Pledge of Allegiance in Schools

**thetribe** · 09-19-2005, 11:10 AM

Attorney General Alberto Gonzales said Thursday that the Justice Department will fight to overturn a federal court ruling that the Pledge of Allegiance can't be recited in public schools because it contains a reference to ***.

Gonzales said the pledge is one of several expressions of national identity and patriotism that mention of *** but don't violate the Constitution's ban on state-sponsored religion.

What is your opinion on this?

I personally feel like it should be allowed in schools because it shows patriotism and it has been around in schools and at sporting events for as long as I can remember. I am Agnostic but I find no offense in saying "One nation under ***". We are in the Bible Belt of America and most of the people in this area are religious.

I can see where some people could take offense to the phrase within the pledge, but even Aethists or other Agnostic people have not voiced complaint about it.

Let's hear it...

**15thRegionCrazy** · 09-19-2005, 05:34 PM

I think it should be said in all schools.. if people don't want their kids to hear or say it the kids can leave the room

**crazytaxidriver** · 09-19-2005, 07:00 PM

I think prayer should be allowed.. myself.. but why is this site censoring ***??

**Beef** · 09-19-2005, 07:20 PM

I'll work on that CTD...thought we had it fixed....

09-21-2005, 06:20 PM

I think prayer should be allowed also!!

**thetribe** · 09-21-2005, 07:03 PM

It should be allowed if it is volunteer, but not pressed upon anyone.
They should never force someone to pray or anything.

**Amun-Ra** · 09-22-2005, 01:46 AM

i think it should be pressed and every student in this country should have to pledge alligence to it. if they have an issue to the word God in it then they can either not say His name or they can say their god's name. BUT everyone should have to pledge alligence to this country.

Prayer should be allowed but they can't make u pray. if a student or teacher so wishes to pray to their god then by all means they should have that right even in school.

**Johnny Ringo** · 09-22-2005, 04:47 PM

Vincent Vega Wrote:i think it should be pressed and every student in this country should have to pledge alligence to it. if they have an issue to the word God in it then they can either not say His name or they can say their god's name. BUT everyone should have to pledge alligence to this country.

Prayer should be allowed but they can't make u pray. if a student or teacher so wishes to pray to their god then by all means they should have that right even in school.

I agree VV

**thetribe** · 09-22-2005, 05:33 PM

I meant that prayer should be volunteer, not saying the pledge.
Sorry I didn't put that in my post.
But yea, pledging to the country I have no problems with.

DTfan · 09-22-2005, 05:50 PM

I dont think that anyone should MAKE you do anything,the way I see it if wanna say the pledge or hold prayer then you should be able to. If you have a problem with saying it then you could leave the room or simply choose not to say it. I don't think that just because some people find it offensive that you should take that away from everyone. There are alot of things said/done that offends people and no one really takes it to this extreme so why should this any different.

**crazytaxidriver** · 09-22-2005, 05:52 PM

Vincent Vega Wrote:i think it should be pressed and every student in this country should have to pledge alligence to it. if they have an issue to the word God in it then they can either not say His name or they can say their god's name. BUT everyone should have to pledge alligence to this country.

Prayer should be allowed but they can't make u pray. if a student or teacher so wishes to pray to their god then by all means they should have that right even in school.

I totally agree

**ComfortEagle** · 09-22-2005, 07:54 PM

The pledge, especially in this day and age ought to be said somewhere. In schools I dunno about because that's kind of like the brainwashing they did with the Hitler youth, but I think that we should all have to recite in front of some sort of authority figure and that every immigrant that chooses to live in this country must say it also.

As for prayer in schools, I ask why? You have your own free will to pray to who ever you want, so why make little kids who cannot even grasp the concept of a g o d pray or listen to a prayer. They surely don't understand what it really means or why it is being done, and for those that do....let them pray on their own, kids have plenty of recess time, let them pray all they want then.

Red Devilette · 09-22-2005, 08:07 PM

I think it should be allowed.. If the schools didnt take out the things that taught the kids right from wrong, we probably wouldnt have kids doing some of the things they do now adays.. When I was in school, which I will add was some time ago lol, we had the pledge and we also had a bible reading, IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS, and back then , you never heard of the guns being brought to school or all the violence that is out there now..

