[Red and Black]

imagine being a senior playing in your last district game ever, and you foul out with 4 fouls......

Then getting flipped off by the guy keeping the official book who just cheated to have you fouled out.

[Fanman]

Does anyone know what the coach said in the prayer circle? What set the player off that went after him?

[P. Fanning]

Does anyone know what the coach said in the prayer circle? What set the player off that went after him?

From what I gather, Mike Howard took the microphone, I am guessing to lead the post game prayer. Keathley's mother yelled at Howard something to the effect of "Nobody wants to hear you!" Howard yelled back "Nobody wants to hear you either!" Braxton then charged at Mike. 

Bad form by Mike, especially considering he is a preacher.

[kai]

No disrespect meant just curious if they did and if things were good at time.

[Sports72]

Did they hand out punishment today

[UK Fan14]

Only question I have is did PBurg score keeper go to official book at half time or any point to make sure books were the same, like they are suppose to by rule to avoid a mess like this.  In 57 I know they did this and mistakes were caught and corrected.

This is a good question. I know the lady that always keeps the book for Pburg was sitting up at the media table on the 2nd level across the floor from the score table, but I’m not sure if that was a voluntary decision on her part or if she was told to sit up there. I assume it was voluntary on her part.

My question though is whether or not all the books recorded the same number of total fouls. WMDJ announced that all 4 media book keepers had Allen with 4 fouls, so did the official book keeper mistakenly mark down a foul that was supposed to be on another kid to Allen or did he simply just add another foul on Allen? This should be reflected by the number of total fouls across all 5 books. I think that’s the big story. A mistake is one thing, but adding a foul out of thin air in overtime is another thing entirely.

The lady who always keeps the book for Pburg was not sitting at a media table on 2nd level, she was at the scorer's table where she normally sits. Again, the books were compared at halftime and everything matched. The bench knew Allen had 3 fouls and Waller had 4 at time of error. 
Look at the scoreboard after the foul is called and the shooter was already at the line (with the ball) and it reads foul on player #5 - foul #4, so someone at the table knew it was his 4th foul and then......he had fouled out.

[Red and Black]

Only question I have is did PBurg score keeper go to official book at half time or any point to make sure books were the same, like they are suppose to by rule to avoid a mess like this.  In 57 I know they did this and mistakes were caught and corrected.

This is a good question. I know the lady that always keeps the book for Pburg was sitting up at the media table on the 2nd level across the floor from the score table, but I’m not sure if that was a voluntary decision on her part or if she was told to sit up there. I assume it was voluntary on her part.

My question though is whether or not all the books recorded the same number of total fouls. WMDJ announced that all 4 media book keepers had Allen with 4 fouls, so did the official book keeper mistakenly mark down a foul that was supposed to be on another kid to Allen or did he simply just add another foul on Allen? This should be reflected by the number of total fouls across all 5 books. I think that’s the big story. A mistake is one thing, but adding a foul out of thin air in overtime is another thing entirely.

The lady who always keeps the book for Pburg was not sitting at a media table on 2nd level, she was at the scorer's table where she normally sits. Again, the books were compared at halftime and everything matched. The bench knew Allen had 3 fouls and Waller had 4 at time of error. 
Look at the scoreboard after the foul is called and the shooter was already at the line (with the ball) and it reads foul on player #5 - foul #4, so someone at the table knew it was his 4th foul and then......he had fouled out.

Good to know, thank you for the correction. I didn’t look for her there all night and didn’t notice her but somebody told me she was up with the media after the game, my mistake.

[4 Quarters]

Looks like a lot of assuming going on in this thread.

[UK Fan14]

Only question I have is did PBurg score keeper go to official book at half time or any point to make sure books were the same, like they are suppose to by rule to avoid a mess like this.  In 57 I know they did this and mistakes were caught and corrected.

This is a good question. I know the lady that always keeps the book for Pburg was sitting up at the media table on the 2nd level across the floor from the score table, but I’m not sure if that was a voluntary decision on her part or if she was told to sit up there. I assume it was voluntary on her part.

My question though is whether or not all the books recorded the same number of total fouls. WMDJ announced that all 4 media book keepers had Allen with 4 fouls, so did the official book keeper mistakenly mark down a foul that was supposed to be on another kid to Allen or did he simply just add another foul on Allen? This should be reflected by the number of total fouls across all 5 books. I think that’s the big story. A mistake is one thing, but adding a foul out of thin air in overtime is another thing entirely.

