[Leaping Lee]

Leeping Lee

Like I said Kouns is a crook [B]but the reality is Ashland lead 25-20 and had more players with 2 fouls than NCC had team fouls and that is an indisputable fact. If Kouns was gonna take over he needed to do it early.[/B] Anyone who watched NCC play knew they were the superior team so if you were gonna cheat them you needed to do it early.[/QUOTE]

Lee reality is Bob Kouns is always officiating a AIT game every year. Usually the first half he lets it play out and when the game gets in the fourth quarter or the deciding minutes thats when the "Closer" takes over. He didn't earn that nickname by mistake. Bob is smart enough not to try and make up a twenty point deficit. A indisputable fact officials come and go but Bob remains every year in the AIT that is a fact . Good Luck the rest of the year and hopefully Bob Kouns will be calling girls games in March like last year when all the boys teams Black balled him .[/QUOTE]

I'm only explaining why he was assigned every Ashland game in this AIT, I am not defending Bob Kouns. For the record Ashland is 7-2 in games not refereed by Kouns and 2-1 in games involving Kouns. Has he tipped the scales in the past? absolutely, last years opening round of the AIT is a great example but this year he was a non factor. Ashland benefited more from snow this year than they did from Bob Kouns.

And rest assured Kouns has tipped the scales early in games not just in the second half. So I stand by my statement you emphasised with the underline.

[Truth]

1. The selection of referees for the AIT was done solely by Ashland.
2. The assigning of referees for each game was done solely by Ashland.
3. In recent years, Ashland has become quite dependent upon Kouns in important games.
4. The NCC game was never close enough for Kouns to assist Ashland. Still, although Ashland, from the beginning, played from behind and had to play catch up and had to press almost the entire game, the teams shot the same number of foul shots and NCC committed one more personal foul than Ashland.
5. Kouns seems to perform his magic in both halves. The most blatant example was in the opening round of the district tournament in 2009.
6. Kidwell is wise to blackball Kouns. Others should be wise enough by now to do the same.
7. I agree with most of what was posted directly above by Leaping Lee (other than the part that is Ashland spin). Leaping Lee is a good man although we don't always agree on specifics.

[HD28]

How does Ashland choose the officials, and then make assignments? I've never heard of this....the assigning secretary isn't involved?

[Truth]

How does Ashland choose the officials, and then make assignments? I've never heard of this....the assigning secretary isn't involved?

In tournaments such as the AIT, the selection is made by the host school and not by the assigning secretary.

Assigning secretaries are not always exempt from questions. The 2009 district game I mention above was expected to be a difficult game for Ashland against a bitter rival. Kouns was not assigned to referee the 64th District. He was assigned to a different district. However, for some never explained reason, he was switched from a game in his assigned district to the Ashland game in the 64th District. Kouns made his cameo appearance and went back to the other district.

But, while there, he played the staring role (you can check it out) in a game in which Ashland trailed the whole game and was forced to pressed the whole game. The other team never pressed. It had the lead. However, when the dust cleared, Ashland had shot 39 foul shots and the other team 11. Needless to say, Ashland won by the overwhelming disparity in fouls and foul shots. By the way, Kouns called the majority of the fouls on the losing team while calling one late in the fourth quarter on Ashland. And, of course, there is the issue of turnovers. As I said, check it out. I believe the coach of the losing team still has a tape of the game.

And, that is just one example. I'm sure others can contribute more.

[Leaping Lee]

1. The selection of referees for the AIT was done solely by Ashland.
2. The assigning of referees for each game was done solely by Ashland.
3. In recent years, Ashland has become quite dependent upon Kouns in important games.
4. The NCC game was never close enough for Kouns to assist Ashland. Still, although Ashland, from the beginning, played from behind and had to play catch up and had to press almost the entire game, the teams shot the same number of foul shots and NCC committed one more personal foul than Ashland.
5. Kouns seems to perform his magic in both halves. The most blatant example was in the opening round of the district tournament in 2009.
6. Kidwell is wise to blackball Kouns. Others should be wise enough by now to do the same.
7. I agree with most of what was posted directly above by Leaping Lee (other than the part that is Ashland spin). Leaping Lee is a good man although we don't always agree on specifics.