**thetribe** · 09-22-2005, 08:16 PM

We said the pledge every morning when I was growing up in school and I think that it should be continued, maybe not every morning, but at some point.
But like CE said, kids have no concept of prayer or the reasoning behind it, so I don't think that it should be forced on anyone. Let anyone do it in the free time and free will. I have teachers now that will play religious music from their computers while others are trying to work and stuff, not only is it distracting, it is annoying, do not like that type of person and I don't want to hear about God all during that class, even if it is from singing.

**ComfortEagle** · 09-22-2005, 09:01 PM

Red Devilette Wrote:I think it should be allowed.. If the schools didnt take out the things that taught the kids right from wrong, we probably wouldnt have kids doing some of the things they do now adays.. When I was in school, which I will add was some time ago lol, we had the pledge and we also had a bible reading, IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS, and back then , you never heard of the guns being brought to school or all the violence that is out there now..

How old was the una-bomber? Like in his late 40's, 50's. I guess all that G o d in school didn't get through to him now did it?
It has nothing to do with a prayer being said in school. You want to see a direct correlation between youth violence look at the number of children who grow up without fathers. And the number of children who blame youth violence on video games and movies, when they don't even know what their kid saw the last time he went to the movies. If we want to stop youth violence, especially in schools, we need people YOUR AGE SIR, who grew up hearing pledges and prayers to stop being dead beat dads, and we need to stop blaming lack of g o d in school and start blaming parents for bad parenting.

**Amun-Ra** · 09-23-2005, 05:50 PM

CE yea the Unibomber was old but i dont remember hearing things about him blowing stuff up when he was in high school... kids get away with anything they want in school now. all that time out bullshitt. that is a totally different topic about kids behaivior in school. but you are right abut lack of Parents being parents.
prayer should not be forced in school for many reasons. 1 we have freedom of religion.. 2 young kids dont understand religion all that well (who does actually). BUT if students and teachers want to pray to whatever God, then they should have that right.

**thetribe** · 09-23-2005, 07:42 PM

Students and teachers BOTH have that right, they just cannot require anyone else to do so.

Red Devilette · 09-23-2005, 10:52 PM

ComfortEagle Wrote:How old was the una-bomber? Like in his late 40's, 50's. I guess all that G o d in school didn't get through to him now did it?
It has nothing to do with a prayer being said in school. You want to see a direct correlation between youth violence look at the number of children who grow up without fathers. And the number of children who blame youth violence on video games and movies, when they don't even know what their kid saw the last time he went to the movies. If we want to stop youth violence, especially in schools, we need people YOUR AGE SIR, who grew up hearing pledges and prayers to stop being dead beat dads, and we need to stop blaming lack of g o d in school and start blaming parents for bad parenting.

Ok, for one, imma woman so I dont use the "lack of father" to relate to me.. And another, the problem with a lot of kids is that people can not punish their kids nowadays like you could in the past.. And honestly, no I do not remember anything bout the unabomber, sorry.. But i posted my opinion, sorry if you didnt like it, but its my opinion , sorry.

**ComfortEagle** · 09-24-2005, 06:19 PM

Red Devilette Wrote:Ok, for one, imma woman so I dont use the "lack of father" to relate to me.. And another, the problem with a lot of kids is that people can not punish their kids nowadays like you could in the past.. And honestly, no I do not remember anything bout the unabomber, sorry.. But i posted my opinion, sorry if you didnt like it, but its my opinion , sorry.

Girls need father figures too. So why doesn't that apply to women? OK, punishing kids has nothing to do with talking to them and putting rules down for them.

I just don't see why we should allow something in schools that 1) the kids aren't going to understand and 2) will alienate those of other religions.

Red Devilette · 09-24-2005, 08:08 PM

Well, all I can say is that is my opinion.. Everyone is entitled to their own thoughts.. Sorry that you dont agree with it.. But I wont argue this.. not really worth it, just was posting my opinion.. Have a nice day Smile

Hawks nest · 09-24-2005, 08:26 PM

taking the pledge and the ten commandments out of school is like taking the directions or instructions out of buying a piece of furniture that has to be put together. Some of us can figure it out but others are left in the dark. If we have those instructions then most all of us can figure it out. So I say lets give our kids the directions and instructions to be successful in life.