The lady who always keeps the book for Pburg was not sitting at a media table on 2nd level, she was at the scorer's table where she normally sits. Again, the books were compared at halftime and everything matched. The bench knew Allen had 3 fouls and Waller had 4 at time of error. 
Look at the scoreboard after the foul is called and the shooter was already at the line (with the ball) and it reads foul on player #5 - foul #4, so someone at the table knew it was his 4th foul and then......he had fouled out.

Good to know, thank you for the correction. I didn’t look for her there all night and didn’t notice her but somebody told me she was up with the media after the game, my mistake.

No problem, just trying to clear up some of the questions/concerns

[Gridiron_Raid]

Players are kids, fans and coaches are adults. They are held to different standards. Criticize those who can vote and buy a beer, not those learning to drive.

Would it have changed some folks minds if the player had charged at another player, would it not be this sort of consequence and controversy? Would it have been okay then?

I think what this and a scorers table robbery is taking away from is the GAME!! WHAT A GAME! Not many districts have a 4OT final that scores in the 80s.

[jetpilot]

Players are kids, fans and coaches are adults. They are held to different standards. Criticize those who can vote and buy a beer, not those learning to drive.

Would it have changed some folks minds if the player had charged at another player, would it not be this sort of consequence and controversy? Would it have been okay then?

I think what this and a scorers table robbery is taking away from is the GAME!! WHAT A GAME! Not many districts have a 4OT final that scores in the 80s.

No. Don't charge at anyone in a sporting event. It makes you look like an idiot. This is 101.

[jetpilot]

Players are kids, fans and coaches are adults. They are held to different standards. Criticize those who can vote and buy a beer, not those learning to drive.

Would it have changed some folks minds if the player had charged at another player, would it not be this sort of consequence and controversy? Would it have been okay then?

I think what this and a scorers table robbery is taking away from is the GAME!! WHAT A GAME! Not many districts have a 4OT final that scores in the 80s.

That's the very ones you are trying to teach to know better. Making excuses for them makes them that way for life. Way too many excuses for unacceptable behavior on this thread times 1,000.

[jetpilot]

Players are kids, fans and coaches are adults. They are held to different standards. Criticize those who can vote and buy a beer, not those learning to drive.

Would it have changed some folks minds if the player had charged at another player, would it not be this sort of consequence and controversy? Would it have been okay then?

I think what this and a scorers table robbery is taking away from is the GAME!! WHAT A GAME! Not many districts have a 4OT final that scores in the 80s.

No. Don't charge at anyone in a sporting event. It makes you look like an idiot. This is 101.

Plus you could cause a riot and get a lot of innocent people hurt.

[pirateforlife]

Has anyone figured out yet when Allen picked up his 5 fouls in the official book? Should be a time and quarter documented when all 5 fouls were recorded and if both books at halftime had the same number of fouls on him then it had to be at sometime during the 2nd half.

[Red and Black]

Players are kids, fans and coaches are adults. They are held to different standards. Criticize those who can vote and buy a beer, not those learning to drive.

Would it have changed some folks minds if the player had charged at another player, would it not be this sort of consequence and controversy? Would it have been okay then?

I think what this and a scorers table robbery is taking away from is the GAME!! WHAT A GAME! Not many districts have a 4OT final that scores in the 80s.

No. Don't charge at anyone in a sporting event. It makes you look like an idiot. This is 101.

Plus you could cause a riot and get a lot of innocent people hurt.

It has not gone unnoticed that you have been mum about the event that actually almost led to a riot- the fact that every single BL player and cheerleader and half of their student section charged straight at the Prestonsburg student section immediately after the game where they commenced to cussing, flipping off, and even spitting on our students, parents, fans and cheerleaders. If there was going to be a riot then that was the time for it to happen, but Prestonsburg actually has administrators who protect our kids from things like that. The principal, vice principal and head football coach were all standing next to the student section at the end of the game and did an absolutely extraordinary job at deescalating that very high intensity situation whereas the BL administration had absolutely no control over their students, which, sadly, is par for the course for them. Howard just watched them all go over to our student section and stood around the score table hugging people. No clue where the BL principal and vice principal were. I did see an assistant football coach from BL try to move them back after they had got over to us, and good for him, but it wasn’t enough. As soon as Hall hit that 3 with 5 seconds left the administrators of the school should have went to their student section and prevented them from rushing the floor, just like ours were prepared to do.

Please spare us the riot prevention talk until you address this administrative failure.

[Quincy]

Players are kids, fans and coaches are adults. They are held to different standards. Criticize those who can vote and buy a beer, not those learning to drive.

