[Cardfan1]

Hoot, I think you and I are comparing class top to bottom and these guys are thinking 1-5.

2014 1A vs 3A
Belfry vs mayfield
Central vs Williamsburg
Corbin vs. race land
South Warren vs Russellville
Bell county vs Murray

1A wins 1 maybe 2 of those.

[Hoot Gibson]

Hoot, I think you and I are comparing class top to bottom and these guys are thinking 1-5.

2014 1A vs 3A
Belfry vs mayfield
Central vs Williamsburg
Corbin vs. race land
South Warren vs Russellville
Bell county vs Murray

1A wins 1 maybe 2 of those.

I agree. The fewer teams that you consider in each class, the better chance that the lower classification has of appearing stronger than the larger class. My point is only that the smallest schools in 1A often struggle just to field a team because of the enrollment numbers. Schools in other classes may fall on hard times, but the pool of boys will always be sufficiently large to field a team, absent problems with the coaching staff, facilities, and/or community support.

IMO, if you are ranking classes, you cannot just just pretend that more than half the teams in the class don't exist.

[Fly Like a Duck]

Hoot, I think you and I are comparing class top to bottom and these guys are thinking 1-5.

2014 1A vs 3A
Belfry vs mayfield
Central vs Williamsburg
Corbin vs. race land
South Warren vs Russellville
Bell county vs Murray

1A wins 1 maybe 2 of those.

Hey Card

Nice match ups. SW and Rville actually have a good thing going (or did), but Murray High was still 2A. Could insert Beechwood, though.

I'm with you. I'll give 1A one of those games and two would be a stretch.

[Pulp Fiction]

I've seen several posts about JC beating Belfry 35-0 last season....

Several of Belfry's starters were out for that game. Would JC still have won, being the biggest JC homer on this board, I say YES! But it would be crazy to say that Belfry wouldn't have at least been in the game if they had all of their players. Beating an out-of-class team over winning a state title is a no-brainer. Rest your players and win the state title.

The 2015 season is probably JC's best chance to win their first state title. But if they don't, it doesn't mean the season was a failure and "the house needs to be cleaned."

4A isn't a strong as years past.... loosing Highlands, Cov. Cath., Lex. Cath. and Boyle County would hurt any Classes strength. But the last time I checked, there are no disclaimers on championship rings.

[Hoot Gibson]

I've seen several posts about JC beating Belfry 35-0 last season....

Several of Belfry's starters were out for that game. Would JC still have won, being the biggest JC homer on this board, I say YES! But it would be crazy to say that Belfry wouldn't have at least been in the game if they had all of their players. Beating an out-of-class team over winning a state title is a no-brainer. Rest your players and win the state title.

The 2015 season is probably JC's best chance to win their first state title. But if they don't, it doesn't mean the season was a failure and "the house needs to be cleaned."

4A isn't a strong as years past.... loosing Highlands, Cov. Cath., Lex. Cath. and Boyle County would hurt any Classes strength. But the last time I checked, there are no disclaimers on championship rings.

Pulp, I think that this season would have been JC's best shot at a state title even if Highlands and Covington Catholic had not moved to 5A. I don't think that either Highlands or CovCath will be as good this season as they were last season and JC should be much better with most of its starters returning with another year's experience. JC's regular season games against Lexington Catholic and Belfry will give us a pretty good idea how the Golden Eagles would have fared had LexCath and Boyle not moved down to 3A.

If Johnson Central wins the 4A title this season, no asterisk will be needed. The Highlands fans (a minority) who think that the 'Birds would have automatically won another 4A title this season should focus on 5A. Highlands is no shoo-in to win a title this season, and had the school not elected to move up a class, they would not have been a shoo-in to win a 4A title either. I have never been a believer that last season's champion is #1 until somebody beats them. Good coaches certainly don't buy into that hogwash - if they did, repeat titles would be rare.

[Cardfan1]

Hey Card

Nice match ups. SW and Rville actually have a good thing going (or did), but Murray High was still 2A. Could insert Beechwood, though.

I'm with you. I'll give 1A one of those games and two would be a stretch.

Oops. That's right I struggled to come with that last matchup.

[EKUAlum05]

Class 1A has never not been the weakest class and it never will be. The range of enrollment numbers between the largest 1A schools and the schools with the smallest enrollments has a far greater impact than for any other class. That ensures that the weakest teams in 1A will always be far, far weaker than the weakest teams in 2A or above. There is a point where a school's enrollment numbers are just not capable of producing a competitive football team and all of the schools that suffer that problem play in 1A.

