[Big Daddy Bull]

There are easily 5 better all-time resumes than that, so no, not just on that.

Ok Thanks, no need to mention name then.

[nemo]

For some reason Jim Matney isn’t on this document. His career record is 297 wins and 130 losses.

That's a glaring omission, but I believe the KHSAA only compiles statistics that are submitted to them, which they then verify. There are many omissions throughout the record books over many sports. Were all of Coach Matney's 200+ wins in Kentucky?

Also not on this list:
Coach Beatty joined the 200 win club in 2016 and is now 245-44. Coach Morris also joined in '16 and is now 252-50 (2 shy of his dad). Coach Smith should be added this year. Adding to another post by Hatz, I think his record is 211-44. To the best of my knowledge, these are all correct.

For a list of coaches championship game records (through the 2018 season) -

https://khsaa.org/records/football/coachesadvancing.pdf

[Boomer_Sooner]

For some reason Jim Matney isn’t on this document. His career record is 297 wins and 130 losses.

When was his first season as a head coach?!

[Buc-a-roo]

When was his first season as a head coach?!

I think it was 84

[Coach Booth]

I think it was 84

Yes it was in 1984

[Hatz]

That's a glaring omission, but I believe the KHSAA only compiles statistics that are submitted to them, which they then verify. There are many omissions throughout the record books over many sports. Were all of Coach Matney's 200+ wins in Kentucky?

Also not on this list:
Coach Beatty joined the 200 win club in 2016 and is now 245-44. Coach Morris also joined in '16 and is now 252-50 (2 shy of his dad). Coach Smith should be added this year. Adding to another post by Hatz, I think his record is 211-44. To the best of my knowledge, these are all correct.

For a list of coaches championship game records (through the 2018 season) -

https://khsaa.org/records/football/coachesadvancing.pdf

Smith also had wins before Boyle. :Thumbs:

[OutlawJoseyWales]

In terms of active coaches, there have been plenty mentioned....no real need in mentioning Haywood, Beatty, etc ,etc again. Goes without saying, those guys are at the very top of any list. However, couple of names that should be seriously considered:

Doug Preston at Franklin Simpson. Took FS to three straight championship games, winning the last two. He has done a fantastic job wherever he's been. Any team would do well to have him running their program.

Scroggins. Not a huge fan, especially after all the crying and whining over the "edited clips" of the Belfry/DeSales game.....but the dude can coach. Again...he's got to be in the conversation with 4 championships.

I think Hillard Howard deserves to be on most, if not all top 10 listings. However, I think he's too far removed and had lost too much shine when he retired. But.....he was a dandy. hands down.

[Woodsman]

If Lynn Ray is 25 and dale mueller is 21.....that list means nothing. It shows nothing more than longevity.

[Woodsman]

What I, looking for from a coach is a proven track record and someone who is not on the twilight of their career. I want someone who energizes their program and draws in talent. Someone who is relevant without coaching for eons.

[Real Badman]

How many of these guys are good coaches vs having really good talent?

[Gus McCrae]

In terms of active coaches, there have been plenty mentioned....no real need in mentioning Haywood, Beatty, etc ,etc again. Goes without saying, those guys are at the very top of any list. However, couple of names that should be seriously considered:

Doug Preston at Franklin Simpson. Took FS to three straight championship games, winning the last two. He has done a fantastic job wherever he's been. Any team would do well to have him running their program.

Scroggins. Not a huge fan, especially after all the crying and whining over the "edited clips" of the Belfry/DeSales game.....but the dude can coach. Again...he's got to be in the conversation with 4 championships.

I think Hillard Howard deserves to be on most, if not all top 10 listings. However, I think he's too far removed and had lost too much shine when he retired. But.....he was a dandy. hands down.

I agree. I've always felt Coach Howard had left way too early. He did so much for PHS by being the first to guide his Panthers to the 1-A crown in 1987,88, and 89. First HC in the State to make history by doing that.(threepeat) Who knows, had he stayed the course, he might even be right up there with Coach Haywood, and a few others as far as wins and success, even with a smaller feeder program because he got the most out of what was available to him. He no doubt is very proud of his former star player, HC Chris McNamee and his staff.

[Hound05]

How many of these guys are good coaches vs having really good talent?

Herron at Wburg probably does more than anyone with less

[Real Badman]

Herron at Wburg probably does more than anyone with less

I think Nelson County is open.

Lets find out.

[99PIRATEFAN]

In terms of active coaches, there have been plenty mentioned....no real need in mentioning Haywood, Beatty, etc ,etc again. Goes without saying, those guys are at the very top of any list. However, couple of names that should be seriously considered:

Doug Preston at Franklin Simpson. Took FS to three straight championship games, winning the last two. He has done a fantastic job wherever he's been. Any team would do well to have him running their program.

