot of good points and it is obvious that you care a lot. First you know that things are not going to change a lot, but could there be adjustments made? Sure they could. Before I give you the changes I would like to see, let me talk about the run game (Belfry) versus the spread (what a lot of other teams run and what teams use to try knock off Belfry?. When was the last time before last Friday that a spread team beat Belfry? you have to think real hard. Belfry rarely loses to a spread team. JC is not a spread team. Central is not a spread team. Henry Clay has beaten Belfry, but Belfry has beaten them too. Etown and OCath couldn't do it. A powerful run game is still the most demoralizing force in football. Yes, if you can run 100 plays like some spread teams do, then you can wear some teams out. Haywood will always tell you that when you face a spread team or for that matter a team that is fairly balanced run and pass,what must you do? You cannot let them run and pass on you and that is exactly what Pikeville did. BHS defended the pass pretty well, especially the long pass, but they could not consistently stop the run too. That was the key for Pikeville. They ran and passed the ball well enough to keep Belfry on their heels and when the Panthers needed the big yards they got them. But how many times has Belfry demoralized teams with their run game. At least 90 pct of the time it goes in Belfry's favor. Last Friday was not one of those nights, but they are rare. Look at what JC did to Belfry last year. They demoralized the Pirates and barely allowed them to have the ball in the 4th qtr. Combine that with a defense that had still not found themselves and you get results that lopsided. Now let me go to your point of spreading the field some.
1. First of all I agree you have to have another playmaker. When Catron returns, that will be taken care of if you leave everyone else in place. Until then do you make changes? Keaton can play QB, WR, and HB...In the short term do you put him somewhere else or do you make a long term commitment to him at QB or do you let Corbett play QB and let Keaton's athletic abiltiy shine at WR and HB. Tough call to me because you have to ask if Corbett can make all the reads? Will be interesting to see. My feeling is that Keaton will stay QB for now.
2. Will Austin Hall or anyone else be used at HB? Hall made one good run against Henry Clay and he has not been heard from since. Can Wellman play some HB? Edwards is a tough runner, but he doesn't have the overall HB speed IMO. He did make a great run on the TD that was called back.
3. Develop a screen game...can you imagine if you put Corbett at QB and Keaton in the backfield and ran some screens or not just that combination but throw them to Hatfield or Willis or others. I have always thought Belfry could benefit from having a screen package. Also, the little flare routes out of the backfield or the halfback play action fly have been successful over the years. Have not seen any of that this year.
I think the other thing you really have to see is a leader. Out of the seniors, who has historically been vocal. Most of the seniors lead by example. The best leader and energy guy is Catron and it will be beg when he is back. Sometimes you need someone to step up and grab a face mask of their teammate and get the whole team fired up. They could have used a vocal leader last Friday that rallied the team to perform well. Nobody really stepped up and when the Pirates did show some life in the third quarter, they could not finish. Anyway the biggest games are coming up...That is district and some good tests from CAK and JC...Having home field advantage is key this year IMO. It does not guarantee anything, but Belfry is tough at home and there they can feed off the energy of the crowd and if they finish first in the district, I believe they are still a big favorite to get to BG.
You bring up a lot of points here. Before I comment on some of them, there's one fact you omit, probably because you can't see it from being on the inside rooting for the Pirates. That one big fact is, Belfry is drawing far more players with ability compared to other schools of comparable size in the entire eastern 1/3 of the state. It's not "recruiting" or anything illegal. It's because of Belfry's tradition and geography. One should keep in mind when talking x's and o's that better personnel will make a coach look better in game planning. Belfry has that innate advantage playing most anyone locally.
But onto a couple particular points:
"Haywood will always tell you that when you face a spread team or for that matter a team that is fairly balanced run and pass,what must you do? You cannot let them run and pass on you.."
No matter who said this, it isn't exactly rocket science. If you stop a team from running AND throwing against you, you're bound to do well. lol...
