[TheRealVille]

That's not what the article says. You didn't read it did you?

What's the law say?

[TheRealVille]

Did you set Maxine straight yet RV? :biglmao: Seriously, does it never embarrass you just a little to be proved wrong so often?

What's the law say?

[TheRealVille]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act

[Hoot Gibson]

What's the law say?

The law has little to do with the Obama administration. The people in charge of administering the PRISM program are telling members of Congress that analysts do not need any further authority to listen in on domestic phone calls. Do you think that both Nadler, a liberal Democrat who was a staunch defender of Bill Clinton, and Snowden, who was an NSA analyst whose account matches what Nadler says he was told, are both lying? Is Maxing Waters lying too? Everybody but Obama, Clapper, and Holder are lying, is that right? What the law says and what this administration does are often two entirely different things. The law does not matter to an Outlaw and his gang. :biglmao:

[TheRealVille]

The law has little to do with the Obama administration. The people in charge of administering the PRISM program are telling members of Congress that analysts do not need any further authority to listen in on domestic phone calls. Do you think that both Nadler, a liberal Democrat who was a staunch defender of Bill Clinton, and Snowden, who was an NSA analyst whose account matches what Nadler says he was told, are both lying? Is Maxing Waters lying too? Everybody but Obama, Clapper, and Holder are lying, is that right? What the law says and what this administration does are often two entirely different things. The law does not matter to an Outlaw and his gang. :biglmao:

Get a trial going if you have proof that the admin is doing something illegal.

[Hoot Gibson]

Get a trial going if you have proof that the admin is doing something illegal.

No trial is necessary to understand that the U.S. Constitution is being attacked every day by the man you voted for twice. The trial that matters will be the 2014 elections. Either Americans will agree with you and vote in favor of a further erosion of our constitutional rights, or they will punish the Democrats for participating in covering up Obama's incompetence and corruption.

[TheRealVille]

Snowden has more credibility than Obama and his staff of goons do, especially Holder. Both Holder and Clapper have already been caught lying under oath in Congressional hearings. And as the video clip TRT posted shows, Maxine Waters has boasted about the amount of personal data that Obama is collecting that will be available to the Democratic candidate in 2016.

You choose to believe an administration that has been caught lying about important matters repeatedly. l choose to judge them on their track record. They have no credibility because they are proven liars. If they are telling the truth in this particular instance, then I will be pleased and pleasantly surprised but we will never be certain either way.

Another reason that I do not trust this administration and do not condemn Snowden in stronger terms is that the Obama administration has leaked classified information when it was politically advantageous. Doing so probably cost several Navy seals their lives. There was no investigation in that case and nobody was or ever will be charged. When classified information is leaked, then the federal government should identify the source and prosecute those involved, no matter where the trail leads and that never happens unless the leak is politically damaging to the party in power.

It doesn't surprise me one bit that you hold a traitor in such high regard.

[Hoot Gibson]

It doesn't surprise me one bit that you hold a traitor in such high regard.

I have said that Snowden should be prosecuted for stealing and disclosing classified information. The same should be done with the leakers who work within the Obama administration. My position is totally consistent. Your's? Not so much.

[TheRealThing]

What's the law say?

DODGE, DUCK, DIVE, DODGE
This is an example of how hilarious it is when you ask for proof about anything. If the evidence offered is contrary to your take on the liberal doctrine, (even if that evidence comes from the likes of Maxine Waters), you side step it every time.

The law prohibits unreasonable search and seizure and the invasion of privacy. Storing every last bit of information about every person in America in some vast data base as described by folks like Rep Waters, whistle blowers and others, clearly tramples under foot those rights. As I have mentioned in the past, when liberals want to push an agenda, they are certainly not above twisting 237 years of practice and lying like dogs about it until they're discovered. Then they do the standard George W did it routine. Which of course, he didn't.

[TheRealThing]

It doesn't surprise me one bit that you hold a traitor in such high regard.

I have said that Snowden should be prosecuted for stealing and disclosing classified information. The same should be done with the leakers who work within the Obama administration. My position is totally consistent. Your's? Not so much.

I heard on the news late in the week, that there have been other NSA/CIA employees that chose to question the practice of information 'gathering' on individuals. One of those who chose to challenge legitimacy wound up taking his case to court. Any body on here remember hearing one word about it? I know I don't. The would be whistle blowers of the recent past have been dispatched so quickly and news of their stories buried so effectively, nobody has heard a thing about all of this. So, I ask you, what would it take to get America's attention on this matter? Somebody like Snowden who is willing to martyr himself to get the word out?

