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10-28-2007, 12:41 AM
Is it time to pull the plug on Jim Black at Whitley County? Whitley County Football is a mess. Last season Whitley was 2-8 and it would appear that this season will end at 2-9. 4 wins in two seasons with the talent at Whitley is not acceptable. The last coach was fired after 15 years of sucess for two 500 seasons. It would have taken the last Coach at least five years (probably 10 years against the competition on this years schedule) to accumulate the number of loses Black will post in two seasons.
This years team based on talent alone should be 7-2 and no worse than 6-3. This years team is an embarrasment for all involved. If the coach can not win with the talent he has now, he will never be able to win. Looking back, this years team is one of the most talented overall teams at Whitley in the last 10 years. Looking forward at the upcoming classes down through the 7th grade, the talent is no better than what is now in place. With probably the most talented backfield at Whitley in at least 6 years Whitley has not scored more than 2 touch downs against anyone outside of the "No Defense Home of Basketball Scores" 5A District 8. Whitley has been held to 6 points in two of its last three games. In one of those games single A Lynn Camp pounded Whitley 36-6 to beat Whitley for only the second time in 30 years. The next week this same Lynn Camp Team was beaten by Whitley's cross town single A rival Williamsburg. The coach continues to run his self devised experimental hybrid offense that no has ever seen or heard of before despite the unbelievably poor results and a cascade of laughter and criticism. It seems he is too stuborn to admit that his lab rat offense will not work.
Should the administration let this coach ruin the careers of another talented class? As this year's senior class ran their last lap Friday night, it was hard not to remember that this group came to the high school after an undefeated 7th and 8th grade campaign. Coach Black's teams have gotten progressively worse over the past two seasons. Last years team was terrible but it would beat this years team.
On a personal basis, Jim Black is a fine man. I do not think that anyone could find fault with his character. He cares about the kids, he works hard, and he is a nice guy. He is not; however, the right coach for Whitley County. Coach Blacks favors finesse pass oriented teams and schemes. Whitley County's roster is always going to be best suited for smash mouth power oriented football. Whitley is just not a good fit for Coach Black. I think it is time to make a change for good of everyone involved including Coach Black.
This years team based on talent alone should be 7-2 and no worse than 6-3. This years team is an embarrasment for all involved. If the coach can not win with the talent he has now, he will never be able to win. Looking back, this years team is one of the most talented overall teams at Whitley in the last 10 years. Looking forward at the upcoming classes down through the 7th grade, the talent is no better than what is now in place. With probably the most talented backfield at Whitley in at least 6 years Whitley has not scored more than 2 touch downs against anyone outside of the "No Defense Home of Basketball Scores" 5A District 8. Whitley has been held to 6 points in two of its last three games. In one of those games single A Lynn Camp pounded Whitley 36-6 to beat Whitley for only the second time in 30 years. The next week this same Lynn Camp Team was beaten by Whitley's cross town single A rival Williamsburg. The coach continues to run his self devised experimental hybrid offense that no has ever seen or heard of before despite the unbelievably poor results and a cascade of laughter and criticism. It seems he is too stuborn to admit that his lab rat offense will not work.
Should the administration let this coach ruin the careers of another talented class? As this year's senior class ran their last lap Friday night, it was hard not to remember that this group came to the high school after an undefeated 7th and 8th grade campaign. Coach Black's teams have gotten progressively worse over the past two seasons. Last years team was terrible but it would beat this years team.
On a personal basis, Jim Black is a fine man. I do not think that anyone could find fault with his character. He cares about the kids, he works hard, and he is a nice guy. He is not; however, the right coach for Whitley County. Coach Blacks favors finesse pass oriented teams and schemes. Whitley County's roster is always going to be best suited for smash mouth power oriented football. Whitley is just not a good fit for Coach Black. I think it is time to make a change for good of everyone involved including Coach Black.
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10-28-2007, 04:52 PM
What is more important giving a coach some extra time (to do what he should have already done) or a complete class going through high school under a coach that can not win.
