[plantmanky]

With the attrition of teams starting to happen, you are going to end up with 5 classes sooner rather than later.

[RoShamBo]

Until you fix the recruiting problem it doesn't really matter.
Class doesn't matter as it is prevalent in every class.
Outside of Boyle Co. (I'm sure there are probably a couple more but none really come to mind) and private schools in the last 20 years what teams that are not "state border schools" have enjoyed sustained success. Most of your competing for a state championship every year schools are in border counties that reach into surrounding states and pluck the talent from less successful programs with the promise of jobs for a kids parents or whatever. Sure every now and then a non border school will put together a good run for 2-3 years but not on a year by year basis. I'm not going to name schools but just look at a a map.

I guess the question would be at what distance would you consider a school to be near the border? Everyone is going to point to Belfry, but I will say in Belfry's defense, BHS is closer than Mingo Central is to Williamson.

I don't think it is as much of a factor because of the schools that are close to the border that do not enjoy sustained success. If Belfry can do it, why not Henderson County, or Tilghman/McCracken, or Hopkinsville/Christian Co., or any number of the tradition rich schools in NEKY on the Ohio River? I think what you've got in Pike County is an exception.


I would disagree. How many Cincinnati kids have been on the rosters of some of  those NKy teams. How many New Albany kids have been on Louisville teams?  Also I can think of a couple in western KY that have benefited from non district players. 
When you look at the list of most state championships won most are either a private school or a school that is in a border county. Just because School A does not get out of district players does not mean they could if willing to offer jobs, houses, etc. It goes on in more places than one would think. Even outside of Pike Co. 

I'll cede NKY because they do get some spillover from Cincinnati (even though the best players from Cincinnati are not coming to NKY), but outside of that, which of the border schools do you think are enjoying more of an advantage than a school simply drawing in talent because of their success? Louisville gets kids from New Albany because the Louisville schools play at a higher level than New Albany, same way Boyle County plays at a higher level than the counties around them and Belfry (usually) does vs. Mingo Central. Do Hopkinsville and Christian County across the border from Clarksville (population 152K) have more of an advantage than Boyle County drawing in players from Anderson, Garrard, Lincoln, Marion, and Mercer Counties (population 105K combined)? How about Henderson County across the border from Evansville, IN (population 118K)? If so, then why aren't they winning more? The border schools that draw players in from across state lines are able to bring players in because of their success, not the other way around. It is no different than a school in the middle of the state pulling in kids from surrounding counties.

[RAMDAD50]

I don’t think you will ever see them go back to anything less then 6 classes. Hell…they would have 7 classes if they could. We talk about this every year and idk why.More classes equals more championships games equals more money.

[pjdoug]

Until you fix the recruiting problem it doesn't really matter.
Class doesn't matter as it is prevalent in every class.
Outside of Boyle Co. (I'm sure there are probably a couple more but none really come to mind) and private schools in the last 20 years what teams that are not "state border schools" have enjoyed sustained success. Most of your competing for a state championship every year schools are in border counties that reach into surrounding states and pluck the talent from less successful programs with the promise of jobs for a kids parents or whatever. Sure every now and then a non border school will put together a good run for 2-3 years but not on a year by year basis. I'm not going to name schools but just look at a a map.

I guess the question would be at what distance would you consider a school to be near the border? Everyone is going to point to Belfry, but I will say in Belfry's defense, BHS is closer than Mingo Central is to Williamson.

I don't think it is as much of a factor because of the schools that are close to the border that do not enjoy sustained success. If Belfry can do it, why not Henderson County, or Tilghman/McCracken, or Hopkinsville/Christian Co., or any number of the tradition rich schools in NEKY on the Ohio River? I think what you've got in Pike County is an exception.


I would disagree. How many Cincinnati kids have been on the rosters of some of  those NKy teams. How many New Albany kids have been on Louisville teams?  Also I can think of a couple in western KY that have benefited from non district players. 
When you look at the list of most state championships won most are either a private school or a school that is in a border county. Just because School A does not get out of district players does not mean they could if willing to offer jobs, houses, etc. It goes on in more places than one would think. Even outside of Pike Co. 

