[Navajo4life]

That's why when those pulling guards or tackles leave those spots to pull, you have to have a good D-Lineman to follow or flow through that gap that they vacated and go down the line, but not to fast to have the cut back contain just in case.

I think that we all agree that you have to have some GREAT D-Lineman to make any good defense work...

Look forward to more discussion on FOOTBALL, I love it.... Great POST and GREAT DISCUSSIONS

[P.C.Defense]

The only thing that I don't like using with a 3-5 is the time that you can give a QB to sit back in the pocket and just pick you apart if you're playing man-man.. It has been my philosophy to put as much pressure on the offense as possible and hopefully make them make mistakes... Am I going to get burn, yea I am, but hopefully over a course of the game, I will be able to force more mistakes out of the offense than what they can burn us with....

Where do you coach P.C.?

If you run a 3-5, run a cov.3. You can run alot of stunts that are hard to block from that stack look and play a cov.3 behind it:Thumbs: 3-5 cov.3. Now they can't sit back and kill you with the short stuff, You got 5 under. What they will do is try to kill you deep, You can't defend 4 verticles with 3 deep. But if they can't throw the deep ball your alright coverage wise. All a 3-5 is a 5-3 with your ends walked off to play the flats.

[P.C.Defense]

That's why when those pulling guards or tackles leave those spots to pull, you have to have a good D-Lineman to follow or flow through that gap that they vacated and go down the line, but not to fast to have the cut back contain just in case.

I think that we all agree that you have to have some GREAT D-Lineman to make any good defense work...

Look forward to more discussion on FOOTBALL, I love it.... Great POST and GREAT DISCUSSIONS

There not vacated, they're toe to toe and they block back on your backside.
If you run a 50, TE will cut your DT(shoeshine block). That toe to toe leaves no space at all for a run through.

[P.C.Defense]

If your playing a 3-5 cov.3, They're gonna throw deep on you, Your alright against the quick stuff. Myself, If your in a 3-5, I'm not worried about passing, I'm gonna run the ball!(lol)

[barrel]

Let's take just a quick look here at these different animals.
Trips is a wider 3 rec. set, Now there's alot of ways to align in Trips but let's look at the basic. 1 on 2 off(basic trips) Love to run your corner off and put your flat defender in a bind on which out rt. to defend. Do I defend the intermediate rt. or do I defend the shallow?( that is if your in cov.3)

Bunch, tight 3 rec. set(basic) no.2 rec. middle(front) still 1 on and 2 off.
Also loves to run off your corner, run the no.2 rec. to the curl on a whip read to tie up your backer and run that no. 3 on an arrow rt. to the sideline where they can get him the ball cause your corner is deep as the deepest.

They are different but I used that reference due them both being 3 rec. set formations. I am also using a cov.3 reference and just touched some of the basics. Alot of teams or even most that run a trips formation also run a bunch formation. A double tight Wishbone can't even be used in reference to the Double Wing, Completely different.

You referenced a Bucnh Attack Offense. Are you refering to Coverdale and Robinson's book by a similar title? If so it is not an offense. has a ton of information but they are both very clear it is about adapting some concepts into your current scheme.

X...........................T.G.C.G.T.................................Z
........Y.............A...........Q.......................................
.....................................T..........................................

Now that is think we both agree is standard trips. You can move the Y outside X or whatever. I am not looking for 1 on 2. I am looking for 3 on 2 with the 2 being the deep defender and the flat defender. Coverdale's Mesh concept attacks the flat defender in a manner similar to Y stick but with a Corner route from a compressed 2 position

....E.G.T.C.G.T...........................Z
.W..........Q................................
........F........................................
...............T................................

That is one example of a bunch. You can get that wing there in a number of ways. Switch or Scissors out of that is nasty.

The bunch also allows you to attack the single rec side of the field either by getting a 1 on 1 or by the fact your bunched/compressed rec can cross the field quickly.

There are wishbone teams that use DW blcoking schemes just like some power t teams. Murphy at Clovis East runs a double dive series which he calls Belly. Some people do not read Belly. Smith Center in KS has been running double dive for a long time and been very good. If you have to read it for it to be Belly than in the end it is one of those coaching terms that has different meanings.

Navajo4life: DW teams prevent DL from trailing the GT by having the TEs superman block. The dive straight down the LOS and cut/clip DL while in the free block zone.

In your 43 you are going to bring your FS out of the middle of the field for #3? Are you playing bump and run? Out of a 2 x 2 you would have your SS on one 2 and then either a LB or FS on backside 2?

[P.C.Defense]

Do any of the montain teams have enough of athletic talent to play straight up Man-Man coverage on the spread or trips formation?

