11-05-2010, 09:25 AM
"It is never right to do what is wrong and it is never wrong to do what is right."
Where there is smoke there is usually fire! If PCC has in fact recruited players illegally, they most certainly should suffer the consequences. Moreover if they are guilty, the major burden of responsibility falls upon the Coach, the school's Principal, and the Pike County School Superintendent. They should know what is going on in their realm of responsibility.
The ineligible players should not be allowed to continue to play, and all games that they have played in should be forfeited. As far as the adults involved in this, I'm not sure what their fate should be, especially the Pike County School officials.
The whole scenario is suspect. I've heard rumors early on that PCC had ineligible players and there was going to be an investigation by the KHSAA; what has taken so long? The elapsed time hurts everyone involved. There is nothing like uncertainty.
But if the KHSAA finds that there were no ineligible players involved, shame on those that instigated this situation. Should they be punished?
This situation should be resolved immediately, before PCC plays any playoff game. It is not fair to PCC or any of their opponents. After all the time that has elapsed and the evidence from both sides should be complete, a final decision should be made today.
Where there is smoke there is usually fire! If PCC has in fact recruited players illegally, they most certainly should suffer the consequences. Moreover if they are guilty, the major burden of responsibility falls upon the Coach, the school's Principal, and the Pike County School Superintendent. They should know what is going on in their realm of responsibility.
The ineligible players should not be allowed to continue to play, and all games that they have played in should be forfeited. As far as the adults involved in this, I'm not sure what their fate should be, especially the Pike County School officials.
The whole scenario is suspect. I've heard rumors early on that PCC had ineligible players and there was going to be an investigation by the KHSAA; what has taken so long? The elapsed time hurts everyone involved. There is nothing like uncertainty.
But if the KHSAA finds that there were no ineligible players involved, shame on those that instigated this situation. Should they be punished?
This situation should be resolved immediately, before PCC plays any playoff game. It is not fair to PCC or any of their opponents. After all the time that has elapsed and the evidence from both sides should be complete, a final decision should be made today.
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11-05-2010, 12:07 PM
I think that if we took the time to look at what the KHSAA's handbook states about transfers and penalties then we would better understand the situation PCC faces.
By Law - 6 in the KHSAA handbook address the transfer rule. Until I read it I thought that all you had to do was move, but that is not the case. Most of the time they will waive the penalty for a bona-fide change of residence but they don't have to. It can be found on their website under Handbook.
By Law 33 shows the penalties that can be imposed by the KHSAA on administrators, athletic directors, principals, coaches, and players.
KHSAA has made their ruling and from this point on the players are allowed to play and school officials cannot be personally penalized from the time of the court injunction because they cannot be forced to break a judges decision. But they are accountable for anything done wrong intentionally prior to the court ruling.
What is going to happen is that there will come a day when the rule will be absolute and there will be no waviers issued because of taking advantage of the rules. This hurts the innocent.
Yes there have been many cases where people beat the system. Sometimes it is in high school athletics, academics, but most of the time it is in real life that people are always trying to beat the system.
The fear of consequences must be greater than the rewards. Until then we will have recruiting.
By Law - 6 in the KHSAA handbook address the transfer rule. Until I read it I thought that all you had to do was move, but that is not the case. Most of the time they will waive the penalty for a bona-fide change of residence but they don't have to. It can be found on their website under Handbook.
By Law 33 shows the penalties that can be imposed by the KHSAA on administrators, athletic directors, principals, coaches, and players.
KHSAA has made their ruling and from this point on the players are allowed to play and school officials cannot be personally penalized from the time of the court injunction because they cannot be forced to break a judges decision. But they are accountable for anything done wrong intentionally prior to the court ruling.
What is going to happen is that there will come a day when the rule will be absolute and there will be no waviers issued because of taking advantage of the rules. This hurts the innocent.
Yes there have been many cases where people beat the system. Sometimes it is in high school athletics, academics, but most of the time it is in real life that people are always trying to beat the system.
The fear of consequences must be greater than the rewards. Until then we will have recruiting.
Place the blame where it belongs. They are going to be punished because of the adults in the situation who took shortcuts and broke the rules. There is no justification for cheating and if they are found to have intentionally broke the rules, then blame those in charge.