Keep bringing the truth. lol

[#55PirateFan]

Like some have already said, I don't mind the 6 Class system, my problem is with every team making the playoffs. I'm sure someone has already said this but in my opinion only the top two teams in each District should make the postseason. I've never understood the reasoning behind letting every team in the playoffs. Make every team earn it. I've never liked that about KY High School Football. I'm not sure but I'd just about bet its has something to do with money.

[pjdoug]

Until you fix the recruiting problem it doesn't really matter.
Class doesn't matter as it is prevalent in every class.
Outside of Boyle Co. (I'm sure there are probably a couple more but none really come to mind) and private schools in the last 20 years what teams that are not "state border schools" have enjoyed sustained success. Most of your competing for a state championship every year schools are in border counties that reach into surrounding states and pluck the talent from less successful programs with the promise of jobs for a kids parents or whatever. Sure every now and then a non border school will put together a good run for 2-3 years but not on a year by year basis. I'm not going to name schools but just look at a a map.

I guess the question would be at what distance would you consider a school to be near the border? Everyone is going to point to Belfry, but I will say in Belfry's defense, BHS is closer than Mingo Central is to Williamson.

I don't think it is as much of a factor because of the schools that are close to the border that do not enjoy sustained success. If Belfry can do it, why not Henderson County, or Tilghman/McCracken, or Hopkinsville/Christian Co., or any number of the tradition rich schools in NEKY on the Ohio River? I think what you've got in Pike County is an exception.


I would disagree. How many Cincinnati kids have been on the rosters of some of  those NKy teams. How many New Albany kids have been on Louisville teams?  Also I can think of a couple in western KY that have benefited from non district players. 
When you look at the list of most state championships won most are either a private school or a school that is in a border county. Just because School A does not get out of district players does not mean they could if willing to offer jobs, houses, etc. It goes on in more places than one would think. Even outside of Pike Co. 

I'll cede NKY because they do get some spillover from Cincinnati (even though the best players from Cincinnati are not coming to NKY), but outside of that, which of the border schools do you think are enjoying more of an advantage than a school simply drawing in talent because of their success? Louisville gets kids from New Albany because the Louisville schools play at a higher level than New Albany, same way Boyle County plays at a higher level than the counties around them and Belfry (usually) does vs. Mingo Central. Do Hopkinsville and Christian County across the border from Clarksville (population 152K) have more of an advantage than Boyle County drawing in players from Anderson, Garrard, Lincoln, Marion, and Mercer Counties (population 105K combined)? How about Henderson County across the border from Evansville, IN (population 118K)? If so, then why aren't they winning more? The border schools that draw players in from across state lines are able to bring players in because of their success, not the other way around. It is no different than a school in the middle of the state pulling in kids from surrounding counties.

It's true whether you can admit  it or not. The success draws kids is old and tiresome. You have success because you are stealing all the good players to begin with. Bowling Green and Owensboro are a couple others that should have been named.

[pjdoug]

I don’t think you will ever see them go back to anything less then 6 classes. Hell…they would have 7 classes if they could. We talk about this every year and idk why.More classes equals more championships games equals more money.

I think some are whining because it limits their cheating. lol

[RoShamBo]

Until you fix the recruiting problem it doesn't really matter.
Class doesn't matter as it is prevalent in every class.
Outside of Boyle Co. (I'm sure there are probably a couple more but none really come to mind) and private schools in the last 20 years what teams that are not "state border schools" have enjoyed sustained success. Most of your competing for a state championship every year schools are in border counties that reach into surrounding states and pluck the talent from less successful programs with the promise of jobs for a kids parents or whatever. Sure every now and then a non border school will put together a good run for 2-3 years but not on a year by year basis. I'm not going to name schools but just look at a a map.

I guess the question would be at what distance would you consider a school to be near the border? Everyone is going to point to Belfry, but I will say in Belfry's defense, BHS is closer than Mingo Central is to Williamson.

I don't think it is as much of a factor because of the schools that are close to the border that do not enjoy sustained success. If Belfry can do it, why not Henderson County, or Tilghman/McCracken, or Hopkinsville/Christian Co., or any number of the tradition rich schools in NEKY on the Ohio River? I think what you've got in Pike County is an exception.


I would disagree. How many Cincinnati kids have been on the rosters of some of  those NKy teams. How many New Albany kids have been on Louisville teams?  Also I can think of a couple in western KY that have benefited from non district players. 
When you look at the list of most state championships won most are either a private school or a school that is in a border county. Just because School A does not get out of district players does not mean they could if willing to offer jobs, houses, etc. It goes on in more places than one would think. Even outside of Pike Co. 