Develop a screen game...can you imagine if you put Corbett at QB and Keaton in the backfield and ran some screens..
You don't just "do" this because its success depends on what the opposing defense is doing. Think about this objectively. Why is a screen called ? Answer: to take advantage of the defense's pass rush. The only time a screen will be a good call is when the Pirates are down big and are forced to put the ball up and the defense pins its ears back in a rush. When else does Belfry look to pass ?!? Before Belfry can "develop a screen game", it must first develop enough of a passing attack that defenses must respect it. With Belfry it's run, run, and more run. The things an opposing defense worries about is getting outside quickly enough on the odd pitch/sweep and not over-pursuing in case of a counter. Probably the LAST thing the defense is worrying about is how to get to the QB in a pass rush.
09-24-2014, 04:38 PM
Hard to run a screen from under center we HAVE to have the ability lineup in a different formation at points in a game when it is required. 3rd and 21 nobody is buying the play action pass to the fullback from the spread bone I mean really let's not kid ourselves. To have your QB already 4-5 yards deep taking a shotgun snap in a known passing situation already puts you at such an advantage as far as reading the field and avoiding the pass rush, from this formation draws and screen pass can then be worked into the offense. In today's football we have to adapt and grow to compete with the best in the state.
09-24-2014, 04:41 PM
And also have we just completely phased out the original wishbone formation with 2 lead blockers for a HB in short yardage plays or are we soley relying on Austin Hatfield to pick up EVERY short yardage play we come up against, we are way to athletic to be so predictable, give them something else to plan and prepare for.
09-24-2014, 04:45 PM
^^^
Oneijoe
Disagree slightly about the screen pass
Inherently YES a screen is often used the most for negating a team who is pinning their ears on a pass rush.. because where you most often see it is with teams who pass the ball. Yes... a traditional HB screen for Belfry is not going to work whatsoever.
From a principle standpoint though what a screen is doing in it's purest since is taking advantage of a defense that is getting deep penetration and committing Linebackers or Safeties.
Screens rarely work when a team is rushing 4 down linemen only... they typically work when one or more LB's or DB's have committed to a play. The screen is designed to get behind that surge and then allow Linemen to block ahead creating a mis-match.
Same thing with a WR screen. You purposely choose to allow penetration in return for having that blocker being able to get up field and make a key block ahead of the play.
I think bucs is referring to more of this WR screen situation. Last year Belfry completely changed the Bourbon game by hitting Taylor on the bubble and putting a hat on the DB and hoping Taylor could beat the aggressive LB to the gap after he had over committed to the run.
A HB screen will rarely work for Belfry because most defenses aren't concerned with penetrating the middle of the LOS as much as they are concerned with creating a mess of bodies and closing holes. The WR screen where you have man coverage, only one Safety (usually 15-20 yards away), and a LB pushing to the LOS on the other hand is an excellent play call and one Belfry hasn't been able to execute this year.
Even then...as I posted in the Belfry/SC thread...I would love to see the Wildcat as a surprise formation using Belfry's existing personnel. Out of the Wildcat I think the screen game definitely comes into play..both with Ends and even w/ your FB/HBack. The second Belfry lines up out of the gun or pistol defensive mindsets do a complete 180. Then it is all about getting to the QB... I actually then love the idea of Hatfield as an HBack being able to chip a pass rusher and then taking a screen.
Oneijoe
Disagree slightly about the screen pass
Inherently YES a screen is often used the most for negating a team who is pinning their ears on a pass rush.. because where you most often see it is with teams who pass the ball. Yes... a traditional HB screen for Belfry is not going to work whatsoever.
From a principle standpoint though what a screen is doing in it's purest since is taking advantage of a defense that is getting deep penetration and committing Linebackers or Safeties.
Screens rarely work when a team is rushing 4 down linemen only... they typically work when one or more LB's or DB's have committed to a play. The screen is designed to get behind that surge and then allow Linemen to block ahead creating a mis-match.
