[Don Carlo]

You sure are on the defense old buddy. Whatever makes you sleep better. It's hard for the parents to ask for the card since they were not there. You have no clue what you are talking about, smart one..

It's easy to get ruffled at ole redneck ballbuster but I honestly think he cant help himself. He's been the message board village idiot at Paintsville for years.

[Don Carlo]

The card wasn't given to the player, it was given to the parent who approached the coach, despite what you two geniuses have heard. Yall wanna keep this garbage up, we'll start talking about some Paintsville kids that Matney has been trying to get for years. One in particular who couldn't even play outside with his buddies with Jim driving by and stopping to "talk" to him about playing at JC

I always thought when a parent or a kid approached a coach from another school about playing for them that the coach was supposed to refer the parent to the schools principle. He sure as heck isn't supposed to leave him his "business card" with his cell phone number, private email address, his own twitter handle as well as the football twitter handle. Also on the card was his instagram account info and his facebook page.

So you're admitting that the coach actually gave the parent his card that is only intended for college coaches? Why, in your opinion would he do that? Do you actually think everyone's that stupid on here to believe that hog wash?
And another thing you've been hinting around for years now about our coach talking to a certain player from Paintsville. Here's a newsflash for you Einstein they're neighbors and the dad use to be one of his assistants. Year after year you keep bringing up one player that was supposedly talked to while Paintsville has well over twenty players from Johnson County and surrounding school systems. I wonder how many of those out of district transfers are actually paying tuition?

Son I believe that Cherico/Kinner miracle two ball love potion that you're drinking is beginning to make you look more silly by the post. What's the title on your card Director of message board hog wash?

[Blackcat2001]

I can say that they have definitely tried to pick up a couple of our players. And I think a couple of them will end up going there in high school.

[Redneck]

What does it matter if they are neighbors, he's not the only neighborhood kid that was approached. One of our coaches can't give his card to one of his own relatives, but Jim can approach kids in his neighborhood. Sounds good to me. How many transfers has JC had since the Matney area begun?

[Peaches]

BYLAW 16. RECRUITMENT/UNDUE INFLUENCE
Sec. 1) PROVISIONS ON RECRUITING/UNDUE INFLUENCE a) A pupil (domestic or foreign) at any grade level shall not be recruited to a member school of the KHSAA for the purpose of participating in athletics. Recruiting is defined as an act, on behalf of, or for the benefit of, a school, including impermissible contact, which attempts to influence a student to transfer to a member school for the purpose of participating in athletics, including the offer of improper benefits not available to all members of the student body.
b) It shall also be defined as recruiting to provide improper benefits not available to all members of the student body to an already enrolled student to influence that student to remain at a member school including recruitment under the guise of academics.
c) An athletic coach or any other member of the school staff or team member (including parents and boosters) shall not influence a student even if the student, his or her parents or any intermediary from another school makes the initial contact. In this situation, a coach or staff member (paid or unpaid) should immediately refer the person(s) to the school principal.
d) Influencing a student shall include the promise or instilling the expectation of an athletic advantage, playing time, employment of the student or the student’s parents or relatives, housing for the student or the student’s parents, scholarships or financial aid for which other members of the student body are not generally eligible, providing other improper benefits, making improper contacts or any other material or athletic reward for which other members of the student body are not generally eligible.
e) A school official utilizing an intermediary including a peer, another school employee, a student, a parent or a citizen, for the purpose of recruiting a student-athlete shall be in noncompliance.
Sec. 2) PENALTY
a) Any representative of a member school knowingly allowing the recruitment of a student for the purpose of participating in athletics or who should have known of this recruitment shall be guilty of willful neglect of duty, misconduct, or breach of contract.
b) This shall apply not only to coaches, but also to personnel supervising coaches, including an athletic director, an assistant principal, a principal, an assistant superintendent, a superintendent or a school board member.
c) This requirement shall also apply to students or their parents.
Specific examples of impermissible contact with students include:
(2) Contact with any student not enrolled in the schools’ defined feeder pattern concerning potential enrollment at the school which is initiated by a coach or any others with a connection to the athletic program;
(3) Contact with any student not enrolled in the schools’ defined feeder pattern by individuals (including the parent of a current player) who might be interested in the school’s athletic program that attempts to influence a student or his/ her parents;
(6) High school exhibit and/or promotion space or materials specific to the schools’ athletic program or a specific athletic team including mass mailings or communication (electronic or otherwise) that cannot be restricted to exclude non-feeder pattern individuals;
(7) School representatives attending grade school, junior high or middle school games for the purpose of evaluating specific student-athletes not enrolled in the schools’ defined feeder pattern or for the purpose of promoting the member school’s athletic program or at a time when not permitted by Bylaw 23;
(8) Contact prior to, during, or after practices, scrimmages or contests at elementary schools, middle and junior high schools except where there is the same defined feeder pattern involving the schools;
(9) Requesting students, parents, boosters or alumni from a school to discuss the merits of a school’s athletic program with a prospective student-athlete not enrolled in the schools’ defined feeder pattern or member of his/her family;
(11) Entering into discussions or offers of financial aid with a student not enrolled in the schools’ defined feeder pattern, or the student’s family, whether or not that aid is available to the general student body;
(12) Contacting any prospective student-athlete not enrolled in the schools’ defined feeder pattern (at any grade level above, in or below grade 9) or his/her parents/family by phone, email, text, social media, fax, in person, by letter or by other means;