I'll cede NKY because they do get some spillover from Cincinnati (even though the best players from Cincinnati are not coming to NKY), but outside of that, which of the border schools do you think are enjoying more of an advantage than a school simply drawing in talent because of their success? Louisville gets kids from New Albany because the Louisville schools play at a higher level than New Albany, same way Boyle County plays at a higher level than the counties around them and Belfry (usually) does vs. Mingo Central. Do Hopkinsville and Christian County across the border from Clarksville (population 152K) have more of an advantage than Boyle County drawing in players from Anderson, Garrard, Lincoln, Marion, and Mercer Counties (population 105K combined)? How about Henderson County across the border from Evansville, IN (population 118K)? If so, then why aren't they winning more? The border schools that draw players in from across state lines are able to bring players in because of their success, not the other way around. It is no different than a school in the middle of the state pulling in kids from surrounding counties.

It's true whether you can admit  it or not. The success draws kids is old and tiresome. You have success because you are stealing all the good players to begin with. Bowling Green and Owensboro are a couple others that should have been named.

So name them. Let's throw Mayfield in there too. All of these teams are successful because they go across the border to get players. Is that what you're saying? Not that those schools have had sustained success for years which makes people want to go play for them, but that they are actively going and recruiting players?

[pjdoug]

I guess the question would be at what distance would you consider a school to be near the border? Everyone is going to point to Belfry, but I will say in Belfry's defense, BHS is closer than Mingo Central is to Williamson.

I don't think it is as much of a factor because of the schools that are close to the border that do not enjoy sustained success. If Belfry can do it, why not Henderson County, or Tilghman/McCracken, or Hopkinsville/Christian Co., or any number of the tradition rich schools in NEKY on the Ohio River? I think what you've got in Pike County is an exception.


I would disagree. How many Cincinnati kids have been on the rosters of some of  those NKy teams. How many New Albany kids have been on Louisville teams?  Also I can think of a couple in western KY that have benefited from non district players. 
When you look at the list of most state championships won most are either a private school or a school that is in a border county. Just because School A does not get out of district players does not mean they could if willing to offer jobs, houses, etc. It goes on in more places than one would think. Even outside of Pike Co. 

I'll cede NKY because they do get some spillover from Cincinnati (even though the best players from Cincinnati are not coming to NKY), but outside of that, which of the border schools do you think are enjoying more of an advantage than a school simply drawing in talent because of their success? Louisville gets kids from New Albany because the Louisville schools play at a higher level than New Albany, same way Boyle County plays at a higher level than the counties around them and Belfry (usually) does vs. Mingo Central. Do Hopkinsville and Christian County across the border from Clarksville (population 152K) have more of an advantage than Boyle County drawing in players from Anderson, Garrard, Lincoln, Marion, and Mercer Counties (population 105K combined)? How about Henderson County across the border from Evansville, IN (population 118K)? If so, then why aren't they winning more? The border schools that draw players in from across state lines are able to bring players in because of their success, not the other way around. It is no different than a school in the middle of the state pulling in kids from surrounding counties.

It's true whether you can admit  it or not. The success draws kids is old and tiresome. You have success because you are stealing all the good players to begin with. Bowling Green and Owensboro are a couple others that should have been named.

So name them. Let's throw Mayfield in there too. All of these teams are successful because they go across the border to get players. Is that what you're saying? Not that those schools have had sustained success for years which makes people want to go play for them, but that they are actively going and recruiting players?

I'm not going on with you all night over this. You can play dumb like you don't know what is going on, but any person with common sense knows a lot of these schools recruit by giving the parents better jobs and housing.

[RoShamBo]

So if they are giving housing and jobs what does proximity to the border have to do with it?

[wolfcat]

Trinity, Highlands, Mayfield, Beechwood, St X, Danville, Boyle, Cov Cath, Male, Belfry.

These schools are the top 10 in all-time titles. Throw out Danville and Boyle(who have greatly benefited from out of county transfers as well) What do they all have in common? They are from border areas. Regardless of why a kid may cross from Cincinnati or New Albany or Mango it is still against the rules and the "have not" schools that don't have the money or facilities or job offering opportunities do not stand a chance on a year in and year out basis. The numbers don't lie.