Scroggins. Not a huge fan, especially after all the crying and whining over the "edited clips" of the Belfry/DeSales game.....but the dude can coach. Again...he's got to be in the conversation with 4 championships.

I think Hillard Howard deserves to be on most, if not all top 10 listings. However, I think he's too far removed and had lost too much shine when he retired. But.....he was a dandy. hands down.

Scroggins has 5 Championships 07, 08, 2010, 2011, 2012 all against Belfry except 08 against Breathitt Co. so you just about have to put him in the conversation.

[RAMDAD50]

Hillard Howard is on any serious list. Pikeville three-peat first in history and gave everyone else a roadmap on how to try to do it.

Yeah .....start a pipe line of Texas football players Bahahahahah!!
I’m messing with ya Jet!! Hehehe

[jlocke]

The coaches that are most impressive to me are the ones who take an off brand and turn them into winners. Coaches like Smith at Boyle, Haywood at Belfry, Hilton at Bell, Matney at Johnson Central. These programs were built by these men. It is far easier to take a perennial winner with great tradition and win with them. It is difficult to take a program that had not won much and turn them into winners/Champions.

[jlocke]

Just adding that Eddie Eviston is currently 88-13 throughout his 7 seasons as a head coach, with 4 state championships, at 2 different schools.

The KHSAA scoreboard has him at 92-22 in 8 seasons. Regardless, he is a phenomenal coach who has had the opportunity to coach at two traditionally strong programs.

[EKUAlum05]

How many of these guys are good coaches vs having really good talent?

The problem is this is not an easy question, it is kind of "Chicken or the egg?'

For example:
It is very easy to discredit what Chuck Smith or Dale Mueller has done when you look at all the high end D-1 talent and even NFL talent each has had. With that said, it was Smith and Mueller's programs from the feeder system up that cultivated that talent and allowed it to reach it's full potential. The ocahces that came after or before them have illustrated they could not maintain at the same level and to me that was very telling that both were great coaches.

To a lesser extent even the same with guys like Haywood, Matney, MacNamee, etc. There are a ton of coaches who says "If I had David Jones or JJ Jude", "If I had that OLine", or "If I was a 1A school with players like...". The truth is that talent not only developed in those programs but they also coached up the role players and glue guys around them.


Where I think there is merit is when you look at who has done "Less with more". For example, Coach Beatty has had a ton of talent in his lap but he has made the most of it. He also has not been shy to play the best of the best from other states. On the flip side, I look at guys like Redman at Male, Ray at CovCath, Schneider at NewCath, Simpson at Henry Clay, and wonder why they did not have more success than they did.

[Real Badman]

The problem is this is not an easy question, it is kind of "Chicken or the egg?'

For example:
It is very easy to discredit what Chuck Smith or Dale Mueller has done when you look at all the high end D-1 talent and even NFL talent each has had. With that said, it was Smith and Mueller's programs from the feeder system up that cultivated that talent and allowed it to reach it's full potential. The ocahces that came after or before them have illustrated they could not maintain at the same level and to me that was very telling that both were great coaches.

To a lesser extent even the same with guys like Haywood, Matney, MacNamee, etc. There are a ton of coaches who says "If I had David Jones or JJ Jude", "If I had that OLine", or "If I was a 1A school with players like...". The truth is that talent not only developed in those programs but they also coached up the role players and glue guys around them.


Where I think there is merit is when you look at who has done "Less with more". For example, Coach Beatty has had a ton of talent in his lap but he has made the most of it. He also has not been shy to play the best of the best from other states. On the flip side, I look at guys like Redman at Male, Ray at CovCath, Schneider at NewCath, Simpson at Henry Clay, and wonder why they did not have more success than they did.

I think Chris MacNamee is a great discussion on the issue. His role at Pike Central was very subpar, so is he a better coach that Eric Ratliff or vice-versa? Would Chris MacNamee had taken Shelby Valley to the State-Semi's? Could Eric Ratliff win a state championship as the HFC at Pikeville?


Their records at Pike Central is all we have to go upon:

CM at PCC:4 Years (16-26)
ER at PCC:4 Years (21-25)

How do we determine who is the better coach?

