[phs1986]

I have deleted, edited, removed, and issued warnings concerning posts in this thread. Either go back, re-read the rules of the site or expect to have your post deleted or an infraction issued if this keeps up. Please, follow the rules and keep it on a civil level please!!!

[Pirate Pal]

I have been a KAPOS judge for many years and, as such, I feel that there people on here that have no idea what they are talking about in refering judging rules. There are several points that are being missed by posters about the DQ situation:

1. I did see Belfry perform their entire routine during Tech showing the mounts twice to the tech judges. At that point, the tech judges signed off on Belfry's tech sheet that everything was legal. This was incompentency on the tech judges part and they should be held accountable for their failure to comply with their duties, that they are trained for and get paid to do at competitions.

2. Not every sponsor attends KAPOS judging clinics or are KAPOS judges, so they do expect the tech judges to do their jobs and catch anything that may be illegal so that they can change it before they get on the floor. Mrs. Casey has been a judge for many years, but due to unforseen circumstances, did not get to attend the clinic this year. As every judge knows, there a rule changes every year and the judges rule book is very hard to read and interpret. You actually watch videos that demonstrate rule changes at the clinics to just to make the ruling clear. Maybe kapos needs to send their training video to each and every sponsor every year so that they can see a visual of the legal and illegal stunting rules.

3. I have always been told in every judging clinic that, as a judge, we get 1 chance and 1 chance only to see a routine. If 1 judge thinks that they may have seen something illegal and the other judges did not, that we, as judges, are to GIVE THE GIRLS THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT!!! I have NEVER judged a competition where 1 judge thinks they seen something and they ask for a personal video camera to be brought down to watch a replay of that routine!! If this is the case, then it should be only fair to rewatch each and every routine to see if they missed a deduction or anything illegal that any other squad may have performed.

4. I do believe that Belfry and JC should be named co-champions and each squad be able to compete at State. At some point Kapos must bear the burden of their faults and not be so worried about looking incompetent. If, at any time, the tech judges would have done the job they were there to do, Belfry would have changed their routine on the spot and still competed.

5. Just for the record, the tech judges did OK Belfry Middle School's routine during tech judging and was going to let them compete with an illegal stunt also. It was caught by judges sitting outside of the tech area and Belfry was informed of it right before they took the floor for judging.

I am proud to be a kapos judge and will continue to be, but I do believe that this entire situations lies solely on kapos' shoulders and they should do what is right for the kids.

And, yes, Belfry did have the majority of the fans there that night and it was a great thing to see everyone out there supporting the girls, including the 2 Southside squads from the Belfry area.

For those of you who might be thinking that this is Mrs. Casey, I can assure you that it is not. Everyone from Belfry knows who I am, I was a Belfry Cheerleader when I was in high school, I had a daughter who was a Belfry Varsity Cheerleader for 4 years, I have a daughter who is an 8th grader on Belfry Middle Varsity and I have a daughter who cheers on the Southside Wildcat squad.

Congratulations to all sqauds that competed. There was a tremendous amount of talent shown at the Expo Center.

[vball04]

At one point or another everyone feels like they have been cheated. I was at state last year and Hazard had an awesome routine no falls, very clean, and they didn't have people tumbling and sliding on signs, but yet they didn't place and Belfry did. Everyone in the crowd around me from every other school was saying how in the world did Belfry place 5th over Hazard. However, I didn't see Hazard on here threatening to never go to KAPOS again.

but there's a difference in feeling like you have been cheated, & actually being cheated!

[danceinky]

It doesn't seem fair that the students are the ones punished for the adults mistakes.

More than a few teams had to make changes after going through tech judging. Other teams had problems that were not caught in tech judging. This is a STRONG indicator that the rules are complicated and that many sponsors are not completely clear on their meaning.

Obviously, the technical judge was also unsure of the meaning, if she passed Belfry Middle, Belfry Varsity and Louisa Middle. The middle school luckily caught their own problem, but the other two were not so lucky.

