[Hoot Gibson]

We've had this arguement before. So once again, since there has been SO MANY kids leave the county to play football at Paintsville, NAME THEM. And try to come up with other ones besides Hans, Wes, Blevins, and Subby, they were all on the same team. Come up with some more, since there has been so many and since that's the only reason Paintsville ever had good teams.

Paintsville has always had kids playing football who did not live in the city school district. I have absolutely no problem with that. Walter Brugh offered to find me a ride to Paintsville when my family moved out to the county during my 8th grade year if I wanted to continue playing football at Paintsville.

I think every student should be able to switch schools at the beginning of the school year and attend whatever school they want. I also think that they should be eligible to play sports and participate in other extra-curricular activities immediately. So I have no issue with non-district kids playing for any school, including Paintsville. I don't believe in holding kids hostage to a school system if parents believe their kids would be better off elsewhere.

On average, it does not matter whether you randomly pick 100 boys born in Paintsville or 100 boys born outside of Paintsville in Johnson County. Both groups have the same athletic potential. They are, for the most part, descendants of the same ancestors. Johnson Central is several times larger than Paintsville, so it has several times more potentially good athletes. For much of its history, bad coaching and politics kept Johnson Central's program from achieving its potential in sports. The county never lost enough athletes to Paintsville that it should have hurt their sports programs.

If you want to re-read my posts, you will find that I have repeatedly complimented Paintsville's past football coaches, which were the primary reason for their long tradition of excellence. I am most familiar with Coaches Brugh and Lemaster, both of whom were outstanding IMO, but I am not close enough to the current program to either criticize or defend the current staff.

As for out of district players, I have never said and will never say that they are the only reason Paintsville has ever had good football teams. Paintsville fans should be proud that many players over the years chose to enroll at Paintsville for their high school years - not be defensive about it. It means that Paintsville was doing things right and those kids wanted to be part of a successful program. Students, including athletes are a school's customers and they should not be forced to put up with a bad product.

[Tiger27]

Paintsville has always had kids playing football who did not live in the city school district. I have absolutely no problem with that. Walter Brugh offered to find me a ride to Paintsville when my family moved out to the county during my 8th grade year if I wanted to continue playing football at Paintsville.

I think every student should be able to switch schools at the beginning of the school year and attend whatever school they want. I also think that they should be eligible to play sports and participate in other extra-curricular activities immediately. So I have no issue with non-district kids playing for any school, including Paintsville. I don't believe in holding kids hostage to a school system if parents believe their kids would be better off elsewhere.

On average, it does not matter whether you randomly pick 100 boys born in Paintsville or 100 boys born outside of Paintsville in Johnson County. Both groups have the same athletic potential. They are, for the most part, descendants of the same ancestors. Johnson Central is several times larger than Paintsville, so it has several times more potentially good athletes. For much of its history, bad coaching and politics kept Johnson Central's program from achieving its potential in sports. The county never lost enough athletes to Paintsville that it should have hurt their sports programs.

If you want to re-read my posts, you will find that I have repeatedly complimented Paintsville's past football coaches, which were the primary reason for their long tradition of excellence. I am most familiar with Coaches Brugh and Lemaster, both of whom were outstanding IMO, but I am not close enough to the current program to either criticize or defend the current staff.

As for out of district players, I have never said and will never say that they are the only reason Paintsville has ever had good football teams. Paintsville fans should be proud that many players over the years chose to enroll at Paintsville for their high school years - not be defensive about it. It means that Paintsville was doing things right and those kids wanted to be part of a successful program. Students, including athletes are a school's customers and they should not be forced to put up with a bad product.

:Thumbs:
Good post

[OffTheHook]

Paintsville has always had kids playing football who did not live in the city school district. I have absolutely no problem with that. Walter Brugh offered to find me a ride to Paintsville when my family moved out to the county during my 8th grade year if I wanted to continue playing football at Paintsville.

I think every student should be able to switch schools at the beginning of the school year and attend whatever school they want. I also think that they should be eligible to play sports and participate in other extra-curricular activities immediately. So I have no issue with non-district kids playing for any school, including Paintsville. I don't believe in holding kids hostage to a school system if parents believe their kids would be better off elsewhere.

On average, it does not matter whether you randomly pick 100 boys born in Paintsville or 100 boys born outside of Paintsville in Johnson County. Both groups have the same athletic potential. They are, for the most part, descendants of the same ancestors. Johnson Central is several times larger than Paintsville, so it has several times more potentially good athletes. For much of its history, bad coaching and politics kept Johnson Central's program from achieving its potential in sports. The county never lost enough athletes to Paintsville that it should have hurt their sports programs.

If you want to re-read my posts, you will find that I have repeatedly complimented Paintsville's past football coaches, which were the primary reason for their long tradition of excellence. I am most familiar with Coaches Brugh and Lemaster, both of whom were outstanding IMO, but I am not close enough to the current program to either criticize or defend the current staff.

As for out of district players, I have never said and will never say that they are the only reason Paintsville has ever had good football teams. Paintsville fans should be proud that many players over the years chose to enroll at Paintsville for their high school years - not be defensive about it. It means that Paintsville was doing things right and those kids wanted to be part of a successful program. Students, including athletes are a school's customers and they should not be forced to put up with a bad product.

