[Hoot Gibson]

The gap between the storied programs and everyone else is a major gap on a consistent basis. I’m sure coaching plays a major role but also just the talent pool is at these schools that are major programs year in and year out. Sometimes you’ll have a random team that has a great group of athletes come through but look at 1A. Pikeville is been the top dog for the past 5-6 years. They normally always have 50-60 players. Hard to compete with that talent pool to choose from in 1A

I disagree. The potential talent among schools with similar enrollment is distributed fairly equally. The reason that there is more parity in "football" states like Indiana, Ohio, etc. is that the quality of coaching is better overall. Talent certainly varies from year to year to some extent, but it does not account for the frequency of first-half running clock games among Kentucky schools with similar enrollment numbers.

Pikeville is among the largest 1A schools, if not the largest, but the fact that it has one of the top coaches in 1A is a big factor in why they have large rosters and consistently competitive teams. The school draws from the same gene pool as every other school in eastern Kentucky.

I grant you that in 1A random variations in talent have a bigger bearing on year-to-year results than in schools with larger enrollments. The odds of the smallest 1A teams in the state ever winning a state title are very long. 

Consider the fact that Pikeville has been much more successful when larger 1A schools like Beechwood, Mayfield, and Danville grew too large to remain in 1A. Potential talent is tied to enrollment size, especially in larger schools. The talent was always present at Johnson Central to field competitive teams and crush 1A teams like Paintsville but consistently good coaching quality was missing. Weak coaching results in lower participation rates, less competitive teams, and weaker community support. Fewer competitive teams also result in a team like Trinity, which can afford to play a strong out-of-state schedule, having a competitive edge over in-state schools with fewer resources.

In contrast to football, Kentucky high school basketball has been blessed with many excellent head coaches over the years, and Kentucky teams have often been able to compete against more physically talented teams from other states as the result. All else being equal, schools with larger enrollments have more potential talent in all sports. Dynasties result when great coaching is combined with a school with a large enrollment.

[bball_fan]

You guys do not want to hear this, but you are one team away from having 7 classes with 32 teams in each. Don't be surprised to see this happen.

[Spud6]

You guys do not want to hear this, but you are one team away from having 7 classes with 32 teams in each. Don't be surprised to see this happen.

No chance

[mrfootball03]

The gap between the storied programs and everyone else is a major gap on a consistent basis. I’m sure coaching plays a major role but also just the talent pool is at these schools that are major programs year in and year out. Sometimes you’ll have a random team that has a great group of athletes come through but look at 1A. Pikeville is been the top dog for the past 5-6 years. They normally always have 50-60 players. Hard to compete with that talent pool to choose from in 1A

I disagree. The potential talent among schools with similar enrollment is distributed fairly equally. The reason that there is more parity in "football" states like Indiana, Ohio, etc. is that the quality of coaching is better overall. Talent certainly varies from year to year to some extent, but it does not account for the frequency of first-half running clock games among Kentucky schools with similar enrollment numbers.

Pikeville is among the largest 1A schools, if not the largest, but the fact that it has one of the top coaches in 1A is a big factor in why they have large rosters and consistently competitive teams. The school draws from the same gene pool as every other school in eastern Kentucky.

I grant you that in 1A random variations in talent have a bigger bearing on year-to-year results than in schools with larger enrollments. The odds of the smallest 1A teams in the state ever winning a state title are very long. 

Consider the fact that Pikeville has been much more successful when larger 1A schools like Beechwood, Mayfield, and Danville grew too large to remain in 1A. Potential talent is tied to enrollment size, especially in larger schools. The talent was always present at Johnson Central to field competitive teams and crush 1A teams like Paintsville but consistently good coaching quality was missing. Weak coaching results in lower participation rates, less competitive teams, and weaker community support. Fewer competitive teams also result in a team like Trinity, which can afford to play a strong out-of-state schedule, having a competitive edge over in-state schools with fewer resources.

In contrast to football, Kentucky high school basketball has been blessed with many excellent head coaches over the years, and Kentucky teams have often been able to compete against more physically talented teams from other states as the result. All else being equal, schools with larger enrollments have more potential talent in all sports. Dynasties result when great coaching is combined with a school with a large enrollment.

To counter your point though, why didn’t one of the “top coaches in 1A” do any good when he left and went to Pike Central with almost double enrollment at the time? ?

[Iam4thecats]

Too many teams in this state lose certain games before the season or before the game is played. Its a lack of belief and a lack of competitiveness.

[bball_fan]

You guys do not want to hear this, but you are one team away from having 7 classes with 32 teams in each. Don't be surprised to see this happen.