Take Paintsville, for example. Paintsville will be a legitimate Top 10, and maybe even a legitimate Top 5 team this fall. Match Paintsville against the top team in any other class, and it is likely that the Tigers would lose by 40+ and the top team in 1A will be very heavily favored if they play Paintsville.

Paintsville has a great football tradition and the school has produced some outstanding college football players. Obviously, during most of the program's history, the Tigers have been well coached and blessed with some great individual talent. What the program has lacked is the depth that the top team in 1A has, and lack of depth is the direct result of small enrollment numbers.

Consider Fairview. The team has benefited greatly from transfers in recent years, but it would be very hard for a very small school to recruit enough talent to seriously compete for a state title. It is much easier for very small schools to compete in other sports than in football.

With respect... 2013 was a banner year for 1A.

Mayfield- Defeated Top 5 3A Tilghman, Defeated Top 3 5A Runner-Up Graves County, defeated Top 7 2A Semi-Finalist Murray, Defeated Top 5 2A Caldwell County

Beechwood- Defeated Top 3 4A CovCath, Defeated 2A Runner-Up NewCath (Who you know very well since they beat JC)

Williamsburg- Defeated Top 12 2A Newport

Pikeville- Defeated 3A State Champion Belfry, defeated Top 10 3A Semi-Finalist Russell, Defeated Top 10 2A Pburg

Raceland- Defeated Top 10 3A Lawrence County

Paintsville- Defeated 2A Top 10 LCA, Defeated 2A Top 7 Semi-Finalist Shelby Valley

Russellville- Lost to 4A Top 7 Franklin-Simpson by 1



Combined:
Beat 3A State Champs
Beat the 2A and 5A Runner-Up
Defeated 6 Different Higher Class Teams who reached the Semi-Finals
Defeated Mr. Football

I usually agree 1A is the weakest class and for good reason, but I have absolutely no issue saying they were not only they were not the weakest class last year, but they were even stronger than 3A.

[Hoot Gibson]

With respect... 2013 was a banner year for 1A.

Mayfield- Defeated Top 5 3A Tilghman, Defeated Top 3 5A Runner-Up Graves County, defeated Top 7 2A Semi-Finalist Murray, Defeated Top 5 2A Caldwell County

Beechwood- Defeated Top 3 4A CovCath, Defeated 2A Runner-Up NewCath (Who you know very well since they beat JC)

Williamsburg- Defeated Top 12 2A Newport

Pikeville- Defeated 3A State Champion Belfry, defeated Top 10 3A Semi-Finalist Russell, Defeated Top 10 2A Pburg

Raceland- Defeated Top 10 3A Lawrence County

Paintsville- Defeated 2A Top 10 LCA, Defeated 2A Top 7 Semi-Finalist Shelby Valley

Russellville- Lost to 4A Top 7 Franklin-Simpson by 1



Combined:
Beat 3A State Champs
Beat the 2A and 5A Runner-Up
Defeated 6 Different Higher Class Teams who reached the Semi-Finals
Defeated Mr. Football

I usually agree 1A is the weakest class and for good reason, but I have absolutely no issue saying they were not only they were not the weakest class last year, but they were even stronger than 3A.

Almost all of the weakest teams in Kentucky high school football are in 1A every season. Last season was no exception. The fact that a few 1A teams beat some good teams in higher classes is not unusual for the class. Mayfield and Beechwood do so on a regular basis. IMO, that does not elevate the entire class above any of the other classes.

Look at it this way, put the names of all of the teams in Kentucky into a hat. Draw two names from the hat, and repeat until no names are left. Now, ask yourself which team would win each match-up and write down the class of the winner. Do you really believe that the 1A teams would be favored more often in random match-ups than 2A or any other higher class? It is possible if you match-the teams up once or twice, but if you repeat the process long enough, 1A will rank dead last because of the weakness of the teams in the bottom half of the class.

[goBIGblue82]

Class 1A has never not been the weakest class and it never will be. The range of enrollment numbers between the largest 1A schools and the schools with the smallest enrollments has a far greater impact than for any other class. That ensures that the weakest teams in 1A will always be far, far weaker than the weakest teams in 2A or above. There is a point where a school's enrollment numbers are just not capable of producing a competitive football team and all of the schools that suffer that problem play in 1A.

Take Paintsville, for example. Paintsville will be a legitimate Top 10, and maybe even a legitimate Top 5 team this fall. Match Paintsville against the top team in any other class, and it is likely that the Tigers would lose by 40+ and the top team in 1A will be very heavily favored if they play Paintsville.