AMEN!!!!! Preach it brother! I like this post! :Thumbs:

[tweedle dee]

Kinner is a fine person and was a fine player himself. Truth is, he could be winning every game and still not satisfy all of Paintsville's " sideline" coaches including his own grandfather. He doesn't stand a chance of building anything until these people get off his back and shut up. His own cousin left PHS to play at JCHS in 2007 and 2008. That tells me a whole lot.

[Tiger27]

Kinner is a fine person and was a fine player himself. Truth is, he could be winning every game and still not satisfy all of Paintsville's " sideline" coaches including his own grandfather. He doesn't stand a chance of building anything until these people get off his back and shut up. His own cousin left PHS to play at JCHS in 2007 and 2008. That tells me a whole lot.

No one is disputing his character and I havent seen anyone say he was a bad person. These posts havent been about his personality or his playing days, they have been about his progress as being a head coach. Truth is, he has had three seasons and has like a 30% winning percentage so to be honest people have that right to complain. What do you expect people to say after back to back seasons with a record under .500. Ive seen games in all three of his seasons and he's had some very talented kids and Im just making a fair judgement based on his win-loss record and the talent he has had on each team that he has coached. When your losing at a school that has hada tradition of winning for decads, you will get criticized and to be completely honest I think your post makes no sense whatsoever. People are happy with wins, and thats not been happening so your post literally makes no sense at all, including when your blaming fans being on his back as an excuse for losing. Thats a ludicrous statement to make.

[hitemup]

Okay I have to say that Kinner may not be the best coach in the world, but outside of #11 and #21 this years team did not have a whole lot of talent.

[mr.charlie hustle]

Kinner is a fine person and was a fine player himself. Truth is, he could be winning every game and still not satisfy all of Paintsville's " sideline" coaches including his own grandfather. He doesn't stand a chance of building anything until these people get off his back and shut up. His own cousin left PHS to play at JCHS in 2007 and 2008. That tells me a whole lot.

"BUT" t.d. they are not winning. It is not so much the W/L but rather the margins there-of. The direction is wrong (50%,36% and 27%). In terms of players , the last three years Paintsville has had 2-3 kids who have been very capable of all state status. There have been others who could really play the game as well. It is necessary to be taught to Block,Tackle, and Play the big D.
You add proper motivation and hard work and you can have a winner. Then once in a great while you can have that one very special team.No we don't have an abundance of talent, but "Please don't blame the kids".

[tweedle dee]

Its hard to motivate kids when all they are hearing are negetive comments about the coaching staff. Why not get behind this coach just ONE SEASON and see what he can do. As for learning the fundamentals, shouldn't that be taught at a younger level, say Middle School or Grade School? Paintsville has never focused on having a qualified coach at that level.
My kids played there, I know. At that time it was Brugh's Rec center and lunch buddies that got that job. Now we have Mr Miller?!?! Everyone keeps talking about the up coming group of kids being so talented, but if that is the case, why didnt they go any further at end of year like JCMS? I listened to last weeks game at Harlan and was SHOCKED at the sarcasm of the announcers toward this team and coaching staff. This was our Middle school coach too and his sidekick, a man who never played a game of football in his life! I guess my point overall is PHS fans, PARENTS and yes even the critics should stop the negativity, get behind this young coach. When the kids see that then maybe they'll have better attitude and outlook about their team. BTW I am not blaming the kids in any way. They see and hear the negativity. We as adults need to set a positive example for them to follow.And that has never been the case in Kinners short career.

[doubledown]

As was posted earlier coaches going to have to get back to teachng the fundamentals,
(blocking,tackling) and start in the grade school & middle school years.
Coach Brugh would say before the start of each season "were going to block better,tackle better, & be in better shape than every team we play. We may not win them all but were not going to lose very often either."

[Superman20]

To be honest, I was skeptical three years ago about this whole situation. A proven coach in rebuilding years at a school was fired after two seasons for a school that he was a well-liked assistant coach for several years. Kinner is named the coach and I was left wondering how a man with only one years experience ( some people claim he had three years but thats not true) as an assistant was capable of being a head coach. He played at Georgetown College, but just because you played the game at the college level isn't sufficient proof that you are capable of teaching the game. Then slowly during his tenure as being the man in charge, the experienced assistants are run off and a bunch of fresh new faces are on the sidelines in year three. What successful hs football program has two assistants that didn't play hs football, a d coordinator that didnt play defense, the head coach making play calls with no experience on offense, and the guys that actually played the game have no coaching experience? How are these kids set up to be successful? How is this young staff supposed to out coach teams with coaches with WAY more experience? This whole process from the beginning has been set up to fail and more then one person is to blame for this whole situation. They have tried to impliment an offensive scheme that kids at paintsville or several other class A schools arent able to run and be successful. When you set the kids up to fail, you will not win ball games. The sad part is they think the problem is going to go away when the elementary school kids get to the high school level, but the scenario they aren't considering is those kids more then likely either wont want to play for a losing program and will quit playing football or will transfer to JC to play for Jim Matney. When the team across the creek is winning and having huge crowds, that is where kids will want to play football. If the school system doesnt go out and try to find a good coach to establish excitement to the program, paintsville football may never get back to the level that it used to be. It wouldnt surprise me at this point if the school ends up being like Paris. Used to be a power house program, and is now barely able to field a team. Their are local head coaches and assistant coaches that could bring excitement back to the program and Coy Samons needs to be contacting those people. If not, then people that criticize my posts now will owe me a big apology down the road when things hit rock bottom, which is almost where the state of the program is in now.