Maybe KAPOS should change the rule: If an illegal stunt is misinterpretated to be okay by the sponsor, and is not caught by the technical judge, deduct points from the score. Maybe this would prevent the girls from being punished after all the hard work and expense.

If the adults are having trouble with the legality of their stunts, how are the kids suppose to know? Yet, they are the ones that have worked hard and have the most at stake. This is an lost opportunity that can never be given back to those girls!

[cheer1020]

It doesn't seem fair that the students are the ones punished for the adults mistakes.

More than a few teams had to make changes after going through tech judging. Other teams had problems that were not caught in tech judging. This is a STRONG indicator that the rules are complicated and that many sponsors are not completely clear on their meaning.

Obviously, the technical judge was also unsure of the meaning, if she passed Belfry Middle, Belfry Varsity and Louisa Middle. The middle school luckily caught their own problem, but the other two were not so lucky.

Maybe KAPOS should change the rule: If an illegal stunt is misinterpretated to be okay by the sponsor, and is not caught by the technical judge, deduct points from the score. Maybe this would prevent the girls from being punished after all the hard work and expense.

If the adults are having trouble with the legality of their stunts, how are the kids suppose to know? Yet, they are the ones that have worked hard and have the most at stake. This is an lost opportunity that can never be given back to those girls!

GREAT post!!! Guess im not the only one who finds the handbook hard to understand!

Also, Louisa middle had 3 fulls! I don't think i saw a high school with that many!

[kyr450]

It is my understanding that State KAPOS comp will be postponed until the Belfry problem is solved in court...

[Pond creek nation]

this video will show you how great our girls were...
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caXBrHYswnQ"]YouTube- Belfry Varsity Cheerleaders - 15th Region Large Division Champions!![/ame]

[luv2cheer]

I wish someone from KAPOS would just call Belfry and tell them they can go to state. One more team won't make that big of a difference. Besides haven't you seen the video?

[akaLCallTHEway]

dude,you are missin' the point, the reason people from belfry is so ticked off is becasue, they always try to screw us over!! including the KAPOS judges..im assuming you were there, so i KNOW you saw all the belfry fans..did tht make you jealous too. is that why you are on here tryin to put down belfry?? LOL :thatsfunnirateSho

So now everyone is picking on Belfry?:please: hh:

Come on get this junk out of here, BGR isnt the place for this.:dontthink

Take this somewheres else, maybe channel 3 news or the papers.

I wasnt there and no it did not make me jealous. When belfry can beat LC in something like baseball, basketball, come talk.
Its cheering, 85% of the fans there might have been from belfry even though the EXPO is so close to belfry, just because belfry had alot of fans there doesnt mean they should have won.:Thumbs:

[sneakysnake]

i have seen the video, in fact i was at KAPOS. Yes belfrey stuck MOST of their stuff, but had a fall in their pyramid. But if you knew anything at all about cheerleading you would realize that they had no degree of difficulty at all compared to JC. I'm sure it is easy to stick your routine when you're doing halfs and fulls, considering elementary teams can do that. No, JC's routine was not perfect and they know that, but they WILL be going to state and will be amazing.

[phs1986]

FINAL warning!!!! I will close this one down rather than have to sit for 45 minutes editing and deleting around 50% of the posts. Also, one more tidbit, if you have a problem with myself or any other administrator/staff member, please contact them via PM. DO NOT post it in open forum.