Same thing with a WR screen. You purposely choose to allow penetration in return for having that blocker being able to get up field and make a key block ahead of the play.
I think bucs is referring to more of this WR screen situation. Last year Belfry completely changed the Bourbon game by hitting Taylor on the bubble and putting a hat on the DB and hoping Taylor could beat the aggressive LB to the gap after he had over committed to the run.
A HB screen will rarely work for Belfry because most defenses aren't concerned with penetrating the middle of the LOS as much as they are concerned with creating a mess of bodies and closing holes. The WR screen where you have man coverage, only one Safety (usually 15-20 yards away), and a LB pushing to the LOS on the other hand is an excellent play call and one Belfry hasn't been able to execute this year.
Even then...as I posted in the Belfry/SC thread...I would love to see the Wildcat as a surprise formation using Belfry's existing personnel. Out of the Wildcat I think the screen game definitely comes into play..both with Ends and even w/ your FB/HBack. The second Belfry lines up out of the gun or pistol defensive mindsets do a complete 180. Then it is all about getting to the QB... I actually then love the idea of Hatfield as an HBack being able to chip a pass rusher and then taking a screen.
09-24-2014, 04:49 PM
irishcard16 Wrote:And also have we just completely phased out the original wishbone formation with 2 lead blockers for a HB in short yardage plays or are we soley relying on Austin Hatfield to pick up EVERY short yardage play we come up against, we are way to athletic to be so predictable, give them something else to plan and prepare for.
Right now Belfry doesn't have a HB capable of running the veer so the true Bone doesn't make sense. The veer was the soul of Belfry's wishbone and when you had Jones, Howard, or even Maynard who could explode into the hole and shed initial contact or fall forward for a yard it works. Right now Belfry's HB's simply aren't explosive or big enough to do so. Catron appears to have the explosion, but he doesnt have the size to overcome physics.
09-24-2014, 05:06 PM
Whoee, from reading this post, l earned a lot, gonna get my coaching papers Hahahaha,,hahaha ,ah aha.
09-24-2014, 05:53 PM
oneijoe Wrote:Another short memory... (is this "blacking out" of losses to the Blackcats common among Pond Creek folk ?) :popcorn:
Prestonsburg beat Belfry in '09 and '10 with a spread-type offense.
:popcorn:
I've never really considered Pburg to be a true spread team, but sure they won those two years. My point is that the power run game of Belfry, whether it be by sheer talent,coaching, or style has won many more games than it has lost against teams that prefer to throw the ball or throw it a lot. And yes it is common sense that you don't want a team to run and throw against you....I was just relaying what Haywood says when Belfry faces teams that throw the ball a lot like a Pike Central....you can let them complete some passes, but you cannot let them run the ball at will. As for the screen plays, I am talking about lining up in formations that Belfry has lined up in the past that they are not lining up now. Remember Andrew Elkins....the formation they used was what I called a "short shotgun". You can run and pass and believe me,because I have seen it, you can throw screens to your backs out of it. When does Belfry usually throw the ball? Only when they have too. The last couple of years, Belfry's third and ten plays are a quick pitch or run the option to the edge. It usually works, but I am just thinking about other formations and options they have in passing situations. Btw the 09 and 10 teams that Pburg beat were the worst in this Belfry run...Quite a few teams beat them both running teams and spread teams. I believe they lost 9 games combined those two years.
09-24-2014, 05:58 PM
EKUAlum05 Wrote:^^^
Oneijoe
Disagree slightly about the screen pass
Inherently YES a screen is often used the most for negating a team who is pinning their ears on a pass rush.. because where you most often see it is with teams who pass the ball. Yes... a traditional HB screen for Belfry is not going to work whatsoever.
From a principle standpoint though what a screen is doing in it's purest since is taking advantage of a defense that is getting deep penetration and committing Linebackers or Safeties.
Screens rarely work when a team is rushing 4 down linemen only... they typically work when one or more LB's or DB's have committed to a play. The screen is designed to get behind that surge and then allow Linemen to block ahead creating a mis-match.