Personally, I think the kids are more important?
Personally, I think the kids are more important?
10-29-2007, 01:04 AM
By the way, the 4 wins this coach has amassed in the last two years came as follows:
2 wins (this year and last year) over a winless North Laurel team
1 win this year over 3A New Port who has won 1 game this season
a win last year over 1A Lynn Camp who beat Whitley this year for only the second time in 30 years
For all practical purposes, this coach has not beaten any team with a pulse (no offense to last year's Lynn Camp team which is always a respectable 1A team) over the past two years.
2 wins (this year and last year) over a winless North Laurel team
1 win this year over 3A New Port who has won 1 game this season
a win last year over 1A Lynn Camp who beat Whitley this year for only the second time in 30 years
For all practical purposes, this coach has not beaten any team with a pulse (no offense to last year's Lynn Camp team which is always a respectable 1A team) over the past two years.
10-29-2007, 09:38 AM
Possum Bait,
You are causing more harm to your team than you know by writing this stuff on the Internet. Now you got the kids thinking this, and they still have the playoffs to go. It takes more than 2 years to build a program..ex. Rich Brooks. Give the guy some time and quit complaining all the time. Every post you have had on here is negative towards Whitley County football and they could still possibly win the district and go on to play Highlands in the third round. From what I have seen, your best players are young kids so just stay positive at least till the season ends. Kids read this stuff and I would say that you have already influenced them into thinking that there coach stinks! I personally think he is a tremendous coach and he has a tremendous staff.
You are causing more harm to your team than you know by writing this stuff on the Internet. Now you got the kids thinking this, and they still have the playoffs to go. It takes more than 2 years to build a program..ex. Rich Brooks. Give the guy some time and quit complaining all the time. Every post you have had on here is negative towards Whitley County football and they could still possibly win the district and go on to play Highlands in the third round. From what I have seen, your best players are young kids so just stay positive at least till the season ends. Kids read this stuff and I would say that you have already influenced them into thinking that there coach stinks! I personally think he is a tremendous coach and he has a tremendous staff.
10-29-2007, 02:02 PM
Hazzbeen everyone is entitled to an opinion, but I can tell you that the over whelming number of people arounf Whitley County have the same opinion that I do. Whitley's football program is headed in the wrong direction at warp speed.
You must be joking when you write the word "build". The players needed to win were in place when Coach Black got there. Remember the last coach was replaced for 500 seasons in a very tough 4A district. If anything, suggesting the players on this team are not talented is insulting not to mention an untruth. Yes, there are some young players playing. There have always been young players playing at Whitley. Traditionally, Whitley's top notch players begin playing as freshman and starting as sophmores. Nothing new here.
The truth is this team is poorly prepared week after week. They run an offense that is impossible to run out out of. The coach gets on the radio and says he wants to be primarily a running team but his team lines up in the shotgun on every play even short yardage and goal line situations. The scheme obviously does not work, but it is the same every week. How many one and two touchdown games do you need to see that it will not work? How can a kid with over 150 yards rushing one week only get one attemp the next week, when his team only has 17 yards rushing on 22 attempts? He teaches kids to always tackle high and guess what, they tackle high which is why you see a couple dozen broken tackles evey week. What ever happened to the first man hit at the waist or below wrapping the legs to ensure the tackle is made and the second man hitting high and stripping? This seems to work for Bell County. The point is, this is a very poorly coached team and it shows on the field and on the score board.
The kids know something is wrong, the parents know something is wrong, the fans know something is wrong. 75% of the crowd was gone by the start of the 4th quarter Friday night. This should tell you something.
You must be joking when you write the word "build". The players needed to win were in place when Coach Black got there. Remember the last coach was replaced for 500 seasons in a very tough 4A district. If anything, suggesting the players on this team are not talented is insulting not to mention an untruth. Yes, there are some young players playing. There have always been young players playing at Whitley. Traditionally, Whitley's top notch players begin playing as freshman and starting as sophmores. Nothing new here.
