[RedDevil_TE]

I want to know everyone's thoughts and personal opinions on this team.

[russelldevils54]

well if they play solid defense they can play with alot of people that is WHEN they play defense that is sometime the problem

[kdrn]

Devils come out to play today IMO.

[JackRabbitSlim]

Another below .500 team in Russell? That really shocks me. They should have a lot better talent than what is being shown. I can remember a time when Russell had a very good baseball team and competed every year. The past few years it hasn't been that way. Are kids just not coming out to play or what?

[RHSUK13]

your exactly right

[JackRabbitSlim]

Something or "someone" needs to really do something about their baseball situation. I know Russell is primarily a football school, and maybe this is just a bad couple of classes for athletes who know? All I am getting at is someone needs to find out from the ground up what is going on, meaning the little league feeder programs. Russell use to have the strongest little league program in that area, and it sounds like it isn't like that anymore. Is it the coaches? Is it the parents? Or is the talent just not there? It will have to start at that level before a change can really take affect.

[RHSUK13]

there is alot of players who could make a big difference who don't play or who have quit over the past 2 or 3 years. I guess the interest is down but its probably more than that

[Sponge Bob]

I don't think it's the coaches. Part of it has to do with players not playing to focus on football and such. This isn't a large population, but I know that this year Mike Dillon, who would have been a stud pitcher, decided to forgo the game to focus on football. Also, players just don't seem to be developing themselves. There doesn't appear to be the year round focus by a majority of players that is necessary to compete.

The weakness for the Devils the past 10 years or so seems to be a lack of quality pitching depth. They have been pretty good over the years offensively, but have struggled fielding the pitching depth. This is the biggest problem this season. They have really one consistent pitcher, another who can do a good job at times, and then a bunch of mediocre youngsters. I'm not sure if this is due to just a lack of strong armed kids, or if these players aren't putting the time in to develop. Nevertheless, it is he doom of the ball club.

[JackRabbitSlim]

I don't think it's the coaches. Part of it has to do with players not playing to focus on football and such. This isn't a large population, but I know that this year Mike Dillon, who would have been a stud pitcher, decided to forgo the game to focus on football. Also, players just don't seem to be developing themselves. There doesn't appear to be the year round focus by a majority of players that is necessary to compete.

The weakness for the Devils the past 10 years or so seems to be a lack of quality pitching depth. They have been pretty good over the years offensively, but have struggled fielding the pitching depth. This is the biggest problem this season. They have really one consistent pitcher, another who can do a good job at times, and then a bunch of mediocre youngsters. I'm not sure if this is due to just a lack of strong armed kids, or if these players aren't putting the time in to develop. Nevertheless, it is he doom of the ball club.

They need to be developed during little league. Their offense obviously isn't there this year either. Someone posted where they only had two hits last night. If their little league and Babe Ruth systems start progressing and they start developing these young players then their high school will prosper from it, and that alone will cause more of an interest in the game. Coaches should carry part of the blame because they are the ones who's responsibility is to develop these kids.

[DevilsWin]

They need to be developed during little league. Their offense obviously isn't there this year either. Someone posted where they only had two hits last night. If their little league and Babe Ruth systems start progressing and they start developing these young players then their high school will prosper from it, and that alone will cause more of an interest in the game. Coaches should carry part of the blame because they are the ones who's responsibility is to develop these kids.

I don't think Russell had enough kids come out the past 2 years to even have a Babe Ruth League.
The old guard of coaches from the Russell/Flatwoods Little League are all but gone.

The ones in charge now are lack luster at best.

[JackRabbitSlim]

I don't think Russell had enough kids come out the past 2 years to even have a Babe Ruth League.
The old guard of coaches from the Russell/Flatwoods Little League are all but gone.

The ones in charge now are lack luster at best.

That is what I have heard. Letting somebody's daddy do it, is not going to build a tradition of winning or fundamentals. It has to start there, and until it does you can count on Russell have lack luster seasons at the high school.

[Sponge Bob]

They need to be developed during little league. Their offense obviously isn't there this year either. Someone posted where they only had two hits last night. If their little league and Babe Ruth systems start progressing and they start developing these young players then their high school will prosper from it, and that alone will cause more of an interest in the game. Coaches should carry part of the blame because they are the ones who's responsibility is to develop these kids.

I have limited knowledge of the situation on little league/babe ruth, but what I do know is that the current coaching staff has attempted to be a part of the babe ruth/little league with nothing but contempt to show for it. Just a great example of the situation:

Last season Russell's coach had an under 15 team for players during the summer. He also had a second JV team consisting of middle school players. The Babe Ruth coaches (some, I don't know about all) were all up in arms, complained to the school board, had meetings with the AD and superintendent claiming the varsity baseball team was taking all of the Babe Ruth kids and ruining the league. While the summer team is optional and not under school jurisdiction, the superintendent and AD now has asked Russell's coach to not have the summer team. They caved into the Babe Ruth pressure. It was lead by a certain attorney (and babe ruth person) in Greenup who has caused considerable stink about the entire issue. This is what the coach has to work with. I think you can basically say that it is not very easy for them to have good relationships and help develop the little league/Babe Ruth kids.

As far as offense, yes, there have been a few games where they did struggle offensively, but this year, they have scored 193 runs in 25 games. This averages out to 7.72 runs per game. This would easily be enough to be pretty good if the pitching was there. Unfortunately, they have given up 196 runs, or 7.84 runs per game. You'll see the trend that I think at least partly backs up my theory.