No special benefit may be given to student-athlete or prospective student-athletes (below grade 9, or grades 9-12) including:
(1) Money or any item of tangible benefit or other valuable consideration such as free or reduced tuition, room, board, textbooks, or clothing during the regular school year or summer school;
(2) Offer or acceptance of any benefit (financial or otherwise), or privilege not afforded to non-athletes;
(6) Offer or acceptance of help in securing a college athletic scholarship;

[anotherfootballnut]

Pretty simple .. One says the card was given to a kid , Paintsvlle people say the card was given to a parent, either one is a violation and should be addressed

[Don Carlo]

What does it matter if they are neighbors, he's not the only neighborhood kid that was approached. One of our coaches can't give his card to one of his own relatives, but Jim can approach kids in his neighborhood. Sounds good to me. How many transfers has JC had since the Matney area begun?

Hmm so the story has changed to a relative of the coach receiving the card?
Well then Mr Director why would a relative of a Paintsville coach turn the card in so his school officials after being illegally contacted? Would the relative want his cousin or his cousins team to be in trouble?
JC has received some transfers since 2004 but I can guarantee you they don't have over twenty kids on their roster from other area school districts.

Stay tuned folks theirs much more to come on this one.

[TigerBlues]

^^^ Can't wait ! This is getting as good as Elisha Justice thread :flame:

[EKUAlum05]

Pretty simple .. One says the card was given to a kid , Paintsvlle people say the card was given to a parent, either one is a violation and should be addressed

Once again... I have to play Devil's Advocate so this isn't taken off the rails.... but giving a business card to either a player or parent is not a recruiting violation in itself and cannot be proven as such.

A business card, on it's own, is simply a way to reach a person. If handing out business cards is illegal then Lord help any coach who ever throws his card in the bucket at a restaurant to win a free meal.

What makes it a recruiting violation is what can be proven that goes along with the interaction.

If Coach ______ hands his business card to a local parent or student because they want to get advice on training and conditioning. NOT A VIOLATION

If Coach ___________ hands his card because they go to church together and want to organize a Bible Study. NOT A VIOLATION.

If Coach ____________ hands his card because he is asking them to transfer. THIS IS A VIOLATION.

In the case of the violation though it will be impossible to prove unless there is some other evidence to link the card to the act being accused. A text message, email, direct message, voice mail, etc... BUT THE CARD ALONE IS NOT PROOF UNTIL FURTHER EVIDENCE IS GIVEN

Now dont get me wrong or view this as covering up... we all know why this card was given most likely... but let's not think this is OJ's missing knife here.. it is simply a business card with someones personal story until more concrete evidence is provided.

[Blue blood]

I think that if JC spent as much time on their own team as they do worrying about what Paintsville is doing they might not have to worry about transfers.

[Iynalot]

Once again... I have to play Devil's Advocate so this isn't taken off the rails.... but giving a business card to either a player or parent is not a recruiting violation in itself and cannot be proven as such.

A business card, on it's own, is simply a way to reach a person. If handing out business cards is illegal then Lord help any coach who ever throws his card in the bucket at a restaurant to win a free meal.