[gccheer1]

Belfry Middle was awesome and they deserved 1st place.. we all know it.. I'm sure that a hairbow falling out on the other squad wasn't the reason that they lost. Also as far as Belfry High School goes I am a varsity cheerleader and our coach has been coaching for over 20 years. She has also been a kapos judge herself. Im sure that she knows the rules! She is always looking in her rule book and making sure everything is okay. She even changed our JV's routine and hair before competition because it was illegal.. They had glitter in their hair in case anybody is wondering how hair can be illegal. Anyways the point is you can't blame it on our coach or our girls.. It was a suspended split that we got dq'd for. The rules say you have to have constant contact.. (which we did) watch the video. The flyers had ahold of the girls in the halves and the bases were continuously under the climbers. They said if they wouldve let go of the halves and put the hands on the bases shoulders that it wouldve been fine. Tell me how that can missed in warm-ups... (and we did do it in warm-ups) I was there i know... We have put in so many hours on this routine. We worked our butts off this year harder than we ever have and we also have the heart along with the talent this year.. You can't expect us to sit there and watch JC take OUR trophy without the least bit of reaction. It was the tech's responsibility to catch it. They caught our middle school squad and our jv squad b4 they went onto the floor. We put our trust into them and they Dq'd us for all our hard work. We were even willing to change the mount and do the routine over again. We earned our 1st place and dont be suprised if you don't see us better than ever at state* =) see ya there irateSho gooooooooooooo BELFRY

If three teams from the same school district had illegal stunts...then I think they should look within the coaching staff. How can all three teams have illegal stunts. I am sorry but that if that isn't the coach's responsibility, what is?

[gccheer1]

It is my understanding that State KAPOS comp will be postponed until the Belfry problem is solved in court...

that is absolutely ridiculous and the only people being hurt by the stupidity is the kids. Remember them? The people who are supposed to be most important?

[gccheer1]

People are human. Judges are human. Cheerleading
is a subjective sport. No one cheats and none of the judges
intentionally screwed Belfry. Grow up people.

[Pirate Pal]

If three teams from the same school district had illegal stunts...then I think they should look within the coaching staff. How can all three teams have illegal stunts. I am sorry but that if that isn't the coach's responsibility, what is?

Belfry and Louisa aren't in the same district. Once again, evidently you have never try to read the KAPOS rules book and interpret them in any way, shape, or form. Not only that, all squads must adhere to the National Federation of High School Cheerleading guidelines which makes it twice as hard. If you would like, you can go to go KAPOS.org and download the rule book and I will be happy to ask you some questions on what you interpret to be legal or illegal.

[Bubbles]

dude,you are missin' the point, the reason people from belfry is so ticked off is becasue, they always try to screw us over!! including the KAPOS judges..im assuming you were there, so i KNOW you saw all the belfry fans..did tht make you jealous too. is that why you are on here tryin to put down belfry?? LOL :thatsfunnirateSho

Just one comment about the huge crowd that Belfry had. Yes, they had a huge crowd which would help any teams confidence. However, allowing some of them in before the front doors even open to save their seats is also
unfair. If you want to speak about unfair.
Which is what this whole thread is about. How unfair the judges were about the DQ. I know this is a fact because my daughter called to ask where we were and we stated, "Standing in Line." Her comment was,"There are Belfry fans already in their seats with their area marked off." Then they wonder why people don't like them. The unfair card only works when they want it to work. They don't want people to know about things they do that is unfair. It is always about what people do to THEM! If people have not learned by now that nothing in life is fair, seats, dqs, or whatever, but things happen and this should make us all better people. Let's all learn from our mistakes and try to do better the next time with all things in life not just cheerleading.

[Lisa Douglas]

