[geauxtigers75]

Im sick of the rapist comments. Did you watch him rape anyone? Is there any evidence that proves beyond doubt he did? The FACT is you weren't there, you dont know. You simply DONT know. Unless you were there to witness it and you KNOW he raped her, then shut up. Just shut up. Plain and simple. Innocent until PROVEN guilty. To condemn someone for somehting you know nothing about is a true sign of stupidity. This goes for all situations not just this one. You don't hate "Bob" for being a pot smoker unless you know he really smokes pot.

Why would anyone hate someone just for smoking pot? Smoking pot and rape is a terrible comparison IMO. Apparently, no one could 'prove' OJ Simpson killed his wife, but people hate him. It's a side effect of being in the spotlight 24/7.

[K_Mac]

LOL, a true sign of stupidity is to NOT read between the lines. A guy gives a PUBLIC apology to a girl, as part of his SETTLEMENT, and that we do know happened!

Nope, I have zero proof that he did rape anyone, but you have zero proof that he didn't. So, will NOT shut-up and will base my opinion what he did do, and that is not allow this to have the truth be brought out in the courts. He was accused of rape, something pretty damn serious to your reputation. Something that you would want proven to be untrue. But, knowing that he did not wish to take the chance that he would be proven not-guilty, then I will base my opinion on what we know he did do!

Before I respond Id first like to let you know SD, I respect your opinions as well as others and I dont let my emotions get in the way of my debates and nothing I say need to be taken personal my friend.


Now, with that being said, If I was to accuse you of being a child murdering, wife beating, meth smoking, KKK member is it correct to say your okay with everyone hating you based on my accusations but no proof?? Furthermore, yes it was settled out of court and he appologized, but he didnt appologize for raping her, and you know full well celebs get accused of rape all the time for the money! White girl wanted to get rich off Kobe, and im sure Kobe did have sex with her, therefore she had his DNA and no witnesses. Perfect set up, why risk losing his career when he could just get rid of her by giving her a little money?

[K_Mac]

Why would anyone hate someone just for smoking pot? Smoking pot and rape is a terrible comparison IMO. Apparently, no one could 'prove' OJ Simpson killed his wife, but people hate him. It's a side effect of being in the spotlight 24/7.

Are you telling me theres never been a time in your life sir where you were accused of something you didnt do? Even if it was gradeschool and not somehting as serious as rape, Im sure you dont like people accusing you with no proof. Thats childish.

[Hoot Gibson]

LOL, a true sign of stupidity is to NOT read between the lines. A guy gives a PUBLIC apology to a girl, as part of his SETTLEMENT, and that we do know happened!

Nope, I have zero proof that he did rape anyone, but you have zero proof that he didn't. So, will NOT shut-up and will base my opinion what he did do, and that is not allow this to have the truth be brought out in the courts. He was accused of rape, something pretty damn serious to your reputation. Something that you would want proven to be untrue. But, knowing that he did not wish to take the chance that he would be proven not-guilty, then I will base my opinion on what we know he did do!

:Thumbs: In the best case, Kobe was a cheater who ended up having to bribe his wife with a huge diamond to stand in public, by his side, humiliated, while he denied the rape allegation. As for considering Kobe "innocent until proven guilty," that is a legal standard that applies to criminal courts and not to the court of public opinion.

I have no idea whether he was guilty of rape but Kobe obviously feared that some very damaging information would be made public if the case went to trial. Paying hush money to his alleged victim does prove that because, like you said, rape is a very serious accusation and an innocent man with nothing to hide would be eager to clear his good name in court.

[Stardust]

Before I respond Id first like to let you know SD, I respect your opinions as well as others and I dont let my emotions get in the way of my debates and nothing I say need to be taken personal my friend.


Now, with that being said, If I was to accuse you of being a child murdering, wife beating, meth smoking, KKK member is it correct to say your okay with everyone hating you based on my accusations but no proof?? Furthermore, yes it was settled out of court and he appologized, but he didnt appologize for raping her, and you know full well celebs get accused of rape all the time for the money! White girl wanted to get rich off Kobe, and im sure Kobe did have sex with her, therefore she had his DNA and no witnesses. Perfect set up, why risk losing his career when he could just get rid of her by giving her a little money?

K_Mac, celebs get accused all the time and courts throw those cases out all the time because there is no proof. The courts have been successful in killing cases before they ever go to court. Thus, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that a celebrity would not allow the courts to at least go through that phase before ever settling? Would you disagree with that? It's not a debate on whether he did or didn't, but it is a very fair debate that there is probably more to this story than the courts were ever privileged to rule on - Fair assumption?