[MCDADDY]

I am not to bad to add my thoughts to these type of debates, however, I would like to add my observations as totally an outsider who also knows quite a bit about Paintsville and their sports history, the players both athletically, administratively, and politically, and the overall scope of athletics in the Big Sandy Region. However, to come to an understanding of where Paintsville should go moving forward, they need to understand where they come from. So, lets break it down like this....

-Should Jim Tom Allen have been forced out?

A. Absolutely not. Jim Tom had paid his dues and won games and competed in every game while he was there. His teams were fundamentally sound, stong, and comparably fast with everyone they played against. His following success with Pburgs program is just more proof he was a quality coach who should have still been there.

-Should Coach Kinner have been hired following Allen's departure?

A. I don't see why not. Remember, Kinner was young, but so has every other coach at Paintsville when they took over the reigns of their respective sports. He had great pedigree, playing experience, and from all accounts was ready then and will make a great head coach. Plus, he was a Paintsville guy......Everyone knows....EVERYONE!!... that Paintsville fans, staff, and alumni want one of their own. I don't care if it were Dudley Hilton, Phillip Haywood, or Nick Saban, Paintsville people still want Paintsville people coaching their sports. I also don't buy the "John Doe or James Doe" applied and was looked over. Yeah, I am sure they applied, but it was because they wanted to see how much money would have been involved, how many classes they had to teach, facilities, etc. That doesn't mean they would have taken the job even if offered.

-How much affect has Johnson Central had on program?

A. Tremendous! Not because they are taking "Paintsville" kids, but because they are keeping their own. Did this hapen because of Kinner? No, because it had already began happening several years before, when Matney arrived.

-Is the Paintsville talent level on par to what it normally is?

A. Not even close. I read a statement earlier where someone said there could have been two to three all state potential kids on this past years team. You got to be kidding me. The talent level is below mediocre. And sadly, it doesnt appear it is getting any better. Its not only football, all of Paintsville's sports are struggling currently. Direct result of the lack of talent.

-Are there intangibles at play here?

A. More than people realize. Kinner's assistant staff is questionable at best. Now whether that falls on Kinner or the Administration is not something I can answer. I do know that adequate assistant coaching help is hard for anyone to find.
Another factor is scheduling. This is something that probably does fall on Kinner. If I were him, beginning my coaching career, Pburg and Lawrence County would not be on my schedule. I dont care if Lawrence lost 100 in a row. Thats just me.
Finally, this is something a lot of people havent thought about. Why the decline in Paintsville talent???? Because Paintsville graduates/athletes, didnt raise their families in Paintsville. The 70's, 80's, 90's were full of 2nd and sometimes 3rd generation athletes. Some of those same players that were great in that time, don't raise their families in Paintsville now. Thus, resulting in a huge decline in the talent pool.

-So, finally, should Kinner still be the Coach next year?

A. I have to say yes. Many of his faults are a result of growing pains that have probably been corrected or at least understood by now. However the majority of his problems are simply a lack of talent that very few coaches could overcome. Are there changes he needs to make? Of course, every coach has to step back and evaluate what is working and what isn't, not only from an X and O standpoint, but also in how you interact with administration, parents, players, etc. Ultimately, once he changes his schedule he should be able to field a competitve, healthy team before playoffs begin. Then with some consistency, Paintsville will be able to compete with everyone they are suppossed to.

Just my opinion....

[#1 Blackcat Fan]

I am not to bad to add my thoughts to these type of debates, however, I would like to add my observations as totally an outsider who also knows quite a bit about Paintsville and their sports history, the players both athletically, administratively, and politically, and the overall scope of athletics in the Big Sandy Region. However, to come to an understanding of where Paintsville should go moving forward, they need to understand where they come from. So, lets break it down like this....

-Should Jim Tom Allen have been forced out?

A. Absolutely not. Jim Tom had paid his dues and won games and competed in every game while he was there. His teams were fundamentally sound, stong, and comparably fast with everyone they played against. His following success with Pburgs program is just more proof he was a quality coach who should have still been there.

-Should Coach Kinner have been hired following Allen's departure?

A. I don't see why not. Remember, Kinner was young, but so has every other coach at Paintsville when they took over the reigns of their respective sports. He had great pedigree, playing experience, and from all accounts was ready then and will make a great head coach. Plus, he was a Paintsville guy......Everyone knows....EVERYONE!!... that Paintsville fans, staff, and alumni want one of their own. I don't care if it were Dudley Hilton, Phillip Haywood, or Nick Saban, Paintsville people still want Paintsville people coaching their sports. I also don't buy the "John Doe or James Doe" applied and was looked over. Yeah, I am sure they applied, but it was because they wanted to see how much money would have been involved, how many classes they had to teach, facilities, etc. That doesn't mean they would have taken the job even if offered.

-How much affect has Johnson Central had on program?

A. Tremendous! Not because they are taking "Paintsville" kids, but because they are keeping their own. Did this hapen because of Kinner? No, because it had already began happening several years before, when Matney arrived.

-Is the Paintsville talent level on par to what it normally is?