No chance

$$$$$$$$$$$

[wolfcat]

Anyone who still thinks 6 classes is best is crazy. Look at all the blowouts last night. No upsets. Think if we could go back to 4 classes. You would have had some much better games.
Pikeville vs Beechwood?
LCA vs Belfry?
South Warren vs Johnson Central?
Frederick Douglass vs St X?
These playoffs have been horrendous. I still see a couple blowouts coming in the finals.
Pikeville may have a running clock by the half. Very should win by 3 tds. For you guys who thinks everyone should get in the playoffs this is what you get. Watered down football in the state semifinals. I think we will have a clue great games in the finals but it would have been great to have 3 weeks of great games instead of the garbage we saw tonight

Kentucky is a weak football state because there is a wide gap between the quality of coaching at the "have" schools and the "have not" schools. That is not a knock on any of the coaches in the semifinals, but the number of competitive teams in most districts is too small to adequately prepare for the playoffs. Parity in sports benefits every team in a state. There is no gimmick in classification or playoff seeding that will ever mask the root of the problem in Kentucky. The quality of coaching must improve across the board to reduce the number of blowout scores.

I agree that reducing the number of classes would probably result in more good match-ups in the semifinal round but it will not solve the problem of a lack of parity caused by poor coaching at so many schools.

---

I agree there is a huge disparity in interest, money spent, etc. But when you get to the semifinals there should not be that much of a difference. Sure every now and then a have not will make a Cinderella run but the other 95% of the time it is your blue blood programs that make it to the semis. My argument is a lot of these teams are no where near good enough to win 3 playoff games. A team like Middlesboro was not a final 4 worthy team. Sure LCA has a very good team but you should never see a 58-0 score in the semi finals. Logan Co is another example. If there were fewer classes those teams would have already been beaten out and you could have blockbuster must see games in the semifinals. Think if it were Beechwood vs Pikeville or LCA vs Belfry in a semi final. Or Boyle vs SouthWarren or Male vs Douglass.
You would have at least 3 weeks of great football instead of these running clock joke of a games we are getting even this late in playoffs.

[Hoot Gibson]

Anyone who still thinks 6 classes is best is crazy. Look at all the blowouts last night. No upsets. Think if we could go back to 4 classes. You would have had some much better games.
Pikeville vs Beechwood?
LCA vs Belfry?
South Warren vs Johnson Central?
Frederick Douglass vs St X?
These playoffs have been horrendous. I still see a couple blowouts coming in the finals.
Pikeville may have a running clock by the half. Very should win by 3 tds. For you guys who thinks everyone should get in the playoffs this is what you get. Watered down football in the state semifinals. I think we will have a clue great games in the finals but it would have been great to have 3 weeks of great games instead of the garbage we saw tonight

Kentucky is a weak football state because there is a wide gap between the quality of coaching at the "have" schools and the "have not" schools. That is not a knock on any of the coaches in the semifinals, but the number of competitive teams in most districts is too small to adequately prepare for the playoffs. Parity in sports benefits every team in a state. There is no gimmick in classification or playoff seeding that will ever mask the root of the problem in Kentucky. The quality of coaching must improve across the board to reduce the number of blowout scores.

I agree that reducing the number of classes would probably result in more good match-ups in the semifinal round but it will not solve the problem of a lack of parity caused by poor coaching at so many schools.

---

I agree there is a huge disparity in interest, money spent, etc. But when you get to the semifinals there should not be that much of a difference. Sure every now and then a have not will make a Cinderella run but the other 95% of the time it is your blue blood programs that make it to the semis. My argument is a lot of these teams are no where near good enough to win 3 playoff games. A team like Middlesboro was not a final 4 worthy team. Sure LCA has a very good team but you should never see a 58-0 score in the semi finals. Logan Co is another example. If there were fewer classes those teams would have already been beaten out and you could have blockbuster must see games in the semifinals. Think if it were Beechwood vs Pikeville or LCA vs Belfry in a semi final. Or Boyle vs SouthWarren or Male vs Douglass.
You would have at least 3 weeks of great football instead of these running clock joke of a games we are getting even this late in playoffs.

Trying to limit the number of blowout games by limiting the number of playoff games does nothing to improve the quality of football played in the state and that is where the focus should be. There is no reason that a school like Johnson Central should be beating every team in its district, consisting of schools with the same approximate enrollment, by running clock scores season after season. The same goes for many other "blue blood" programs across Kentucky.

The problem is not limited to playoff games, most districts are won nearly exclusively by the same one or two teams, year after year. An average head football coach can have a pretty successful career in Kentucky because there are so many mediocre and worse head football coaches working in the state. It is also pretty hard for a weak head coach to develop a good coaching staff.