[Micro-Brew]

Your hatred towards anything Pikeville is amusing. How did all those predictions for you work out? As for your post lets examine this a little further. During CM's run at PCC was the district Lawrence, Belfry and Sheldon Clark? If so those teams were all very very good during that time. PC schedule this year was laughable. Now I'm not bashing ER, I for one think he does do a good job. As for his year he went to the semi-state at SV, they had a very solid team but 2A was beyond terrible at that time, so it was a so called perfect storm for SV of having some good players and a good coach and a cake walk until New Cath smacked them into reality. Could ER do what CM has done at Pikeville? Doubtful, he is a solid defense minded guy but that Wing based offense of his is too predictable and Pikeville would still be looking for #4 and #5. Your discussion has no merit. Could Coach Haywood win at PCC? We could go into all those kinda discussions, but you just like to find a way to prod Pikeville. I would like to raise an interesting question honestly. Name me a small school in Ky that's on the same academic page as Pikeville that has as much success across the athletic board? Football, basketball, baseball, cheer, softball, volleyball, girls basketball, soccer ( boys and girls), and I'm probably leaving out something, but all those programs in the last 10 years have won Regional and State titles. Does that burn the seat of your pants just a little Bad Man? I guess maybe Beechwood, I know they've had a ton of football and baseball success, but not sure about all their other sports. But I guess we can leave that topic for another thread. Cheers pal

[Gus McCrae]

Your hatred towards anything Pikeville is amusing. How did all those predictions for you work out? As for your post lets examine this a little further. During CM's run at PCC was the district Lawrence, Belfry and Sheldon Clark? If so those teams were all very very good during that time. PC schedule this year was laughable. Now I'm not bashing ER, I for one think he does do a good job. As for his year he went to the semi-state at SV, they had a very solid team but 2A was beyond terrible at that time, so it was a so called perfect storm for SV of having some good players and a good coach and a cake walk until New Cath smacked them into reality. Could ER do what CM has done at Pikeville? Doubtful, he is a solid defense minded guy but that Wing based offense of his is too predictable and Pikeville would still be looking for #4 and #5. Your discussion has no merit. Could Coach Haywood win at PCC? We could go into all those kinda discussions, but you just like to find a way to prod Pikeville. I would like to raise an interesting question honestly. Name me a small school in Ky that's on the same academic page as Pikeville that has as much success across the athletic board? Football, basketball, baseball, cheer, softball, volleyball, girls basketball, soccer ( boys and girls), and I'm probably leaving out something, but all those programs in the last 10 years have won Regional and State titles. Does that burn the seat of your pants just a little Bad Man? I guess maybe Beechwood, I know they've had a ton of football and baseball success, but not sure about all their other sports. But I guess we can leave that topic for another thread. Cheers pal

Very well said.irateSho

[Real Badman]

Your hatred towards anything Pikeville is amusing. How did all those predictions for you work out? As for your post lets examine this a little further. During CM's run at PCC was the district Lawrence, Belfry and Sheldon Clark? If so those teams were all very very good during that time. PC schedule this year was laughable. Now I'm not bashing ER, I for one think he does do a good job. As for his year he went to the semi-state at SV, they had a very solid team but 2A was beyond terrible at that time, so it was a so called perfect storm for SV of having some good players and a good coach and a cake walk until New Cath smacked them into reality. Could ER do what CM has done at Pikeville? Doubtful, he is a solid defense minded guy but that Wing based offense of his is too predictable and Pikeville would still be looking for #4 and #5. Your discussion has no merit. Could Coach Haywood win at PCC? We could go into all those kinda discussions, but you just like to find a way to prod Pikeville.

Wasn't trying to hate on Pikeville, but I can. I deleted half your post as it is like you, ridiculous and vexing. I think Chris is a good coach, but to the discussion, can we prove he is one of the best? Can we prove that coaches at other schools are "bad?" I don't know, thus my constructive argument. Feel free to throw in something of substance.

I disagree on your comparison of the schedules player by ER and CM. If you want to compare the schedule played by the two during their tenure you will discover that of those teams he beat, none of them had a winning record. Simply bringing stats into the conversation that have measurability

[Micro-Brew]

Wasn't trying to hate on Pikeville, but I can. I deleted half your post as it is like you, ridiculous and vexing. I think Chris is a good coach, but to the discussion, can we prove he is one of the best? Can we prove that coaches at other schools are "bad?" I don't know, thus my constructive argument. Feel free to throw in something of substance.

I disagree on your comparison of the schedules player by ER and CM. If you want to compare the schedule played by the two during their tenure you will discover that of those teams he beat, none of them had a winning record. Simply bringing stats into the conversation that have measurability

Ill take vexing as a compliment, glad I frustrated and annoyed you. I never once said CM should be in the discussion to be in the top 5 coaches, I just enjoy how you used him, and how you predicted against Pikeville in every big game they played this year. Pikeville is vexing to you and its obvious. I agree it can be a good discussion thread on what makes a coach good vs bad, as you said. Its asinine to compare two coaches who coached at the same school a decade apart. Just as it is silly to compare teams that are decades apart. I will research and see the wins and losses between the two and we can look at it constructively.