A. Not even close. I read a statement earlier where someone said there could have been two to three all state potential kids on this past years team. You got to be kidding me. The talent level is below mediocre. And sadly, it doesnt appear it is getting any better. Its not only football, all of Paintsville's sports are struggling currently. Direct result of the lack of talent.

-Are there intangibles at play here?

A. More than people realize. Kinner's assistant staff is questionable at best. Now whether that falls on Kinner or the Administration is not something I can answer. I do know that adequate assistant coaching help is hard for anyone to find.
Another factor is scheduling. This is something that probably does fall on Kinner. If I were him, beginning my coaching career, Pburg and Lawrence County would not be on my schedule. I dont care if Lawrence lost 100 in a row. Thats just me.
Finally, this is something a lot of people havent thought about. Why the decline in Paintsville talent???? Because Paintsville graduates/athletes, didnt raise their families in Paintsville. The 70's, 80's, 90's were full of 2nd and sometimes 3rd generation athletes. Some of those same players that were great in that time, don't raise their families in Paintsville now. Thus, resulting in a huge decline in the talent pool.

-So, finally, should Kinner still be the Coach next year?

A. I have to say yes. Many of his faults are a result of growing pains that have probably been corrected or at least understood by now. However the majority of his problems are simply a lack of talent that very few coaches could overcome. Are there changes he needs to make? Of course, every coach has to step back and evaluate what is working and what isn't, not only from an X and O standpoint, but also in how you interact with administration, parents, players, etc. Ultimately, once he changes his schedule he should be able to field a competitve, healthy team before playoffs begin. Then with some consistency, Paintsville will be able to compete with everyone they are suppossed to.

Just my opinion....

Nice Post. Good breakdown.

[Superman20]

I am not to bad to add my thoughts to these type of debates, however, I would like to add my observations as totally an outsider who also knows quite a bit about Paintsville and their sports history, the players both athletically, administratively, and politically, and the overall scope of athletics in the Big Sandy Region. However, to come to an understanding of where Paintsville should go moving forward, they need to understand where they come from. So, lets break it down like this....

-Should Jim Tom Allen have been forced out?

A. Absolutely not. Jim Tom had paid his dues and won games and competed in every game while he was there. His teams were fundamentally sound, stong, and comparably fast with everyone they played against. His following success with Pburgs program is just more proof he was a quality coach who should have still been there.

-Should Coach Kinner have been hired following Allen's departure?

A. I don't see why not. Remember, Kinner was young, but so has every other coach at Paintsville when they took over the reigns of their respective sports. He had great pedigree, playing experience, and from all accounts was ready then and will make a great head coach. Plus, he was a Paintsville guy......Everyone knows....EVERYONE!!... that Paintsville fans, staff, and alumni want one of their own. I don't care if it were Dudley Hilton, Phillip Haywood, or Nick Saban, Paintsville people still want Paintsville people coaching their sports. I also don't buy the "John Doe or James Doe" applied and was looked over. Yeah, I am sure they applied, but it was because they wanted to see how much money would have been involved, how many classes they had to teach, facilities, etc. That doesn't mean they would have taken the job even if offered.

-How much affect has Johnson Central had on program?

A. Tremendous! Not because they are taking "Paintsville" kids, but because they are keeping their own. Did this hapen because of Kinner? No, because it had already began happening several years before, when Matney arrived.

-Is the Paintsville talent level on par to what it normally is?

A. Not even close. I read a statement earlier where someone said there could have been two to three all state potential kids on this past years team. You got to be kidding me. The talent level is below mediocre. And sadly, it doesnt appear it is getting any better. Its not only football, all of Paintsville's sports are struggling currently. Direct result of the lack of talent.

-Are there intangibles at play here?

A. More than people realize. Kinner's assistant staff is questionable at best. Now whether that falls on Kinner or the Administration is not something I can answer. I do know that adequate assistant coaching help is hard for anyone to find.
Another factor is scheduling. This is something that probably does fall on Kinner. If I were him, beginning my coaching career, Pburg and Lawrence County would not be on my schedule. I dont care if Lawrence lost 100 in a row. Thats just me.
Finally, this is something a lot of people havent thought about. Why the decline in Paintsville talent???? Because Paintsville graduates/athletes, didnt raise their families in Paintsville. The 70's, 80's, 90's were full of 2nd and sometimes 3rd generation athletes. Some of those same players that were great in that time, don't raise their families in Paintsville now. Thus, resulting in a huge decline in the talent pool.

-So, finally, should Kinner still be the Coach next year?

A. I have to say yes. Many of his faults are a result of growing pains that have probably been corrected or at least understood by now. However the majority of his problems are simply a lack of talent that very few coaches could overcome. Are there changes he needs to make? Of course, every coach has to step back and evaluate what is working and what isn't, not only from an X and O standpoint, but also in how you interact with administration, parents, players, etc. Ultimately, once he changes his schedule he should be able to field a competitve, healthy team before playoffs begin. Then with some consistency, Paintsville will be able to compete with everyone they are suppossed to.

Just my opinion....

Several parts of this post are simply not true.

-First part I have an issue with, Kinners "pedigree" that he was capable of taking over as head coach after Jim Tom. One year as an assistant is part of that pedigree, and not from all accounts did people that actually KNOW whats going on agreed from the beginning. How is that a great pedigree? lol thats hilarious. He played college ball, which is something that several alumni from paintsville can say. His peers that he graduated with questioned the hire from day one so not all accounts claimed he was a good fit. Actually several people that know the whole situation was skeptical from day one, so whoever told you that doesnt have a clue. LIke i said from day one, just because you can play the game doesnt mean you can coach it.

