[oneijoe]

Folks...

Like all threads in this forum, this one has devolved into liberal/conservative and Dem./Rep. bickering (with me as guilty as any). Let's stay on subject here, just on the off-chance there's any truth to Obama not being a natural born citizen, understanding there is NO precedence for this in our nation's history.

So I ask once again...

How do you think a disqualification of Sen. Obama should be handled if done before he and Sen. Biden are sworn into office ???

[Crossbones]

That holds true only if the Supreme Court will have acted to disqualify O after both he and Joe had been sworn in.

O is NOT President until he takes the Oath of Office (NOT after the popular or electoral vote - it's in the Constitution as linked), and Joe isn't VP until he does the same.

Link please! Not discrediting you, just like to read it for myself.

NOTE: I typed this before I read your last post. I can't come up with any info on what would happen.

[Crossbones]

That holds true only if the Supreme Court will have acted to disqualify O after both he and Joe had been sworn in.

O is NOT President until he takes the Oath of Office (NOT after the popular or electoral vote - it's in the Constitution as linked), and Joe isn't VP until he does the same.

I went back and read it again. I believe you to be wrong. Read Admendment 20.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/...entxx.html

[oneijoe]

I'll take first stab at it.

1. There's an emergency re-election within 2-3 months contested between candidates forwarded by the respective political parties.
2. VP Elect Biden acts as President until the new President is elected.

-or-

1. NO re-election to preserve current terms of office.
2. The Electoral College members are released from obligation to vote for a disqualified candidate and may then vote for any other candidate that ran for President in a majority of the states. This would include the Republican, Libertarian, Green, Constitution, and Socialist Party candidates.


The first track would be the more readily accepted by the populace, but it would be very complicated and would grind lawmaking to a halt (due to a lame duck executive) for an extended period of time.

Even though the 2nd track might rightfully punish the Democratic Party for not vetting its candidate properly, I doubt the President or Congress would do it. There's too much risk of civil strife on a national scale.

[oneijoe]

I went back and read it again. I believe you to be wrong. Read Admendment 20.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/...entxx.html

Gotcha !! (The previous link went to a different area of the document)

It seems clear VP-Elect Biden will act as President in the event of disqualification of the Pres.-Elect..

However, what's not as clear is...Would Biden then serve a 4 yr. term, or only until an emergency election is held ?? The Constitution says (when referring to the VP-Elect serving as CinC), "...then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified".

[oneijoe]

I went back and read it again. I believe you to be wrong. Read Admendment 20.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/...entxx.html

Where I got the info I referred to previously was the last paragraph, Section 1, Article 2 of the Constitution (scroll down after using your first link):

Before he enter on the execution of his office, he shall take the following oath or affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

[Crossbones]

Gotcha !! (The previous link went to a different area of the document)

It seems clear VP-Elect Biden will act as President in the event of disqualification of the Pres.-Elect..

However, what's not as clear is...Would Biden then serve a 4 yr. term, or only until an emergency election is held ?? The Constitution says (when referring to the VP-Elect serving as CinC), "...then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified".

I don't think that he would. My reading and understanding is that another election would take place.

Where I got the info I referred to previously was the last paragraph, Section 1, Article 2 of the Constitution (scroll down after using your first link):

Before he enter on the execution of his office, he shall take the following oath or affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

That was my fault. The Admendments link was at the bottom and didn't come up with the first link. You would had to have clicked on the Admendments link within the first link.

[oneijoe]

I don't think that he would. My reading and understanding is that another election would take place.

That's how I read it, too.

That was my fault. The Admendments link was at the bottom and didn't come up with the first link. You would had to have clicked on the Admendments link within the first link.

No problem. Just wanted to make clear I'm not making stuff up.

I appreciate your input !! Very, VERY interesting stuff.

Check out some of the "replies" at the bottom of the very first posted link (in the first post of the thread). With the advent of the internet, there's no way this issue can just "disappear". The Supreme Court can't let this go until it's resolved, no matter how badly it would prefer doing so.

[Crossbones]

That's how I read it, too.




No problem. Just wanted to make clear I'm not making stuff up.

I appreciate your input !! Very, VERY interesting stuff.

Check out some of the "replies" at the bottom of the very first posted link (in the first post of the thread). With the advent of the internet, there's no way this issue can just "disappear". The Supreme Court can't let this go until it's resolved, no matter how badly it would prefer doing so.

Agreed. Something will be done one way or another IMO. I didn't mean to come off as saying you were making it up, it could have been read that way. I honestly remember you from the other board and always took you for a lawyer. I mean that with respect, you seem to always have alot of knowledge of subjects.

[jetpilot]

Folks...

Like all threads in this forum, this one has devolved into liberal/conservative and Dem./Rep. bickering (with me as guilty as any). Let's stay on subject here, just on the off-chance there's any truth to Obama not being a natural born citizen, understanding there is NO precedence for this in our nation's history.

So I ask once again...

How do you think a disqualification of Sen. Obama should be handled if done before he and Sen. Biden are sworn into office ???

There is no way anyone would be stupid enough to try slide into the presidency as a non-citizen...this is a non-issue that will be used against conservatives in the liberal press...

[Beetle01]

Here's the tricky part though. Only 26 states require their electoral votes to goto the candidate that won the popular vote in that state. Most fo those states are red states. They don't cast their electoral votes until the 16th of Dec, and that could be delayed if it does seem that Barry might not be qualified. In that case, those electoral votes could be cast for whoever, and I imagine most would goto McCain. However, if this event does occur, it will be very ugly in this country imo.