Paintsville has a great football tradition and the school has produced some outstanding college football players. Obviously, during most of the program's history, the Tigers have been well coached and blessed with some great individual talent. What the program has lacked is the depth that the top team in 1A has, and lack of depth is the direct result of small enrollment numbers.

Consider Fairview. The team has benefited greatly from transfers in recent years, but it would be very hard for a very small school to recruit enough talent to seriously compete for a state title. It is much easier for very small schools to compete in other sports than in football.

Let me make sure that I'm understanding you correctly. You are saying the bottom of each class could not compete with the bottom of classes above it, correct? I tell you what I will give you a chance to do some actual research and see if your opinion changes. If you choose to stick to those comments I will post historical statistics showing otherwise. Sometimes it's better to have some data to back up statements if you're using words like never and always.

[Hoot Gibson]

Let me make sure that I'm understanding you correctly. You are saying the bottom of each class could not compete with the bottom of classes above it, correct? I tell you what I will give you a chance to do some actual research and see if your opinion changes. If you choose to stick to those comments I will post historical statistics showing otherwise. Sometimes it's better to have some data to back up statements if you're using words like never and always.

I will tell you what, I will wait on you to make your case, based on "historical statistics." Cherry-picking a few results, as others have done in this thread proves nothing about the overall strength of a class. Does that mean that the #25 team in one class will never beat the #25 team in the class above it? Of course not. But, provided a sample size of games is sufficiently large to be statistically valid, a strong correlation exists between the pool of available talent in schools and the quality of their football teams.

There is a good reason that football teams are broken into classes and that reason is enrollment. A great coach of a 1A team will always be at a competitive disadvantage when pitted against an equally great coach drawing from a larger pool of boys. It is just common sense and statistics supports my position. If enrollment didn't matter, then teams could just be placed into any class at random.

Mayfield is a great example of team that has a great coaching staff combined with a large enrollment when it was in 1A. Split the school into two schools and keep the same staff, and Mayfield would find it extremely difficult to compete for state titles, but the school would still be larger than four other 1A schools.

Mayfield will be a leading contender for the 2A state title because of quality coaching and the fact the participation rate in football is high. However, Mayfield could not consistently compete for state titles in 6A no matter how well coached the team was.

Now, prove me wrong with your historical statistics.

[hornaplenty]

Hazard...2011

[Cardfan1]

Hazard...2011

Are you saying they would beat 6A Trinity ? The national champion team ?:dudecomeon:

[goBIGblue82]

I will tell you what, I will wait on you to make your case, based on "historical statistics." Cherry-picking a few results, as others have done in this thread proves nothing about the overall strength of a class. Does that mean that the #25 team in one class will never beat the #25 team in the class above it? Of course not. But, provided a sample size of games is sufficiently large to be statistically valid, a strong correlation exists between the pool of available talent in schools and the quality of their football teams.

There is a good reason that football teams are broken into classes and that reason is enrollment. A great coach of a 1A team will always be at a competitive disadvantage when pitted against an equally great coach drawing from a larger pool of boys. It is just common sense and statistics supports my position. If enrollment didn't matter, then teams could just be placed into any class at random.

Mayfield is a great example of team that has a great coaching staff combined with a large enrollment when it was in 1A. Split the school into two schools and keep the same staff, and Mayfield would find it extremely difficult to compete for state titles, but the school would still be larger than four other 1A schools.

Mayfield will be a leading contender for the 2A state title because of quality coaching and the fact the participation rate in football is high. However, Mayfield could not consistently compete for state titles in 6A no matter how well coached the team was.

Now, prove me wrong with your historical statistics.

I'm more than happy to share statistics. I'm out of town for my anniversary right now but I will post as soon as I get back.

[andy griffith]

Never thought we would see 5a be as weak as it was in 2014. Neither of the finalist was a great team, and 3a was weak, but it usually is so id have to say those was the bottom 2 classes last year.

[andy griffith]

Hoot, I think you and I are comparing class top to bottom and these guys are thinking 1-5.

2014 1A vs 3A
Belfry vs mayfield
Central vs Williamsburg
Corbin vs. race land
South Warren vs Russellville
Bell county vs Murray

1A wins 1 maybe 2 of those.

Its sad when you are having to try to compare 1a, and 3a. It shouldn't even be a question of who would win those 5 matchups cause the best 1a teams should not hang with the best 3a, but in this case its the opposite Belfry the best in 3a loses 4 of the teams listed on the right side. Then throw in beechwood, Pikeville, and Frankfort, Add Desales, and CAL in there for 2a, and that's 9 teams in 1, and 2a that can beat the best in 3a.