[K_Mac]

Why would anyone hate someone just for smoking pot? Smoking pot and rape is a terrible comparison IMO. Apparently, no one could 'prove' OJ Simpson killed his wife, but people hate him. It's a side effect of being in the spotlight 24/7.

To answer that question: just an anology sir. Same as my child murdering, wife beating, meth smoking, KKK member anology in my comment above. I think its safe to say a child murdering, wife beating, meth smoking, KKK member accusation is a bit more serious then rape.

[K_Mac]

K_Mac, celebs get accused all the time and courts throw those cases out all the time because there is no proof. The courts have been successful in killing cases before they ever go to court. Thus, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that a celebrity would not allow the courts to at least go through that phase before ever settling? Would you disagree with that? It's not a debate on whether he did or didn't, but it is a very fair debate that there is probably more to this story than the courts were ever privileged to rule on - Fair assumption?

Again this is speculation and opinion. I doubt Kobe has to rape girls my friend. The # of girls wearing Kobe jerseys and chanting his name, just pick one and take her home is all he has to do sir. I 100% believe he would never have to rape a girl to get laid. Hell Im not rich, famous, or an athlete and I have no problem getting laid, so I know he shouldnt.

[K_Mac]

:Thumbs: In the best case, Kobe was a cheater who ended up having to bribe his wife with a huge diamond to stand in public, by his side, humiliated, while he denied the rape allegation. As for considering Kobe "innocent until proven guilty," that is a legal standard that applies to criminal courts and not to the court of public opinion.

I have no idea whether he was guilty of rape but Kobe obviously feared that some very damaging information would be made public if the case went to trial. Paying hush money to his alleged victim does prove that because, like you said, rape is a very serious accusation and an innocent man with nothing to hide would be eager to clear his good name in court.

He just wanted to put an end to everything by settling instead of dragging him, and his family through trial after trial and making a long-going public affair of his life (like with michael jackson) so instead he was like here have some money and leave me the hell alone. This doesnt point to innocence or guilt.

Now the ring was ridiculous and he was at the least a cheater. I agree with that. Hate him for being a cheater, fine. Dont say its because hes a rapist because he isnt.

[Stardust]

:Thumbs: In the best case, Kobe was a cheater who ended up having to bribe his wife with a huge diamond to stand in public, by his side, humiliated, while he denied the rape allegation. As for considering Kobe "innocent until proven guilty," that is a legal standard that applies to criminal courts and not to the court of public opinion.

I have no idea whether he was guilty of rape but Kobe obviously feared that some very damaging information would be made public if the case went to trial. Paying hush money to his alleged victim does prove that because, like you said, rape is a very serious accusation and an innocent man with nothing to hide would be eager to clear his good name in court.

Hoot, this sums up the point I was trying to make. To deny that there is more to the story than any of us will ever know is fair to leave open for debates such as this.

I have felt so confident that Barry Bonds is a user of steroids that I would bet my house on it. BUT - the courts did their due diligence, and the courts (prosecutor) deemed that the proof was not there. They gave Bonds every chance in the world to settle and plead something less than what he was being charged for, but Bonds felt so confident in his case that he did not back down. I would think someone charged of such a heinous crime would want no doubts left in the court of public appeals. What will we learn in Vanessa Bryant's wife's tell all Biography after "hush" period that will be imposed in her divorce settlement will likely give us the details

[Hoot Gibson]

He just wanted to put an end to everything by settling instead of dragging him, and his family through trial after trial and making a long-going public affair of his life (like with michael jackson) so instead he was like here have some money and leave me the hell alone. This doesnt point to innocence or guilt.

Now the ring was ridiculous and he was at the least a cheater. I agree with that. Hate him for being a cheater, fine. Dont say its because hes a rapist because he isnt.

I never said that he is a rapist but I did say that if he was innocent and had nothing to hide, he would not have paid his accuser to hush. The cost of the settlement was staggering when you factor in the endorsements that Kobe lost.

Kobe apparently could not afford to risk of discovery, depositions, and a public testimony. He and his lawyers weighed the cost of fighting the allegations and decided to cut their losses and leave the stain on his reputation unwashed.

I doubt that Kobe was guilty of rape but I do believe that he is a pretty sleazy character who was nothing like his formerly squeaky clean image - and I think that there is plenty of evidence from which to draw that conclusion.