Same thing with a WR screen. You purposely choose to allow penetration in return for having that blocker being able to get up field and make a key block ahead of the play.
I think bucs is referring to more of this WR screen situation. Last year Belfry completely changed the Bourbon game by hitting Taylor on the bubble and putting a hat on the DB and hoping Taylor could beat the aggressive LB to the gap after he had over committed to the run.
A HB screen will rarely work for Belfry because most defenses aren't concerned with penetrating the middle of the LOS as much as they are concerned with creating a mess of bodies and closing holes. The WR screen where you have man coverage, only one Safety (usually 15-20 yards away), and a LB pushing to the LOS on the other hand is an excellent play call and one Belfry hasn't been able to execute this year.
Even then...as I posted in the Belfry/SC thread...I would love to see the Wildcat as a surprise formation using Belfry's existing personnel. Out of the Wildcat I think the screen game definitely comes into play..both with Ends and even w/ your FB/HBack. The second Belfry lines up out of the gun or pistol defensive mindsets do a complete 180. Then it is all about getting to the QB... I actually then love the idea of Hatfield as an HBack being able to chip a pass rusher and then taking a screen.
Well... the WR screens are a very different animal, for sure. The bubble screen is indeed about pulling blockers, though the straight flanker screen is an isolation play.
But for Belfry, it isn't as if it can do either effectively out of their typical two-tight, one-wide (or no wide, 3 back) set. If Belfry changes formations, though, it sort of telegraphs intentions.
It's important to see the game from Coach Haywood's perspective here. If Belfry begins splitting out a TE using a RB in the slot, it sacrifices strength on one or more gaps vs. his closed sets. Coach is ALL about utilizing his advantages in personnel (esp. the bigs) to maximum effect - his advantage is NOT in quality of his personnel on a 1-to-1 basis, it's with quantity of quality players (once again, especially bigs) in depth. Belfry is built to grind - with an occasional outside run or on a deep pass set up by that grind inside.
09-24-2014, 07:04 PM
bucslover68 Wrote:... Btw the 09 and 10 teams that Pburg beat were the worst in this Belfry run...
Somehow I knew you wouldn't be able to resist stating that. Once again, it isn't that the other team was better, it was that Belfry wasn't being "Belfry" for one reason or the other (call it "Steve Spurrier Syndrome"...lol). It was just 2 regular season ballgames and you can't just let it be. Maybe you ought to think about modifying the way you regard losses short of the state final. It's not especially healthy.
hh::popcorn:
09-24-2014, 07:11 PM
bucslover68 Wrote:I've never really considered Pburg to be a true spread team, ....
Which is why I said "spread-type" offense. P-burg ran multiple sets those years, but about 1/2 the time the QB was not under center.
09-24-2014, 07:33 PM
oneijoe Wrote:Somehow I knew you wouldn't be able to resist stating that. Once again, it isn't that the other team was better, it was that Belfry wasn't being "Belfry" for one reason or the other (call it "Steve Spurrier Syndrome"...lol). It was just 2 regular season ballgames and you can't just let it be. Maybe you ought to think about modifying the way you regard losses short of the state final. It's not especially healthy.Especially since..... Ahhh never mind. Not healthy to feed trolls. Lol
hh::popcorn:
09-24-2014, 07:59 PM
Let's all not forget about Bourbon Co before we all write Belfry in on the east side of the State Championship bracket, they are a REAL threat to not only beat us IF we make it that far but to take the crown this is a very talented team who may very well have their own claim to the 1 spot in 3a
09-24-2014, 08:11 PM
oneijoe Wrote:Somehow I knew you wouldn't be able to resist stating that. Once again, it isn't that the other team was better, it was that Belfry wasn't being "Belfry" for one reason or the other (call it "Steve Spurrier Syndrome"...lol). It was just 2 regular season ballgames and you can't just let it be. Maybe you ought to think about modifying the way you regard losses short of the state final. It's not especially healthy.