**thetribe** · 09-25-2005, 01:50 PM

Kids wouldn't understand the full concept of the commandments and prayer and stuff even if it was taught before they had to say it.
They just wouldn't comprehend the full basis of religion and prayter and commandments so therefore they would be saying stuff just because they were supposed to. It shouldn't be pointing them in the right "direction", they need to (when they are old enough) to pick their own direction.

**ComfortEagle** · 09-25-2005, 03:24 PM

Hawks nest Wrote:taking the pledge and the ten commandments out of school is like taking the directions or instructions out of buying a piece of furniture that has to be put together. Some of us can figure it out but others are left in the dark. If we have those instructions then most all of us can figure it out. So I say lets give our kids the directions and instructions to be successful in life.

What directions?? Directions of Christianity, which is not the religion of all the kids in the schools. If you say it should be there simply for the teaching of right and wrong, then why don't we teach Hamurabi's code?

That would be much more effective because the ten commandments alone offer no repurcussions for comitting the action. While Hamurabi's code says if you do something bad to someone, you will get the same thing done to you.

The Ten Commandments are directions for Christians, not for everyone.

**thetribe** · 09-25-2005, 04:06 PM

Exactly CE.
Point I was trying to get across in my last post as well, it is not and should not be direction for everyone, espically children because they don't understand any of it.

Hawks nest · 09-25-2005, 06:29 PM

And they wont understand unless they are taught. Unless we teach our kids to count and read are they gonna understand it. If we dont teach our kids biology are they gonna understand it. What I am trying to say is that you shouldnt take something out of our schools that stands for all of us as a nation. Thats what we are doing as a nation. Look what happen to the umwa they didnt continue what their fathers and grand fathers had done and now our kids dont understand that. So are we gonna take out the pledge and the ten commandments so they will not understand that. I depend on my tax money to teach my kids. As a working father I dont have all the time I need to teach them. But whether it is in schools or not I will make time for my kids to know this. We want tradition to continue and it will only work if our school system continues to use it.

Red Devilette · 09-25-2005, 06:32 PM

I agree .. Our kids are smarter now than we ever thought we could be.. Things these days are more advanced and so are our children.. Children understand more than people think they do.

**thetribe** · 09-25-2005, 09:21 PM

But grade school aged children will never understand religion no matter how smart they are because many adults do not comprehend much of the topic.
There is a certain time and place for religion and it is at home. Take your children to church during the week or on Sundays but do not make all children learn about it in the schools and don't depend on kids 5-11 or so to even begin much comprehension.

**ComfortEagle** · 09-25-2005, 09:22 PM

Hawks nest Wrote:And they wont understand unless they are taught. Unless we teach our kids to count and read are they gonna understand it. If we dont teach our kids biology are they gonna understand it. What I am trying to say is that you shouldnt take something out of our schools that stands for all of us as a nation. Thats what we are doing as a nation. Look what happen to the umwa they didnt continue what their fathers and grand fathers had done and now our kids dont understand that. So are we gonna take out the pledge and the ten commandments so they will not understand that. I depend on my tax money to teach my kids. As a working father I dont have all the time I need to teach them. But whether it is in schools or not I will make time for my kids to know this. We want tradition to continue and it will only work if our school system continues to use it.

THAT'S THE THING!!! IT DOESN'T STAND FOR US ALL AS A NATION. Not everyone in the United States worships the same God as you do, and not every person shares the same religion.

If you want your kids to learn religion take them to church. That's not what the school's are for.

**ComfortEagle** · 09-25-2005, 09:29 PM

Red Devilette Wrote:I agree .. Our kids are smarter now than we ever thought we could be.. Things these days are more advanced and so are our children.. Children understand more than people think they do.

I'm not saying kids are dumb now a days, I'm saying that when I was 8....10....14, I honestly could not grasp the concept. Some people in their 70's and 80's still can't grasp the concept.

Also, why shove one religion down a kids throat?? Because you think it's right? Who's to say who is right and who is wrong? Why not let the kids figure out which direction to go in when they learn, instead of forcing one idea, one religion down their heads their whole lives.

**Amun-Ra** · 09-25-2005, 11:38 PM

well kids may not understand their religion fully but it owuld give them a good sense of right and wrong... ya know good morals. i just dont see forcing it on them in school. the PLEDGE however should be in schools. As an American you should br proud to say it.