2007
185 runs scored (6.16 per game); 209 runs given up (6.96)

2006
264 runs scored (6.94 per); 134 runs given up (4.55) This season they finished 25-13, won the district, and made the second round of regions

2005
118 runs scored (4.72); 135 runs given up (5.4)

2004
220 runs scored (6.66); 245 runs given up (6.82)

2003
184 runs scored (6.13); 206 runs given up (6.86)

2002
149 runs scored (8.27); 136 runs given up (7.55)

As you can see, only two of the seasons listed did the Red Devils actually outscore the opponents for the season. This can be due to lack of pitching and poor defense. From my knowledge with the program, the majority has been due to lack of pitching. They have averaged 6.48 runs per game during the last 6 years and have given up 6.35. Good offense, but poor pitching.

A lot of people may think that in high school baseball scoring 6.48 runs per game isn't that great, but here is how some other notable schools have averaged scoring per game in the same time frame:

Boyd County: 7.12
Ashland: 5.82
Greenup: 6.34
Lawrence Co: 6.55

Now, I'm not trying to shove my theory down anyone's throat. Heck, my theory may be wrong. I'm just looking at some research to see if my theory holds any light. Feel free to disagree.

[JackRabbitSlim]

I have limited knowledge of the situation on little league/babe ruth, but what I do know is that the current coaching staff has attempted to be a part of the babe ruth/little league with nothing but contempt to show for it. Just a great example of the situation:

Last season Russell's coach had an under 15 team for players during the summer. He also had a second JV team consisting of middle school players. The Babe Ruth coaches (some, I don't know about all) were all up in arms, complained to the school board, had meetings with the AD and superintendent claiming the varsity baseball team was taking all of the Babe Ruth kids and ruining the league. While the summer team is optional and not under school jurisdiction, the superintendent and AD now has asked Russell's coach to not have the summer team. They caved into the Babe Ruth pressure. It was lead by a certain attorney (and babe ruth person) in Greenup who has caused considerable stink about the entire issue. This is what the coach has to work with. I think you can basically say that it is not very easy for them to have good relationships and help develop the little league/Babe Ruth kids.

As far as offense, yes, there have been a few games where they did struggle offensively, but this year, they have scored 193 runs in 25 games. This averages out to 7.72 runs per game. This would easily be enough to be pretty good if the pitching was there. Unfortunately, they have given up 196 runs, or 7.84 runs per game. You'll see the trend that I think at least partly backs up my theory.

2007
185 runs scored (6.16 per game); 209 runs given up (6.96)

2006
264 runs scored (6.94 per); 134 runs given up (4.55) This season they finished 25-13, won the district, and made the second round of regions

2005
118 runs scored (4.72); 135 runs given up (5.4)

2004
220 runs scored (6.66); 245 runs given up (6.82)

2003
184 runs scored (6.13); 206 runs given up (6.86)

2002
149 runs scored (8.27); 136 runs given up (7.55)

As you can see, only two of the seasons listed did the Red Devils actually outscore the opponents for the season. This can be due to lack of pitching and poor defense. From my knowledge with the program, the majority has been due to lack of pitching. They have averaged 6.48 runs per game during the last 6 years and have given up 6.35. Good offense, but poor pitching.

A lot of people may think that in high school baseball scoring 6.48 runs per game isn't that great, but here is how some other notable schools have averaged scoring per game in the same time frame:

Boyd County: 7.12
Ashland: 5.82
Greenup: 6.34
Lawrence Co: 6.55

Now, I'm not trying to shove my theory down anyone's throat. Heck, my theory may be wrong. I'm just looking at some research to see if my theory holds any light. Feel free to disagree.

It's not that I disagree, but you have to take other variables into consideration. The four teams you have mentioned at the bottom of your post, 3 of those have played ten times the schedule Russell has played. What makes this bad the past couple of seasons is they are giving up so many runs against 16th region teams, and are getting mercy ruled by the actual good teams.

Russell has only played 4 or 5 teams from a different region than their own, and they have been beaten every time except for a rare win over Belfry, a win against St. Patrick(who's record is 1-15), and Green, OH who is terrible. You also have to consider a loss to a very poor Sheldon Clark team, and an even worse loss to West Carter. I am not trying to bash on Russell, I love their tradition, I am just try to put everything in perspective.

My point is they are 11-14 and scored 193 runs, but it's against absolutely nobody. Their schedule isn't good enough to be able to talk about scoring 7 runs a game. If you are playing the schedule Greenup and Boyd are, then you can brag about averaging that many runs. I hope they get things turned around.

[DevilsWin]

I have limited knowledge of the situation on little league/babe ruth, but what I do know is that the current coaching staff has attempted to be a part of the babe ruth/little league with nothing but contempt to show for it. Just a great example of the situation:

Last season Russell's coach had an under 15 team for players during the summer. He also had a second JV team consisting of middle school players. The Babe Ruth coaches (some, I don't know about all) were all up in arms, complained to the school board, had meetings with the AD and superintendent claiming the varsity baseball team was taking all of the Babe Ruth kids and ruining the league. While the summer team is optional and not under school jurisdiction, the superintendent and AD now has asked Russell's coach to not have the summer team. They caved into the Babe Ruth pressure. It was lead by a certain attorney (and babe ruth person) in Greenup who has caused considerable stink about the entire issue. This is what the coach has to work with. I think you can basically say that it is not very easy for them to have good relationships and help develop the little league/Babe Ruth kids.

