[Shady Grady]

In another thread, someone gave the definition of liberal as being an adjective meaning favorable to progress or reform. However as we all know, every word has several meanings. Another meaning of the word is "Given or giving freely". It can also be a noun meaning "A person who favors an economic theory of laissez-faire (careless attitude in the application of a policy implying a lack of consideration or thought) and self regulating markets. So being a liberal doesn't just mean favorable to reform, it also means giving away the farm.

[ComfortEagle]

In another thread, someone gave the definition of liberal as being an adjective meaning favorable to progress or reform. However as we all know, every word has several meanings. Another meaning of the word is "Given or giving freely". It can also be a noun meaning "A person who favors an economic theory of laissez-faire (careless attitude in the application of a policy implying a lack of consideration or thought) and self regulating markets. So being a liberal doesn't just mean favorable to reform, it also means giving away the farm.

That's your opinion.

[Shady Grady]

That's your opinion.

That is not my opinion. That came directly from Webster's dictionary.

[ComfortEagle]

Your statement was not 100% from Websters. You added some nice little lines, such as "it also means giving away the farm."

[Shady Grady]

"Giving away the farm" is a summary of what Webster said. I'm not saying Obama doesn't have some good ideas, he does. But you seem to be quite educated, so I'm sure you know down deep you would have to admit that when a liberal is in office, they tend to "give away the farm". Handouts become easier to obtain, I know it and you know it.

[ComfortEagle]

"Giving away the farm" is a summary of what Webster said. I'm not saying Obama doesn't have some good ideas, he does. But you seem to be quite educated, so I'm sure you know down deep you would have to admit that when a liberal is in office, they tend to "give away the farm". Handouts become easier to obtain, I know it and you know it.

The last time a Democrat was in the office this place was a lot better than it is now. It seems to me that people have less money now than they did under Clinton.

There may be more handouts given to people who need them, IDK, I can't see the future, but at least people who need them will be getting them instead of people who don't need them getting them, like we have going on now. Again, I would bring up my college financial aid example.

[Shady Grady]

I don't know how people can say things are so bad right now. Everywhere you go, people are spending money like there is no tomorrow. Yeah, the banking situation is bad, but go to any city and you will see people spending money. Where is it coming from? Go to UK football games, and see more people partying than ever. Go to New York, Chicago, any large city, and explain how things are so bad. But yeah, people might be better off, when the checks start rolling in.

[Shady Grady]

And Clinton? If you and I had lied to a grand jury, we would be in jail right now. He was as slick and as big a crook as there was. But I will give him credit, he did cover his tracks well. Everything that he was involved in, slid right off him.

[ComfortEagle]

I don't know how people can say things are so bad right now. Everywhere you go, people are spending money like there is no tomorrow. Yeah, the banking situation is bad, but go to any city and you will see people spending money. Where is it coming from? Go to UK football games, and see more people partying than ever. Go to New York, Chicago, any large city, and explain how things are so bad. But yeah, people might be better off, when the checks start rolling in.

I know people who want to go to college but cannot because they cannot get a student loan, they are working in the meantime, trying to save up what they can and hoping for some more financial aid to open up. But at the same time I know of people whose parents can afford to send them to college (and pay for it) but those same students are also obtaining financial aid from the government. Since their parents are footing the bill, what do those students use the financial aid on? Here are some things I have overheard: big screen TVs, car payments on a new car, new designer handbags, alcohol, massive kegger parties, and shopping sprees.

Also, there are a lot of people being laid off right now. The place I work has cut back on my hours. A guy I used to work with (worked in the same building, not for the same company) was laid off because they could no longer afford him. He was a car detailer for a Chevy dealership. He has been laid off, a customer service manager has been laid off, and 3 mechanics have been laid off. One of my friends has had 3 jobs in the past 6 months. One place was paying her minimum wage. Then she got a new job at a restaurant in Lexington. She quit that job because her paychecks were bad, the bank couldn't cash them. This place could not even afford to pay their employees for time they had worked. I know of radio station employees that have been laid off because of salary, and others who are still there that are not receiving any benefits such as health insurance. They are just working there so they can have a job in uncertain times.