I, personally, like running a 4-3 defense and have my best athletes playing straight up man-man coverage on spread formation. Now it leads open post routes, however, if your sending six and they are only blocking with five, then something has to give???

You could try doing what you do and run a cov.4 behind it:Thumbs:
Show that 0(man) and bail to cov.4.

[P.C.Defense]

I will agree, Matney, Chuke williams, read the Belly. You don't have to read it but it is most effective when you do. You can call it from the sideline but the qb reads the true belly, a coach has to call it from what the guy up top is telling him on how the defensive front is aligned. Read it, The D tackle pinches, I pull it, 2nd back get the ball, we turn out on the end or fold block up on the backer with the Y. (turn out on a 5 or 7). If tackle plays base , 1st back gets it.
All your good Belly teams in Ky., read the belly.

[barrel]

I agree that the good Belly teams in KY read it. Smith Center runs about 6 runs plays and all of it looks like Belly. They might have their QB check it at the line due to tech of the DL. Barta Bone is what they have been calling it for years. Smith Center is one of the best programs in KS.

On showing Cov 0 and than play Cov 4 on the snap how are you aligning the CBs? Are you showing a lose man Cov 0?

[gr80ne]

I agree with belly being the most difficult to stop. Especially out of the stack I.

[P.C.Defense]

You can.....I think on any spread team that takes what the D is giving them(pre-snap read) I like to disguise my coverage. They are going to take what you give them. They presnap read it, they know where they're going with it by how your coverage is aligned. Give them something else..

[P.C.Defense]

You can.....I think on any spread team that takes what the D is giving them(pre-snap read) I like to disguise my coverage. They are going to take what you give them. They presnap read it, they know where they're going with it by how your coverage is aligned. Give them something else..

You are right, If the defene is sitting in a 31 and the next down they come out in a 13(1 tech. to where your running it)Alignment will dictate it and you have to run it to the 3 side now. You can't read a 1 tech. if your running the Belly. I meant to quote Barrel(lol)

[barrel]

Are you guys really seeing QB's that are not reading coverage post snap?

Distance, eyes and leverage are simple ways to determine presnap what you are going to get. Post snap there are simple ways to see if you are still correct.

[Navajo4life]

PC Defense:

The way that we have done it in the past is to bring out FS out of the middle of the field and allow him to play a slot receiver, we go bump and run, we take our SS and move him to weak side of the field to act like another LB, with coverage of any back coming out of the backfield, however if they are spreading four wide, then we allow him to cover the other slot receiver and only blitz 1 or two of our LB and allow the 3rd to watch for the screen pass on the back in the backfield or follow him into the flats...

[P.C.Defense]

Are you guys really seeing QB's that are not reading coverage post snap?

Distance, eyes and leverage are simple ways to determine presnap what you are going to get. Post snap there are simple ways to see if you are still correct.

By our coverage alignment, You can dictate it. We are spread, I know the zonebusters. I know where you want to throw if I'm in cov.3, cov.2, cov.4, cov.1 or 0(man). I know qb reads so I have a pretty good idea where you want to throw the ball vs. the coverage I have called.

[P.C.Defense]

But some things I will not go into in detail.

[King Leonidas]

All the disguising is good, if you can do it. I would rather my kids line up in something and be good at running it. Not many teams can throw the ball consistently on any coverage. Mix up the coverages but be solid in what you are doing and have the kids feel confident in what they are doing. Against the spread if you want to be good, your front four has to get pressure!

[P.C.Defense]

PC Defense:

The way that we have done it in the past is to bring out FS out of the middle of the field and allow him to play a slot receiver, we go bump and run, we take our SS and move him to weak side of the field to act like another LB, with coverage of any back coming out of the backfield, however if they are spreading four wide, then we allow him to cover the other slot receiver and only blitz 1 or two of our LB and allow the 3rd to watch for the screen pass on the back in the backfield or follow him into the flats...

Why do you play your strong safety to the weak side? Not being critical but there is an easier adjustment.hh:

[P.C.Defense]

All the disguising is good, if you can do it. I would rather my kids line up in something and be good at running it. Not many teams can throw the ball consistently on any coverage. Mix up the coverages but be solid in what you are doing and have the kids feel confident in what they are doing. Against the spread if you want to be good, your front four has to get pressure!

I agree with this to an extent but unless your just flat out good, A good coach will beat you if you stay the same.