[Hoot Gibson]

Hoot, this sums up the point I was trying to make. To deny that there is more to the story than any of us will ever know is fair to leave open for debates such as this.

I have felt so confident that Barry Bonds is a user of steroids that I would bet my house on it. BUT - the courts did their due diligence, and the courts (prosecutor) deemed that the proof was not there. They gave Bonds every chance in the world to settle and plead something less than what he was being charged for, but Bonds felt so confident in his case that he did not back down. I would think someone charged of such a heinous crime would want no doubts left in the court of public appeals. What will we learn in Vanessa Bryant's wife's tell all Biography after "hush" period that will be imposed in her divorce settlement will likely give us the details

:Thumbs: I agree on all counts, Dusty, but by the time the truth finally comes out, hardly anybody will be interested in hearing dirty laundry on a has-been basketball player. He has bought himself some time.

[geauxtigers75]

Are you telling me theres never been a time in your life sir where you were accused of something you didnt do? Even if it was gradeschool and not somehting as serious as rape, Im sure you dont like people accusing you with no proof. Thats childish.

What Dusty said is about as good of a response as it gets and that's what i'm going to go with. Whether the man did it or not, he was at the very least disloyal to his wife and had to pay out a rather large chunk of change over something that he could have very easily avoided.

To answer that question: just an anology sir. Same as my child murdering, wife beating, meth smoking, KKK member anology in my comment above. I think its safe to say a child murdering, wife beating, meth smoking, KKK member accusation is a bit more serious then rape.

Alright, I was hoping you didn't put them on the same plane, thanks for the clarification.

[Wildcatk23]

Kobe's averages in the last 2 finals appearances

30.1 ppg 6.4 rbs 5.9 asts

Stats don't indicate Kobe plays at a low level during the finals.
It looks to me like he's killing it.

Well when u shoots 15 free throws and go 6-25 that means your just shooting your arm off while your big man clean up the glass.

And since where only counting his last 2 finals we can just say he has 2 championships correct?

[K_Mac]

I never said that he is a rapist but I did say that if he was innocent and had nothing to hide, he would not have paid his accuser to hush. The cost of the settlement was staggering when you factor in the endorsements that Kobe lost.

Kobe apparently could not afford to risk of discovery, depositions, and a public testimony. He and his lawyers weighed the cost of fighting the allegations and decided to cut their losses and leave the stain on his reputation unwashed.

I doubt that Kobe was guilty of rape but I do believe that he is a pretty sleazy character who was nothing like his formerly squeaky clean image - and I think that there is plenty of evidence from which to draw that conclusion.

See sir, I never said you couldnt hate him for being sleazy or a cheater or cocky or any of those things. Those are perfectly fine. I simply wanted to show that hating him because he is a rapist is an incorrect and ignorant statement. Say he is a cheater, ball-hog, smart-ass, whatever. I just want people to post things they can back-up with some kind of fact or legit reason. The thread is legit reasons to hate Kobe and I was simply here to clarify "He is a rapist" is a retarded, non-legit, ignorant reason.

[K_Mac]

What Dusty said is about as good of a response as it gets and that's what i'm going to go with. Whether the man did it or not, he was at the very least disloyal to his wife and had to pay out a rather large chunk of change over something that he could have very easily avoided.




Alright, I was hoping you didn't put them on the same plane, thanks for the clarification.

Absolutely not, personally since the topic was brought up, I dont have a problem with anyone who does drugs or drinks AS LONG AS there isnt a kid involved being exposed to it, neglected because of it, or anyone getting robbed and harmed to support their habit. What someone wants to do to their body is no business of mine or anyone elses unless its hurting someone else because they are neglecting a child or stealing from others to buy the stuff. And I think thats a fair way of looking at it, dont you?

[RunItUpTheGut]

Im sick of the rapist comments. Did you watch him rape anyone? Is there any evidence that proves beyond doubt he did? The FACT is you weren't there, you dont know. You simply DONT know. Unless you were there to witness it and you KNOW he raped her, then shut up. Just shut up. Plain and simple. Innocent until PROVEN guilty. To condemn someone for somehting you know nothing about is a true sign of stupidity. This goes for all situations not just this one. You don't hate "Bob" for being a pot smoker unless you know he really smokes pot.

You mad bro? lol

Sorry your idol is a rapist.

And to be clear your comment about kobe being Jesus is much farther from the truth than him being a rapist, because as we all know, thats true.