Of course he will be maligned for his action and yet, in view of the failed attempts of his cohorts for having taken what may be considered to be the appropriate channels to make their cases, who can really blame him? Gotta give him credit for one thing. At least now we all know about it and we're asking questions. Snowden might be a lot of things but, no evidence revealed to date puts him in the company of traitors. If Iran didn't know we were watching them closely, which I can't imagine they would be that slow on the uptake, even that gives me hope. Between our bumbling joke of a state department and a DOJ that thinks America is still in the Martin Luther King era, I didn't think we could keep anything a secret.

[Hoot Gibson]

I heard on the news late in the week, that there have been other NSA/CIA employees that chose to question the practice of information 'gathering' on individuals. One of those who chose to challenge legitimacy wound up taking his case to court. Any body on here remember hearing one word about it? I know I don't. The would be whistle blowers of the recent past have been dispatched so quickly and news of their stories buried so effectively, nobody has heard a thing about all of this. So, I ask you, what would it take to get America's attention on this matter? Somebody like Snowden who is willing to martyr himself to get the word out?

Of course he will be maligned for his action and yet, in view of the failed attempts of his cohorts for having taken what may be considered to be the appropriate channels to make their cases, who can really blame him? Gotta give him credit for one thing. At least now we all know about it and we're asking questions. Snowden might be a lot of things but, no evidence revealed to date puts him in the company of traitors. If Iran didn't know we were watching them closely, which I can't imagine they would be that slow on the uptake, even that gives me hope. Between our bumbling joke of a state department and a DOJ that thinks America is still in the Martin Luther King era, I didn't think we could keep anything a secret.

I agree that if Snowden had chosen to register his complaints through the "proper channels" in this corrupt administration, then he would have lost his job and we would never have heard of him or of the PRISM program. I don't fault him for what he has done so far, but people who break the law must be held accountable. Snowden seems to understand the risk that he is taking and prepared to accept the consequences of his actions. I hope that those consequences do not include torture at the hands of the Chinese government. For a 29-year old man who had a bright future ahead of him only a few weeks ago, Snowden has taken on a big burden.

If Snowden is found guilty of doing nothing but making American citizens aware that their own government has been building a huge database that deprives us of our Fourth Amendment rights and could be misused for political gain, than Obama's successor can grant him a presidential pardon later.

[TheRealVille]

DODGE, DUCK, DIVE, DODGE
This is an example of how hilarious it is when you ask for proof about anything. If the evidence offered is contrary to your take on the liberal doctrine, (even if that evidence comes from the likes of Maxine Waters), you side step it every time.

The law prohibits unreasonable search and seizure and the invasion of privacy. Storing every last bit of information about every person in America in some vast data base as described by folks like Rep Waters, whistle blowers and others, clearly tramples under foot those rights. As I have mentioned in the past, when liberals want to push an agenda, they are certainly not above twisting 237 years of practice and lying like dogs about it until they're discovered. Then they do the standard George W did it routine. Which of course, he didn't.

Really? :biglmao: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act

Opponents of the law have criticized its authorization of indefinite detentions of immigrants; searches through which law enforcement officers search a home or business without the owner’s or the occupant’s permission or knowledge; the expanded use of National Security Letters, which allows the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to search telephone, e-mail, and financial records without a court order, and the expanded access of law enforcement agencies to business records, including library and financial records. Since its passage, several legal challenges have been brought against the act, and Federal courts have ruled that a number of provisions are unconstitutional.

Are you guys sure that you are intermingling two different programs?

[TheRealVille]

Video of Meet the Press.


http://www.nbcnews.com/id/3032608/#52221537

[TheRealVille]

(CNN) – The chairman of the House intelligence committee strongly asserted Sunday that the National Security Agency is not recording Americans’ phone calls under U.S. surveillance programs, and any statements suggesting differently amount to “misinformation.”

Lining up with Obama administration officials — and the president himself — Rep. Mike Rogers, R-Michigan, said the NSA “is not listening to Americans’ phone calls” or monitoring their e-mails.

“If it did, it is illegal. It is breaking the law,” Rogers said on CNN’s “State of the Union.” “I think (Americans) think there's this mass surveillance of what you're saying on your phone call and what you're typing in your e-mails. That is just not happening.”

The NSA has repeatedly said that it collects only metadata — phone numbers and duration — of phone calls, but not the actual conversations taking place. If it needs to listen to a conversation, it must first obtain an order from the Federal Intelligence Surveillance Court.

But during a House judiciary committee hearing Thursday with FBI Director Robert Mueller, a Democratic congressman from New York said he was told in a classified discussion that NSA analysts were capable of obtaining specific information from phone calls without a warrant.

The congressman, Jerrold Nadler, issued a statement Sunday to CNN regarding his his exchange with Mueller at the hearing.