hh::popcorn:
You have missed my whole point and going back to my posts regarding the Belfry and Pikeville thread you have become very sarcastic towards me....Not sure why...anyway my whole point is that people wanna bash the Haywood model and once again for whatever reason...size, better players, better coaches, etc. Etc. his teams rarely lose and they rarely lose to spread offenses....it's the power teams that give them more trouble...as far at getting healthy regarding losses, I certainly gave PHS and any other team credit if they beat BHS...as far as 09 and 10 go I was merely stating an opinion on those two years shared by most. Pburg has had some dandy teams and if they beat Belfry then they were the better team that year...I don't pretend to be an expert on Belfry football, but I guarantee you no one on this site watches them live more than I do.
09-24-2014, 08:24 PM
irishcard16 Wrote:Let's all not forget about Bourbon Co before we all write Belfry in on the east side of the State Championship bracket, they are a REAL threat to not only beat us IF we make it that far but to take the crown this is a very talented team who may very well have their own claim to the 1 spot in 3a
I don't think anyone has forgot about BC, but that is a long way down the road and district is starting and Belfry needs to play one at a time and hopefully get home field throughout!
09-24-2014, 09:02 PM
This game reminded me of something:
I was a Sophomore at EKU in 2002 and one of my fraternity brothers had a sibling that played for West Jessamine.
West Jess was hosting big, bad Boyle County. This was right in the middle of the Chuck Smith dynasty. Boyle had won back to back titles and was revered. This was a Boyle team that had Jacob Tamme, Brandon Smith, and the big Webb kid on defense.
West Jess wasn't as big as Boyle. Watching warm ups it was clear who the better looking team was. Yet that night West Jessamine executed their game plan to absolute perfection. They controlled the LOS all night. Boyle opened off the game showing little emotion, and by the time they tried to rally it was too late as the home standing Colts believed they could win and had an answer for Boyle all night on defense.
West Jess won 13-9.
Boyle didn't lose another game that year... they didn't lose a game the entire next year as well. That was the last game they lost before going on a run of 25 straight wins.
I was a Sophomore at EKU in 2002 and one of my fraternity brothers had a sibling that played for West Jessamine.
West Jess was hosting big, bad Boyle County. This was right in the middle of the Chuck Smith dynasty. Boyle had won back to back titles and was revered. This was a Boyle team that had Jacob Tamme, Brandon Smith, and the big Webb kid on defense.
West Jess wasn't as big as Boyle. Watching warm ups it was clear who the better looking team was. Yet that night West Jessamine executed their game plan to absolute perfection. They controlled the LOS all night. Boyle opened off the game showing little emotion, and by the time they tried to rally it was too late as the home standing Colts believed they could win and had an answer for Boyle all night on defense.
West Jess won 13-9.
Boyle didn't lose another game that year... they didn't lose a game the entire next year as well. That was the last game they lost before going on a run of 25 straight wins.
09-24-2014, 09:20 PM
Haywood will have them ready. Always does. A lot of talented kids in W. Va.
09-24-2014, 09:40 PM
pjdoug Wrote:Who will replace him?WE can't get Willard but Russell is loose.
09-24-2014, 09:47 PM
Farmmgr Wrote:Haywood will have them ready. Always does. A lot of talented kids in W. Va.Look at the Bourbon fan taking a dig. Bourbon just brought in an entire 11 man rotation from transfers this offseason.
How is Hodge's Bourbon/Scott/Fayette/Clark/Nicholas/Harrison County Colonels looking this year so far? hh:
09-24-2014, 10:03 PM
oneijoe Wrote:Somehow I knew you wouldn't be able to resist stating that. Once again, it isn't that the other team was better, it was that Belfry wasn't being "Belfry" for one reason or the other (call it "Steve Spurrier Syndrome"...lol). It was just 2 regular season ballgames and you can't just let it be. Maybe you ought to think about modifying the way you regard losses short of the state final. It's not especially healthy.
hh::popcorn:
Ah yes.....another Dr. Phil session........:lame::eyeroll::popcorn:
09-24-2014, 10:05 PM
EKUAlum05 Wrote:Look at the Bourbon fan taking a dig. Bourbon just brought in an entire 11 man rotation from transfers this offseason.