Would it have changed some folks minds if the player had charged at another player, would it not be this sort of consequence and controversy? Would it have been okay then?

I think what this and a scorers table robbery is taking away from is the GAME!! WHAT A GAME! Not many districts have a 4OT final that scores in the 80s.

Yes they should be held to different standards, but as a kid when you step on that basketball court you get held to the highest of standards. You have the privilege to play the game of basketball and you also have the responsibility to not do silly stuff like charge a coach.

[jetpilot]

Players are kids, fans and coaches are adults. They are held to different standards. Criticize those who can vote and buy a beer, not those learning to drive.

Would it have changed some folks minds if the player had charged at another player, would it not be this sort of consequence and controversy? Would it have been okay then?

I think what this and a scorers table robbery is taking away from is the GAME!! WHAT A GAME! Not many districts have a 4OT final that scores in the 80s.

No. Don't charge at anyone in a sporting event. It makes you look like an idiot. This is 101.

Plus you could cause a riot and get a lot of innocent people hurt.

It has not gone unnoticed that you have been mum about the event that actually almost led to a riot- the fact that every single BL player and cheerleader and half of their student section charged straight at the Prestonsburg student section immediately after the game where they commenced to cussing, flipping off, and even spitting on our students, parents, fans and cheerleaders. If there was going to be a riot then that was the time for it to happen, but Prestonsburg actually has administrators who protect our kids from things like that. The principal, vice principal and head football coach were all standing next to the student section at the end of the game and did an absolutely extraordinary job at deescalating that very high intensity situation whereas the BL administration had absolutely no control over their students, which, sadly, is par for the course for them. Howard just watched them all go over to our student section and stood around the score table hugging people. No clue where the BL principal and vice principal were. I did see an assistant football coach from BL try to move them back after they had got over to us, and good for him, but it wasn’t enough. As soon as Hall hit that 3 with 5 seconds left the administrators of the school should have went to their student section and prevented them from rushing the floor, just like ours were prepared to do.

Please spare us the riot prevention talk until you address this administrative failure.

You have a point, I didn't see that. But I did say there was enough blame to go around. I do blame BL admin, they were the hosts and it was their job to keep the peace. They did finally get it right in the end and nobody got hurt. This has about worn off for me and now I'll just remember it as a great basketball game. Good luck to both teams in the 15th.

[4 Quarters]

Players are kids, fans and coaches are adults. They are held to different standards. Criticize those who can vote and buy a beer, not those learning to drive.

Would it have changed some folks minds if the player had charged at another player, would it not be this sort of consequence and controversy? Would it have been okay then?

I think what this and a scorers table robbery is taking away from is the GAME!! WHAT A GAME! Not many districts have a 4OT final that scores in the 80s.

So, you're saying it's ok for a student in a classroom to attack the teacher?

[Beetlejuice]

Two horrible teams

[BCF4L]

Two horrible teams

Awesome commentary. I’m sure you’re a horrible person.

[jetpilot]

Actually two teams that could end your season.

[pirateforlife]

I don't know one kid on Pburg roster personally but I am cheering for them in the postseason after how that game ended. I like Keathley cause his work ethic is unmatched and players like that deserve success. Hope the seniors for Pburg can end their season on a high note but playing Paintsville in the play in is a tough matchup

[HatfieldMccoy]

Two horrible teams

Awesome commentary. I’m sure you’re a horrible person.

He’s a Breathitt fan.  Enough said

[Blue_Bird96]

Betsy Layne is not 100% to blame for this.  Toward the end of the game, Prestonsburg made a very hard foul on a Betsy Layne player.  At that time, the WPRG announcers made the comment that it was going to be a very interesting trophy presentation after the game.  After the game, when things had cooled off some, it was a Pburg fan that yelled at the Betsy Layne coach that escalated things again.  When the coach responded, it was a Pburg player who tried to physically attack him. Pburg has some blame in what happened as well.  It isn't 100% on Betsy Layne.

Truth is Betsy Layne has been 100% to blame in MANY of the incidents that happen in their games. Multiple sports. Clearly is never going to get corrected even though it’s in desperate need!

[BCF4L]

Betsy Layne is not 100% to blame for this.  Toward the end of the game, Prestonsburg made a very hard foul on a Betsy Layne player.  At that time, the WPRG announcers made the comment that it was going to be a very interesting trophy presentation after the game.  After the game, when things had cooled off some, it was a Pburg fan that yelled at the Betsy Layne coach that escalated things again.  When the coach responded, it was a Pburg player who tried to physically attack him. Pburg has some blame in what happened as well.  It isn't 100% on Betsy Layne.