-The talent that was coached the last three seasons is better then what people are giving credit for. How can you showcase your talent when you run a style of play that discredits them? Jasons biggest flaw with this whole situation is that he's blamed the kids from the beginning, and HE HAS HAD 3 PLAYERS THAT HAD ALL STATE CALIBER POTENTIAL. Thats a fact, and anyone thats watched all three years knows thats the truth. I've spoken to more the one coach that has coached against paintsville and even they admitted that Paintsville would be better if they werent so predictable on offense and ran a better system. I know a lot that goes on in that school, and what types of athletes are in that school. Your judging players that are running a system thats not best for them and then discrediting them for it and thats wrong. The same kids that got beat in week one by Harlan, beat Harlan 38-0 when they were in middle school. Some of those players that didnt play football, didnt play because of jason and are still in the school system.

-I dont understand how outsiders that dont have a clue can get on here and dispute posters that actually know the situation. I knew this post wasn't accurate as soon as it said that Kinner had a great pedigree. If coaching for one season of high school football is a good resume and is sufficient enough to display that a man has enough ability to be a head coach and you wanna call that a good pedigree thats fine. It's hilarious to people close to the situation when people guess at things, or judge things from one ball game a year and then dispute people that have watched practices, watched the kids grow up, watched these kids win several ball games growing up, watched them get beat in ball games in high school, etc.

- The problem started when a coach was handed a job that he wasn't ready for with his "great pedigree". He's either ran off or angered every good assistant coach he's ever had from day one. He ran off Milton Preston who had coached for paintsville for years, and coached under Brugh. Said his techniques were to old and didn't work. Then anyone that comes around and knows more then him, he finds any excuse that he can to run them off. Thats why he's left with assistants that have no experience. One thing that paintsville still has is qualified alumni all over town that would be good coaches, but they dont want to help Jason because of his attitude. One of the several local coaches approached by Kinner told me that he knew better then to attempt to help him because the first time you dispute his schemes he gets rid of you. Their are better assistant coaches in the youth leagues in their are coaching the high school level.

- He can change the schedule and fill it full of cup cakes, but with his coaching ability he will get crushed by Fairview and Raceland every season. Sad part is he has some very talented young kids coming up in the program, but the parents arent wanting their kids to play for him because they have witnessed his "great coaching pedigree" and know that he's not a good coach. A 38% winning percentage in three years and the bonehead moves that people in PAINTSVILLE that actually watch more then one game a year is enough evidence. I state facts not fiction and I haven't based things on outside accounts from the he said, she said crap. Ive witnessed and seen the problems.

[SweetLemonade]

Idk the situation between PHS and their coaches or players, but I do know Paintsville should schedule a more simpler schedule to put up more wins. This is similar to what LCHS did to rebuild their program.

[Superman20]

Idk the situation between PHS and their coaches or players, but I do know Paintsville should schedule a more simpler schedule to put up more wins. This is similar to what LCHS did to rebuild their program.

agreed 100 percent, but thats not where the main problem is over all

[mr.charlie hustle]

I certainly understand the development of a support base of fans and friends, especially when there is a negative atmosphere looming over that to which the associate or friend is a part. It is important to have those people in the not so good times so they can support and defend. The problem in this case is that there is of cource a standing record to judge. That record to some degree has been discussed in this venue. The pages of the KHSAA records do not yield a promising picture for the Paintsville football program. It has been suggested that the coach be given one year, which would be in fact four. It has also been suggested that the administration has culpability in this matter due to a preference for home grown boys. To that I agree 100%. I think that has to do with money and control. Coach Miller has been mentioned on this thread and I believe his football 6-7-8 team went undefeated but I may be wrong. That is truly a talented group of kids but after they are introduced to the "Walter Mitty " spread and the "+ D", they will disappear into obscurity. Raines (sp),Chapman,L.Sammons and Lemasters; just run those names by the Tiger Blue and faithful and see what you get. The boat was already missed with Allen and C. Williams. AS to my opinion I believe the coach will stay. The only problem is that when the lockeroom doors are opened in August they might not be so full.

[MCDADDY]

Several parts of this post are simply not true.

-First part I have an issue with, Kinners "pedigree" that he was capable of taking over as head coach after Jim Tom. One year as an assistant is part of that pedigree, and not from all accounts did people that actually KNOW whats going on agreed from the beginning. How is that a great pedigree? lol thats hilarious. He played college ball, which is something that several alumni from paintsville can say. His peers that he graduated with questioned the hire from day one so not all accounts claimed he was a good fit. Actually several people that know the whole situation was skeptical from day one, so whoever told you that doesnt have a clue. LIke i said from day one, just because you can play the game doesnt mean you can coach it.

-The talent that was coached the last three seasons is better then what people are giving credit for. How can you showcase your talent when you run a style of play that discredits them? Jasons biggest flaw with this whole situation is that he's blamed the kids from the beginning, and HE HAS HAD 3 PLAYERS THAT HAD ALL STATE CALIBER POTENTIAL. Thats a fact, and anyone thats watched all three years knows thats the truth. I've spoken to more the one coach that has coached against paintsville and even they admitted that Paintsville would be better if they werent so predictable on offense and ran a better system. I know a lot that goes on in that school, and what types of athletes are in that school. Your judging players that are running a system thats not best for them and then discrediting them for it and thats wrong. The same kids that got beat in week one by Harlan, beat Harlan 38-0 when they were in middle school. Some of those players that didnt play football, didnt play because of jason and are still in the school system.