[RunItUpTheGut]

:Thumbs: In the best case, Kobe was a cheater who ended up having to bribe his wife with a huge diamond to stand in public, by his side, humiliated, while he denied the rape allegation. As for considering Kobe "innocent until proven guilty," that is a legal standard that applies to criminal courts and not to the court of public opinion.

I have no idea whether he was guilty of rape but Kobe obviously feared that some very damaging information would be made public if the case went to trial. Paying hush money to his alleged victim does prove that because, like you said, rape is a very serious accusation and an innocent man with nothing to hide would be eager to clear his good name in court.

And now that huge diamond, along with half his money and houses are all hers.
lol

[vundy33]

I don't think Kobe raped that girl...I think it happened exactly the way he said it happened. Just some bitch looking to get some money..

[K_Mac]

You mad bro? lol

Sorry your idol is a rapist.

And to be clear your comment about kobe being Jesus is much farther from the truth than him being a rapist, because as we all know, thats true.

Naw bro. lol. As I stated earlier my emotions dont come into play with debates. I can debate anything from sports to politics to religion without getting mad at someone elses opinion. Fact is everyone has their opinion and no matter how much i disagree its their right to have that opinion. You wont ever see me get mad about something like this. Might catch me on a bad day and my comments be a bit more harsh then normal, but thats about it.

And to be clear, I kid when I say Kobe is jesus because I know how much most people on here hate Kobe. And for the record the bolded statement couldnt be farther off. My father is my idol, my hero, and the only person I will ever look up to in the sense of thats who I want to be when I grow up. And sir, he isn't a rapist. Im going to assume you arent an idiot and you were attempting to start something with that comment so I wont re-start my reasoning has to why he isn't.

[K_Mac]

I don't think Kobe raped that girl...I think it happened exactly the way he said it happened. Just some bitch looking to get some money..

Agreed.

[zaga_fan]

Well when u shoots 15 free throws and go 6-25 that means your just shooting your arm off while your big man clean up the glass.

And since where only counting his last 2 finals we can just say he has 2 championships correct?

Not exactly.
But when you use terms like "always" it gives the impression that he has never had a finals where he played at a high-level.
So to thwart your argument I would technically just have to show one finals appearance where Kobe played at a high level. I went ahead and doubled that just to remove all doubt.

But for good measure.

Kobe Bryant
FGM-FGA
NBA Finals

2010
Game 1 - 10-22
Game 2 - 8-20
Game 3 - 10-29
Game 4 - 10-22
Game 5 - 13-27
Game 6 - 9-19
Game 7 - 6-24
66-163

2009
Game 1 - 16-34
Game 2 - 10-22
Game 3 - 11-25
Game 4 - 11-31
Game 5 - 10-23
Total 58-135

2008
Game 1 - 9-26
Game 2 - 11-23
Game 3 - 12-20
Game 4 - 6-19
Game 5 - 8-21
Game 6 - 7-22
Total 53-131


I could only find composite stats for these
2004 - 43-113 22.6 pts 2.8 rbs 4.8 asts
2002 - 36-70 26.8 pts 5.8 rbs 5.3 asts
2001 - 44-106 24.6 pts 7.8 rbs 5.8 asts
2000 - 33-90 15.6 pts 4.6 rbs 4.2 asts

Let's total them up (I'll make sure to use a calculator)
66-163
58-135
53-131
43-113
36-70
44-106
33-90
Total Finals FGM-FGA
333-808(41.2%)

So to sum this up.
41.2% may not be the highest clip anyone has ever shot in the finals.
But it is by no means awful. It is in no means bad. And anyone, unless your Michael Jordan, would love to say you've been to the Finals 7 times, started every game, led your team in points the majority of the time, and shot 41.2% from the field.

But the point I'm trying to make is that Kobe does not show up, shoot his arm up, go 6-22 from the field, go to the FT line, and let everyone else do the work for him.
I found 2 games in his entire career in the finals where he shot around that percentile.
6-22 from the field is 27.2%....
If Kobe did that every night he wouldn't be starting in the NBA right now.
If you what to take a couple games out of a guys finals resume that consists of 7 trips to the finals and use that to make an argument about him....
please make sure they are a clear representation of what he really brings to the table on a regular basis.

Keep em comin'
I'm unemployed now.
I got all day to bust your balls.