“I am pleased that the administration has reiterated that, as I have always believed, the NSA cannot listen to the content of Americans’ phone calls without a specific warrant," Nadler said.

Rogers strongly pushed back at the question of whether anyone in the U.S. government was listening to the phone calls. He said “there is all this misinformation about what these programs are,” and he hopes the public will soon come to better understand how the programs disrupted terrorist plots.

The intelligence community provided some of that counterterrorism justification, releasing a document Saturday to members of Congress and to CNN that says officials searched the database — which holds billions of phone records - fewer than 300 times last year.

Along with the online surveillance program known as PRISM, the information-gathering has helped disrupt dozens of plots in the U.S and more than 20 countries, the document reported.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/201...?hpt=hp_t2

[Hoot Gibson]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/201...?hpt=hp_t2

Just as I predicted, Nadler has recanted his previous statement after receiving a pep talk from somebody higher up the food chain. The people giving assurances that nothing illegal is being done at the NSA are the same people who have been in charge of overseeing the agency to ensure that nothing illegal is being done. Edward Snowden was in position to know exactly what was being done at the analyst level.

If Snowden has been telling the truth, then there will be some new faces on the intelligence committees next year, if not sooner. I find it very strange that a partisan hack like Nadler initially claimed that the NSA told him that analysts have the same type of access to phone calls that Snowden described.

[TheRealVille]

Just as I predicted, Nadler has recanted his previous statement after receiving a pep talk from somebody higher up the food chain. The people giving assurances that nothing illegal is being done at the NSA are the same people who have been in charge of overseeing the agency to ensure that nothing illegal is being done. Edward Snowden was in position to know exactly what was being done at the analyst level.

If Snowden has been telling the truth, then there will be some new faces on the intelligence committees next year, if not sooner. I find it very strange that a partisan hack like Nadler initially claimed that the NSA told him that analysts have the same type of access to phone calls that Snowden described.

Snowden should receive what a traitor receives, the death penalty.

[Hoot Gibson]

Snowden should receive what a traitor receives, the death penalty.

Should there be a trial, or should he be executed by a drone?

[TheRealVille]

Should there be a trial, or should he be executed by a drone?

Name one US citizen, killed on US soil, by a drone. Name one US citizen, that wasn't a terrorist, in a terrorist state, killed by a drone. If he wants a trial, he should come back to the US. But, I really don't care how they impose the death penalty on a traitor, as long as they impose it.

[Hoot Gibson]

Name one US citizen, killed on US soil, by a drone. Name one US citizen, that wasn't a terrorist, in a terrorist state, killed by a drone. If he wants a trial, he should come back to the US. But, I really don't care how they impose the death penalty on a traitor, as long as they impose it.

Snowden is not on American soil and I believe that four Americans have been killed in drone strikes on foreign soil. What should happen to the people who leaked details of the Bin Laden raid, which was also classified information? I believe that they can be found at or near 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Are they traitors?

[TheRealVille]

Snowden is not on American soil and I believe that four Americans have been killed in drone strikes on foreign soil. What should happen to the people who leaked details of the Bin Laden raid, which was also classified information? I believe that they can be found at or near 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Are they traitors?

I said terrorist, in terrorist states. You are a genius word twister. My exact words are there to see. Is Snowden dead? Did Obama leak classified info about the raid? At any rate, the President is allowed to "leak" any detail he sees fit to tell. If you are an American terrorist, on terrorist soil, I'm cool with them blowing you to "hell".

[Hoot Gibson]

I said non terrorist, in non terrorist states. Is Snowden dead? Did Obama leak classified info about the raid?

Answer my question. Are members of the administration who leaked information to further their political agenda and to win an election at the cost of endangering the lives of Navy Seals guilty of treason? Would you mete out the same punishment to those who identified Seat Team 6 as the unit that killed Bin Laden as you propose for Snowden? Or do you continue to believe that some people are above the laws that apply to other American citizens?

IMO, all American citizens who are accused of crimes, including treason, should be charged, arrested, and tried whenever possible. As far as I know, Snowden has not yet even been charged with a crime but you are advocating the death sentence for him. This country could save a fortune putting people like you in charge of our justice system.

[TheRealVille]

Answer my question. Are members of the administration who leaked information to further their political agenda and to win an election at the cost of endangering the lives of Navy Seals guilty of treason? Would you mete out the same punishment to those who identified Seat Team 6 as the unit that killed Bin Laden as you propose for Snowden? Or do you continue to believe that some people are above the laws that apply to other American citizens?

IMO, all American citizens who are accused of crimes, including treason, should be charged, arrested, and tried whenever possible. As far as I know, Snowden has not yet even been charged with a crime but you are advocating the death sentence for him. This country could save a fortune putting people like you in charge of our justice system.