I have read and read on this thread... and one glaring point keeps resounding in my thoughts.... Everyone begins (more or less) working on their material for competition almost as soon as "try-outs" are completed. Most good coaches will begin breaking down stunts/pyramids/transitions/dance sequences etc. & placing them in others things as the season progresses... the crowd may not realize this, but many squads will polish and work on special things all year long... in reg practices, special practices and sometimes even travel to get special instruction or have someone come to assist @ a called practice... they will polish further @ pep assemblies, games, and perhaps other events leading up to a big comp. I know of many coaches inviting tech judges to view their routines prior to competiton, like months before a comp, in order to make the necessary changes (if warranted) with plenty of time so their cheerleaders wouldn't be "rattled" by an "emergency last minute revision" thrown @ them in a "warmup area". I have also known several coaches to forward videos of stunts or pyramids to certified KAPOS ppl to get a 'ruling' or whatever to allow them to proceed with their routine w/o worry. I also do understand there are loads of rules in the KAPOS handbook & NFHS handbook,(this would seem overwhelming to someone just entering cheer, who never cheered or never competed. This might alsobe a great time for school administrators to consider hiring coaches with better than a cheer mommy mentality to be their coaches or insisting their coaches be trained and well versed in the sport of cheer leading, thus the avoidance of "never being successful" or always having to "address dissatisfied parents" or dealing with various "rules infractions" and ppl yelling for "litigation") but considering all the hard work and time and money poured into this sport, it would seem paramount to a coach/school system to be not only "well versed" in all rules and regs, but to be almost OCD in their efforts to make sure they had crossed all "T's" and dotted all "I's", since it is their kids, who are really depending upon them. There are clinics all over the Commonwealth thru-out the Fall (beginning late Summer) to attend. Beginning next year, ALL coaches will have to attend as per the KHSAA's word on this THANK GOODNESS. For a coach to be Depending upon KAPOS warmup area tech judges to be looking for mistakes for goodness sakes IS NOT THE TIME OR PLACE. Building a solid routine that complies with the parameters of good safety practices as sanctioned by two different governing groups is something that is done way before 30 minutes prior to "addressing the mat". In my most humble opinion, it is the sole place of the coach to be responsible to do everything prior to competition to have his/her team ready for each individual competition based upon the parameters of each competition and the governing bodies (rules and regs) for said competitions. I know everyone involved in this situation and while unfortunate & heartbreaking I know of no one wishing to be put thru this intentionally. I know that everyone involved is primarily working to always find ways to make things better and safer. I know of no "vast right winged conspiracies" against any "cheer squad"... to the point of even bringing in judges from the other end of the Commonwealth to assure impartial treatment. I do know that venting on BGR is not the place for alot of what has made it onto this board... it's time to pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and move forward. Join the group if necessary pay your dues, get the books, study, attend the clinic and get involved... be the change. It's easy to say what 'you'd do' in a situation, but until it's your fanny on the line..... that and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee. Congratulations to all cheerleaders this season..whether you have competed, cheered games, or both... your time, efforts, and heart are commended and appreciated!

[Bubbles]