Truth, I agree with most everything you have said about Kouns, I cannot confirm or deny your claims about the game in 2009 but I have heard the same things from my friends in Elliott Co.

#2 is greatly misleading. Yes, the host school of all tournaments assign the officials but the must honor any strikes against officials. The point is, when Ashland and Russell both won then Kouns had to call the Ashland games. If Russell had defeated NCC the Kouns would not have called the finals.

Also, Ashland did not trail the entire game. They lead 25-20 midway through the second quarter. The lead expanded when 3 of Ashland's starters picked up two fouls and went to the bench. I don't think for one second that foul trouble was the reason for NCC's victory it just spend up the process. NCC was the class of the field and deserved the championship trophy. I'm willing to bet it won't be their last.

So there is no "Ashland spin" I'm just stating the facts as they are it might not go along with your take or Harry's take but that's how it Is

[Truth]

All the fuss could have been avoided if Ashland, since it obviously knew Russell had blackballed Kouns, choose someone other than Kouns to referee the tournament. By selecting Kouns, even though it knew of the blackball, Ashland set itself up to have him call its games. It also gave Ashland an "excuse" if anyone complained about it.

Slick? Absolutely. But no one ever accused the Ashland people of being dumb.

Unfortunately for them, NCC was far superior to Ashland.

But, I agree with most of what Leaping Lee has stated. On the rest, we can just agree to disagree. Nothing wrong with that.

[Leaping Lee]

All the fuss could have been avoided if Ashland, since it obviously knew Russell had blackballed Kouns, choose someone other than Kouns to referee the tournament. By selecting Kouns, even though it knew of the blackball, Ashland set itself up to have him call its games. It also gave Ashland an "excuse" if anyone complained about it.

Slick? Absolutely. But no one ever accused the Ashland people of being dumb.

Unfortunately for them, NCC was far superior to Ashland.

But, I agree with most of what Leaping Lee has stated. On the rest, we can just agree to disagree. Nothing wrong with that.

All could be avoided if Bob Kouns was blackballed by the entire region. That is certainly a common ground we share. I think you are reaching a bit on Ashland's ability to predict the future. I think most interested observers felt Russell was an underdog in their opening round game, if they had lost Kouns could have called opposite Ashland. I'm not sure that's what would have happened but it would have been possible.

I agree that NCC was the superior team, not only to Ashland but to the entire field. Anyone who had seen them play knew that going into the tournament.

[Truth]

All could be avoided if Bob Kouns was blackballed by the entire region. That is certainly a common ground we share. I think you are reaching a bit on Ashland's ability to predict the future. I think most interested observers felt Russell was an underdog in their opening round game, if they had lost Kouns could have called opposite Ashland. I'm not sure that's what would have happened but it would have been possible.

I agree that NCC was the superior team, not only to Ashland but to the entire field. Anyone who had seen them play knew that going into the tournament.

Ashland ended up with two pud games- the first by design and the second by lucky weather. Regardless of the situation, Kouns would have definitely refereed the second game if Ashland played Henderson County and the championship game if it included Ashland. But, that is being a bit too picky. Its their tournament and they can do as they please. If others don't like it, they can play elsewhere. Have a good day Leaping Lee and enjoy the remainder of the basketball season. If we all always agreed it would be a boring matter. Good luck to Elliott County.

[Leaping Lee]

Ashland ended up with two pud games- the first by design and the second by lucky weather. Regardless of the situation, Kouns would have definitely refereed the second game if Ashland played Henderson County and the championship game if it included Ashland. But, that is being a bit too picky. Its their tournament and they can do as they please. If others don't like it, they can play elsewhere. Have a good day Leaping Lee and enjoy the remainder of the basketball season. If we all always agreed it would be a boring matter. Good luck to Elliott County.