-I dont understand how outsiders that dont have a clue can get on here and dispute posters that actually know the situation. I knew this post wasn't accurate as soon as it said that Kinner had a great pedigree. If coaching for one season of high school football is a good resume and is sufficient enough to display that a man has enough ability to be a head coach and you wanna call that a good pedigree thats fine. It's hilarious to people close to the situation when people guess at things, or judge things from one ball game a year and then dispute people that have watched practices, watched the kids grow up, watched these kids win several ball games growing up, watched them get beat in ball games in high school, etc.

- The problem started when a coach was handed a job that he wasn't ready for with his "great pedigree". He's either ran off or angered every good assistant coach he's ever had from day one. He ran off Milton Preston who had coached for paintsville for years, and coached under Brugh. Said his techniques were to old and didn't work. Then anyone that comes around and knows more then him, he finds any excuse that he can to run them off. Thats why he's left with assistants that have no experience. One thing that paintsville still has is qualified alumni all over town that would be good coaches, but they dont want to help Jason because of his attitude. One of the several local coaches approached by Kinner told me that he knew better then to attempt to help him because the first time you dispute his schemes he gets rid of you. Their are better assistant coaches in the youth leagues in their are coaching the high school level.

- He can change the schedule and fill it full of cup cakes, but with his coaching ability he will get crushed by Fairview and Raceland every season. Sad part is he has some very talented young kids coming up in the program, but the parents arent wanting their kids to play for him because they have witnessed his "great coaching pedigree" and know that he's not a good coach. A 38% winning percentage in three years and the bonehead moves that people in PAINTSVILLE that actually watch more then one game a year is enough evidence. I state facts not fiction and I haven't based things on outside accounts from the he said, she said crap. Ive witnessed and seen the problems.

Superman, first thing you need to understand is what "pedigree" means. Pedigree does not mean coaching experience. If that is what I meant to say, then I would have said "coaching experience". Pedigree simply means "football background". And yes he has a solid football background as does multiple other people in Paintsville. So, now that we have that straightened out, that negates the majority of your rebuttal on my post. Now, has Kinner made tactical, strategic and personnel errors? Perhaps, as you can see when you read my post objectively, I didn't rule that out and as I said before, I don't know. As for the "all-state" talent. I am just going to simply disagree with you. Doderer was close to that level but not quite in my opinion.

[hitemup]

I am going to have to agree. There were no all-state caliber players on Paintsville's team. Jeremiah Doderor was close, but this years team, other than Caldwell #11 and Nordin? #21, was not very good. I will not dispute the fact that Kinner is or is not a good coach, but part of the problem is the talent level that was/is on the team. The sad thing is, I believe that they may be worse next year.

[Superman20]

I am going to have to agree. There were no all-state caliber players on Paintsville's team. Jeremiah Doderor was close, but this years team, other than Caldwell #11 and Nordin? #21, was not very good. I will not dispute the fact that Kinner is or is not a good coach, but part of the problem is the talent level that was/is on the team. The sad thing is, I believe that they may be worse next year.

Im not saying the team had all americans, im just saying a system isnt in place for them to be successful. The Burchett Kid #9 was the best over all athlete on this team, but he was kicked off the team for arguing with the coach. Nehemiah Doderer, Dyllon Brown, and a lineman (i forget his name) were the three that I was saying could have been all state talent caliber talent. Doderer ran for 1700 yards in a system that wasnt suited for the lineman blocking for him, if he would have been in a power system its untelling the numbers that he would have put up. He was put in a spread system with a qb that couldnt throw the ball. My theory is this, when a defense knows that you cant throw the football and your in a shotgun set, the linebackers or safeties (depends on the defense) will be at the line of scrimmage before your running backs will get there because they will cheat up a little considering they wont be worried about passing play. Therefore, you better hope your have a darn good back or they will be in big trouble when they get the ball in their hands. Next years talent will be worse because they are very young and the talented upperclassmen that would be pretty good players wont play football.

[Superman20]

Superman, first thing you need to understand is what "pedigree" means. Pedigree does not mean coaching experience. If that is what I meant to say, then I would have said "coaching experience". Pedigree simply means "football background". And yes he has a solid football background as does multiple other people in Paintsville. So, now that we have that straightened out, that negates the majority of your rebuttal on my post. Now, has Kinner made tactical, strategic and personnel errors? Perhaps, as you can see when you read my post objectively, I didn't rule that out and as I said before, I don't know. As for the "all-state" talent. I am just going to simply disagree with you. Doderer was close to that level but not quite in my opinion.