I have read and read on this thread... and one glaring point keeps resounding in my thoughts.... Everyone begins (more or less) working on their material for competition almost as soon as "try-outs" are completed. Most good coaches will begin breaking down stunts/pyramids/transitions/dance sequences etc. & placing them in others things as the season progresses... the crowd may not realize this, but many squads will polish and work on special things all year long... in reg practices, special practices and sometimes even travel to get special instruction or have someone come to assist @ a called practice... they will polish further @ pep assemblies, games, and perhaps other events leading up to a big comp. I know of many coaches inviting tech judges to view their routines prior to competiton, like months before a comp, in order to make the necessary changes (if warranted) with plenty of time so their cheerleaders wouldn't be "rattled" by an "emergency last minute revision" thrown @ them in a "warmup area". I have also known several coaches to forward videos of stunts or pyramids to certified KAPOS ppl to get a 'ruling' or whatever to allow them to proceed with their routine w/o worry. I also do understand there are loads of rules in the KAPOS handbook & NFHS handbook,(this would seem overwhelming to someone just entering cheer, who never cheered or never competed. This might alsobe a great time for school administrators to consider hiring coaches with better than a cheer mommy mentality to be their coaches or insisting their coaches be trained and well versed in the sport of cheer leading, thus the avoidance of "never being successful" or always having to "address dissatisfied parents" or dealing with various "rules infractions" and ppl yelling for "litigation") but considering all the hard work and time and money poured into this sport, it would seem paramount to a coach/school system to be not only "well versed" in all rules and regs, but to be almost OCD in their efforts to make sure they had crossed all "T's" and dotted all "I's", since it is their kids, who are really depending upon them. There are clinics all over the Commonwealth thru-out the Fall (beginning late Summer) to attend. Beginning next year, ALL coaches will have to attend as per the KHSAA's word on this THANK GOODNESS. For a coach to be Depending upon KAPOS warmup area tech judges to be looking for mistakes for goodness sakes IS NOT THE TIME OR PLACE. Building a solid routine that complies with the parameters of good safety practices as sanctioned by two different governing groups is something that is done way before 30 minutes prior to "addressing the mat". In my most humble opinion, it is the sole place of the coach to be responsible to do everything prior to competition to have his/her team ready for each individual competition based upon the parameters of each competition and the governing bodies (rules and regs) for said competitions. I know everyone involved in this situation and while unfortunate & heartbreaking I know of no one wishing to be put thru this intentionally. I know that everyone involved is primarily working to always find ways to make things better and safer. I know of no "vast right winged conspiracies" against any "cheer squad"... to the point of even bringing in judges from the other end of the Commonwealth to assure impartial treatment. I do know that venting on BGR is not the place for alot of what has made it onto this board... it's time to pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and move forward. Join the group if necessary pay your dues, get the books, study, attend the clinic and get involved... be the change. It's easy to say what 'you'd do' in a situation, but until it's your fanny on the line..... that and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee. Congratulations to all cheerleaders this season..whether you have competed, cheered games, or both... your time, efforts, and heart are commended and appreciated!

Very well stated!

[danceinky]

For a coach to be Depending upon KAPOS warmup area tech judges to be looking for mistakes for goodness sakes IS NOT THE TIME OR PLACE.

QUOTE]



If all of the responsibility lies on the coach, what is the role of the technical judge? They cannot accurately assess technical points for stunts if they do not recognize what is illegal.

Every year at these events, teams make changes after going through the tech judges. It is different schools every year. (Correct me if I am wrong but I think it has been a while since Belfry has had a problem before this year). I know that this happens in every single region in the state.

Schools that have issues that are caught by the tech judge get another opportunity. Schools the do not, are not given that opportunity.

If the entire responsibility is going to be on the coach, then the technical judge really has no purpose. They should not exist. That way, no team gets a second chance if they perform an illegal stunt.

KAPOS really MUST make some changes. This way all teams, and girls, are treated in the same manner . Then, and only then, can you say that the entire responsibility rest upon the sponsor.

[Lisa Douglas]

Safety. Rules and Regulations are there for the safety of all participants. Books of rules are printed for study and reference, pictures/illustrations are added for safety, and clinics are held for further instructions and testing.

One last note before I close the book on this one, No one in their right mind would intentionally hurt any of the participants of any school and expose themselves to such ridicule and indignity as has been waged upon KAPOS. Amazing.

[ckns]

okay im a cheerleader for the 14th region i mean crap its a cheerleading competition you all, i know these girls worked hard but it is the coaches fault for not reading the rules, and personally i didnt see one thing in that video that should've disquilified them.

congrats anyways girls, everyone did there best.

[cheer1020]

I think people are taking the "roles" wrong. I don't think a coach would put something possibly illegal in a routine and then just wait for the tech judges to clear it. Why would a coach want to have to make changes in a routine 5 minutes before it is performed?

I believe coaches should know the rules, but sometimes they are unaware of changes or clarification. In this case the tech judges should do their part and inform teams of illegal stunts.

[tigerscheer08]

This thread is titled 15th Region Kapos results, it's not all about Belfry getting disqualified!
Even though Belfry would have won!

I am a Paintsville cheerleader if you want to know!