I will agree that it is not horribly bad. People still drive cars, people still spend money on things they don't need like sports tickets, etc. but it's definitely worse than it was even a year ago. Retail stores are not hiring many, if any at all, holiday help. Kohl's in Richmond is not hiring holiday help because they cannot afford to pay extra people. They are giving all regular employees anywhere from 10-20 hours per week, supervisors at least get a guaranteed 40 hours per week.

It could be a lot worse, but it could also be a lot better.

[ComfortEagle]

And Clinton? If you and I had lied to a grand jury, we would be in jail right now. He was as slick and as big a crook as there was. But I will give him credit, he did cover his tracks well. Everything that he was involved in, slid right off him.

They didn't call him "slick Willy" for nothing.

[Shady Grady]

I know people who want to go to college but cannot because they cannot get a student loan, they are working in the meantime, trying to save up what they can and hoping for some more financial aid to open up. But at the same time I know of people whose parents can afford to send them to college (and pay for it) but those same students are also obtaining financial aid from the government. Since their parents are footing the bill, what do those students use the financial aid on? Here are some things I have overheard: big screen TVs, car payments on a new car, new designer handbags, alcohol, massive kegger parties, and shopping sprees.

Also, there are a lot of people being laid off right now. The place I work has cut back on my hours. A guy I used to work with (worked in the same building, not for the same company) was laid off because they could no longer afford him. He was a car detailer for a Chevy dealership. He has been laid off, a customer service manager has been laid off, and 3 mechanics have been laid off. One of my friends has had 3 jobs in the past 6 months. One place was paying her minimum wage. Then she got a new job at a restaurant in Lexington. She quit that job because her paychecks were bad, the bank couldn't cash them. This place could not even afford to pay their employees for time they had worked. I know of radio station employees that have been laid off because of salary, and others who are still there that are not receiving any benefits such as health insurance. They are just working there so they can have a job in uncertain times.

I will agree that it is not horribly bad. People still drive cars, people still spend money on things they don't need like sports tickets, etc. but it's definitely worse than it was even a year ago. Retail stores are not hiring many, if any at all, holiday help. Kohl's in Richmond is not hiring holiday help because they cannot afford to pay extra people. They are giving all regular employees anywhere from 10-20 hours per week, supervisors at least get a guaranteed 40 hours per week.

It could be a lot worse, but it could also be a lot better.

You have some good points. But sometimes, we have to blame ourselves. This country is now the product of greed. Myself included. We have become accustomed to the idea of having the best of things. The banking industry is in such bad shape because people overspent. Instead of buying a $100,000 house, they got a $250,000 house. The banks are also at fault for approving those loans. But this hasn't happened just under the Bush administration, this has been coming for a long time. And Bush did say eight years ago, we need to drill in the US, but tree huggers don't want that to happen. If we had started eight to ten years ago, we wouldn't be in this mess. Gov. Palin wants to drill more in Alaska, tree huggers don't want to. God put coal and oil in the ground for a reason, and that is for our use. But back on the subject of bad times: Have our huge credit card bills come from things we needed or things we just had to have? And yes, things aren't the best right now. I have a small business with 25 employees, and at times we struggle. But the last thing I need right now is higher taxes, or for the coal industry to fall apart. But as far as the college thing, there are enough grants for people to go to college if they cannot afford it. They just have to take the time to fill out the paperwork. And I don't refer to college grants as handouts, I am talking about people who are just too lazy to get a job. Those are the handouts I don't like. I hope every child who wants to go to college gets the opportunity.