11-05-2010, 12:48 PM
See the Highlands case in 2004. KHSAA has very little power when it comes to matters like this in the long run. As long as their is a judge willing to rule in favor of PCC, they will come out ok.
11-05-2010, 01:17 PM
You are right about the judge's ruling. However the schools are members of the KHSAA and the fines, penalties, and forfeits do not fall under that injunction.
After the headlines and the games are played very little is printed or made available except for the forfeitures.
After the headlines and the games are played very little is printed or made available except for the forfeitures.
11-05-2010, 02:07 PM
I heard there was a meeting at 2 pm today.. any word from this
11-05-2010, 02:22 PM
Pirate Pal Wrote:That's true to a point, but peer pressure that this age is what most succumb to and I would almost bet that as hard as it is saying no to a person their own age, it would be impossible to say no to a Coach/parent who is applying that pressure. In my opinion, the Coach should receive more of a punishment than the kid in this situation.:Thumbs:
Twitter: @tc_analytics
11-05-2010, 03:44 PM
Just heard from a pretty reliable source that Boggs was confirmed eligible today? What's the scoop on that?
11-05-2010, 03:52 PM
crazytaxidriver Wrote:I agree with your last paragraph vundy. But it's hard to make a point typing everything out on a cell phone. And it wouldn't come across the way I wanted it to anyway. But I wasn't trying to drag anyone else into this.
I don't believe there is a conspiracy against pc.
Like i said earlier someone needs to be more thorough in their initial investigations so this stuff don't happen.
But I do want to ask what happens if the parties are found guilty? Are they going to make the kid go back to whatever school he came from??
lol, that sucks.
That's a good question, I'd also like to know what would happen. If it's found that he's coming from Wolfe County to school everyday, they might make him go back to school down there. Can a kid from down there go to Central if he wants and pay tuition? Someone clear this up for us.
.
11-05-2010, 08:43 PM
Unless the rule book has changed since I coached 10 years ago there is a statement in the rules that would end all such probems. At one time the rule book stated " A student cannot transfer schools to be on a perceived better team or to get away from a coach they do get along with even by moving."
11-05-2010, 08:49 PM
Here's the offcial court docket of the case:
Quote:PIKE CIRCUIT COURT / CASE NUMBER: 10-CI-01663
SHOUSE, GINA HALL , ET AL VS. KY HIGH SCHOOL ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION Source:
Case filed on 10/29/2010 OTHER ; Open Judge: HON. STEVEN DANIEL COMBS
PLAINTIFF / PETITIONER: SHOUSE, GINA HALL
PLAINTIFF / PETITIONER: SHOUSE, CORY
ATTORNEY FOR PLAINTIFF: MORGAN, JUSTIN,
PLAINTIFF / PETITIONER: BOGGS, WILLIAM
DEFENDANT / RESPONDENT: KY HIGH SCHOOL ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION,
ATTORNEY FOR DEFENDANT (CIVIL): COLLINS, CHAD
Document(s) Information
1 Filed on 10/29/2010 COMPLAINT / PETITION
2 Filed on 10/29/2010 ORDER RESTRAINING
3 Filed on 10/29/2010 BOND - OTHER
4 Filed on 10/29/2010 BOND - OTHER
5 Filed on 11/04/2010 NOTICE - OTHER
6 Filed on 11/04/2010 ORDER SETTING TRIAL / HEARING; FIRST CLASS MAIL
7 Filed on 11/05/2010 NOTICE - OTHER
8 Filed on 11/05/2010 MISCELLANEOUS
Court Date(s) Information
1 MOTION NOT REQUIRING HEARING on Judge: HON. STEVEN DANIEL COMBS Time: hours;
Motion 1 filed on: 10/29/2010 MOTION FOR RESTRAINING ORDER Filed By: AP
2 MOTION NOT REQUIRING HEARING on Judge: HON. STEVEN DANIEL COMBS Time: hours
Motion 1 filed on: 11/04/2010 MOTION - OTHER Filed By: AD
3 OTHER HEARING on 11/05/2010 Judge: HON. STEVEN DANIEL COMBS Time: 1400 hours;
4 MOTION HOUR on 11/05/2010 Judge: HON. STEVEN DANIEL COMBS Time: 0900 hours;
Motion 1 filed on: 11/02/2010 MOTION FOR INJUNCTION Filed By: AP
5 MOTION HOUR on 11/12/2010 Judge: HON. STEVEN DANIEL COMBS Time: 0900 hours;
Motion 1 filed on: 11/05/2010 MOTION - OTHER Filed By: AD
11-05-2010, 08:52 PM
I should have looked up the rules on the net before I posted. The rules now say the same thing but in different words. Now it simply state you cant transfer for sports reasons even if that is only one of the reasons you transfer.