As far as offense, yes, there have been a few games where they did struggle offensively, but this year, they have scored 193 runs in 25 games. This averages out to 7.72 runs per game. This would easily be enough to be pretty good if the pitching was there. Unfortunately, they have given up 196 runs, or 7.84 runs per game. You'll see the trend that I think at least partly backs up my theory.

2007
185 runs scored (6.16 per game); 209 runs given up (6.96)

2006
264 runs scored (6.94 per); 134 runs given up (4.55) This season they finished 25-13, won the district, and made the second round of regions

2005
118 runs scored (4.72); 135 runs given up (5.4)

2004
220 runs scored (6.66); 245 runs given up (6.82)

2003
184 runs scored (6.13); 206 runs given up (6.86)

2002
149 runs scored (8.27); 136 runs given up (7.55)

As you can see, only two of the seasons listed did the Red Devils actually outscore the opponents for the season. This can be due to lack of pitching and poor defense. From my knowledge with the program, the majority has been due to lack of pitching. They have averaged 6.48 runs per game during the last 6 years and have given up 6.35. Good offense, but poor pitching.

A lot of people may think that in high school baseball scoring 6.48 runs per game isn't that great, but here is how some other notable schools have averaged scoring per game in the same time frame:

Boyd County: 7.12
Ashland: 5.82
Greenup: 6.34
Lawrence Co: 6.55

Now, I'm not trying to shove my theory down anyone's throat. Heck, my theory may be wrong. I'm just looking at some research to see if my theory holds any light. Feel free to disagree.

For what purpose were these other 2 teams?

Russell/Flatwoods never had them before.

So why did the coach feel the need to create this problem?

[DevilsWin]

I have limited knowledge of the situation on little league/babe ruth, but what I do know is that the current coaching staff has attempted to be a part of the babe ruth/little league with nothing but contempt to show for it. Just a great example of the situation:

Last season Russell's coach had an under 15 team for players during the summer. He also had a second JV team consisting of middle school players. The Babe Ruth coaches (some, I don't know about all) were all up in arms, complained to the school board, had meetings with the AD and superintendent claiming the varsity baseball team was taking all of the Babe Ruth kids and ruining the league. While the summer team is optional and not under school jurisdiction, the superintendent and AD now has asked Russell's coach to not have the summer team. They caved into the Babe Ruth pressure. It was lead by a certain attorney (and babe ruth person) in Greenup who has caused considerable stink about the entire issue. This is what the coach has to work with. I think you can basically say that it is not very easy for them to have good relationships and help develop the little league/Babe Ruth kids.

As far as offense, yes, there have been a few games where they did struggle offensively, but this year, they have scored 193 runs in 25 games. This averages out to 7.72 runs per game. This would easily be enough to be pretty good if the pitching was there. Unfortunately, they have given up 196 runs, or 7.84 runs per game. You'll see the trend that I think at least partly backs up my theory.

2007
185 runs scored (6.16 per game); 209 runs given up (6.96)

2006
264 runs scored (6.94 per); 134 runs given up (4.55) This season they finished 25-13, won the district, and made the second round of regions

2005
118 runs scored (4.72); 135 runs given up (5.4)

2004
220 runs scored (6.66); 245 runs given up (6.82)

2003
184 runs scored (6.13); 206 runs given up (6.86)

2002
149 runs scored (8.27); 136 runs given up (7.55)

As you can see, only two of the seasons listed did the Red Devils actually outscore the opponents for the season. This can be due to lack of pitching and poor defense. From my knowledge with the program, the majority has been due to lack of pitching. They have averaged 6.48 runs per game during the last 6 years and have given up 6.35. Good offense, but poor pitching.

A lot of people may think that in high school baseball scoring 6.48 runs per game isn't that great, but here is how some other notable schools have averaged scoring per game in the same time frame:

Boyd County: 7.12
Ashland: 5.82
Greenup: 6.34
Lawrence Co: 6.55

Now, I'm not trying to shove my theory down anyone's throat. Heck, my theory may be wrong. I'm just looking at some research to see if my theory holds any light. Feel free to disagree.

The guys in Babe Ruth and Little League were just trying to protect what they have so more kids can play ball.
Sounds to me like Martino(I think that's his name) has singlehandedly brought Russell Baseball to its knees.

BTW isn't he an Ashland guy? If so why should we expect anything less?

I mean look at what a great job other coaches from Ashland have done for Russell Sports programs.

[Sponge Bob]

It's not that I disagree, but you have to take other variables into consideration. The four teams you have mentioned at the bottom of your post, 3 of those have played ten times the schedule Russell has played. What makes this bad the past couple of seasons is they are giving up so many runs against 16th region teams, and are getting mercy ruled by the actual good teams.

Russell has only played 4 or 5 teams from a different region than their own, and they have been beaten every time except for a rare win over Belfry, a win against St. Patrick(who's record is 1-15), and Green, OH who is terrible. You also have to consider a loss to a very poor Sheldon Clark team, and an even worse loss to West Carter. I am not trying to bash on Russell, I love their tradition, I am just try to put everything in perspective.

My point is they are 11-14 and scored 193 runs, but it's against absolutely nobody. Their schedule isn't good enough to be able to talk about scoring 7 runs a game. If you are playing the schedule Greenup and Boyd are, then you can brag about averaging that many runs. I hope they get things turned around.