The truth is this team is poorly prepared week after week. They run an offense that is impossible to run out out of. The coach gets on the radio and says he wants to be primarily a running team but his team lines up in the shotgun on every play even short yardage and goal line situations. The scheme obviously does not work, but it is the same every week. How many one and two touchdown games do you need to see that it will not work? How can a kid with over 150 yards rushing one week only get one attemp the next week, when his team only has 17 yards rushing on 22 attempts? He teaches kids to always tackle high and guess what, they tackle high which is why you see a couple dozen broken tackles evey week. What ever happened to the first man hit at the waist or below wrapping the legs to ensure the tackle is made and the second man hitting high and stripping? This seems to work for Bell County. The point is, this is a very poorly coached team and it shows on the field and on the score board.
The kids know something is wrong, the parents know something is wrong, the fans know something is wrong. 75% of the crowd was gone by the start of the 4th quarter Friday night. This should tell you something.
10-29-2007, 03:17 PM
I personally like some of the things that they do out of the shotgun. Possum Bait, running out of the shot gun is not a bad thing. You spread every one out and it gives you numbers. I am just saying if you really want to support the program don't be so negative. They still have a chance to have a good year. No one teaches there kids to tackle low I would think. That causes you to look at their feet and not their numbers. We teach our kids to look the opponent in the numbers.
10-29-2007, 08:38 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-29-2007, 08:42 PM by Possum Bait.)
Hazz Been,
You would have to see this offense to understand how bad it is? I understand the spread concept. The spread concept only works if you pass enough to actually spread the defense. This team runs the shotgun on every play and they run 75% of the time. They run out of the shotgun in two tightend sets. They run out of the shotgun on 4th and inches. They run out of the shotgun in goal line situations. They have no plays from under center. 50% of their plays are run to either the 6 hole or the 5 hole. Before you say Tim Teebow, Whitley's qb weighs maybe 150lbs and is anything but a power runner. He is not going to break any tackles. This is a team that has been held to one or two touchdowns per game by EVERY team outside their "no defense, basketball scores" district. They have been held to 6 points in two of their last three games. I will say this again, held to one or two touchdowns by EVERY team outside the district.
I did not say a tackle should be made with a defenders head down. A defenders head and eyes should always be up with his knees flexed. I said good tackling teams gang tackle with the first guy hitting low and wrapping the legs, the second guy hits high and strips. The head and shoulders can be used to fake a defender, the belt line cannot. Once the legs are secured, the ball carrier is tackled.
This team is taught to hit high. Any time you hit a good back high, there is a good chance for a broken tackle. The ball carrier uses his shoulder pads and head gear to shed the tackle. Whitley's team is notorious for broken tackles under Black. You can count on at least a dozen to two dozen per week. The most punishing tackle is actually a shin buster. Most backs do not like to have their shins cracked. The thighs are also very vulnerable. A couple of good shots to the shins and thighs will result in most backs slowing down considerably. Why do you think blocking below the knee is illegal? Punishment issues aside, once a back's legs are secured he is not going anywhere.
Whitley has their worst team in 25 years ( last year's team was even slightly better), when talent wise they should have one of their best 7 or 8 teams in the same 25 years. Whitley has progressively gotten worse with every game beginning with the first game Black coached last year. Combine these factors with poor fundamentals (easily the worst blocking and tackling in 25 years), terrible special teams, an extremely poor uncomprehendably bazzarr offensive scheme, and unbelievably bad play calling, and you can see why Whitley needs to find a new coach. If you do not want to look at all these objective factors just look at the record and the strength of schedule then compare it with the ten years prior to Black. I think any remaining doubts you may have, will be clarified.
You would have to see this offense to understand how bad it is? I understand the spread concept. The spread concept only works if you pass enough to actually spread the defense. This team runs the shotgun on every play and they run 75% of the time. They run out of the shotgun in two tightend sets. They run out of the shotgun on 4th and inches. They run out of the shotgun in goal line situations. They have no plays from under center. 50% of their plays are run to either the 6 hole or the 5 hole. Before you say Tim Teebow, Whitley's qb weighs maybe 150lbs and is anything but a power runner. He is not going to break any tackles. This is a team that has been held to one or two touchdowns per game by EVERY team outside their "no defense, basketball scores" district. They have been held to 6 points in two of their last three games. I will say this again, held to one or two touchdowns by EVERY team outside the district.