11-05-2010, 10:20 PM
If the players start there High school career at Belfry isn't it perfectly legal to continue to go to school there for the remainder of there HS career. Plus it is basically on the border of KY/WV so a lot of students that have WV residences probably live closer to belfry than any WV school. Once williamson, Maetwan and the other school consolidates you better believe that Belfry will be receiving many more WV students/players
11-05-2010, 10:47 PM
Jeepman Wrote:I think Russell resolved the problem.
Exactly right. :Thumbs:
11-06-2010, 02:05 AM
I knew Shouse wouldnt be a problem, he lives down the road from me. It's a small world after all.
11-06-2010, 03:00 AM
I guess we won't have to worry about Pike Central forfeiting any playoff wins ...
11-06-2010, 08:36 AM
mandan Wrote:So the fact that PCC lost now makes all the "investigation" stuff go away?
Quite the contrary, the loss to Russel should have no bearing on the investigation. If there are found guilty of recruiting illegal players, they should suffer the consequences. Whatever the situation is, it should be resolved immediately. Guilty or Innocent should be rendered very soon! This shouldn't be dragged out indefinitely.
11-06-2010, 09:22 AM
loser09 Wrote:FACT- Was not any parents that turned them in... They have got pictures for Coach picking them up on 205 in Breathitt Co.How in the world would they get pics from that part of the world? They would have to have been followed or something.
Twitter: @tc_analytics
11-07-2010, 12:27 AM
fedscreekviking Wrote:I should have looked up the rules on the net before I posted. The rules now say the same thing but in different words. Now it simply state you cant transfer for sports reasons even if that is only one of the reasons you transfer.
Lamest thing ever. Technically, they could apply that to ANY athlete who transferred.
11-07-2010, 01:58 AM
loser09 Wrote:FACT- Was not any parents that turned them in... They have got pictures for Coach picking them up on 205 in Breathitt Co.
Your Facts are wrong. It was a parent that followed and stalked other kids that were not involved and didn't play football. These are facts, and the parents are waiting their turn to sue. It's gonna be interesting to see what other agencies will be sued as well. Too much speculation and untruths here, the whole story is yet to be revealed. Let's hope that the KHSSA has their ducks in a row and are ready. Because whom ever falls is gonna fall hard.
11-07-2010, 03:03 AM
OrangenowBlue Wrote:I think it is ironic that you have Pikeville fans and Belfry fans being critical of Pike Central over recruiting allegations. If you go in the parking lot of Belfry High school, there are more West Virginia tags then in the parking lot of WVU football stadium on gameday. For over twenty years they have kids that live in West Virginia and play for Belfry. They can say whatever they want to justify this but it isn't nothing but plain ole HYPOCRISY. As far as Pikeville, they have had the same thing with kids from West Virginia and all over Pike County. When Pikeville won their state titles in the late eighties/early nineties, they had kids from more states then the University of Kentucky had on their team. So if you live in a glass house, dont be throwing any stones and believe me these two schools have lived in glass house for years.And what have Pikeville and Belfry ever been found guilty of by the KHSAA? You can play the "Their just picking on PC" card all you want but what is happening up on Buckleys Creek hill right now is a self inflicted wound. When you hire a coach who has shown a repeated behavior of believing the rules dont apply to him this is what you get.
11-07-2010, 04:43 AM
a little off the subject but Bell County has had players from harrogate,tn playing on their football team as far back as i can recall (1995) and a few times these kids were some of the best players on the team. So this probably goes on at about every school in the state. Local kids wanting to play for either the better school in a small area or just with their friends. here we have have 4 schools within 20 miles pineville bell middlesboro n cumberland gap,tn
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