First, I'm not trying to call you out or your posts. You are right, their schedule is not very tough this year. That has to be factored into the theory of mine. I forgot to mention that aspect. However, this year's schedule is weaker on purpose. The team was going to struggle no matter what, so the schedule was toned down. A lot of people may disagree with this tactic, but playing a weak schedule is usually going to net you a few wins and build your youngster's confidence level. Heck, playing weak schedules have allowed Raceland to average 20 wins per season for ever!

Yes, Russell is getting mercied some by the better teams this year, mainly due to poor pitching. They've been mercied four times this year (12-2 to Boyd, 15-4 to Rowan, 12-1 to Greenup, and 17-5 to Boyd again) Their only good win of the season is a 10-3 win over Ashland. However, in the past, Russell has played good teams from other areas, and haven't been mercied too many times, which shows the offense keeps them in the game:

2007 (mercied 3 times)
Beat Sheldon Clark, Bourbon County, Ryle

2006 (not mercied any)
Lost to West Jessamine (5-4), PRP (8-1), South Laurel (8-5), Bourbon Co. (4-3)
Beat Louisville Southern, Ryle, Covington Holmes, Portsmouth West, Ironton

2005 (mercied twice)
Split with Portsmouth, OH, beat Portsmouth West,

2004-2002
Played yearly split games with Wayne, WV, Ironton, Cabell Midland, Huntington High, Spring Valley, Portsmouth, and they also played Paintsville, Prestonsburg, Fairland, OH.

So, my point is that yes, this season their runs per game is high and their schedule is weak. However, the past 6 years, not counting this one, their runs are high and their schedule is pretty good and they are playing quality schools from other regions and states. Also, until the last probably 2 years, Greenup wasn't playing a killer schedule. Lawrence usually plays in Florida and then one out of district tournament and then not much else. Ashland doesn't play a killer schedule either. Only Boyd usually does so.

[JackRabbitSlim]

First, I'm not trying to call you out or your posts. You are right, their schedule is not very tough this year. That has to be factored into the theory of mine. I forgot to mention that aspect. However, this year's schedule is weaker on purpose. The team was going to struggle no matter what, so the schedule was toned down. A lot of people may disagree with this tactic, but playing a weak schedule is usually going to net you a few wins and build your youngster's confidence level. Heck, playing weak schedules have allowed Raceland to average 20 wins per season for ever!

Yes, Russell is getting mercied some by the better teams this year, mainly due to poor pitching. They've been mercied four times this year (12-2 to Boyd, 15-4 to Rowan, 12-1 to Greenup, and 17-5 to Boyd again) Their only good win of the season is a 10-3 win over Ashland. However, in the past, Russell has played good teams from other areas, and haven't been mercied too many times, which shows the offense keeps them in the game:

2007 (mercied 3 times)
Beat Sheldon Clark, Bourbon County, Ryle

2006 (not mercied any)
Lost to West Jessamine (5-4), PRP (8-1), South Laurel (8-5), Bourbon Co. (4-3)
Beat Louisville Southern, Ryle, Covington Holmes, Portsmouth West, Ironton

2005 (mercied twice)
Split with Portsmouth, OH, beat Portsmouth West,

2004-2002
Played yearly split games with Wayne, WV, Ironton, Cabell Midland, Huntington High, Spring Valley, Portsmouth, and they also played Paintsville, Prestonsburg, Fairland, OH.

So, my point is that yes, this season their runs per game is high and their schedule is weak. However, the past 6 years, not counting this one, their runs are high and their schedule is pretty good and they are playing quality schools from other regions and states. Also, until the last probably 2 years, Greenup wasn't playing a killer schedule. Lawrence usually plays in Florida and then one out of district tournament and then not much else. Ashland doesn't play a killer schedule either. Only Boyd usually does so.

In my post I was referring to this year, so whatever else you are referring to is irrelevant. They have played a weak schedule and it allows them to get more runs. However, as weak as their schedule is they have only won 11 games. Boyd always plays a tough schedule and so does Lawrence. You obviously haven't looked at LC's schedule this year. I'll post it at the bottom so you can see it, and Greenup's as well. These are three successful programs that play this type of schedule year in year out. Ever since Logan has been there they have not played a weak schedule. Like I said I want Russell to succeed, but unless they get their little league system straightened out and play some tougher teams it won't happen. Most times than not a coach schedules weak because the administration usually doesn't attend games, and when they look at the numbers they still have a good record. Please look at these schedules, and if you know anything about the teams on them you will know how difficult it actually is to play a schedule like this. If you don't know about these teams then go to http://www.khsbca.com and look at the top 25 rankings, and you will find a lot of their opponents.

LC's schedule.

http://scoreboard.12dt.com/scoreboard/kh...tion_name=

Boyd's schedule.

http://scoreboard.12dt.com/scoreboard/kh...8?id=26880
[SIZE="2"]
Greenup's schedule.[/SIZE]

http://scoreboard.12dt.com/scoreboard/kh...8?id=26955

And here is Russell's schedule.

http://scoreboard.12dt.com/scoreboard/kh...8?id=27065

[Sponge Bob]

For what purpose were these other 2 teams?

Russell/Flatwoods never had them before.

So why did the coach feel the need to create this problem?