His football background is exactly what im disputing and I know what pedigree means. He may have a good playing background but does not have a solid coaching background which are two totally different things. The differences in those two backgrounds justifies my statements as a whole. I wont say that he doesnt have a football background because he does have college football experience. Just because you played at Georgetown doesn't make you the logical choice for a coaching job.He didnt have the experience or the coaching background to be qualified for the job. I can understand the arguement against the two players other than Doderer, but i will stand by my statement that Nehemiah Doderer had all state caliber talent, and would have been if he had played in the right system. Something we can both argue about, but can never be proven. If my posts sound hateful I dont mean for them too, I just state things for the way that myself and others see them and I understand why you disagree. :Thumbs:

[mr.charlie hustle]

I believe that is Nehemiah Doderer. His Junior and Senior years he had 2,931 yards rushing. He got 1700 yds with the infamous "Spread". Had he been at Central,Bell,Belfry, P-burg or any number of other schools that had a player styled offense,then this kid would have been really great. That argument is moot in lieu of historical events. He was given a scholarship to Union but ultimately declined. It is moot because no player has made it and none will with this direction. Even the best of players must have proper coaching, guidance,direction and mature attention. These of cource are subjective but what is one to assume in light of the record. Remember noone and I mean noone wanted things to be this way. If Coach Kinner is the coach in 2011 may best wishes go with him and the program.Please don't blame the kids.

[F.N.L.]

With Central's success as of late, Paintsville will lose out on the better athletes in Johnson co.. It's a no-brainer, If an up and coming kid is a player, he will be at JC.
In all reality imo Central's success has been Paintsville's downfall in football. But JC went out and hired one h#ll of a coach AND THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE in where JC is at and where Paintsville is at now.

[Superman20]

I believe that is Nehemiah Doderer. His Junior and Senior years he had 2,931 yards rushing. He got 1700 yds with the infamous "Spread". Had he been at Central,Bell,Belfry, P-burg or any number of other schools that had a player styled offense,then this kid would have been really great. That argument is moot in lieu of historical events. He was given a scholarship to Union but ultimately declined. It is moot because no player has made it and none will with this direction. Even the best of players must have proper coaching, guidance,direction and mature attention. These of cource are subjective but what is one to assume in light of the record. Remember noone and I mean noone wanted things to be this way. If Coach Kinner is the coach in 2011 may best wishes go with him and the program.Please don't blame the kids.

People dont take into consideration how things could have been different for some of these kids with proper coaching, but the staff and others have portrayed these kids in the school system as a whole of having no talent, when the exact opposite was being said of the same kids when they were younger and were winning ball games regardless of the sport. Talent isnt at the high level it used to be in the past, but you would be surprised at the talent that is in the hallways of that little school. The school wont contact anyone because of political reasons, and the superintendent obviously doesnt care if sports goes down hill. My main concern is passing up qualified, good young coaches that were alumni like Adam Collins and Justin Arms who are now successful teachers and assistants. Collins is a top of the line baseball coach at Pikeville Independent and Arms from what Im told is making a good name for himself at Johnson Central. Both were passed up when they were out of college looking for a job, but they will give jobs to people based on political reasons that arent certified. When Kinner was first hired (he might be certified now) he didnt have a teaching degree, and was teaching science with a Business Management degree. Now two young coaches are helping other schools and are being very successful when they are needed at paintsville, and were both wanting jobs at paintsville and were turned down.If I were either one of them I would stay where im at, even if given an opportunity to come back.

[Superman20]

With Central's success as of late, Paintsville will lose out on the better athletes in Johnson co.. It's a no-brainer, If an up and coming kid is a player, he will be at JC.
In all reality imo Central's success has been Paintsville's downfall in football. But JC went out and hired one h#ll of a coach AND THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE in where JC is at and where Paintsville is at now.

Good point. When JC hit rock bottom they went after the best coach they could find after they had made some terrible hires. JC will get the best athletes in the county and I wouldnt blame anyone for sending their kids to that program. Matney treats the kids great and he wins ball games. Can't lose in that situation

[Redneck]

Im not saying the team had all americans, im just saying a system isnt in place for them to be successful. The Burchett Kid #9 was the best over all athlete on this team, but he was kicked off the team for arguing with the coach. Nehemiah Doderer, Dyllon Brown, and a lineman (i forget his name) were the three that I was saying could have been all state talent caliber talent. Doderer ran for 1700 yards in a system that wasnt suited for the lineman blocking for him, if he would have been in a power system its untelling the numbers that he would have put up. He was put in a spread system with a qb that couldnt throw the ball. My theory is this, when a defense knows that you cant throw the football and your in a shotgun set, the linebackers or safeties (depends on the defense) will be at the line of scrimmage before your running backs will get there because they will cheat up a little considering they wont be worried about passing play. Therefore, you better hope your have a darn good back or they will be in big trouble when they get the ball in their hands. Next years talent will be worse because they are very young and the talented upperclassmen that would be pretty good players wont play football.

Trent was kicked off the team for cursin coach out, arguin was just part of it. There's not one coach in the entire state who would have let #9 get away with what he did, not one. So before you try to make Kinner look bad for kickin him off the team, get your facts right. And BTW, it wasn't just Jason, all the coaches and players wanted him kicked off for what he did and said. If you would like to know what happened and what was said, feel free to PM me and I'll tell you or anybody else.

As for Doderer, there's no doubt he was one heck of a player and IMO too, was an All-State player, could have played at any other school in EKY and many others across the state. He got his yards by himself, 99% of em came after first contact. He did it by himself because he didnt have an Oline that could block, even when they ran out of the I-formation, power football. Brown was also a good player, not as good as Doderer but he could have played at many schools in EKY.