How is Hodge's Bourbon/Scott/Fayette/Clark/Nicholas/Harrison County Colonels looking this year so far? hh:
That's a very accurate statement/question. I know first hand.......
09-24-2014, 10:17 PM
bucslover68 Wrote:You have missed my whole point and going back to my posts regarding the Belfry and Pikeville thread you have become very sarcastic towards me....Not sure why...anyway my whole point is that people wanna bash the Haywood model and once again for whatever reason...size, better players, better coaches, etc. Etc. his teams rarely lose and they rarely lose to spread offenses....it's the power teams that give them more trouble...as far at getting healthy regarding losses, I certainly gave PHS and any other team credit if they beat BHS...as far as 09 and 10 go I was merely stating an opinion on those two years shared by most. Pburg has had some dandy teams and if they beat Belfry then they were the better team that year...I don't pretend to be an expert on Belfry football, but I guarantee you no one on this site watches them live more than I do.
I apologize for coming off sarcastic. Don't really intend to, at least, not in a personal way toward you.
And I hope I don't come off as being critical of the "Haywood model". What he does is exactly what a knowledgeable coach should do coaching a school with Belfry's advantages. If your program attracts the most athletic big athletes of anyone else around, the power-based offense and cover-2 5-2 base defense is the way to go. Doing so maximizes the potential of what you have most of for and against the run game while having safeties for insurance against the deep ball. It makes the OTHER team give away what it needs to do (to cover deficiencies and/or get isolations for its good players) early in a game. Coach Haywood/staff, to their credit, usually do a good job adjusting at the half to take whatever they're doing away.
I suppose my ultimate point is... it's not likely to work out to Belfry's advantage if they start changing up their style on either side of the ball. A passing attack, including screens, is not something you develop -just like that-. It's my opinion as long as Belfry continues to enjoy its advantages, it's best served by being Belfry - continue its conservative offense and defense.
Now, EKU's suggestion of some kind of Wildcat package is kind of intriguing. It wouldn't be such a big change for Belfry's offense and would give a bit of a different look to opposing defenses.
:popcorn:
09-24-2014, 10:18 PM
OutlawJoseyWales Wrote:Ah yes.....another Dr. Phil session........:lame::eyeroll::popcorn:
Ok...message received. :notworthy
09-24-2014, 10:20 PM
OutlawJoseyWales Wrote:Ah yes.....another Dr. Phil session........:lame::eyeroll::popcorn:
Ok...message received. I AM bad for that. :notworthy
09-24-2014, 10:22 PM
OutlawJoseyWales Wrote:That's a very accurate statement/question. I know first hand.......
So did you hear the story about the transfer from Mingo Central who came to Belfry and wanted to play football? For whatever reason he left after three games during the middle of the week before Belfry's next game. Sad to lose him(true but not devastated) and sad for the kid to waste the biggest part of his junior year of HS football....Wait, Wait....is that you Joe Kinzer I hear with breaking news from Mingo Central that the kid is immediately eligible??!! Wow!!! and come to find out he carries 9 times for 135 yards and a couple of TDs!!!! Good for him!!! smh!
09-24-2014, 10:24 PM
oneijoe Wrote:I apologize for coming off sarcastic. Don't really intend to, at least, not in a personal way toward you.
And I hope I don't come off as being critical of the "Haywood model". What he does is exactly what a knowledgeable coach should do coaching a school with Belfry's advantages. If your program attracts the most athletic big athletes of anyone else around, the power-based offense and cover-2 5-2 base defense is the way to go. Doing so maximizes the potential of what you have most of for and against the run game while having safeties for insurance against the deep ball. It makes the OTHER team give away what it needs to do (to cover deficiencies and/or get isolations for its good players) early in a game. Coach Haywood/staff, to their credit, usually do a good job adjusting at the half to take whatever they're doing away.