[ComfortEagle]

You have some good points. But sometimes, we have to blame ourselves. This country is now the product of greed. Myself included. We have become accustomed to the idea of having the best of things. The banking industry is in such bad shape because people overspent. Instead of buying a $100,000 house, they got a $250,000 house. The banks are also at fault for approving those loans. But this hasn't happened just under the Bush administration, this has been coming for a long time. And Bush did say eight years ago, we need to drill in the US, but tree huggers don't want that to happen. If we had started eight to ten years ago, we wouldn't be in this mess. Gov. Palin wants to drill more in Alaska, tree huggers don't want to. God put coal and oil in the ground for a reason, and that is for our use. But back on the subject of bad times: Have our huge credit card bills come from things we needed or things we just had to have? And yes, things aren't the best right now. I have a small business with 25 employees, and at times we struggle. But the last thing I need right now is higher taxes, or for the coal industry to fall apart. But as far as the college thing, there are enough grants for people to go to college if they cannot afford it. They just have to take the time to fill out the paperwork. And I don't refer to college grants as handouts, I am talking about people who are just too lazy to get a job. Those are the handouts I don't like. I hope every child who wants to go to college gets the opportunity.

I have always said that the credit crisis falls on both parties. If we want to drill, go for it, but at the same time, those things will run out and we need to be putting money into renewable energy sources.

As for college grants, they just aren't around. I know from experience. There were no grants left when I went to the financial aid office. There weren't any available and I was told I could be put on a wait list for a Pell Grant. I have been on that wait list for 4 years now and still haven't gotten the grant. There aren't enough grants to cover the amount of people who want to go to college. Getting student loans was working, but now banks do not want to lend to anybody with any chance of risk at all, especially students. And nowadays, a lot of students are in college for 5 or 6 years. That is not at the fault of the student, but a lot of that blame deserves to go to the universities who have gotten greedy and require an unnecessary amount of required gen. ed. courses. The longer a student is there, the more money the college gets.

Personally, I am considering transferring to Berea College because they are a good school known for their ability to get students financial aid.

[thecavemaster]

Jesus was for reform, actually for a revolution in the Jewish system.
Jesus cared for the needy, often doing things for them they could not do for themselves. Was jesus liberal, assumbing he did actually exist? If jesus is "the very essence of god in human form" as some suggest, is god liberal? If the poor are blessed, often marginalized, dispossessed, etc. by a controlling elite (see jesus) but favored by god, what then? Getting stuck in one point of view to the exclusion of all others is at least one definition of narrow minded.

[Shady Grady]

Jesus was for reform, actually for a revolution in the Jewish system.
Jesus cared for the needy, often doing things for them they could not do for themselves. Was jesus liberal, assumbing he did actually exist? If jesus is "the very essence of god in human form" as some suggest, is god liberal? If the poor are blessed, often marginalized, dispossessed, etc. by a controlling elite (see jesus) but favored by god, what then? Getting stuck in one point of view to the exclusion of all others is at least one definition of narrow minded.

I hope he has mercy on you for doubting his existence. Yes he did help the poor, but he also said that if a man would not work, he would not eat. That's the part that mankind has screwed up. Man's version is, if he won't work, get on the draw. Jesus said a man should work, and that's the way it is. People too lazy to work don't deserve one red cent of taxpayers money.

[thecavemaster]

I hope he has mercy on you for doubting his existence. Yes he did help the poor, but he also said that if a man would not work, he would not eat. That's the part that mankind has screwed up. Man's version is, if he won't work, get on the draw. Jesus said a man should work, and that's the way it is. People too lazy to work don't deserve one red cent of taxpayers money.

Actually, Saul of Tarsus said that. His mercy extends to the bad and good, to the just and unjust (rain and sunshine) according to jesus. The gentried, land owning rich were supposed to leave the edges of the crop for the poor to gather ("gleanings"). I do not support welfare per se. The "gleanings" idea is a recognition of the unfairness of human economies, but also a recognition that working for the provision is necessary.