I did not say a tackle should be made with a defenders head down. A defenders head and eyes should always be up with his knees flexed. I said good tackling teams gang tackle with the first guy hitting low and wrapping the legs, the second guy hits high and strips. The head and shoulders can be used to fake a defender, the belt line cannot. Once the legs are secured, the ball carrier is tackled.
This team is taught to hit high. Any time you hit a good back high, there is a good chance for a broken tackle. The ball carrier uses his shoulder pads and head gear to shed the tackle. Whitley's team is notorious for broken tackles under Black. You can count on at least a dozen to two dozen per week. The most punishing tackle is actually a shin buster. Most backs do not like to have their shins cracked. The thighs are also very vulnerable. A couple of good shots to the shins and thighs will result in most backs slowing down considerably. Why do you think blocking below the knee is illegal? Punishment issues aside, once a back's legs are secured he is not going anywhere.
Whitley has their worst team in 25 years ( last year's team was even slightly better), when talent wise they should have one of their best 7 or 8 teams in the same 25 years. Whitley has progressively gotten worse with every game beginning with the first game Black coached last year. Combine these factors with poor fundamentals (easily the worst blocking and tackling in 25 years), terrible special teams, an extremely poor uncomprehendably bazzarr offensive scheme, and unbelievably bad play calling, and you can see why Whitley needs to find a new coach. If you do not want to look at all these objective factors just look at the record and the strength of schedule then compare it with the ten years prior to Black. I think any remaining doubts you may have, will be clarified.
10-29-2007, 09:25 PM
I was just saying that you are causing more harm to your team than good. Kids read this and then they start to doubt their coach. By the way, I have seen your offense up close and personal, I coached against it. I personally feel like his philosophy behind the offense was ruined when #24 went out. Without the support of your community, it is hard to be a coach anywhere.
10-30-2007, 01:28 AM
Hazzbeen,
You are correct, it is hard to coach without the support of the community. I think Coach Black has lost the support of the parents and fans at Whitley. Worse than that, I do not think the kids believe in him anymore. The kids seemed to just give up Friday Night. I saw them do the same thing at Lynn Camp. 75% of the crowd was gone by the start of the 4th quarter Friday Night. I have not talked to a single parent that had any remaining confidense in Coach Black. My writing just reflects what most people are thinking. I would say that at least 25 people, mostly parents, have approached me since my first posting on this issue, to tell me that they agree with me 100%
I think the real turning point was the Lynn Camp game. I actually had some hope until the Lynn Camp game. Do not get me wrong, I have been *****ing about the offensive scheme since the preseason scrimmages. I knew from the first time I saw it that Whitley would not be able to run the ball out of it. Common football sense tells you that a 75% running team can not run every play out of the shotgun without a legitmate dual threat qb. Labanon has been missed, on special teams especially. Even with Labanion, the offense would not work because Labanion can not throw the ball. Labanion was probably the 5th best ball carrier on the team, I can not understand why you would want your 5th best option to be your featured ball carrier. It just does not make sense. Now days, teams move their corners up in the box when McCumbers goes out of the game. It is the scheme not the talent.
I think everyone likes Coach Black. Heck, I like Coach Black. Coach Black is a good guy. He cares about the kids, he works hard and he, no doubt, wants to win. On every level except winning, I think he is a terrific guy. He just does not seem to understand how to win. He spends an inordinate amount of time trying to do fancy complicated things that actually hurt his teams chances of winning. For example, putting in different looks to his offense. Whitley has 3 or 4 different formations for each play, a lot of hoop-la for a play which usually involves a long snap followed by a run to the 6 hole. It does not make any difference what the formation is, as soon as the ball is snapped everyone on the defensive line immediately reads the play because they can contiuously see the ball.