If the championship game was Ashland vs. Russell, Kouns would not have been officating that game, no way, no how.

[Truth]

If the championship game was Ashland vs. Russell, Kouns would not have been officating that game, no way, no how.

That would have made for an interesting development. Would the blackball trump the right of the host team to assign officials in an independent tournament run by the host team?

Interesting. But, I have always heard that Ashland's AD and Russell's AD are like two peas from the same pod so they would have worked it out. Now Russell's coach, to his credit, may not be as amicable toward Ashland.

[Leaping Lee]

That would have made for an interesting development. Would the blackball trump the right of the host team to assign officials in an independent tournament run by the host team?

Interesting. But, I have always heard that Ashland's AD and Russell's AD are like two peas from the same pod so they would have worked it out. Now Russell's coach, to his credit, may not be as amicable toward Ashland.

No matter the situation both teams are operating under he KHSAA rules so like I said, no way.

And Kidwell and Biggs are very good friends.

[Truth]

No matter the situation both teams are operating under he KHSAA rules so like I said, no way.

And Kidwell and Biggs are very good friends.

Sounds good to me.

[Blacktop]

Leeping Lee

Like I said Kouns is a crook [B]but the reality is Ashland lead 25-20 and had more players with 2 fouls than NCC had team fouls and that is an indisputable fact. If Kouns was gonna take over he needed to do it early.[/B] Anyone who watched NCC play knew they were the superior team so if you were gonna cheat them you needed to do it early.

Lee reality is Bob Kouns is always officiating a AIT game every year. Usually the first half he lets it play out and when the game gets in the fourth quarter or the deciding minutes thats when the "Closer" takes over. He didn't earn that nickname by mistake. Bob is smart enough not to try and make up a twenty point deficit. A indisputable fact officials come and go but Bob remains every year in the AIT that is a fact . Good Luck the rest of the year and hopefully Bob Kouns will be calling girls games in March like last year when all the boys teams Black balled him .[/QUOTE]

I'm only explaining why he was assigned every Ashland game in this AIT, I am not defending Bob Kouns. For the record Ashland is 7-2 in games not refereed by Kouns and 2-1 in games involving Kouns. Has he tipped the scales in the past? absolutely, last years opening round of the AIT is a great example but this year he was a non factor. Ashland benefited more from snow this year than they did from Bob Kouns.

And rest assured Kouns has tipped the scales early in games not just in the second half. So I stand by my statement you emphasised with the underline.

[/QUOTE]Lee I said USUALLY NOT ALWAYS. Calm down you still have 8 weeks left in the season. You have a fine team enjoy it. Best of Luck.

[Leaping Lee]

Lee reality is Bob Kouns is always officiating a AIT game every year. Usually the first half he lets it play out and when the game gets in the fourth quarter or the deciding minutes thats when the "Closer" takes over. He didn't earn that nickname by mistake. Bob is smart enough not to try and make up a twenty point deficit. A indisputable fact officials come and go but Bob remains every year in the AIT that is a fact . Good Luck the rest of the year and hopefully Bob Kouns will be calling girls games in March like last year when all the boys teams Black balled him .

I'm only explaining why he was assigned every Ashland game in this AIT, I am not defending Bob Kouns. For the record Ashland is 7-2 in games not refereed by Kouns and 2-1 in games involving Kouns. Has he tipped the scales in the past? absolutely, last years opening round of the AIT is a great example but this year he was a non factor. Ashland benefited more from snow this year than they did from Bob Kouns.

And rest assured Kouns has tipped the scales early in games not just in the second half. So I stand by my statement you emphasised with the underline.

[/QUOTE]Lee I said USUALLY NOT ALWAYS. Calm down you still have 8 weeks left in the season. You have a fine team enjoy it. Best of Luck.[/QUOTE]

Calm down? I'm just having a friendly conversation. I'm anything but upset.

[Wildcat1]

Why in the world is this thread still active? Don't the "update" threads usually die down once the final score is posted?nicker::argue: