[BFritz]

How do you think they'll rank up in the NFL?

I think they'll be ok, between 12th-15th, and a few websites I've seen agree, but two of them think they'll be like 26th and 20th.

Opinions?

[Scotty doesn't know]

Well if all of your observations are correct then I will have to say right around 14th-17th. Your reports from training camp really influenced my opinion! Thanks man.

[BFritz]

Well if all of your observations are correct then I will have to say right around 14th-17th. Your reports from training camp really influenced my opinion! Thanks man.

Even though today won't be exactly the same as a game, we should at least get more of an indication of how good they are against a very good and very balanced Saints offense(Bress throwing, Colston catching, Bush running, etc.).

The Saints defense is usually pretty solid though at not allowing many points, and I think that they'll have a down year.

[Grand Slam]

i feel we are going to be pretty good even though we lost a few players

[More Cowbell]

If the defense even gets near the middle of the pack of the league (around 16-20), the team will win the division and make a playoff run. All we ask the defense to do is not lose the game and give the offense a chance.

I think the D-line will be below-average but adequate. The season will hinge on how well Ahmad Brooks adjusts to being 'the man' on defense, and how well Joseph, O'Neal, and Hall can shut down the oppostion's passing game.

[Scotty doesn't know]

Even though today won't be exactly the same as a game, we should at least get more of an indication of how good they are against a very good and very balanced Saints offense(Bress throwing, Colston catching, Bush running, etc.).

The Saints defense is usually pretty solid though at not allowing many points, and I think that they'll have a down year.

How do you feel after the Saturday game? To tell you the truth I feel the same. lol It's preseason.

[BelfryJustice]

The Saints didn't have much trouble moving the ball on them last night. We have a lot of work that needs to take place on this side of the ball. It might even be time to get a new D Coordinator after this year. The O last night just makes me sick. Down the field for nothing, down the field for nothing, well Graham was the man once again. Thank God for preseason! Only time will tell!

:mad:

[BFritz]

How do you feel after the Saturday game? To tell you the truth I feel the same. lol It's preseason.

Last night was rough, but it's preseason and we didn't even play all the starters. However, the offense did look promising again, and Palmer looks back to his pre-injury form again (I mean in mechanics and follow through), and he didn't prode big numbers or anything, but it's all about just making his mechanics get into the flow of the game and get timing down.

You don't prepare for preseason like it's a regular season game, we're barely out of training camp, and so are they, so it's not like we focused on the game all week like it was a regular season game.

-Palmer

http://bengals.com/media/index.asp?multimedia_id=1418

If you go there and listen to his interview, Palmer basically says all the same stuff I did: that they're just getting into the rhythm, and they didn't wanna show too much in the preseason games, and they'll come through in instances like the Red Zone.

[Bengal Cat]

i hope Levi gets back soon so Whit can go to left guard and andrews can slide back to Backing up the right side over Koosh.

Coats looked decent,
would it kill our DBs to not play 5 yards off once in awhile?
DL needs more push ,
Did our LBs play?
OL needs more push
Carson missed a wide open WR for a TD (should get better)
we need to play another qb besides Doug Johnson , sadly our best offense was when Rowe came in.
Need to try a different RB other then Watson .
Perry looked rusty and seemed to not be running the paterns the qbs was expecting at times.
Hazen daz Jones actually impressed me they had him playing CB
Dexter jackson needs to remember to not tackle with his shoulder and try wraping up people.

Other than all that just remember its preseason. A month from now we won't even remember these games.

[BFritz]

If the defense even gets near the middle of the pack of the league (around 16-20), the team will win the division and make a playoff run. All we ask the defense to do is not lose the game and give the offense a chance.

I think the D-line will be below-average but adequate. The season will hinge on how well Ahmad Brooks adjusts to being 'the man' on defense, and how well Joseph, O'Neal, and Hall can shut down the oppostion's passing game.

Brooks is already doing very well at being 'the man,' he's being able to determine what the offense is doing and make his adjustments and calls based on that, you just can't teach that. He's also being an animal.

I'm very confident that O'Neal, Joseph, and Hall will be able to shut down the oponent's passing game, and Madieu Williams also looks to be very good.

[More Cowbell]

BFritz, I didn't get to see the game last night. What happened early on with the defense? I know Carson fumbled and pretty much gave the Saints a gimme TD, but what about the rest of the time? I know some players had to have looked bad, where did you see the biggest problems?

Sorry so many questions, it just seems from the way the game unfolded that we were never in it. Very disappointing.

[BFritz]

BFritz, I didn't get to see the game last night. What happened early on with the defense? I know Carson fumbled and pretty much gave the Saints a gimme TD, but what about the rest of the time? I know some players had to have looked bad, where did you see the biggest problems?

Sorry so many questions, it just seems from the way the game unfolded that we were never in it. Very disappointing.

Brooks is still getting used to having control of the defense, but he's getting used to it, and once he does that, the physical aspect of the game will follow and he'll start making big plays to stop the offense.

The secondary looked rough, but take into account that we didn't play Joseph, and O'Neal looked to be limping a bit. Hall already made an athletic play Saturday that you woouldn't have seen in the past few years, which gives you confidence that the secondary will be tough with Joseph and Hall starting on opposite corners.

Pass rush was also a big hole: we didn't get any pressure on the QB, and any pro quarterback will pick any team apart if he has all day to sit back and throw.

The score doesn't tell much of the game because the Saints scored some after the starters were pulled, but here's the answer to your question: take out my second paragraph, because that's not a problem; the secondary will be full-go in season, but it's just Brooks getting his physical abilities parallel with his abilities to run the team, and the other linebackers will hopefully step-up as well when he is in full-effect, and the defensive line needs to help stop the run better while also getting a solid pash rush.

Then the offense's problem's just timing, which will come.

[Bengal Cat]

I know its still preseason, but my main concern is still the pass rush. It won't matter who we have in the secondary if we don't bring any pressure. Im not pushing any panic buttons, its too early. But if the defense does not improve this year I say bye bye Chucky B.

Im not worried about the offensive woes in the Red Zone. When the bright lights of Monday Night Sept 10 th come on, Carson & Co. will be ready.

[More Cowbell]

I agree with you guys, I'm not worried at all about the offense. I fully expect them to drop 20+ points on Baltimore's D when we play for real in a few weeks.

The defense concerns me, though. Justin Smith is a decent run-stopper and he's durable, but he just doesn't have that burst to get around the tackle and hit the QB. Geathers is pretty good at getting sacks, but when he's not in the game we get zero pocket pressure.

I really think the secondary should be a strength, but Joseph's hurt foot has me worried, as does your report that O'Neal was limping. I believe Leon Hall is a special talent, but a rookie starting at CB is going to burned a lot, just from lack of experience. I really want Joseph to get healthy and O'Neal to step it up so we only have to bring Hall in on passing downs.

As for the LB's, I also think Brooks is a special talent, and Landon and Jeanty are serviceable. A lot hinges on Brooks' development.

[Bengal Cat]

If Hall starts hes going to take his lumps as do all rookies. All the more reason we need to get some pressure on the QB.

[BFritz]

I agree with you guys, I'm not worried at all about the offense. I fully expect them to drop 20+ points on Baltimore's D when we play for real in a few weeks.

The defense concerns me, though. Justin Smith is a decent run-stopper and he's durable, but he just doesn't have that burst to get around the tackle and hit the QB. Geathers is pretty good at getting sacks, but when he's not in the game we get zero pocket pressure.

I really think the secondary should be a strength, but Joseph's hurt foot has me worried, as does your report that O'Neal was limping. I believe Leon Hall is a special talent, but a rookie starting at CB is going to burned a lot, just from lack of experience. I really want Joseph to get healthy and O'Neal to step it up so we only have to bring Hall in on passing downs.

As for the LB's, I also think Brooks is a special talent, and Landon and Jeanty are serviceable. A lot hinges on Brooks' development.

Understandable, and good concerns.

Joseph looks to be back to health, and, by all indications, will play Monday in Atlanta. O'Neal's limp is of no big concern, and the other DBs are also getting back to health, and will be able to fill in the holes in the secondary nicely.

It is hoped that Ahmab Brooks, like I've said in previous posts, can get more physical and be a presence in the middle, but he's still learning to run the defense, which is coming along, and the physical part will follow because it's just a matter of getting the mental part to match the physical part. Once Brooks becomes a bigger force in the middle, it will open up things for the other backers to make plays too.

The only worry that I have is the defensive line, but most of their gaps and missed assigments against the Saints were just miscommunications or a wrong gap to shoot or angle to take. So, while the mental part is huge, I feel like they can get that part down, and then be physical enough to make plays and stop some teams.

[Bengal Cat]

For this defense to be successful IMO it all comes down to the D-line getting off the ball and getting a push. Sooner or later they will get to the QB and disrupt the opposing offense. We are getting dinked and dunked to death with short passes. Brees did it last week on his only series and thats exactly what Manning did to us in Indy last year. I'd like to see our D-line move the line of scrimmage backwards sometimes instead of being moved 2 yards off the ball at the snap.

[BFritz]

For this defense to be successful IMO it all comes down to the D-line getting off the ball and getting a push. Sooner or later they will get to the QB and disrupt the opposing offense. We are getting dinked and dunked to death with short passes. Brees did it last week on his only series and thats exactly what Manning did to us in Indy last year. I'd like to see our D-line move the line of scrimmage backwards sometimes instead of being moved 2 yards off the ball at the snap.

I agree but I don't know what to say because it looks like it's just not clicking. I think Geathers and Smith have the potential at the ends, but it's the interior line I'm still not sure about, and the two ends I mentioned have to come to play.

The rest of the defense looks good, IMO, but, like you said, it starts up front. Any QB can pick apart a D with all day to throw.

[More Cowbell]

I agree but I don't know what to say because it looks like it's just not clicking. I think Geathers and Smith have the potential at the ends, but it's the interior line I'm still not sure about, and the two ends I mentioned have to come to play.

The rest of the defense looks good, IMO, but, like you said, it starts up front. Any QB can pick apart a D with all day to throw.

I just don't think Smith is a great pass-rusher. Geathers has a good burst, but he can't do it all himself. The interior line also needs work. I think Peko was a steal last year, but the rest of them (Thornton, Myers, Allen) are getting older and would make much better backups. Hopefully they will grab a DT early in the draft next spring, but that won't helpt them this year.

[BFritz]

I just don't think Smith is a great pass-rusher. Geathers has a good burst, but he can't do it all himself. The interior line also needs work. I think Peko was a steal last year, but the rest of them (Thornton, Myers, Allen) are getting older and would make much better backups. Hopefully they will grab a DT early in the draft next spring, but that won't helpt them this year.

I agree that Peko is a solid player, as well as agreeing with your assesment about the ends.

However, right now the backers atop the depth chart are Jeanty, Johnson, and Brooks. Brooks is good, but Jeanty and Johnson have been here for a few years, and the defense was never any good. They brought in Everett, Hartwell, and Frazier (hasn't been much besides special teams, but I think he might be solid), and I think Hartwell and Everett could be improvements. I know Hartwell injured his knee either last season or the season before, but I believe that Sports Illustrated named him the best run stuffing backer in the NFL in '01 or '02, and he had more tackles one year than Ray Lewis, so you don't just lose that.

So, why not give any of the new backers a chance to play where the other backers have already failed.

[Bengal Cat]

I agree but I don't know what to say because it looks like it's just not clicking. I think Geathers and Smith have the potential at the ends, but it's the interior line I'm still not sure about, and the two ends I mentioned have to come to play.

The rest of the defense looks good, IMO, but, like you said, it starts up front. Any QB can pick apart a D with all day to throw.

I know its early to start pointing fingers as the season hasn't even started. But I for one would be ready to see Bresnahan go if this defense does not improve. I wouldn't mind seeing Marvin take over the defensive reigns. Leslie Frazier wasn't getting it done. Now Bresnahan has done nothing up to this point to take it to a higher level than Frazier. A lot of the defenses weaknesses were masked in 2005 by causing a record number of turnovers. Truth is, you don't get those turnovers every game. The point comes when you have to go out there and stop people. You have to get off the field on third down. Whats become obvious is "take care of the ball and you can beat the Bengal defense". It would be a shame for players such as Carson, Chad & TJ to waste the prime of their careers because we didn't have enough sense to bring someone in here that could build a good enough defense to give this team a chance to win a championship.

But as I stated earlier, the season hasn't started. Maybe once the lights go on for real, this D will show us something, Time will tell.....GO BENGALS!!!!!!!!!

[BFritz]

I know its early to start pointing fingers as the season hasn't even started. But I for one would be ready to see Bresnahan go if this defense does not improve. I wouldn't mind seeing Marvin take over the defensive reigns. Leslie Frazier wasn't getting it done. Now Bresnahan has done nothing up to this point to take it to a higher level than Frazier. A lot of the defenses weaknesses were masked in 2005 by causing a record number of turnovers. Truth is, you don't get those turnovers every game. The point comes when you have to go out there and stop people. You have to get off the field on third down. Whats become obvious is "take care of the ball and you can beat the Bengal defense". It would be a shame for players such as Carson, Chad & TJ to waste the prime of their careers because we didn't have enough sense to bring someone in here that could build a good enough defense to give this team a chance to win a championship.

But as I stated earlier, the season hasn't started. Maybe once the lights go on for real, this D will show us something, Time will tell.....GO BENGALS!!!!!!!!!

Beautiful:notworthy simply beautiful.......... I don't need a top ten defense, just maybe top 15 to 18. The Colts D was terrible all year, then stepped it up in the post season, maybe the time's come for the Bengals D to step up in the big games:1:

:popcorn: <--------------me from my incredible seats in Paul Brown, watching us destroy the AFC North Divisional Race, and then bringing home the bacon in the playoffs.

[More Cowbell]

I know its early to start pointing fingers as the season hasn't even started. But I for one would be ready to see Bresnahan go if this defense does not improve. I wouldn't mind seeing Marvin take over the defensive reigns. Leslie Frazier wasn't getting it done. Now Bresnahan has done nothing up to this point to take it to a higher level than Frazier. A lot of the defenses weaknesses were masked in 2005 by causing a record number of turnovers. Truth is, you don't get those turnovers every game. The point comes when you have to go out there and stop people. You have to get off the field on third down. Whats become obvious is "take care of the ball and you can beat the Bengal defense". It would be a shame for players such as Carson, Chad & TJ to waste the prime of their careers because we didn't have enough sense to bring someone in here that could build a good enough defense to give this team a chance to win a championship.

Exactly, the Bengals D was horrible last year at getting off the field on third down! It seemed like the run defense was what got all the bad press, but it was the pass defense that really let the team down by allowing the other team to keep moving the chains. Just too many 10-12 yard receptions on 3rd-and-9 last year. I'm not sure what the pass defense was ranked, but I know it was lower then the run D. Hopefully, a healthy Joseph, a rejuvenated O'Neal, and the energy provided by the rookie safeties will change things.

[BFritz]

Exactly, the Bengals D was horrible last year at getting off the field on third down! It seemed like the run defense was what got all the bad press, but it was the pass defense that really let the team down by allowing the other team to keep moving the chains. Just too many 10-12 yard receptions on 3rd-and-9 last year. I'm not sure what the pass defense was ranked, but I know it was lower then the run D. Hopefully, a healthy Joseph, a rejuvenated O'Neal, and the energy provided by the rookie safeties will change things.

Our secondary could end up being solid, but any QB can pick apart a D if he has all day to throw.

[More Cowbell]

Our secondary could end up being solid, but any QB can pick apart a D if he has all day to throw.

