[Benchwarmer]

I believe it does nothing but promote violence and steroid use to the younger audience.

[Stardust]

^ MMA, NFL Football, Hockey - let's make sure we continue to add the rest as well. I just wanted to help you make it clear to all BW. I believe you are really onto something though, and I believe that I am starting to come to see things your way. I am about to give up my Prefessional Wrestling Fan card

[Benchwarmer]

^ MMA, NFL Football, Hockey - let's make sure we continue to add the rest as well. I just wanted to help you make it clear to all BW. I believe you are really onto something though, and I believe that I am starting to come to see things your way. I am about to give up my Prefessional Wrestling Fan card

I will follow your lead to the end of Earth.:theman::thumpsup::Wave::1::notworthy

[Aslan]

It's WWE not Wwe. Get it right mister.

[king360]

It's not worth watching anymore anyway.

[MVP2]

It's not worth watching anymore anyway.

I agree, me and you growing up watching it, there was nothing like wrestling but now its just TERRIBLE. I dont think someone could pay me to sit there and watch that crap to 2hrs on monday nights.

[Stardust]

I agree, me and you growing up watching it, there was nothing like wrestling but now its just TERRIBLE. I dont think someone could pay me to sit there and watch that crap to 2hrs on monday nights.

I have a love of the spectacle and storylines of Prefessional wrestling. But that genre is non-existent with WWE. WWE was on to something with the NEXUS angle, but it still was not the hook to get viewers back to every week watcing. As for in-ring product, I actually think TNA has done a better job of production qualtiy and believable matches.

I, everyone's Mark to professional wrestling, watch minimal of the product now. I am from the old-school generation, back when wrestling was still kayfabe. I was a regular watcher through Stone Cold's reign, but now don't watch much until January, the lead-up to WM.

Is today's wrestling worse, No, it's just different. If it was as bad as all of us think it is, then there is no way that it would still be leading Cable ratings week in and week out. Obviously, the product has changed, it may not be what we love, but it is loved by a new generation.

[king360]

I agree, me and you growing up watching it, there was nothing like wrestling but now its just TERRIBLE. I dont think someone could pay me to sit there and watch that crap to 2hrs on monday nights.

:Thumbs:

[Westside]

I tried to watch WWE again last night and couldn't. Santino Marella is the only wrestler on WWE I like now which is ironic because I just like him because he's so funny, not because of his wrestling. IMO TNA is much better.

[Stardust]

^ I liked last night. I loved the throwback edition of WWF. I thought they were creative and brought back a lot of the 80's style. It was pleasantly enjoyable

[Westside]

^ I liked last night. I loved the throwback edition of WWF. I thought they were creative and brought back a lot of the 80's style. It was pleasantly enjoyable

Even with the throwback stuff I didn't enjoy it.

[Westside]

By the way Stardust, I'm still thinking. In the mean time ponder on this. :biggrin:

[LWC]

I'm with ya Stardust. Last night was good.

We may agree on this but I am not sure. I do not believe that anyone will ever watch WWE again for the wrestling. It is just very difficult to sell a product that is "fake" against MMA/UFC that is real. I was a licensed indepent wrestler for years, you don't go through that if you don't love it. If I was a young boy again, I would still be drawn to WWE because of the larger-than-life people, the flash and flare and the promo/mic-work (I would use other terms but I want anyone that reads to understand)

I believe that the WWE is trying to appeal to those people: young boys, hormonal teens and women. The market is running fastly away from 30-50 year old men....and I mean fast. I doubt there will ever be another Ric Flair, Dusty Rhodes, Tito Santana, etc... and it saddens me. There are still some wrestlers that I firmly believe could be great wrestlers if that is what the company wanted to focus on. (R-Truth, Daniel Bryan, John Morrison, etc...) What the company wants is sexy, great-shape, ripped, athletes that can really work a mic and have cross-over-media appeal. Am I right or am I wrong?

Stardust, if you wanna make a company that features old school wrestling, bro, I am with ya

[Aslan]

^ I liked last night. I loved the throwback edition of WWF. I thought they were creative and brought back a lot of the 80's style. It was pleasantly enjoyable

I believe there's only one reason you liked last night :wink:

[SweetLemonade]

WWE has been ruined. I mean the nexus? what kind of story line is that? WAY TO PG NOW!!!!

WE WANT TABLES!!!!!

[Stardust]

I'm with ya Stardust. Last night was good.

We may agree on this but I am not sure. I do not believe that anyone will ever watch WWE again for the wrestling. It is just very difficult to sell a product that is "fake" against MMA/UFC that is real. I was a licensed indepent wrestler for years, you don't go through that if you don't love it. If I was a young boy again, I would still be drawn to WWE because of the larger-than-life people, the flash and flare and the promo/mic-work (I would use other terms but I want anyone that reads to understand)

I believe that the WWE is trying to appeal to those people: young boys, hormonal teens and women. The market is running fastly away from 30-50 year old men....and I mean fast. I doubt there will ever be another Ric Flair, Dusty Rhodes, Tito Santana, etc... and it saddens me. There are still some wrestlers that I firmly believe could be great wrestlers if that is what the company wanted to focus on. (R-Truth, Daniel Bryan, John Morrison, etc...) What the company wants is sexy, great-shape, ripped, athletes that can really work a mic and have cross-over-media appeal. Am I right or am I wrong?