What makes it a recruiting violation is what can be proven that goes along with the interaction.

If Coach ______ hands his business card to a local parent or student because they want to get advice on training and conditioning. NOT A VIOLATION

If Coach ___________ hands his card because they go to church together and want to organize a Bible Study. NOT A VIOLATION.

If Coach ____________ hands his card because he is asking them to transfer. THIS IS A VIOLATION.

In the case of the violation though it will be impossible to prove unless there is some other evidence to link the card to the act being accused. A text message, email, direct message, voice mail, etc... BUT THE CARD ALONE IS NOT PROOF UNTIL FURTHER EVIDENCE IS GIVEN

Now dont get me wrong or view this as covering up... we all know why this card was given most likely... but let's not think this is OJ's missing knife here.. it is simply a business card with someones personal story until more concrete evidence is provided.

Don't have a dog in this fight, but i'm not sure i read the rules the same way you do.

From the above post of the regs:

Specific examples of impermissible contact with students include:
(6) High school exhibit and/or promotion space or materials specific to the schools’ athletic program or a specific athletic team including mass mailings or communication (electronic or otherwise) that cannot be restricted to exclude non-feeder pattern individuals;

Clearly from the picture this is athletic specific material that was, according to the inside source, not restricted from non-feeder pattern individuals. The bigger point here is even if all this is proven to have taken place as alleged, what would it really effect. Are there any real consequences that the Paintsville program would face. Some kids would rather transfer for the promise of earlier playing time than to stay and try and earn it. As long as there are kids and parents who are looking for the path of least resistance you will have this type of stuff go on.

[EKUAlum05]

Don't have a dog in this fight, but i'm not sure i read the rules the same way you do.

From the above post of the regs:

Specific examples of impermissible contact with students include:
(6) High school exhibit and/or promotion space or materials specific to the schools’ athletic program or a specific athletic team including mass mailings or communication (electronic or otherwise) that cannot be restricted to exclude non-feeder pattern individuals;

Clearly from the picture this is athletic specific material that was, according to the inside source, not restricted from non-feeder pattern individuals. The bigger point here is even if all this is proven to have taken place as alleged, what would it really effect. Are there any real consequences that the Paintsville program would face. Some kids would rather transfer for the promise of earlier playing time than to stay and try and earn it. As long as there are kids and parents who are looking for the path of least resistance you will have this type of stuff go on.

It's a business card, on it's own it is not a form of school specific marketing material per se.

Once again, I am not by any means saying I don't think something fishy is happening. I most certainly do. But a business card is a very commonplace thing that most people have and give out freely regardless of the type of industry they are in.

I am saying this not to protect Paintsville, but protect coaches everywhere.

If simply posting a business card, something that I would say 75% of Head Coaches have, and wrapping a story without additional facts that can be proven is grounds for a school being accused of major violations... then who is to say that people cannot fabricate a story by simply getting their hands on a card from another coach?

Without further proof of impermissable contact the KHSAA would laugh this out of the room if it was brought on it's own as sole proof of recruiting. Now if the person with the card had a text message suggesting someone should come watch a practice or talk about playing time with the Head Coach... that is a Horse of a Different Color and suddenly the business card becomes evidence.

[FBfan4life]

@EKUAlum05, We get what you're saying and you have explained it well, but we all know what that business card was all about. We can articulate it this way or that way... But for most part, we all know what that particular coach intentions was.

[anotherfootballnut]

Biggest issue I have is , I know there are schools doing things the right way , using proper channels and are being denied by the state but it seems if you are sneaky or cut corners the state allows it . Either allow kids to move about without sitting out or out a stop to it all together .

[Copperhead13]

What does it matter if they are neighbors, he's not the only neighborhood kid that was approached. One of our coaches can't give his card to one of his own relatives, but Jim can approach kids in his neighborhood. Sounds good to me. How many transfers has JC had since the Matney area begun?

I understand your love for Paintsville Schools, but you are going to really sit there and compare the number of JC transfers to the number of transfers Paintsville gets from JC?!?!?! Really !!!!! It is every year Paintsville gets some of JC students. We in the County stopped asking ourselfs if any 8th graders are going, to now saying who is going. Bottomline is Paintsville NEEDS county kids to keep the doors open.
I am just glade Paintsville finally picked the wrong family or we would not have known all of this.