[RoShamBo]

I don't think Trinity, Male, and St. Xavier are so good because of their proximity to New Albany, but that's beside the point. You said it in your post. They have success because they commit the resources required to sustain success. That's it.

[BoondockSaint]

Simple answer is YES.  

What is the correct number? That requires more discussion.  

My brief and blunt opinion is 4 classes, those with open enrollment and private schools compete amongst themselves for a private school title.  The smaller ones compete for state titles amongst schools with a proportionate enrollment of boys.

[Mayfieldsportsfan]

I don't know of any players for Mayfield that came from a border state. I may be wrong though. We do get some from Graves County.
Mayfield just doesn't have the General Tire jobs to offer anymore lol.

[pjdoug]

I don't know of any players for Mayfield that came from a border state. I may be wrong though. We do get some from Graves County.
Mayfield just doesn't have the General Tire jobs to offer anymore lol.

LOL. it hurts when certain coal companies or factories leave. Coca Cola has always helped Middlesboro while Pepsi and the railroad gave Corbin a boost. Some schools are able to get daddy a good job driving a bread or pop truck. lol

[Hang Laig]

One class. Limit rosters to 30 players.problem solved. It would be interesting to see how the balance of power in football would shift.

[sstack]

Six is too many, it gets watered down and does not mean as much. I still do not like the everyone gets a medal thinking. Why no complaints about soccer and basketball only having one class? Why is it always so much noise over football. I am familiar with track and it is truly about money when they water it down. When I ran they had top 8 runners at state which would be one race. There were three classes and all three classes ran on same day. Now they take 24 runners and have three heats. The meets are spread out over three days. Some runners are literally 5-6 minutes slower then top runners in distance events. That is crazy, not what a championship is supposed to be.

[Hoot Gibson]

I do not understand peoples' contention that fewer teams should make the playoffs. Besides developing teamwork and individual character, the objectives of high school athletics should be maximizing the quality of football teams, coaches, and players in the state. Kentucky is not a strong football state. 

Obviously less football would not result in better football being played in Kentucky. Neither individual players, coaches, or teams would benefit by playing fewer games. That seems like common sense to me, yet many people keep deriding Kentucky's football playoff system as the everybody gets a trophy mentality. Are trophies being handed out teams that lose their first-round playoff games?

Indiana is a strong football state and every team participates in its playoff system. The latter rounds of Indiana's playoffs are more competitive than Kentucky's are in general, and it is easier for more teams to climb to the top of the heap. Take Kentucky's top class, for example. Even in a down year, Trinity is considered one of the top contenders to win the 6A title.

More high school football practices and games should be played in Kentucky and travel to games should be shorter. The number of football classes should be reduced to 4 or 5 and every team should be allowed into the playoffs. If necessary to achieve the objective of more football for every team, then the regular season should also be extended by one game.

Another rule that should be considered is forcing any team that wins two consecutive state titles in one of the lower classes to play in the next larger class after the next reclassification of teams. The school with the smallest enrollment in the class would be dropped to the next smaller class to accommodate the addition of back-to-back state titlists.

Also, something needs to be done to improve the quality of football coaches in Kentucky. There are too few quality head coaches in the state. I don't know the answer, maybe a mentoring program, training seminars, or a combination of the two, but the difference in the ability of head coaches is the single biggest factor in a small number of teams dominating Kentucky high school football, IMO. I would appoint a commission consisting of top current or former coaches to study this issue and recommend how the quality of coaching can be elevated.

[Real Badman]

Trinity, Highlands, Mayfield, Beechwood, St X, Danville, Boyle, Cov Cath, Male, Belfry.

These schools are the top  10 in all-time titles. Throw out Danville and Boyle(who have greatly benefited from out of county transfers as well) What do they all have in common? They are from border areas. Regardless of why a kid may cross from Cincinnati or New Albany or Mango it is still against the rules and the "have not" schools that don't have the money or facilities or job offering opportunities do not stand a chance on a year in and year out basis. The numbers don't lie.

This is basically the answer. If you live in Louisville, do you want your child to go to Iroquois or Shawnee, or do you want them to have the best opportunity whether that is Saint Xavier, CAL, DeSales, or even Holy Cross? It is a community and school district problem. I want my kids at the best school. We have to see the bigger picture.