[Crossbones]

Here's the tricky part though. Only 26 states require their electoral votes to goto the candidate that won the popular vote in that state. Most fo those states are red states. They don't cast their electoral votes until the 16th of Dec, and that could be delayed if it does seem that Barry might not be qualified. In that case, those electoral votes could be cast for whoever, and I imagine most would goto McCain. However, if this event does occur, it will be very ugly in this country imo.

According to the US Constitution, Joe Biden would become President.http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/...entxx.html

[Beetle01]

According to the US Constitution, Joe Biden would become President.http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/...entxx.html

I see that, but eventhough Obama is called the President-elect, he is not officially the President elect until the electoral college casts its votes.

What I'm saying is what happens in those states that don't require their electoral votes to goto the candidate who won the popular vote, decide to change their cotes to another candidate, such as McCain.

[Crossbones]

I see that, but eventhough Obama is called the President-elect, he is not officially the President elect until the electoral college casts its votes.

What I'm saying is what happens in those states that don't require their electoral votes to goto the candidate who won the popular vote, decide to change their cotes to another candidate, such as McCain.

Would never happen. Too many fears IMO.

[Beetle01]

Would never happen. Too many fears IMO.

Well we may be about to find out. Check out my thread on Obama's brithplace to be confirmed.

[Crossbones]

Well we may be about to find out. Check out my thread on Obama's brithplace to be confirmed.

I read it. Irregardless, Biden would be President according to the Constitution. O Bama is President-Elect which in turn makes Biden Vice-President-Elect. Reading the Constitution, it Say's if the President-Elect does not qualify then the Vice President Elect is appointed President until the President-Elect qualifies. It say's nothing of the electoral vote. Worse case scenario, Congress will appoint a President. A Dem. controlled Congress.

[Beetle01]

Obama is not the President elect yet officially, not until the electoral college cats its votes on Dec 16th. Is there something you are struggling to understand?

[Beetle01]

It also does nto state until the President Elect qualifies, it states until a President or Vice President qualifies. Meaning Biden would act as President one year, and we would have new elections in Nov.

[Crossbones]

Obama is not the President elect yet officially, not until the electoral college cats its votes on Dec 16th. Is there something you are struggling to understand?

Not struggling to understand anything. Barack O Bama was elected President in the last election. Hence the title he has of President-Elect. The electoral college vote has just not officially been given to him. Do you honestly think that it won't? That's pulling at straws at best. I'm not saying O Bama should be President no matter what. If he is not a natural born citizen, then he is not quailified, but I am saying Biden would be President.

[Crossbones]

It also does nto state until the President Elect qualifies, it states until a President or Vice President qualifies. Meaning Biden would act as President one year, and we would have new elections in Nov.

I beg to differ.Section 3. If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.
I have no problem with your last part. Biden would serve as President until the President-Elect qualifies or there would be a new election.

[Beetle01]

I honestly think if it is shown that Obama is not eligible to be President before the electoral college casts their votes, in states that don't require their electoral votes to goto the popular vote, they will be given to McCain.

BTW there would be no qualifying for Obama if this is true. He actually can't even go back to his role as a US Senator.

[Crossbones]

I honestly think if it is shown that Obama is not eligible to be President before the electoral college casts their votes, in states that don't require their electoral votes to goto the popular vote, they will be given to McCain.

BTW there would be no qualifying for Obama if this is true. He actually can't even go back to his role as a US Senator.

"Is there something you are struggling to understand?" The US Constitution covers this. You simply need to read the links posted. This is not a track meet and the second place guy wins because the Winner started early. That is why the person running for President has a running mate. Just for instances like this. The last part, I would agree with. I'm not trying to just argue your every point, but the law is plain in this. The problem is some people will pick and choose the parts of the law and even the Bible that suits them and leaves out the parts that don't. JMHO

[Beetle01]

"Is there something you are struggling to understand?" The US Constitution covers this. You simply need to read the links posted. This is not a track meet and the second place guy wins because the Winner started early. That is why the person running for President has a running mate. Just for instances like this. The last part, I would agree with. I'm not trying to just argue your every point, but the law is plain in this. The problem is some people will pick and choose the parts of the law and even the Bible that suits them and leaves out the parts that don't. JMHO

Okay obviously you don't fully understand our electoral system. In reality, the electoral college could still vote in McCain. In the 24 states where they are free to vote for who they want, they could still all cast their electoral votes for McCain. Even if this whole thing with Obama's birth is untrue. That's what I think you are not understanding. Nothing is official yet. The electoral college can still change their votes. Well those in the 24 states that I have previously mentioned. Considering its mostly red states that have the voter tie in clause, more than likely I could see McCain getting the nomination.

[Crossbones]

Okay obviously you don't fully understand our electoral system. In reality, the electoral college could still vote in McCain. In the 24 states where they are free to vote for who they want, they could still all cast their electoral votes for McCain. Even if this whole thing with Obama's birth is untrue. That's what I think you are not understanding. Nothing is official yet. The electoral college can still change their votes. Well those in the 24 states that I have previously mentioned. Considering its mostly red states that have the voter tie in clause, more than likely I could see McCain getting the nomination.

I understand it pretty well. The internet is a great study tool. Read deadlocked Chambers.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Electoral_College
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faithless_elector

[Beetle01]

I understand it pretty well. The internet is a great study tool. Read deadlocked Chambers.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Electoral_College
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faithless_elector

Rather than directly voting for the President and Vice President, United States citizens cast votes for electors. Electors are technically free to vote for anyone eligible to be President, but in practice pledge to vote for specific candidates[2] and voters cast ballots for favored presidential and vice presidential candidates by voting for correspondingly pledged electors.[3


Pretty much covers my point.