[Hambley]

Heck maybe Pikeville should just line up in the wildcat and run it straight up the middle every single play against sub par opponents. Great offensive strategy.

[Real Badman]

Ill take vexing as a compliment, glad I frustrated and annoyed you. I never once said CM should be in the discussion to be in the top 5 coaches, I just enjoy how you used him, and how you predicted against Pikeville in every big game they played this year. Pikeville is vexing to you and its obvious. I agree it can be a good discussion thread on what makes a coach good vs bad, as you said. Its asinine to compare two coaches who coached at the same school a decade apart. Just as it is silly to compare teams that are decades apart. I will research and see the wins and losses between the two and we can look at it constructively.

Let me know when you finish your research.

[Micro-Brew]

So here you go. Looks like both beat some very subpar teams and both lost to teams that had a heart beat. So in looking further into the numbers, 2 of the year CM was at PCC there were only 4 classes and they were in 2a district with Belfry, Pburg, Sheldon Clark, and East Ridge. That was also when only 2 teams were getting in the playoffs. And during this time, Sheldon Clark, of course Belfry ( which really we should just eliminate because PCC has only one time truly threatened to beat Belfry) and Pburg were very good teams. So with the added game and a much weaker district now ( Floyd Central and at least for the last 3 years, a much weaker Lawrence Co) its very possible that their records would almost be similar. Do you agree? I would also add that ER had the benefit of arguably the best all around football player in PCC history in Seth Conn. Would you agree? So my question to you is, do you think that at Pikeville, ER would've had the same success as CM? Did you bring this argument up only because you think ER is a very good coach? Or do you think CM is not a good coach? Did you bring it up because they both happen to coach at a lack luster program a decade apart and you wanted to try to compare and contrast their accomplishments or lack there of? Did you bring it up because one maybe two posters actually mentioned CM or did you bring it up because of your distaste for anything maroon? Is that substance enough or do you want to continue to delve into this further, the comparison of coaches at a program that is by the most part in the football archives of Ky irrelevant?

[Real Badman]

So here you go. Looks like both beat some very subpar teams and both lost to teams that had a heart beat. So in looking further into the numbers, 2 of the year CM was at PCC there were only 4 classes and they were in 2a district with Belfry, Pburg, Sheldon Clark, and East Ridge.
That was also when only 2 teams were getting in the playoffs.

And during this time, Sheldon Clark, of course Belfry ( which really we should just eliminate because PCC has only one time truly threatened to beat Belfry) and Pburg were very good teams. So with the added game and a

much weaker district

now ( Floyd Central and at least for the last 3 years, a much weaker Lawrence Co) its very possible that their records would almost be similar.

Do you agree?

I would also add that ER had the benefit of arguably the

best all around football player in PCC history in Seth Conn.

Would you agree?

So my question to you is, do you think that at Pikeville, ER would've had the same success as CM?

Did you bring this argument up only because you think ER is a very good coach? Or do you think CM is not a good coach?

Did you bring it up because they both happen to coach at a lack luster program a decade apart and you wanted to try to compare and contrast their accomplishments or lack there of?

Did you bring it up because one maybe two posters actually mentioned CM or did you bring it up because of your distaste for anything maroon? Is that substance enough or do you want to continue to delve into this further, the comparison of coaches at a program that is by the most part in the football archives of Ky irrelevant?

1)This is false. Four teams were taken into the playoffs at the time.

2)I believe the district then and now are about the same quality.

3)The only difference is the fact less teams are in the district now.

4) I believe Q. Merchant is the best football player in PCC history.

5) I don't know, that was my whole argument. I would imagine so, but I can't tell alternate history. It's possible, but then again maybe not.

6) I believe it is a conversation worth having. Could CM win 4 games at Jenkins? Could he win a regional championship at SV? Could ER win two state championships at PHS? I don't know, I just thought it was an interesting conversation piece.

[Micro-Brew]

I agree it could be and is a good conversation piece. So in 2005 who were the 4 teams that made the playoffs because PCC did not make it? Was it a 6 team district then? As for district comparison......Belfry=Belfry, SC (then)>PCC (Now), Pburg (Then)>Lawrence (Now) , and ER ( Then)

[Hurricane Storm]

:popcorn:

[Micro-Brew]

As for Merchant, he was def a great player, that's why I said arguably, but I'd still go with Conn because he was multifaceted. It's all good man. I enjoy discussing topics intelligently, I just get a little tired of all your Pikeville digs. You still haven't commented on all your Pikeville beat down prognostications. I agree with you on some of your points though. And for what its worth, Nick Saban couldn't win 4 games at Jenkins at least not until year 2 lol.