[sstack]

I do not understand peoples' contention that fewer teams should make the playoffs. Besides developing teamwork and individual character, the objectives of high school athletics should be maximizing the quality of football teams, coaches, and players in the state. Kentucky is not a strong football state. 

Obviously less football would not result in better football being played in Kentucky. Neither individual players, coaches, or teams would benefit by playing fewer games. That seems like common sense to me, yet many people keep deriding Kentucky's football playoff system as the everybody gets a trophy mentality. Are trophies being handed out teams that lose their first-round playoff games?

Indiana is a strong football state and every team participates in its playoff system. The latter rounds of Indiana's playoffs are more competitive than Kentucky's are in general, and it is easier for more teams to climb to the top of the heap. Take Kentucky's top class, for example. Even in a down year, Trinity is considered one of the top contenders to win the 6A title.

More high school football practices and games should be played in Kentucky and travel to games should be shorter. The number of football classes should be reduced to 4 or 5 and every team should be allowed into the playoffs. If necessary to achieve the objective of more football for every team, then the regular season should also be extended by one game.

Another rule that should be considered is forcing any team that wins two consecutive state titles in one of the lower classes to play in the next larger class after the next reclassification of teams. The school with the smallest enrollment in the class would be dropped to the next smaller class to accommodate the addition of back-to-back state titlists.

Also, something needs to be done to improve the quality of football coaches in Kentucky. There are too few quality head coaches in the state. I don't know the answer, maybe a mentoring program, training seminars, or a combination of the two, but the difference in the ability of head coaches is the single biggest factor in a small number of teams dominating Kentucky high school football, IMO. I would appoint a commission consisting of top current or former coaches to study this issue and recommend how the quality of coaching can be elevated.

lack of quality coaching is a problem but I think it is getting better. NKY teams got tired of losing to Cov Cath and Highlands and started going out and getting better coaches. Have seen a big improvement in all of NKY

[barnabus_c2001]

You guys think it is fair for big schools in rural areas  to have to play big Lexington and Louisville schools? or smallest schools to play against private schools?  Only if you can recruit like they do. lol

Finaly something we agree on PJ!!!

[pjdoug]

You guys think it is fair for big schools in rural areas  to have to play big Lexington and Louisville schools? or smallest schools to play against private schools?  Only if you can recruit like they do. lol

Finaly something we agree on PJ!!!

We probably agree on a lot. I'm like that mean football player that's nice when he's off the field. I just have fun talking trash. lol

[TheBear]

Instead of reducing number of classes or the number of teams in playoffs, let try some more innovative solutions. Personally, I would like to see the following:

1. Revise classifications ever two years.
2. In 1A only, allow schools that have never had football or have not had football in the past 3 years, to work out a interlocal cooperative agreement, allow is state statutes for the neighboring school with football to allow players to participate at that school. If the enrollments increase to where be a 2A, then must compete upward, if not stay in class A. Could help out 1A participation.
3. As for the playoffs, let shake up the boat completely. If we are going to have the RPI, then lets use it. At end of regular season, the RPI is used to set the playoffs. The playoffs will be divided into two tournaments KHSAA STATE CHAMPIONSHIP and State Invitational Tournament. The upper half of the RPI goes into the state championship and the lower half can accept an invitation to the State Invitational Tournament, or add one additional game.
This basically keeps everyone that opportunity to play postseason and should allow for shorter postseason. As well as, very well could allow for some more competitive match ups.
What is a few more games, as only 6% of the players will ever compete beyond highschool.

I am sure I have more, but I got to work!

[pirateforlife]

Instead of reducing number of classes or the number of teams in playoffs, let try some more innovative solutions.  Personally, I would like to see the following:

1.  Revise classifications ever two years.
2.  In 1A only, allow schools that have never had football or have not had football in the past 3 years, to work out a interlocal cooperative agreement, allow is state statutes for the neighboring school with football to allow players to participate at that school.  If the enrollments increase to where be a 2A, then must compete upward, if not stay in class A.  Could help out 1A participation.
3.  As for the playoffs, let shake up the boat completely.  If we are going to have the RPI, then lets use it.  At end of regular season, the RPI is used to set the playoffs.  The playoffs will be divided into two tournaments KHSAA STATE CHAMPIONSHIP and State Invitational Tournament.    The upper half of the RPI goes into the state championship and the lower half can accept an invitation to the State Invitational Tournament, or add one additional game.   
This basically keeps everyone that opportunity to play postseason and should allow for shorter postseason.  As well as, very well could allow for some more competitive match ups. 
What is a few more games, as only 6% of the players will ever compete beyond highschool. 