Football programs exist to give young men the opportunity to develop their individual skills and apply them to a team sport - not to entertain fans. IMO, the focus on final scores in playoff games distracts from the real issue of why so many Kentucky high school football players are deprived of getting the full benefits that football should be providing.

Sure, six classes are too many for a state with Kentucky's size and population, but reducing the number of classes will not do anything to improve the quality of football programs across the state.

[bball_fan]

I'd be alright with the six or even seven class system if we would drop districts and go to West Virginia's playoff style. Top sixteen teams per class make the playoffs, and they are seeded based on a much easier to understand RPI that involves your wins and your opponents record. 1A would have been much more fun if the seeding had been this...

1. Pikeville
2. Hazard
3. Raceland
4. Sayre
5. Paintsville
6. Russellville
7. Bethlehem
8. KCD
9. Williamsburg
10. Pineville
11. Frankfort
12. Brossart
13. Crittenden
14. Betsy Layne
15. Nicholas Co
16. Louis. Holy Cross


Not sure how the seeding would have been actually, that's just a guess but the best teams would not be stuck in a district together. 3 of the top 5 were in one district. The other 2 of the top 5 were in a district... int he first two weeks, you eliminated 3 of your 5 contenders.

That's a poor playoff system!

[Spud6]

Will do that when Pikeville stops recruiting players from Shelby Valley, Johns Creek, Betsy Layne, and Letcher County.

As a Betsy Layne guy.  

Pikeville doesn't have to recruit our guys, they are going there on their own because what are we offering them in football to warrant them staying with us? And I am sure that this applies to other schools you mentioned as well.  Pike Central? When they lost Chapman they fell off and they'll never beat Belfry.  Shelby Valley? Not a big pull their for football as well.

But lets not talk about recruiting as a Belfry fan.

[wolfcat]

If you have more good teams in a class that leads to more good teams in the playoffs when it matters. That is simple mathematics nothing g to do with coaching or haves and have nots. If you go from say 30 teams in a class to 45 those teams that are getting blown out in the semi finals are losing in 1st and 2nd rds instead of the 4th rd. This leads to more talented teams playing when the stakes are highest meaning more entertaining games for us to enjoy.
Take Pikeville for example. They have had pretty much a cake walk to the finals. If we were down to 4 classes Pikevilles road might look like
1st Cupcake
2nd Hazard
3rd Raceland
4th Beechwood
5th Mayfield
If you thru that gauntlet you deserve to be called state champion. Just think what the road would look like for some of the other classes as well. That would be a lot more entertaining than a 58-0 semifinals

[pirateforlife]

Will do that when Pikeville stops recruiting players from Shelby Valley, Johns Creek, Betsy Layne, and Letcher County.

As a Betsy Layne guy.  

Pikeville doesn't have to recruit our guys, they are going there on their own because what are we offering them in football to warrant them staying with us? And I am sure that this applies to other schools you mentioned as well.  Pike Central? When they lost Chapman they fell off and they'll never beat Belfry.  Shelby Valley? Not a big pull their for football as well.

But lets not talk about recruiting as a Belfry fan.

If you would have went back and read the thread you'd see I was joking. Pikeville doesn't recruit and neither does Belfry. Kids come to play for those programs that win. Just like Johnson Central has gotten a lot of kids from Prestonsburg.

[Spoozer12]

Ever thought about a plan like this - Keep six classes but have an urban vs rural factor that would be set for example houses per square mile or whatever factor the state may use from census (I have no clue). For example a school in an urban area the male population would be multiplied by like +0.09 X 900 which would increase males by 81 and the division would be calculated as 981 males, and a rural school would the opposite and be calculated as -0.09 X 900 would subtract 81 males and be calculated as 819 Males. Then set your division lines in 6 categories. It's a real problem when A schools kids only travel 6 or 7 miles to school, where a rural area like Bell County may have kids traveling 25 miles to school. Just a thought. No Matter what's done there will always be cellar dwellers.

[pjdoug]

Will do that when Pikeville stops recruiting players from Shelby Valley, Johns Creek, Betsy Layne, and Letcher County.

As a Betsy Layne guy.  

Pikeville doesn't have to recruit our guys, they are going there on their own because what are we offering them in football to warrant them staying with us? And I am sure that this applies to other schools you mentioned as well.  Pike Central? When they lost Chapman they fell off and they'll never beat Belfry.  Shelby Valley? Not a big pull their for football as well.

But lets not talk about recruiting as a Belfry fan.

If you would have went back and read the thread you'd see I was joking. Pikeville doesn't recruit and neither does Belfry. Kids come to play for those programs that win. Just like Johnson Central has gotten a lot of kids from Prestonsburg.

That's a bunch of malarkey. lol. You win because you get players from everywhere to begin with. it's not college. you're supposed to play kids that live in the school district.