The President is allowed, as Commander in Chief, to let out any information he see fit. Snowden leaked classified info, and is on tape admitting it, he deserves death.

[TheRealVille]

^BTW, I'll answer what I damn well please.

[TheRealThing]

Really? :biglmao: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act




Are you guys sure that you are intermingling two different programs?

What's your point? All this was to be used only if those suspected of aiding and abetting terror or terrorists popped up on the radar. If these guys are on the phone to Yemen, or sending money to Yemen, I know I for one think they should be looked at as suggested by the Patriot Act.

I know you'll never acknowledge the point I have made over and over but I'll say it again anyway. Our government's decision to create a VAST data base by amassing information about average American citizens that details every thing from what they like for breakfast to their political and philosophical leanings is dangerous and massively invasive. And, is 180 degrees the opposite of running down the potential terrorists and malcontents that routinely pour across our borders by the thousands every day. If we had anything remotely similar to a Department of Immigration, maybe some of these guys would be turned away or deported in due process. But, of course if that were the case democrats would lose votes and we couldn't have that, even if it is contributing noticeably to the demise of the land.

[TheRealVille]

What's your point? All this was to be used only if those suspected of aiding and abetting terror or terrorists popped up on the radar. If these guys are on the phone to Yemen, or sending money to Yemen, I know I for one think they should be looked at as suggested by the Patriot Act.

I know you'll never acknowledge the point I have made over and over but I'll say it again anyway. Our government's decision to create a VAST data base by amassing information about average American citizens that details every thing from what they like for breakfast to their political and philosophical leanings is dangerous and massively invasive. And, is 180 degrees the opposite of running down the potential terrorists and malcontents that routinely pour across our borders by the thousands every day. If we had anything remotely similar to a Department of Immigration, maybe some of these guys would be turned away or deported in due process. But, of course if that were the case democrats would lose votes and we couldn't have that, even if it is contributing noticeably to the demise of the land.

What part of them telling you that they aren't doing that don't you understand?

http://www.bluegrassrivals.com/forum/sho...stcount=74

[TheRealVille]

Answer my question. Are members of the administration who leaked information to further their political agenda and to win an election at the cost of endangering the lives of Navy Seals guilty of treason? Would you mete out the same punishment to those who identified Seat Team 6 as the unit that killed Bin Laden as you propose for Snowden? Or do you continue to believe that some people are above the laws that apply to other American citizens?

IMO, all American citizens who are accused of crimes, including treason, should be charged, arrested, and tried whenever possible. As far as I know, Snowden has not yet even been charged with a crime but you are advocating the death sentence for him. This country could save a fortune putting people like you in charge of our justice system.

The whole post is below.

I said terrorist, in terrorist states. You are a genius word twister. My exact words are there to see. Is Snowden dead? Did Obama leak classified info about the raid? At any rate, the President is allowed to "leak" any detail he sees fit to tell. If you are an American terrorist, on terrorist soil, I'm cool with them blowing you to "hell".

[TheRealThing]

I said terrorist, in terrorist states. You are a genius word twister. My exact words are there to see. Is Snowden dead? Did Obama leak classified info about the raid? At any rate, the President is allowed to "leak" any detail he sees fit to tell. If you are an American terrorist, on terrorist soil, I'm cool with them blowing you to "hell".

Maybe this president is but presidents who occupied the office in the past were restricted by at least some sense of class and statesmanship. Therefore, up until amateur hour first chimed on the clock at the White House, we as a people didn't have to worry about that.

[Hoot Gibson]

The President is allowed, as Commander in Chief, to let out any information he see fit. Snowden leaked classified info, and is on tape admitting it, he deserves death.

You obviously recognize Obama as a ruler instead of a fellow American citizen who is subject to our laws. How far down the chain of command does immunity from following laws extend? When VP Biden boasted that a small team of Navy Seals were responsible for killing Bin Laden, was that okay because he is our the vice ruler? Do laws governing the handling of classified information apply to Cabinet Secretaries? Where does the double standard end when it comes to the Obama administration following American laws, in your opinion?

[TheRealThing]

What part of them telling you that they aren't doing that don't you understand?

http://www.bluegrassrivals.com/forum/sho...stcount=74

What part of credible source do you not understand? They are doing it. And FWIW, the problem isn't that they're listening to phone calls, it is that they are storing all the information so that they may dredge it up later if they deem that to be necessary.

[Hoot Gibson]

^BTW, I'll answer what I damn well please.

:hilarious: Is that RV-speak for veering off the subject on tangents? Dodge, duck, dive, divert, and dodge.