1. What purpose would you have a summer team for under 15? First, it about player development. Being able to keep your high school players playing together and developing their game is apparently highly looked upon. Just ask Boyd County, Greenup, etc. It's pretty much a requirement at Boyd that if you play summer ball, it's on the school's team. Successful baseball programs do this.

What purpose would you have a middle school JV team? If you (as a high school coach) can start developing players in middle school, why would you not????? First, you said yourself that the one's in charge of Babe Ruth now in Russell are lackluster at best! If this is true (and these are your words, not mine), then I'd rather them not play. However, there is no reason the middle school JV players could not play both high school baseball and Babe Ruth. They really don't overlap too much. Also, part of the problem with consistently weaker high school baseball programs is due to not being able to develop talent from a young age. This is exactly what a high school baseball coach can do with a middle school team.

Russell/Flatwoods has never had them before? True, and when is the last time the Red Devils were able to compete with the big boys consistently? Not since I can remember. They may have a good year here and there, but that is it.

Why did the coach feel the need to create this problem? First, it isn't a problem, except to a few Babe Ruth people who felt they were being wronged. However, this does not make it a legitimate problem. The whole point of the thread is why isn't Russell competitive in baseball anymore!

Go around and view the programs at Boyd County, Lawrence County, Johnson Central. What you will find is (pretty much manditory) summer teams for their players and middle school programs (either strictly middle school teams or JV teams with all middle school players). This causes good player evaluations and development by the high school coaching staff from the earlier ages. If Russell wants to keep up with and become successful like the named schools, they need to do the same. However, when they try, you hear this stuff.

I'm sorry, but as much as I support the local Babe Ruth programs, I don't back them on this issue. What is the ultimate goal of most little league baseball players? To play high school baseball. If they can do this in the 7th grade, why would they not? To simply play Babe Ruth, with some coaches that are "lackluster" to borrow your terms? I just don't get the double standards. I'm sorry that Russell/Flatwoods does not have the kids out to have a great Babe Ruth League that they have had in the past. However, if 20 middle school age children decide to strictly play JV baseball and summer ball with the high school team, this should not affect the Babe Ruth League in the least! There are almost 500 students in the middle school. Take away 6th grade and you're probably left with 333 students. If half are boys, then you should have around 167 boys to fill out Babe Ruth rosters. Even if not all boys are into baseball, then you should have at least 100. That leaves 5 teams of 20 players, or 7 teams of almost 15 players. The only issue that could come up is that the "best of the best" will not be playing Babe Ruth. Who cares! Only the coaches who are selfishly into winning meaningless championships instead of player development. They get upset because the best players are no longer on their roster.

What the problem is now, however is that there aren't 100 kids coming out. Why? I have no idea. There should be plenty of kids to play baseball for the Babe Ruth. There's not, so the Babe Ruth coaches are now getting mad that the few they have left are also playing high school ball. If the kids are not coming out, IT IS NOT THE HIGH SCHOOL COACHES FAULT!

[Sponge Bob]

In my post I was referring to this year, so whatever else you are referring to is irrelevant. They have played a weak schedule and it allows them to get more runs. However, as weak as their schedule is they have only won 11 games. Boyd always plays a tough schedule and so does Lawrence. You obviously haven't looked at LC's schedule this year. I'll post it at the bottom so you can see it, and Greenup's as well. These are three successful programs that play this type of schedule year in year out. Ever since Logan has been there they have not played a weak schedule. Like I said I want Russell to succeed, but unless they get their little league system straightened out and play some tougher teams it won't happen. Most times than not a coach schedules weak because the administration usually doesn't attend games, and when they look at the numbers they still have a good record. Please look at these schedules, and if you know anything about the teams on them you will know how difficult it actually is to play a schedule like this. If you don't know about these teams then go to www.khsbca.com and look at the top 25 rankings, and you will find a lot of their opponents.

LC's schedule.

http://scoreboard.12dt.com/scoreboard/kh...tion_name=

Boyd's schedule.

http://scoreboard.12dt.com/scoreboard/kh...8?id=26880

Greenup's schedule.

http://scoreboard.12dt.com/scoreboard/kh...8?id=26955

And here is Russell's schedule.

http://scoreboard.12dt.com/scoreboard/kh...8?id=27065

Obviously, I know all of these teams schedules. I stated that yes, this year, Russell is not very good. They have a good offensive team but no pitching. Greenup, Boyd, and Lawrence County are better than Russell. Russell scheduled a weaker schedule this season due to their youth and lack of talent returning. The past few years, Russell has been playing tougher schedules, similar to Boyd, Greenup, LC, etc. They are trying to get there. And as far as Greenup goes, they didn't start playing this tough schedule until the past few years.

Anyway, we're debating two separate issues, so I'll stop. My point is that Russell has in the past years has been plagued with good offensive players and poor pitching depth. That is what my stats were for, not this year.

On a separate note, the KHSBCA rankings are a joke. It is based on coaches voting. Most coaches don't vote or have never seen the teams play. They only go on past reputation. It doesn't mean that the teams on it aren't good, but many good teams are left off while a mediocre teams are put on due to past reputation. Case in point, Greenup is not on the top 25.

[DevilsWin]

Russell/Flatwoods as pointed out earlier used to have one of the top 10 Little League/Babe Ruth programs in the state.

Several years ago a bunch of guys from Little League tried to do away with Babe Ruth and go to a Senior League. That didn't work either.

I'm sure there is plenty of blame to go around..........from T-ball to Varsity!

Loosing guys like Bernard Williams really hurts too!