Stardust, if you wanna make a company that features old school wrestling, bro, I am with ya

LWC, I get 100% what you are saying. I for one probably watch more MMA than I do WWE/TNA, but to me it's not because of the fighting. You are right, those of us who grew up with Wrestling in the 80's were Marks. We always knew it was fixed (not fake), but we always held out the bit of mystery about it. We were fans of Hulk Hogan and his "Saving the World from Villains", or Ric Flair who could wrestle a broomstick for 60 minutes and we believed every single minute of it was legit.

Then, wrestling was exposed in the mid 90's. McMahon telling the world that the outcomes were predetermined, as well as the internet giving us the full details of what was happening in the locker rooms should have developed the end of professional wrestling.

Instead, we went through the Stone Cold and Rock generation. We cheered either for WWE or WCW where combined, those two shows had more viewers on Monday night than the biggest show in the history of Monday Night, "Monday Night Football". It was the hottest thing in culture. People who were not wrestling fans wore wrestling t-Shirts. We went to see gawd awful movies that had the Rock, Stone Cold or Kane in them and we were making them the highest grossing films during their time in the theaters.

Then, the competition ended. WWE killed off WCW, and now there was no more drama, no more reason to challenge the quality of the shows that were being aired. No more reason to plunk down $40 per pay-per-view twice monthly.

Wrestling has become stale. I don't believe that wrestling is dead because the product is past it's prime. It's dead because we have no more reason to watch it. Let's face it, what the hottest TV programming around now? It's reality TV. Now we all know, there is no reality TV that is REAL. Thus, professional wrestling has been relaity TV ever since TV was created. The problem is that there is no more drama. The creativity in the writing is terrible.

Sweet Lemonade is probably closer to the fact than anything else. Benchwarmer started this by saying that WWE does nothing but promote Steroids, Drugs, and Violence. But I argue that I have been a fan for as long as I can remember. I have never ever hit anyone with a chair or through them through a table. I have never seen Steriods in my life. I have a 21 and 17 year-old. They have watched it with me since they were little, and they have not partaken in what they see on television from Wrestling, no more than they will after watching "The Expendables" movie, that is filled with steroid freaks being violent. WWE is no different than any other television show that is on.

The fact that wrestling is down is due to the lack of creativity. They are competing with creative television every single week, and they have not found the nitch to bring fans back. Good lord, why would someone watch "Jersey Shores" and not think everything in that show is better than wrestling for pure entertainment?

Wrestling has been on television longer than any other product. WWE's Monday Night Raw is the longest running weekly television show in History. Wrestling is not dead and it never will die. But when will it get back to being a cultural phenomenon? Not until they better their storylines, and it just may be with more Tables, Ladders, Chairs and skimpy outfits. But if they do not do better in creating the drama that makes the viewer want to tune in to next week to see the continuation of the story from this week, then we will continue to see this dry product.

[worker1]

I have said this before and I fully believe wrestling is suffering because it is not being ran by "wrestling people". I know Vince McMahon is a wrestling person, but his creative staff is not. WWE mainly uses soap opera type writers and TNA uses guys like Vince Russo who simply cannot write good wrestling storylines. None of these people know how to make entertaining wrestlers and entertaining storylines. The only thing they know how to do is to try to use shock value or to try to re-hash famous wrestling angles from the past. Wrestling, itself, is not dead, but creativity in wrestling is on life support and fading fast.

[Stardust]

I have said this before and I fully believe wrestling is suffering because it is not being ran by "wrestling people". I know Vince McMahon is a wrestling person, but his creative staff is not. WWE mainly uses soap opera type writers and TNA uses guys like Vince Russo who simply cannot write good wrestling storylines. None of these people know how to make entertaining wrestlers and entertaining storylines. The only thing they know how to do is to try to use shock value or to try to re-hash famous wrestling angles from the past. Wrestling, itself, is not dead, but creativity in wrestling is on life support and fading fast.

We are in agreement, but a concern is VKM. He took himself off the active roster, or talent, to go back behind the scenes. Yet, we have yet to see those stories that has taken hold like we had during the Hulkamania or Attitude era's. Have Vince lost touch? Was it a guy like Russo writing and Vince adjusting that made it work? Russo is an idiot, but he and Vince worked well! In the 80's it was Vince, Gorilla and Patterson. Does Vince not have that good creative sidekick?

[RadioVeteran]

It's WWE not Wwe. Get it right mister.

Are you old enough to remember WWF????:biggrin:

[Aslan]

Yep, I'm 21 Mister.