[jetpilot]

For the story can be proven then this is a major infraction

Unfortunately though all I see is a business card. Nothing wrong with what is in the image.

Now if there are emails, voicemails, text messages backing up the story then that is a whole new ballgame.

How is it a business card? Someone pointed out the guy is in the printing business. Nothing on there about his business. No sir, I've seen a million business cards and that is not a business card.

[TigerBlues]

:hilarious::hilarious::hilarious:

How is it a business card? Someone pointed out the guy is in the printing business. Nothing on there about his business. No sir, I've seen a million business cards and that is not a business card.

[FBfan4life]

@TigerBlues, how is that Couch kid doing? Has he adapted to the program yet?

[TigerBlues]

@TigerBlues, how is that Couch kid doing? Has he adapted to the program yet?

He didn't make it down there, staying at Lex Catholic :flame:

[Redneck]

Hmm so the story has changed to a relative of the coach receiving the card?
Well then Mr Director why would a relative of a Paintsville coach turn the card in so his school officials after being illegally contacted? Would the relative want his cousin or his cousins team to be in trouble?
JC has received some transfers since 2004 but I can guarantee you they don't have over twenty kids on their roster from other area school districts.

Stay tuned folks theirs much more to come on this one.

Nobody changed their story. I clearly states that I knew who's card it was and who it was given to, and that it was nothing like what Bellefonte was implicating.

[Redneck]

I understand your love for Paintsville Schools, but you are going to really sit there and compare the number of JC transfers to the number of transfers Paintsville gets from JC?!?!?! Really !!!!! It is every year Paintsville gets some of JC students. We in the County stopped asking ourselfs if any 8th graders are going, to now saying who is going. Bottomline is Paintsville NEEDS county kids to keep the doors open.
I am just glade Paintsville finally picked the wrong family or we would not have known all of this.

I do love my Alma mater, but I also support JC athletics (when we aren't playing eachother). Just because I'm not a fan of the coach over there, that doesn't mean I don't wanna see the kids succeed.

[Don Carlo]

Nobody changed their story. I clearly states that I knew who's card it was and who it was given to, and that it was nothing like what Bellefonte was implicating.

You did change your story. In your second post in this thread you stated that the "business card" was given to a parent that approached the coach. In your third post you were wondering why the coach can't give his " business card" to one of his relatives. So which is it? Was the card given to a parent or a relative?

[Don Carlo]

How is it a business card? Someone pointed out the guy is in the printing business. Nothing on there about his business. No sir, I've seen a million business cards and that is not a business card.

You hit the nail on the head JP.

[Ballbuster]

I bet some of the Prestonsburg people have few cards too.

[Paula Dean]

This is really funny! The school across the creek is quick to make accusations but have no problem offering parents paid coaching jobs to transfer their children to that school. But they love to play the victim of "recruiting schemes" when kids leave their school!

The last two kids to transfer in were because one had a father that took over as the Head Girls Coach and the other father got transferred from his postal position to the Paintsville area. Kids??? There are more transfers on that team then what they had on the roster from 2011-2012.

[Paula Dean]

A business card, on it's own, is simply a way to reach a person. If handing out business cards is illegal then Lord help any coach who ever throws his card in the bucket at a restaurant to win a free meal.

100% right the old man that stays outside of Speedway had one just like it. Said he pulled it off the help wanted sign in the Wal-Mart lobby.

[TigerBlues]

This is awesome entertainment, maybe EKU/ALTCAT can get the idiot "the guru" involved in this more :hilarious: this is shaping up to be one of the best :flame:

[Redneck]

You did change your story. In your second post in this thread you stated that the "business card" was given to a parent that approached the coach. In your third post you were wondering why the coach can't give his " business card" to one of his relatives. So which is it? Was the card given to a parent or a relative?

The parent is a relative. Like I said in the first post, it's nothing like what is being portrayed.

[TigerBlues]

I gave my business card to JetPilot and he said unless I could promise him a D1 scholarship I would have to buy Avion tequila if he didn't make it. And that's the truth :ChairHit:

[Redneck]

What does owning a printing company have to do with anything? Anybody can make their own business cards if they have a computer and a printer, lol.