I am sure I have more, but I got to work!

Regarding point 3 you made to the rpi being used from round 1 on there would be a few issues. Even though Belfry won their district and beat Lawrence County on the field decisively, they are still ranked lower than them in rpi. So if they did meet up in the playoffs if rpi was used from round 1 on then Belfry would travel to Lawrence. I'd be more in favor of the rpi if there was a different formula used to calculate it. Margin of victory should be taken into account. 1-9 point win worth so many points, 10-19 point victory worth so many points, 20-29 point victory worth so many points, then 30 or more margin of victory worth so many points. A 1 point victory should not be scored the same as a running clock victory.

[pirateforlife]

So after the playoffs 1st 4 rounds have been completed does anyone feel any different? Still a lot of non competitive games in the state in the semi finals. 12 games and 6 of them were running clocks. I still say 5 classes is the perfect number.

[wolfcat]

Anyone who still thinks 6 classes is best is crazy. Look at all the blowouts last night. No upsets. Think if we could go back to 4 classes. You would have had some much better games.
Pikeville vs Beechwood?
LCA vs Belfry?
South Warren vs Johnson Central?
Frederick Douglass vs St X?
These playoffs have been horrendous. I still see a couple blowouts coming in the finals.
Pikeville may have a running clock by the half. Very should win by 3 tds. For you guys who thinks everyone should get in the playoffs this is what you get. Watered down football in the state semifinals. I think we will have a clue great games in the finals but it would have been great to have 3 weeks of great games instead of the garbage we saw tonight

[Hambley]

I think 5 classes would be more competitive. It has been awesome seeing teams like Russellville, Bethlehem, and a few other teams get competitive in Class 1A

[wolfcat]

Anyone who still thinks 6 classes is best is crazy. Look at all the blowouts last night. No upsets. Think if we could go back to 4 classes. You would have had some much better games.
Pikeville vs Beechwood?
LCA vs Belfry?
South Warren vs Johnson Central?
Frederick Douglass vs St X?
These playoffs have been horrendous. I still see a couple blowouts coming in the finals.
Pikeville may have a running clock by the half. Belfry should win by 3 tds. For you guys who think everyone should get in the playoffs this is what you get. Watered down football in the state semifinals. I think we will have a couple great games in the finals but it would have been great to have 3 weeks of great games instead of the garbage we saw tonight

[Hoot Gibson]

Anyone who still thinks 6 classes is best is crazy. Look at all the blowouts last night. No upsets. Think if we could go back to 4 classes. You would have had some much better games.
Pikeville vs Beechwood?
LCA vs Belfry?
South Warren vs Johnson Central?
Frederick Douglass vs St X?
These playoffs have been horrendous. I still see a couple blowouts coming in the finals.
Pikeville may have a running clock by the half. Very should win by 3 tds. For you guys who thinks everyone should get in the playoffs this is what you get. Watered down football in the state semifinals. I think we will have a clue great games in the finals but it would have been great to have 3 weeks of great games instead of the garbage we saw tonight

Kentucky is a weak football state because there is a wide gap between the quality of coaching at the "have" schools and the "have not" schools. That is not a knock on any of the coaches in the semifinals, but the number of competitive teams in most districts is too small to adequately prepare for the playoffs. Parity in sports benefits every team in a state. There is no gimmick in classification or playoff seeding that will ever mask the root of the problem in Kentucky. The quality of coaching must improve across the board to reduce the number of blowout scores.

I agree that reducing the number of classes would probably result in more good match-ups in the semifinal round but it will not solve the problem of a lack of parity caused by poor coaching at so many schools.

[Spud6]

The gap between the storied programs and everyone else is a major gap on a consistent basis. I’m sure coaching plays a major role but also just the talent pool is at these schools that are major programs year in and year out. Sometimes you’ll have a random team that has a great group of athletes come through but look at 1A. Pikeville is been the top dog for the past 5-6 years. They normally always have 50-60 players. Hard to compete with that talent pool to choose from in 1A