[WALL2WALL]

not exactly.
But when you use terms like "always" it gives the impression that he has never had a finals where he played at a high-level.
So to thwart your argument i would technically just have to show one finals appearance where kobe played at a high level. I went ahead and doubled that just to remove all doubt.

But for good measure.

Kobe bryant
fgm-fga
nba finals

2010
game 1 - 10-22
game 2 - 8-20
game 3 - 10-29
game 4 - 10-22
game 5 - 13-27
game 6 - 9-19
game 7 - 6-24
66-163

2009
game 1 - 16-34
game 2 - 10-22
game 3 - 11-25
game 4 - 11-31
game 5 - 10-23
total 58-135

2008
game 1 - 9-26
game 2 - 11-23
game 3 - 12-20
game 4 - 6-19
game 5 - 8-21
game 6 - 7-22
total 53-131


i could only find composite stats for these
2004 - 43-113 22.6 pts 2.8 rbs 4.8 asts
2002 - 36-70 26.8 pts 5.8 rbs 5.3 asts
2001 - 44-106 24.6 pts 7.8 rbs 5.8 asts
2000 - 33-90 15.6 pts 4.6 rbs 4.2 asts

let's total them up (i'll make sure to use a calculator)
66-163
58-135
53-131
43-113
36-70
44-106
33-90
total finals fgm-fga
333-808(41.2%)

so to sum this up.
41.2% may not be the highest clip anyone has ever shot in the finals.
But it is by no means awful. It is in no means bad. And anyone, unless your michael jordan, would love to say you've been to the finals 7 times, started every game, led your team in points the majority of the time, and shot 41.2% from the field.

But the point i'm trying to make is that kobe does not show up, shoot his arm up, go 6-22 from the field, go to the ft line, and let everyone else do the work for him.
I found 2 games in his entire career in the finals where he shot around that percentile.
6-22 from the field is 27.2%....
If kobe did that every night he wouldn't be starting in the nba right now.
If you what to take a couple games out of a guys finals resume that consists of 7 trips to the finals and use that to make an argument about him....
Please make sure they are a clear representation of what he really brings to the table on a regular basis.

Keep em comin'
i'm unemployed now.
I got all day to bust your balls.

boom!!!!!

[WALL2WALL]

2010 nba finals
game 1 - 30 pts 7 rebs 6 asts
game 2 - 21 pts 6 rbs 5 asts
game 3 - 29 pts 4 rbs 7 asts
game 4 - 33 pts 2 rbs 6 asts
game 5 - 38 pts 4 rbs 5 asts
game 6 - 26 pts 11 rbs 3 asts
game 7 - 23 pts 15 rbs 2 asts

2009 nba finals
game 1 - 40 pts 8 rbs 8 asts
game 2 - 29 pts 4 rbs 8 asts
game 3 - 31 pts 3 rbs 8 asts
game 4 - 32 pts 7 rbs 8 asts
game 5 - 30 pts 6 rbs 5 asts

boom!!!!!!!

[WALL2WALL]

Kobe's averages in the last 2 finals appearances

30.1 ppg 6.4 rbs 5.9 asts

Stats don't indicate Kobe plays at a low level during the finals.
It looks to me like he's killing it.

boom!!!!!!!

[WALL2WALL]

Kobe is a top 10 player to ever play, why folks hate on him I do not know. Arrogant......please!!!! When you know your good, you have to play with his attitude. Lebron ain't got no better attitude.

[K_Mac]

Kobe is a top 10 player to ever play, why folks hate on him I do not know. Arrogant......please!!!! When you know your good, you have to play with his attitude. Lebron ain't got no better attitude.

If anything his attitude is better then Lebrons. Kobe doesn't dance on the floor or make fun of sick players.

[vundy33]

lol..you can't hate on Lebron for that, that's just dumb.

I agree you need a killer attitude to win, but in my opinion, Kobe goes over the top with the asshole part of it.

[judgementday]

Had he not put himself in that situation he would have never been accused of rape.

Kobe has talent, but class, that is something he doesn't have.

[chrisshort18@hotmail]

scew lebron im from clevland (MGK)

[zaga_fan]

Had he not put himself in that situation he would have never been accused of rape.

Kobe has talent, but class, that is something he doesn't have.

If we're going to look down on all athletes who aren't faithful to their wives....
let's go ahead and look down on all of them.

Magic Johnson caught aids from someone who wasn't his wife.
Michael Jordan fathered a child with another woman while he was married.

No one ever seems to bring that up when we talk about this stuff.