I agree that part of the fault lies with the line for not getting enough pressure, but that doesn't absolve the secondary of their responsibility for last year. They would consistently give way too much cushion, allowing a receiver to camp out wide-open just beyond the first-down marker. Now, this strategy may prevent big plays, but it still keeps the chains moving and makes the defense as a whole get very tired the longer they are out there.

[Bengal Cat]

I agree that part of the fault lies with the line for not getting enough pressure, but that doesn't absolve the secondary of their responsibility for last year. They would consistently give way too much cushion, allowing a receiver to camp out wide-open just beyond the first-down marker. Now, this strategy may prevent big plays, but it still keeps the chains moving and makes the defense as a whole get very tired the longer they are out there.

I get sick of hearing the offense being blamed for the defense being on the field too long. Seems like if our offense doesn't get a couple of first downs everytime they go out there, then they are causing the defense to be on the field too much. Maybe if our defense would try stopping someone, they might get off the field. 13 play 80 yard drives will get you tired.....lol.... Right More?

[More Cowbell]

I get sick of hearing the offense being blamed for the defense being on the field too long. Seems like if our offense doesn't get a couple of first downs everytime they go out there, then they are causing the defense to be on the field too much. Maybe if our defense would try stopping someone, they might get off the field. 13 play 80 yard drives will get you tired.....lol.... Right More?

I think you're agreeing with me, right Cat? Because I certainly wasn't blaming the Bengals' offense for the defense's struggles.

The problem with the Bengals' secondary is that even though they may not give up a lot of big plays, they still keep allowing the other team to get first downs. When the other team continuously moves the chains, they will score a lot, keep our offense off the field, and keep the entire defense sucking wind all game.

[Bengal Cat]

I think you're agreeing with me, right Cat? Because I certainly wasn't blaming the Bengals' offense for the defense's struggles.

The problem with the Bengals' secondary is that even though they may not give up a lot of big plays, they still keep allowing the other team to get first downs. When the other team continuously moves the chains, they will score a lot, keep our offense off the field, and keep the entire defense sucking wind all game.

Yes I agree with you. As i said in another post....teams are dinking & dunking us to death with short passes. Its almost like we are in prevent mode without being in prevent formation. I guess Chuck is pleased with it though. Heres a quote from him after the Saints game last week......

Bresnahan"Our coverage was better. Not any big plays to speak of with the longest pass 19 (yards) and the longest run nine," Bresnahan said. "But we have to be more consistent."

I don't know about you guys, but I'd rather take a chance on our DB's covering the big play than letting teams just walk down the field easily and scoring, all the while burning 8 minutes off the clock. Give a team a shot at the big play and more than likely, they don't complete it.......takes a perfect pass (longer) and catch........unlike the short stuff. Also More.....is it just me or do our DB's hardly ever get up to the line of scrimmage and try to bump a reciever off his pattern within the 5 yards? IMO this defensive scheme is not aggressive enough.

Exactly what you said More.

[ComeFlyWithMe]

If Greathers is a starter, the DL will have much more power up front.

[BFritz]

I don't know about you guys, but I'd rather take a chance on our DB's covering the big play than letting teams just walk down the field easily and scoring, all the while burning 8 minutes off the clock. Give a team a shot at the big play and more than likely, they don't complete it.......takes a perfect pass (longer) and catch........unlike the short stuff. Also More.....is it just me or do our DB's hardly ever get up to the line of scrimmage and try to bump a reciever off his pattern within the 5 yards? IMO this defensive scheme is not aggressive enough.

Exactly what you said More.

I agree with the idea, but most years I would have said that the Bengals secondary doesn't have enough talent to cover anyone one-on-one, but this year I believe that they'll be able to cover receivers one-on-one, with Joseph and O'Neal, maybe hall taking slot receivers or one of the corner spots, and then a backer or someone picking up the tight end or backs out of the back field. Like I've said in previous posts, that plan was assuming that the new backers would be an improvement, but it looks right now like we have the same old group starting, out of which I think Brooks should be the only one starting.