[Sponge Bob]

Russell/Flatwoods as pointed out earlier used to have one of the top 10 Little League/Babe Ruth programs in the state.

Several years ago a bunch of guys from Little League tried to do away with Babe Ruth and go to a Senior League. That didn't work either.

I'm sure there is plenty of blame to go around..........from T-ball to Varsity!

Loosing guys like Bernard Williams really hurts too!

I'm not familiar with Bernard Williams and the rest of the issues dealing with Russell Flatwoods Little League.

What I do know is the biggest issue regarding Russell/Flatwoods Babe Ruth is that the do not have enough players coming out. This is causing there to be strife when players do want to go and play JV. There should be plenty of kids to fill up Babe Ruth rosters. Where are they? I have no idea, but those should be the kids targeted to play, not the one's they already have and also play JV.

I really am not sure of how the varsity can be blamed for the problem of a lack of players. I know Morris was pretty much hands off and had nothing to do with little league/babe ruth other than the token clinic. Martino has tried to work with them, but is getting the brunt end of the fact that players aren't coming out and the coaches think he is stealing the remaining players. It is a crazy situation.

[DevilsWin]

I'm not familiar with Bernard Williams and the rest of the issues dealing with Russell Flatwoods Little League.

What I do know is the biggest issue regarding Russell/Flatwoods Babe Ruth is that the do not have enough players coming out. This is causing there to be strife when players do want to go and play JV. There should be plenty of kids to fill up Babe Ruth rosters. Where are they? I have no idea, but those should be the kids targeted to play, not the one's they already have and also play JV.

I really am not sure of how the varsity can be blamed for the problem of a lack of players. I know Morris was pretty much hands off and had nothing to do with little league/babe ruth other than the token clinic. Martino has tried to work with them, but is getting the brunt end of the fact that players aren't coming out and the coaches think he is stealing the remaining players. It is a crazy situation.

It all boils down to leadership.

[Bosox Fan]

I believe that russell may be going out soon this year again....I was shocked when Lewis beat them last year...but unless Tyler Dehoff is on I do not look for them to get any farther this year

[Sponge Bob]

The guys in Babe Ruth and Little League were just trying to protect what they have so more kids can play ball.
Sounds to me like Martino(I think that's his name) has singlehandedly brought Russell Baseball to its knees.

BTW isn't he an Ashland guy? If so why should we expect anything less?

I mean look at what a great job other coaches from Ashland have done for Russell Sports programs.

More kids can play what ball? Babe Ruth? That is the problem. It seems to me that some kids are already playing ball for the high school. If there are not enough kids coming out for Babe Ruth, then they need to target those kids, not damage the high school program by keeping them from playing JV.

And yes, Martino was a coach for Ashland. He's from Pittsburgh, so he's not an "Ashland guy", other than the fact that he coached there for a few years. Anyway, I'm curious to see how he's "brought Russell baseball to its knees". Don't get me wrong, I like Coach Morris, but he was a football coach first, and dabbled in baseball. All Coach Martino has done is play a tougher schedule (except for this year), play in more tournaments around the state, get statewide exposure for his players and try and establish a summer team for players to play in. If that is "bringing it to its knees", then most teams should be so fortunate. It's not like Russell was a regional Titan before he got here and now suddenly, the cannot sniff .500.

And your dig about other Ashland guy coaches, I'm not sure who you are talking about, unless you are talking about Dodd. Coach Hicks is from Ashland, but I don't think he's done anything to cripple the football program. I can't even think about any other coaches with Ashland ties at Russell.

[JackRabbitSlim]

Bernard Williams was an icon in Russell/Flatwoods little league. I think he coached the Astros for years and won it just about every year. That was back when everyone wanted to play.

"SpongeBob" i am not arguing the fact that the top 25 is a joke. It you take a look at some of my past posts on that issue, we share the exact same thinking towards. However, it was simply a reference to how some of those programs are viewed by the rest of the state. I am not going to argue with you about the past ten years because I have no idea about the past ten years at Russell. If you don't want to talk about this year then that is fine, but that is all I was referring to.

[DEVILOLOGIST]

Last year the 9-10 allstars went undefeated in districts and then went to state. They went with 3 of the starters out with injuries. 1- Eli hamilton broke his leg in the regular season. Isaac Sherman had 35 stitches in his throwing hand due to an accident at home and then Logan Suman had and emergency appendectomy 6 days before the state tourney. We were pooled with Lexington. Louisville and Owensboro. We were 1-2 with the two losses by 1-3 runs in each game.
This year willbe different.......

My thought on little league is this. We have 150 kids playing. The only reason HALF are there is becasue their paretns want them there.

[Sponge Bob]

Bernard Williams was an icon in Russell/Flatwoods little league. I think he coached the Astros for years and won it just about every year. That was back when everyone wanted to play.

"SpongeBob" i am not arguing the fact that the top 25 is a joke. It you take a look at some of my past posts on that issue, we share the exact same thinking towards. However, it was simply a reference to how some of those programs are viewed by the rest of the state. I am not going to argue with you about the past ten years because I have no idea about the past ten years at Russell. If you don't want to talk about this year then that is fine, but that is all I was referring to.

That is what I was trying to get at. I'm not trying to argue with you in the least. I was putting some info up about how Russell has been plagued with a lack of pitching depth for a long time. You were talking about things this year. It appeared that we were going round and round, but in actuality, we were just on different subjects. It's all good. In fact, I agree with everything you have said.