I think the root of Coach Black's problem may actually be too much thinking. Instead of focussing and developing what his team can do best and consequently forcing other teams to adapt to his teams strengths, Coach Black is always trying to adjust what his team does to address the other teams strengths. It seems that Coach Black is always coaching from the perspective that the opposing team has superior personel. In reality, Whitley has had superior or at least equally talented personel in most of its games this year. If Coach Black could just come to the conclusion that he has the talent to win and that he can win by running the ball down the other teams throat on offense and playing hard nosed aggressive defense, he would immediately see more success.
Using the same defensive scheme they have used all year (assuming kids like #26, #12. #9, and #34 are playing in the correct positions as they have recently), Whitley could have lined up in some sort of time proven power running scheme (Wind T, veer, wish bone, ect.), executed 6 or 7 basic plays and they would be 7-2 or no worse than 6-3.
I can see this, most others can see this, Why can't Coach Black see this. Come on Coach Black, play like you have the superior team because in most cases you do. Concentrate on doing on what you can do well. This change in phylosophy alone might win the district.
You are correct, it is hard to coach without the support of the community. I think Coach Black has lost the support of the parents and fans at Whitley. Worse than that, I do not think the kids believe in him anymore. The kids seemed to just give up Friday Night. I saw them do the same thing at Lynn Camp. 75% of the crowd was gone by the start of the 4th quarter Friday Night. I have not talked to a single parent that had any remaining confidense in Coach Black. My writing just reflects what most people are thinking. I would say that at least 25 people, mostly parents, have approached me since my first posting on this issue, to tell me that they agree with me 100%
I think the real turning point was the Lynn Camp game. I actually had some hope until the Lynn Camp game. Do not get me wrong, I have been *****ing about the offensive scheme since the preseason scrimmages. I knew from the first time I saw it that Whitley would not be able to run the ball out of it. Common football sense tells you that a 75% running team can not run every play out of the shotgun without a legitmate dual threat qb. Labanon has been missed, on special teams especially. Even with Labanion, the offense would not work because Labanion can not throw the ball. Labanion was probably the 5th best ball carrier on the team, I can not understand why you would want your 5th best option to be your featured ball carrier. It just does not make sense. Now days, teams move their corners up in the box when McCumbers goes out of the game. It is the scheme not the talent.
I think everyone likes Coach Black. Heck, I like Coach Black. Coach Black is a good guy. He cares about the kids, he works hard and he, no doubt, wants to win. On every level except winning, I think he is a terrific guy. He just does not seem to understand how to win. He spends an inordinate amount of time trying to do fancy complicated things that actually hurt his teams chances of winning. For example, putting in different looks to his offense. Whitley has 3 or 4 different formations for each play, a lot of hoop-la for a play which usually involves a long snap followed by a run to the 6 hole. It does not make any difference what the formation is, as soon as the ball is snapped everyone on the defensive line immediately reads the play because they can contiuously see the ball.
I think the root of Coach Black's problem may actually be too much thinking. Instead of focussing and developing what his team can do best and consequently forcing other teams to adapt to his teams strengths, Coach Black is always trying to adjust what his team does to address the other teams strengths. It seems that Coach Black is always coaching from the perspective that the opposing team has superior personel. In reality, Whitley has had superior or at least equally talented personel in most of its games this year. If Coach Black could just come to the conclusion that he has the talent to win and that he can win by running the ball down the other teams throat on offense and playing hard nosed aggressive defense, he would immediately see more success.
Using the same defensive scheme they have used all year (assuming kids like #26, #12. #9, and #34 are playing in the correct positions as they have recently), Whitley could have lined up in some sort of time proven power running scheme (Wind T, veer, wish bone, ect.), executed 6 or 7 basic plays and they would be 7-2 or no worse than 6-3.
I can see this, most others can see this, Why can't Coach Black see this. Come on Coach Black, play like you have the superior team because in most cases you do. Concentrate on doing on what you can do well. This change in phylosophy alone might win the district.
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