[Strikeout King]

Yep, I'm 21 Mister.

haha me and you the same age. but i remember back to the old WWF days. the Stone Cold, Rock, WCW era

[Stardust]

haha me and you the same age. but i remember back to the old WWF days. the Stone Cold, Rock, WCW era

:lmao: The Old WWF days were Bruno Sammartino, Pat Patterson, Superfly Snuka then Hulk Hogan, Roddy Piper, Greg Valentine, Macho Man Randy Savage...

[Westside]

:lmao: The Old WWF days were Bruno Sammartino, Pat Patterson, Superfly Snuka then Hulk Hogan, Roddy Piper, Greg Valentine, Macho Man Randy Savage...

Stardust, do you remember ICW when Macho Man wrestled there? They wrestled at the Betsy Layne Dome Gym. I was in 7th grade or there about. I went out into the parking lot and talked to Macho Man and asked him to sign a couple 8 x 10 pictures. He asked me to step back into the gym so he could sign them. I guess he did this so people would see him signing and more people would buy his pictures.

[Strikeout King]

:lmao: The Old WWF days were Bruno Sammartino, Pat Patterson, Superfly Snuka then Hulk Hogan, Roddy Piper, Greg Valentine, Macho Man Randy Savage...

wasn't talking about that far back

[worker1]

We are in agreement, but a concern is VKM. He took himself off the active roster, or talent, to go back behind the scenes. Yet, we have yet to see those stories that has taken hold like we had during the Hulkamania or Attitude era's. Have Vince lost touch? Was it a guy like Russo writing and Vince adjusting that made it work? Russo is an idiot, but he and Vince worked well! In the 80's it was Vince, Gorilla and Patterson. Does Vince not have that good creative sidekick?

If I had to venture a guess as to why Vince appears to have lost his touch, I would say that it is a combination of a lack of competition and the people that Vince runs his ideas by are afraid to criticize him for fear of their job. I would say he is surrounded by yes men who bend to his every notion.

[Stardust]

Stardust, do you remember ICW when Macho Man wrestled there? They wrestled at the Betsy Layne Dome Gym. I was in 7th grade or there about. I went out into the parking lot and talked to Macho Man and asked him to sign a couple 8 x 10 pictures. He asked me to step back into the gym so he could sign them. I guess he did this so people would see him signing and more people would buy his pictures.

I can't say that I saw Macho Man when he was with ICW, but this was the same timeframe when he was working with Memphis and Jarry Jarrett. His brawls with Jerry Lawler were way ahead of it's time in what we now know as "Hard Core" wrestling now.

[Stardust]

If I had to venture a guess as to why Vince appears to have lost his touch, I would say that it is a combination of a lack of competition and the people that Vince runs his ideas by are afraid to criticize him for fear of their job. I would say he is surrounded by yes men who bend to his every notion.

It's more a matter of he has no talent at all around him. Patterson was always a yes man. Gorilla not so much, he and Vince certainly had there disagreements, but I'd say VKM has always owned creative control. Unfortunately, I think it's a combination of talent and booking. Wrestling was always at it's best when you had a Heel and a Face leading the organization. Now, you have teams and they are trying to make every single match as important as the main event. Or dare I even say that there is such thing as a Main Event. Make Cena your face, Make Orton your heel, and then build solid stories that carries it. Let the mid card guys carry the show or "work", and for gawd sake, bring back the Jobber!

[Stardust]

Just finished watching last nights Raw, and wow, I was impressed. I have been asking for better booking, and last night WWE delivered. I loved the King of the Ring qualifying match-ups. Cena gave his farewell speech, which I had to laugh my butt off of all the Marks in the bleachers who were buying that he was indeed fired (and not that he was taking time off to film another movie). The Main Event kicked off with Orton getting jumped by Nexus, which was pretty typical stuff. But the run-in by Cena was very well timed and set-up Orton being able to make the miraculous comeback win. But what made this special was the Miz cashing in his "Money in the Bank". Of course, you knew he would win, but it was a pretty interesting match.

Bottom-line, Miz is your new champion. Though I do not think he is a great worker, he does a great job on the Mic. I will enjoy his time as champion, and the WWE was in desparate need of creating another Main Event guy.

It was also cool to see Miz after he won the title. Even though the title is meaningless and it's truly not an athletic accomplishment, it does mean that you have arrived. They do not put the title on guys that they do not feel can carry the burdon of either being loved by everyone or hated by everyone. Look for Miz to follow the same path as the Michaels, Rock, HHH, Cena and Orton. All of those guys were HATED by the fans. Then the fans turned the wrestler into a face without the wrestler doing anything different. Best expample was Stone Cold as he attempted throughout his days to make the fans HATE him, but they refused. I look for something sililar to happen with Miz. He's nothing special, does not have the Hulk Hogan body, the Ric Flair ring skills, or Roddy Pipers ability to talk, but he has charisma that the fans will gravitate to. He was legitimately touched, and at the end had legit tears in his eyes for being honored to follow in the footsteps of the greatest champions in wrestling history.

Congrats to Miz and the WWE for stepping out of their boring box!