What gets me is this (and I'm just ranting, not directing this to you JackRabbit), there is a complete set of double standards and double talk among MANY people as to what will make a good high school program at Russell! Here are my opinions from what I have seen:

1. Russell is struggling to have competitive baseball teams lately. Three years ago they won 25 games and made the second round of the regions, but last year they lost in the first round of districts and are under .500 this year. There is no doubt that after 2006, the talent dropped off and there wasn't much to replace it.

2. Boyd County, Lawrence County, and (in the past two years) Greenup County have been the model of success and consistency in the region. These teams work year round on baseball, require their players to participate on team based summer teams where they get to play against good competition with their teammates, or they play Post 76. They also have fall ball teams. Also, the majority of their players were baseball players first. They spend most of the year trying to improve baseball skills.

3. Russell has not done any of this stuff. Players in the past and present (I would say at least 98%) came out on February 15th and played until the final game. Then, they would put the baseball away for good until next February 15th. They did little to nothing to improve their skills. They were mainly football or basketball players first. Baseball skill improvement was a distant thought.

4. Russell, under Coach Martino, has tried to create an environment where baseball players became baseball players first. For those that weren't, he tried to give them opportunities to continue improving their baseball skills while also focusing on other sports. I know he designed the summer team schedule to still allow football players to participate in passing leagues and the season was over before football practice started.

5. While Martino is trying to put Russell's baseball program at the level of Boyd, Lawrence, and Greenup (with the things in point 2), this was met with nasty resistance from the local Babe Ruth league. They claimed that middle school players playing JV and the summer team was taking their players away and they did not have enough players to field teams. While this may be true, it is not Martino's fault. He allowed his middle school players to still play Babe Ruth and even encouraged them to do so if that is what they wanted to do. However, instead of the Babe Ruth fighting the high school over these 20 or so kids, what they need to be focusing on is getting other kids out to play Babe Ruth. There are plenty of kids in Russell/Flatwoods to play. If they are not out, try to get them out! Instead, they were fighting over these golden eggs!

6. So here is what I see. Russell needs to develop their players earlier and create an atmosphere where they can guide and develop them over the summer with a school team and in the fall with a team. The coach is trying to do this, but (and here is the double standard people seem to have) due to a shortage of Babe Ruth players and some old fashioned ignorance, people only want the coach to have access to his Kids from February 15th until the last game is played. Russell is not allowing it's program to flourish like the rest. It is handcuffing them by this entire Babe Ruth issue. Everyone says why can't you win like BC and the crew but then won't allow them to develop their players like these schools do!

Also, from what I know about Coach Martino, he is not the problem here. This has been going on for awhile, way before he got here. There have been players quit that could desperately help this team out. He expects his players to behave on and off the field and maintain good grades. Many have quit because they didn't want to follow one or the other. Also, some young players have quit because they felt like they should have the right to start without earning it and when they didn't, they couldn't handle it.

Also, on another note, DevilsWin seems to have some ridiculous bias against Ashland people. All I can think of is that someone from Ashland must have run over his dog when he was a child. Just because some has ties to the city does not make them horrible coaches or people. That is laughable to me and seems to disavow anything he says. Martino has brought the Red Devils to its knees because he is from Ashland? Insane.

[Sponge Bob]

Last year the 9-10 allstars went undefeated in districts and then went to state. They went with 3 of the starters out with injuries. 1- Eli hamilton broke his leg in the regular season. Isaac Sherman had 35 stitches in his throwing hand due to an accident at home and then Logan Suman had and emergency appendectomy 6 days before the state tourney. We were pooled with Lexington. Louisville and Owensboro. We were 1-2 with the two losses by 1-3 runs in each game.
This year willbe different.......

My thought on little league is this. We have 150 kids playing. The only reason HALF are there is becasue their paretns want them there.

Sounds like you have some insight into the little league at Russell. How many 12 year olds played last year? If there are 150 kids in little league, what do you think the reasons are that they don't move on to Babe Ruth? I kind of think that we are getting into the generation of video games, where kids are losing the desire to participate in outdoor activities!

[DEVILOLOGIST]

out of 12 kids on our major league team currently 6 can play ball at that level... I know of 4 that does not know what to do in any situation.
Here is how I see it. Up until 12 years old every kid is MANDATED to play. Every kid has to play at least 6 consecutive outs and has to bat 1 time. This allows the free substitution rule. Here is a problem. If KID-A loves baseball and wants to be there, he may have to sit at some time. or drop down in the batting order to cover 5 kids who have no interest in playing ball. KID-A gets mad becasue kid-b is playing or batting ahead of him in the line-up not knowing it will be better for the team.

Now when it comes to Babe Ruth ball you have the following situation. At Russell a couple of years ago, greenup lost their baberuth league and combined with Russell. When All-stars rolled around , the team consisted of mostly Greenup kids and NOT the R/F baberuth kids. That caused alot of problems and I can see why parents were upset.
Also you have the situation of Middle Schools in the area are fielding teams to play in school sports. This may lead to a middle school team eventually at Russell. My thoughts are: it is better to play against great competition and make you kids better, stronger than to play against your own kids. You will only be as good as your best player you face. Do you wan to be a big fish in a little pond or do you want to learn how to swim with the big FISH.