[phdballer]

I am a 4-3 guy through and through. I also like to give a cover 2 shell presnap everytime possible. What I like to do vs a spread team is take my nose out and play a 3-3-5. It keeps 5 or 6 in box depending on the coverage and because we stack those backers and play games with them teams have a harder times predetermining which of the 6 are coming. You can send 3 to 6 players on every down...I hate cover 3 but have to play it sometimes because it looks so much like man free presnap. I would much rather play 2 or 4. Man with 2 deep safeties is what we do most because we are good enough up front to play 5 in the box vs. a true spread.
If teams are going to run a power run game I found that giving them a guy inside the tackle and inside the TE and slant those guys gives them the most problem because it requires them to either single block or go to their pull game and our backers and safeties are way to good for teams to have real consistent success trying to pull the backside.
I have found that the 3wr 2 back offenses are the most difficult to defend because it requires the most discipline from my guys in our base package.

[King Leonidas]

A good coach isn't playing QB for you. You have to have good players to beat anything. I haven't seen to many good qbs in our area who can really beat you with there arm and be consistent throwing the ball.

[Navajo4life]

PC Defense: What would be the easier adjustment with the SS?

[P.C.Defense]

A good coach isn't playing QB for you. You have to have good players to beat anything. I haven't seen to many good qbs in our area who can really beat you with there arm and be consistent throwing the ball.

But a good coach is the one breaking down the film on you.(lol)

[Navajo4life]

phdballer: Would only having 3 down lineman give the offense an easier opportunity to sit back in the pocket and pick you apart? Or are you blitzing your LB as well and sending 6-7 at a time?

[P.C.Defense]

I am a 4-3 guy through and through. I also like to give a cover 2 shell presnap everytime possible. What I like to do vs a spread team is take my nose out and play a 3-3-5. It keeps 5 or 6 in box depending on the coverage and because we stack those backers and play games with them teams have a harder times predetermining which of the 6 are coming. You can send 3 to 6 players on every down...I hate cover 3 but have to play it sometimes because it looks so much like man free presnap. I would much rather play 2 or 4. Man with 2 deep safeties is what we do most because we are good enough up front to play 5 in the box vs. a true spread.
If teams are going to run a power run game I found that giving them a guy inside the tackle and inside the TE and slant those guys gives them the most problem because it requires them to either single block or go to their pull game and our backers and safeties are way to good for teams to have real consistent success trying to pull the backside.
I have found that the 3wr 2 back offenses are the most difficult to defend because it requires the most discipline from my guys in our base package.

I agree by playing a 7 tech.(inside i of T.E.) You force a down block most of the time by the Y and you take away off tackle. If your playing a 7, They can't run off-tackle there and it forces the power play to go wider(bounce). Good points there phd. If you play a 1 tech. weak, now you hurt that backside G's pull as well especially if your 1 is a penetrater.

[P.C.Defense]

PC Defense: What would be the easier adjustment with the SS?

Gotta run, p.m. me later:Thumbs:

[phdballer]

phdballer: Would only having 3 down lineman give the offense an easier opportunity to sit back in the pocket and pick you apart? Or are you blitzing your LB as well and sending 6-7 at a time?

We rarely ever just rush 3. We almost always send 4 sometimes 5. We do a good job of looking like we are going to send pressure with stems and things so that even if we do send 3 or 4 they don't know which 3 or 4 making the threat of pressure cause the QB to get the ball off in a hurry. If you bounce with your backers (moving them back and forth in and out of gaps) and send 5 the first 2 series then OC's lock it in their head that you are going to pressure all night and adjust to their quick game and when you don't send 5 you are sitting on the short stuff

[Navajo4life]

I undeterstand what you're saying, also do you guys ever give looks as if you're blitzing off the corners and dropping the DE into coverage? I find that works a great deal on 2nd and 5 or 3rd and 5-9, due to people loving to throw the quick slants

[phdballer]

I undeterstand what you're saying, also do you guys ever give looks as if you're blitzing off the corners and dropping the DE into coverage? I find that works a great deal on 2nd and 5 or 3rd and 5-9, due to people loving to throw the quick slants

Out of our base defense we do bring the corner. We however do not drop the defensive end. When the ball is on the hash we set our front to the field. We only bring the corner from the boundary. We play cover 4 to the field side and cover 2 to the boundary (Cover 6)which almost always ends up being the FS on #1 deep and the WLB on #1 if he is short. We slant the backside lineman and the corner is quick off the edge. We call it off if we get two skill positions players to the boundary.

[Pigskinman53]

If you're running a cover 3, so are you running a 5-3 or a walk up 8 (4-4)

What I've seen many teams start to do more of is run a 3-5-3 defense. This does a few things that can somewhat control the spread. First you can blitz a guy or two and keep zonw coverage behind them, and the offense in many cases have no clue where the 4th or 5th guy is coming from. It also leaves a man in the box un blocked if the offense decides to run the ball. Also you can play both corners back off the and walk your outside backers over the WR, so you want get high lowed or pick each other with crossing routes. And I also think its better to have 3 deep. And in a cover 2 you worry about the Four vertical routes

[i know, right?]

Double Wing