You say they ran the spread last year and shouldn't have because they didnt have a QB who could throw the ball, well they had a QB who could throw it this year so what's the problem? My Senior year we started 3 Freshmen on the Oline and one at Fullback, we went 8-4 and was runner-up in the district (got beat by a TD against Pikeville in season finale), we ran the spread-o. Not only did we start 4 Freshmen on offense, we started 4 freshmen on defense (one of which started O too). That's a total of 7 freshmen that started. Why were we successful? We were successful because everyone played their butts off for 4 quarters, including the fershmen. And incase you forgot, my Senior year was the year after we won the Region, lost our entire offensive line, lost our QB who threw for over 2000 yards, lost our top WR who had 1500 yards recieving, lost another WR, lost 3 startin DL, 2 LB's, and we lost our top returnin rusher to injury in out last preseason scrimmage who had over 1,200 yards rushing our Junior year, he also started on defense. Nobody gave us a chance, nobody thought we'd win 3 games but we proved em all wrong, runnin the same offense we did the year before, an offense that nobody thought we could run because we didn't have a breakout back, had a new QB and Oline.

[Dungy]

I think all of these posts agree that the wins/losses are not where Paintsville wants to be. No matter why, the real question is what can and should be done to fix it? Put the program's energy into that. New Head Coach? New assistants? New or improved offseason program? More emphasis on the lower levels? Some of these things parents and boosters can impact; some they cannot depending on how the school administration responds.

[Superman20]

Trent was kicked off the team for cursin coach out, arguin was just part of it. There's not one coach in the entire state who would have let #9 get away with what he did, not one. So before you try to make Kinner look bad for kickin him off the team, get your facts right. And BTW, it wasn't just Jason, all the coaches and players wanted him kicked off for what he did and said. If you would like to know what happened and what was said, feel free to PM me and I'll tell you or anybody else.

As for Doderer, there's no doubt he was one heck of a player and IMO too, was an All-State player, could have played at any other school in EKY and many others across the state. He got his yards by himself, 99% of em came after first contact. He did it by himself because he didnt have an Oline that could block, even when they ran out of the I-formation, power football. Brown was also a good player, not as good as Doderer but he could have played at many schools in EKY.

You say they ran the spread last year and shouldn't have because they didnt have a QB who could throw the ball, well they had a QB who could throw it this year so what's the problem? My Senior year we started 3 Freshmen on the Oline and one at Fullback, we went 8-4 and was runner-up in the district (got beat by a TD against Pikeville in season finale), we ran the spread-o. Not only did we start 4 Freshmen on offense, we started 4 freshmen on defense (one of which started O too). That's a total of 7 freshmen that started. Why were we successful? We were successful because everyone played their butts off for 4 quarters, including the fershmen. And incase you forgot, my Senior year was the year after we won the Region, lost our entire offensive line, lost our QB who threw for over 2000 yards, lost our top WR who had 1500 yards recieving, lost another WR, lost 3 startin DL, 2 LB's, and we lost our top returnin rusher to injury in out last preseason scrimmage who had over 1,200 yards rushing our Junior year, he also started on defense. Nobody gave us a chance, nobody thought we'd win 3 games but we proved em all wrong, runnin the same offense we did the year before, an offense that nobody thought we could run because we didn't have a breakout back, had a new QB and Oline.

I wasn't trying to make him look bad for kicking trent off the team, I just didn't want to post what the boy done to everyone on this board. Figured the staff would want that to be private. Your senior year burrhead ran more then the shotgun set and simpkins was very capable of running the spread with yourself and the arms twins as his receivers. Burr done an excellent job coaching that team. This years team for Paintsville wasn't as talented at the wr position as your senior year team was. When you all ran something besides the shotgun set you all were way to predictable this season. That wasn't a problem with burrs play calling. The oline was more athletic when you played at certain positions including with andrew brown and ryan brown. The line this season was big but not athletic to run the spread.

[hawg laig]

In my opinion, one thing that is hurting the Tigers is hurting all of the small schools in the state. The football program is having to compete with the soccer program for a finite amount of athletes. Large schools do not have this problem because of their huge student populations but at small schools it has a huge impact.
As soccer grows in popularity football at small schools will continue to decline.
Make boys soccer a spring sport. It won't compete with football. The type of kid who would play either sport are very similar in make up; very active, athletic, aggressive. These type of kids usually don't play baseball because the game moves too slow for them. And as far as putting soccer in competition with track, well track is so individualized that thre is a very minimal need for daily practice.

[OffTheHook]

In my opinion, one thing that is hurting the Tigers is hurting all of the small schools in the state. The football program is having to compete with the soccer program for a finite amount of athletes. Large schools do not have this problem because of their huge student populations but at small schools it has a huge impact.
As soccer grows in popularity football at small schools will continue to decline.
Make boys soccer a spring sport. It won't compete with football. The type of kid who would play either sport are very similar in make up; very active, athletic, aggressive. These type of kids usually don't play baseball because the game moves too slow for them. And as far as putting soccer in competition with track, well track is so individualized that thre is a very minimal need for daily practice.

LOL...OK.....I can name seven baseball players on Paintsville's baseball team now. And maybe more than that next season. Soccer has NOTHING to do with it at Paintsville. They are allowed to play both and practices and games are scheduled with no conflicts.

[mr.charlie hustle]

" D-I-P-L-O-M-A-C-Y" !!!!!!!!! ?????? :eyeroll::dontthink