Truth is Betsy Layne has been 100% to blame in MANY of the incidents that happen in their games. Multiple sports. Clearly is never going to get corrected even though it’s in desperate need!

Considering the new Superintendent helped BL cheat with test scores and was voted in by Jr. Newsome of the board, you act like a little misbehavior at ball games is surprising. They’re applauded for every horrible thing they do.

[Blue_Bird96]

This was one of if not the best game of the year. Both teams hard fought and played great. Also loves the sportsmanship from both teams throughout the game. However i think it is completely immature for a parent to yell at the opposing teams coach in the middle of the prayer circle. Whether you agree or disagree at what is going on there are better ways to handle it. As for Keathley rushing the coach it is completely classless. For someone who wants to play d1 basketball he has a bad attitude.

If someone used a microphone to publicly disrespect your mother, how would you handle it? I don’t necessarily agree with Keithley’s decision to rush him, but I don’t disagree either. I understand it and I deeply respect it. I think it shows a deep sense of his character, honestly. Call me old school, but no man should allow someone to disrespect their mother. I don’t care who you are. I 100% would have done the exact same thing as a 16 year old. Shoot, I can’t promise that I wouldn’t do the exact same thing right now as a 40 year old! Also, you should not compare a parent speaking without a microphone after a high emotion game to a coach speaking with a microphone after the same game. Coaches should be held to higher standards than fans and parents. As representatives of their schools and communities they should model better behavior for their players than using a microphone to tell opposing fans to shut up. How many younger kids in attendance saw the bookkeeper flip Keithley off? How many heard Howard tell a Pburg parent to shut up over the PA? Are we ok with that for our kids? IMO, Howard failed the coaching standards test in multiple ways on multiple levels last night. If he had any honor he would be totally ashamed of using his public platform as a role model to his players and his community in that way, especially right before leading them in a public prayer! Not only did he make Betsy Layne look bad he also made all other disciples of Jesus look bad in that moment, and honestly I don’t know which is worse.

No other coaches or school officials in the 15th act like Betsy Layne’s do. Their coaches and officials model bad behavior and the kids don’t know any better than to emulate it. I don’t blame the kids, they are kids. I blame the administrators who continue to hire and allow their coaches to model bad behavior in front of their kids even after it’s been brought to their attention time after time after time after time just so they can have a better chance to win ball games. It’s shameful how they are teaching and impacting those kids. Some of the best people I know live in Betsy Layne, some of my best friends, but if this problem is going to be corrected then they’re going to have to be the ones that stand up to the administration and say enough is enough. Because crap like this keeps happening again and again and again.

Yes, they are district champs and they should be very proud of that. Congratulations to those kids. Those kids played a heck of a game and they deserved to win, but people in Betsy Layne need to look themselves in the mirror this week and ask themselves if winning is really more important than honor and decency? Is it more important than getting people involved with the program who will teach these kids the right way to act moving forward?Because that’s the shape that at least two of their athletic programs are in right now, and everybody in the mountains knows it.

If your mother is screaming insults at people on the floor (who are trying to pray no less) from the stands she is going to get plenty of disrespect. No sympathy for her. No excuse for charging at the coach either, under any circumstances. I watched the game and there is plenty of blame to go around. The "this is all BL's fault" narrative doesn't fly. Again, I have zero problem whatsoever with someone yelling back at someone in the stands screaming insults at them.

Was about to say the same thing. If you can’t take it don’t dish it. Nothing personally against any of the BL coaches or the parent or player who were involved but in all fairness the parent wanted to say something first in a moment of respect then I think the betsy layne coach had every right to say something back. Just because he’s a coach doesn’t mean he’s not a human who isn’t gonna take any disrespect. And again I will defend my mother I’m almost every occasion but it isn’t my job to fight a grown adult for responding to her disrespectful actions.

---

And to address the book keeper situation, in no world ever should a grown adult flip off a high school kid. Completely classless by him. What a fool.

Big difference between a “Fan” and someone who is put into a leadership position such as a coach. See that’s the mentality at BL. There’s always an excuse but never any accountability. I have always liked Mike as person a ref a coach but he made a mistake and came dangerously close to causing a major incident. First off, no coach needs to take center court with a mic after a district championship game. The AD of the hosting school typically comes out and present trophies. Secondly you HAVE to be able to ignore comments from fans and stay professional. That’s anywhere. Barking back is a much worse look on the coach than it is the fan. Especially after the opposing fanbase is rightfully upset for seeing one of their seniors cheated. Why can other people admit wrong doing in their programs or the way their fanbases act except BL?