I was mostly impressed with Pike Centrals blue squad!
I thought they were so much better than Pikeville (white), IMO!
They should have won 1st place, in the Superlarge division.
But,
Pike Centrals orange squad wasn't too impressive, and I thought they were suppose to be the better team?

[phs1986]

Exactly what part of the routine did the "judge" (notice I did not say judge(S)) judge to be reason for disqualification? After watching the video over and over and over... (Yes, several times, even slowed down) I can see nothing at all that would disqualify a squad. Be advised that I say SQAUD and not Belfry as this exact same thing could of happened to any squad out there. I have also been on the KAPOS website and have been reading the rules myself.... I saw nothing worth disqualification in the routine.... Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm right.... It DOES need to be looked into and fixed so that this does NOT happen to another squad...

On a side note, I know from personal experience, a coach will NOT put something into a routine that they have worked on for hours and hours just to have it changed 10 minutes before they hit the floor. WHY bust your and the girls butt's practicing just to have to switch things? Handbook in hand... practice, check, re-check, and OH... check one more time to just to make sure that NOTHING is illegal before you put it in. If you have a question about something, don't use it. Evidently things had been checked, re-checked, and checked again and then.... verified by the tech judge (who, BTW, gets paid to find the "no-no's" and explain to the coaches.... Maybe a solution will be to require tech judges to go thru MORE extensive training and have examples shown to them by area squads who might would volunteer to be used as example.

One thing I do ask is everyone who is a critic towards Belfry and their frustration in the situtation, put yourself in their shoes. It could have easily been another squad out there who thought they had nothing in their routine (still hasn't been proved illegal) yet, you were disqualified after being cleared...... Take the time to think of those girls hard work, dedication, time, aches, pains, tears..... It could have been you!!

[Bubbles]

Congrats to the 15th region winners and very impressive showing by the 57th district.

Magoffin Co- Choreography
Johnson Central - Crowd Involvement (Love the flashing glasses)
Sheldon Clark- Showmanship

All three teams and fans showed great respect for the sport. Which is very important to what most do not even consider a sport. Way to go!!!
Hold you heads high you deserve MANY KUDOS!

[cheer1020]

the louisa middle school definitely had the best tumbling! They had 3 fulls!
Also, Adams middle school had full ups into their stunts!

[sportsfan06]

Just a question... have they changed the rules that if you stepoff the blue mat that points are deducted.. I know was that way when I was in school. I noticed that after Belfy's girlsfinished tumbling they were all off the mat... Just wondering if that had anything to do with it.

[Bubbles]

Just a question... have they changed the rules that if you stepoff the blue mat that points are deducted.. I know was that way when I was in school. I noticed that after Belfy's girlsfinished tumbling they were all off the mat... Just wondering if that had anything to do with it.

I wondered the same thing last year when Belfry went to state because they were all over the floor. According to my understanding KAPOS does not deduct points for being all over the floor and off the mats. However, Nationals do! So I suppose they only plan on competing at state level.

[<32cheer]

So now everyone is picking on Belfry?:please: hh:

Come on get this junk out of here, BGR isnt the place for this.:dontthink

Take this somewheres else, maybe channel 3 news or the papers.

I wasnt there and no it did not make me jealous. When belfry can beat LC in something like baseball, basketball, come talk.
Its cheering, 85% of the fans there might have been from belfry even though the EXPO is so close to belfry, just because belfry had alot of fans there doesnt mean they should have won.:Thumbs:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------Yes having the most fans doesnt mean that we shouldve won but our talent does... Also, having the most fans means that we shouldve got the crowd interaction award. (which went to JC) tell me how 3 rows can compare to 3 sections.

[<32cheer]

well how is a handstand going into a mount illegal? How is a front walkover out of a cradle illegal? tell me that .. there are so many crazier things i can think of. EXAMPLE: people running over the girls backs in the pyramid? Go watch the video. There is nothing illegal about our split mount!