I put together a USSSA, AABC, AMERICAN -ALLSTARS baseball team 2 years ago, when my boy was 8 years old. We played the following year in the state tourney against the best of the best. We played 1 team who had kids from 4 states on their team . Yea we lost (by one run) but we were voted best defensive team at the tourney and people could not believe that our team was from the same gradeschool. That was unheard of. We played as a 9U team during that year. I was a board member at R/F LL at this time and took a beating for do ing this. I had to hear. "Why was my kid not onthat team, was he not good enough" I had parents ask me to place their kid on that team and offered to give our team money to do so. $1,000 was hard to turn down knowing it would have helped when travel came around. Needless to say......
This team lasted 2 years with an average of 90 games a baseball during the regular season. Every kid that played on this team is still playing baseball today as a 11 year old at R/FLL. Out of the 12 kids that made the 10 year old all-stars. 10 had played on my travel team. These kids want to play and are very good. I had no input on picking all-stars as it a Manager ballot. I am not a manager and I will not be manager at R/F LL because I do not want to be. The kids coming up will face the changing times. In the past some kids could play AABC ball and make them better. Now the leagues have changed. Only LL is at R/F and Greenup and raceland has AABC, USSSA leagues. these leagues teach the ultimate baseball with having to learn how to pitch from the stretch and hold runners on.. THE REAL RULES of baseball.

So as I find myself typing way to much all I can say is this....
Times are changing.....kids do not want to play baseball as much as play video games.......some kids only do it becasue their parents make them do it......
Kids eventually just say I am not playing anymore!!!!

Russell/Flatwoods allows kids to enjoy the sport of baseball and teaches them how to play........
Kids who love the game stand out and will advance...........Some kids will only play little league and then nothing else.
I am just happy that I had the opportunity to enjoy my time at the league.

[Sponge Bob]

out of 12 kids on our major league team currently 6 can play ball at that level... I know of 4 that does not know what to do in any situation.
Here is how I see it. Up until 12 years old every kid is MANDATED to play. Every kid has to play at least 6 consecutive outs and has to bat 1 time. This allows the free substitution rule. Here is a problem. If KID-A loves baseball and wants to be there, he may have to sit at some time. or drop down in the batting order to cover 5 kids who have no interest in playing ball. KID-A gets mad becasue kid-b is playing or batting ahead of him in the line-up not knowing it will be better for the team.

Now when it comes to Babe Ruth ball you have the following situation. At Russell a couple of years ago, greenup lost their baberuth league and combined with Russell. When All-stars rolled around , the team consisted of mostly Greenup kids and NOT the R/F baberuth kids. That caused alot of problems and I can see why parents were upset.
Also you have the situation of Middle Schools in the area are fielding teams to play in school sports. This may lead to a middle school team eventually at Russell. My thoughts are: it is better to play against great competition and make you kids better, stronger than to play against your own kids. You will only be as good as your best player you face. Do you wan to be a big fish in a little pond or do you want to learn how to swim with the big FISH.

I put together a USSSA, AABC, AMERICAN -ALLSTARS baseball team 2 years ago, when my boy was 8 years old. We played the following year in the state tourney against the best of the best. We played 1 team who had kids from 4 states on their team . Yea we lost (by one run) but we were voted best defensive team at the tourney and people could not believe that our team was from the same gradeschool. That was unheard of. We played as a 9U team during that year. I was a board member at R/F LL at this time and took a beating for do ing this. I had to hear. "Why was my kid not onthat team, was he not good enough" I had parents ask me to place their kid on that team and offered to give our team money to do so. $1,000 was hard to turn down knowing it would have helped when travel came around. Needless to say......
This team lasted 2 years with an average of 90 games a baseball during the regular season. Every kid that played on this team is still playing baseball today as a 11 year old at R/FLL. Out of the 12 kids that made the 10 year old all-stars. 10 had played on my travel team. These kids want to play and are very good. I had no input on picking all-stars as it a Manager ballot. I am not a manager and I will not be manager at R/F LL because I do not want to be. The kids coming up will face the changing times. In the past some kids could play AABC ball and make them better. Now the leagues have changed. Only LL is at R/F and Greenup and raceland has AABC, USSSA leagues. these leagues teach the ultimate baseball with having to learn how to pitch from the stretch and hold runners on.. THE REAL RULES of baseball.

So as I find myself typing way to much all I can say is this....
Times are changing.....kids do not want to play baseball as much as play video games.......some kids only do it becasue their parents make them do it......
Kids eventually just say I am not playing anymore!!!!

Russell/Flatwoods allows kids to enjoy the sport of baseball and teaches them how to play........
Kids who love the game stand out and will advance...........Some kids will only play little league and then nothing else.
I am just happy that I had the opportunity to enjoy my time at the league.

Wow! I'm sure your hand is hurting now from writing so much. I asked your opinion on the subject and I appreciate your answer. I also agree with a lot of it. I think you should always want to play with the big fish. If a middle schooler has the opportunity to play high school baseball, why should they not want to or be given the opportunity to? Isn't the ultimate (short term or long term) goal for these kids to play high school baseball? (These are hypothetical questions, I'm not asking you). I know it is unfortunate that the Babe Ruth league is struggling to get kids out, but I'm tired of people blaming the high school for those problems, fighting to keep these players from playing high school baseball, and then complaining that the team is not as good as the big dogs.

Devilologist, other people were making a statement that the Little League and Babe Ruth are not teaching the fundamentals to develop the youth. Do you see this as occurring? What are you seeing?