I suppose my ultimate point is... it's not likely to work out to Belfry's advantage if they start changing up their style on either side of the ball. A passing attack, including screens, is not something you develop -just like that-. It's my opinion as long as Belfry continues to enjoy its advantages, it's best served by being Belfry - continue its conservative offense and defense.
Now, EKU's suggestion of some kind of Wildcat package is kind of intriguing. It wouldn't be such a big change for Belfry's offense and would give a bit of a different look to opposing defenses.
:popcorn:
It's all good...a form of the Wildcat could be good with this team... They have run the Tom Cat before with Thomas Varney.
09-24-2014, 10:29 PM
^^^
I know I am being an armchair coach... but the additional logic I see with it:
1. It's not re-building a wall for Haywood...he has used it before back in 2009 when he had Thomas Varney. He successfully implemented it after the start of the season and it single handily was the key to 3 Belfry wins that year.
2. I am a huge fan of the fact you can "surprise" teams since Belfry can use the exact same personnel they would already have on the field. On 1st and 10 you run the flexbone and a holding call makes it 1st and 20. Without even subbing you go into the huddle and suddenly come out in a shotgun spread look with Corbett at QB and Taylor in motion.
3. I am a huge fan of stealing the other teams' timeouts...especially in the 2nd Half. In HS Football..especially against Belfry... your number of possessions are limited and time is seldom on your side. Either they will have to burn a timeout or there is a good chance it will totally catch them off guard and you catch a defense that is ready to have 9 guys in a 40 square foot box having to quickly spread across the entire field.
4. It gives you an option to have Taylor at SE against a single CB if you want to pass... if you want to run with him he is now at a full sprint when he takes the handoff on the seep.
5. If it is a pass Corbett already knows and can see the field instead of carrying out a playfake with his back turned. If it is a run Corbett only has to make one read. Corbett has struggled a little bit getting a clean snap from Center..now it is a shotgun snap.
6. You still have options to use Hatfield and his physicality by making him the H-Back. He can block straight down on the power dive w/ Corbett, he can pull and be the lead blocker if Corbett does a counter, he can get outside and block on a quick bubble screen to Willis, and you can slide him under for a screen or shuttle pass if you release pressure.
I know I am being an armchair coach... but the additional logic I see with it:
1. It's not re-building a wall for Haywood...he has used it before back in 2009 when he had Thomas Varney. He successfully implemented it after the start of the season and it single handily was the key to 3 Belfry wins that year.
2. I am a huge fan of the fact you can "surprise" teams since Belfry can use the exact same personnel they would already have on the field. On 1st and 10 you run the flexbone and a holding call makes it 1st and 20. Without even subbing you go into the huddle and suddenly come out in a shotgun spread look with Corbett at QB and Taylor in motion.
3. I am a huge fan of stealing the other teams' timeouts...especially in the 2nd Half. In HS Football..especially against Belfry... your number of possessions are limited and time is seldom on your side. Either they will have to burn a timeout or there is a good chance it will totally catch them off guard and you catch a defense that is ready to have 9 guys in a 40 square foot box having to quickly spread across the entire field.
4. It gives you an option to have Taylor at SE against a single CB if you want to pass... if you want to run with him he is now at a full sprint when he takes the handoff on the seep.
5. If it is a pass Corbett already knows and can see the field instead of carrying out a playfake with his back turned. If it is a run Corbett only has to make one read. Corbett has struggled a little bit getting a clean snap from Center..now it is a shotgun snap.
6. You still have options to use Hatfield and his physicality by making him the H-Back. He can block straight down on the power dive w/ Corbett, he can pull and be the lead blocker if Corbett does a counter, he can get outside and block on a quick bubble screen to Willis, and you can slide him under for a screen or shuttle pass if you release pressure.
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