[Westside]

This was one of if not the best game of the year. Both teams hard fought and played great. Also loves the sportsmanship from both teams throughout the game. However i think it is completely immature for a parent to yell at the opposing teams coach in the middle of the prayer circle. Whether you agree or disagree at what is going on there are better ways to handle it. As for Keathley rushing the coach it is completely classless. For someone who wants to play d1 basketball he has a bad attitude.

If someone used a microphone to publicly disrespect your mother, how would you handle it? I don’t necessarily agree with Keithley’s decision to rush him, but I don’t disagree either. I understand it and I deeply respect it. I think it shows a deep sense of his character, honestly. Call me old school, but no man should allow someone to disrespect their mother. I don’t care who you are. I 100% would have done the exact same thing as a 16 year old. Shoot, I can’t promise that I wouldn’t do the exact same thing right now as a 40 year old! Also, you should not compare a parent speaking without a microphone after a high emotion game to a coach speaking with a microphone after the same game. Coaches should be held to higher standards than fans and parents. As representatives of their schools and communities they should model better behavior for their players than using a microphone to tell opposing fans to shut up. How many younger kids in attendance saw the bookkeeper flip Keithley off? How many heard Howard tell a Pburg parent to shut up over the PA? Are we ok with that for our kids? IMO, Howard failed the coaching standards test in multiple ways on multiple levels last night. If he had any honor he would be totally ashamed of using his public platform as a role model to his players and his community in that way, especially right before leading them in a public prayer! Not only did he make Betsy Layne look bad he also made all other disciples of Jesus look bad in that moment, and honestly I don’t know which is worse.

No other coaches or school officials in the 15th act like Betsy Layne’s do. Their coaches and officials model bad behavior and the kids don’t know any better than to emulate it. I don’t blame the kids, they are kids. I blame the administrators who continue to hire and allow their coaches to model bad behavior in front of their kids even after it’s been brought to their attention time after time after time after time just so they can have a better chance to win ball games. It’s shameful how they are teaching and impacting those kids. Some of the best people I know live in Betsy Layne, some of my best friends, but if this problem is going to be corrected then they’re going to have to be the ones that stand up to the administration and say enough is enough. Because crap like this keeps happening again and again and again.

Yes, they are district champs and they should be very proud of that. Congratulations to those kids. Those kids played a heck of a game and they deserved to win, but people in Betsy Layne need to look themselves in the mirror this week and ask themselves if winning is really more important than honor and decency? Is it more important than getting people involved with the program who will teach these kids the right way to act moving forward?Because that’s the shape that at least two of their athletic programs are in right now, and everybody in the mountains knows it.

If your mother is screaming insults at people on the floor (who are trying to pray no less) from the stands she is going to get plenty of disrespect. No sympathy for her. No excuse for charging at the coach either, under any circumstances. I watched the game and there is plenty of blame to go around. The "this is all BL's fault" narrative doesn't fly. Again, I have zero problem whatsoever with someone yelling back at someone in the stands screaming insults at them.

Was about to say the same thing. If you can’t take it don’t dish it. Nothing personally against any of the BL coaches or the parent or player who were involved but in all fairness the parent wanted to say something first in a moment of respect then I think the betsy layne coach had every right to say something back. Just because he’s a coach doesn’t mean he’s not a human who isn’t gonna take any disrespect. And again I will defend my mother I’m almost every occasion but it isn’t my job to fight a grown adult for responding to her disrespectful actions.

---

And to address the book keeper situation, in no world ever should a grown adult flip off a high school kid. Completely classless by him. What a fool.

Big difference between a “Fan” and someone who is put into a leadership position such as a coach. See that’s the mentality at BL. There’s always an excuse but never any accountability. I have always liked Mike as person a ref a coach but he made a mistake and came dangerously close to causing a major incident. First off, no coach needs to take center court with a mic after a district championship game. The AD of the hosting school typically comes out and present trophies. Secondly you HAVE to be able to ignore comments from fans and stay professional. That’s anywhere. Barking back is a much worse look on the coach than it is the fan. Especially after the opposing fanbase is rightfully upset for seeing one of their seniors cheated. Why can other people admit wrong doing in their programs or the way their fanbases act except BL?

I never stated there was no wrong doing on Betsy Layne's part.  Look at my other post and you will see that.

[100%SUCCESS]

Apologies and owning mistakes would go a long way.