[WILDCAT NATION]

New enrollment data shows only 29 1A teams as some have dropped from district play or consolidated. The movement leaves multiple EKY 3 team districts in 1A. Several current 2A and 3A districts in EKY have 5-6 teams and several of the teams in those districts now have 1A and 2A enrollment. How is the KHSAA going to fix this? Who is going to move down to make the 32 teams the KHSAA has always wanted in 1A? What has been discussed? They are now showing Floyd Central as 2A with enrollment higher than most 3A teams in the area. So what's the scoop?

[Single Wing 77]

I would say they'll leave it alone till the next scheduled realignment. Just like they did when Mercer and Harrodsburg consolidated. They let a 5a school play for the 2a title that year.

[I Rule The World]

Can you post enrollment data link... Or where to find it..

[I Rule The World]

https://portal.ksba.org/public/Meeting/A...tID=350458

[I Rule The World]

I think the classes are previous/Current classes from last alignment.. Looks to be a lot of teams that can move around in the next alignment...

[RunItUpTheGut]

Not to get into a big class debate, but I've said this several times....
We need to go to 5 classes. This would greatly benefit the competetion factor. I've never agreed to going back to 4 classes, but 5 is perfect.
Another rule I'd implement is a team must play in there class. No playing up or down no matter the geographical implications.

[EKUAlum05]

Not to get into a big class debate, but I've said this several times....
We need to go to 5 classes. This would greatly benefit the competetion factor. I've never agreed to going back to 4 classes, but 5 is perfect.
Another rule I'd implement is a team must play in there class. No playing up or down no matter the geographical implications.

Kentucky should be a 4-class state judging by population.

With that said, 5 would be much better than 6.

[TheHotSnakes]

If you look at the difference between the 4 class vs 6 class, there isn't a huge difference between the level of competition.

The only difference is you have more people competing.

[WILDCAT NATION]

I would say they'll leave it alone till the next scheduled realignment. Just like they did when Mercer and Harrodsburg consolidated. They let a 5a school play for the 2a title that year.

I would have agreed had 2 1A's not withdrew from districts. That was a curve ball I don't think they saw coming. That leaves 29 in 1A and I don't see the KHSAA not addressing for this season. Betsy Layne, Holy Cross (Cov), and Trimble County all now have 1A numbers (under 200 average). Betsy Layne would be an easy add to the Pikeville/ Phelps/ Hazard district to make 4 and 30 teams. That also trims a once 6 team 2A district down to 4 with SV/ P'burg/ ER/ Leslie County. Trimble could go in with Frankfort/ KCD/ Holy Cross (Louisville) to make a 4 team 1A district and leave a 4 team 2A dstrict.

I would be surprised if they do not make changes or at least offers for teams to move.

[WILDCAT NATION]

Not to get into a big class debate, but I've said this several times....
We need to go to 5 classes. This would greatly benefit the competetion factor. I've never agreed to going back to 4 classes, but 5 is perfect.
Another rule I'd implement is a team must play in there class. No playing up or down no matter the geographical implications.

Agree. 6 is to many. 5 would be a good fit. 45 teams per class +/-. Should be several teams in all areas for 4/5/6 teams districts that are geographically sound. 6 classes was a bad fix for the private vs public deal a few years back.

[Single Wing 77]

I agree Wildcat nation. That would be s good fix.

I personally like the 6 class system though. It separates the big city schools from the big county schools. I like the fact that The big county schools can legitimately compete for state titles. It also separated the small city/independent schools into their own class. I think that it sometimes waters down competition, but it also offers opportunities for programs to improve.

[WILDCAT NATION]

I agree Wildcat nation. That would be s good fix.

I personally like the 6 class system though. It separates the big city schools from the big county schools. I like the fact that The big county schools can legitimately compete for state titles. It also separated the small city/independent schools into their own class. I think that it sometimes waters down competition, but it also offers opportunities for programs to improve.

The thing a 5 class system would do is fix the 3 team districts. It would align others close enought to have at least 4. Most districts would be 5-6 which would make the playoff matchups better. Just seems like a much better fit.

[Fly Like a Duck]

I would say they'll leave it alone till the next scheduled realignment. Just like they did when Mercer and Harrodsburg consolidated. They let a 5a school play for the 2a title that year.

There was only 4 classes back then. Mercer would have been 3A back then. They went 5A when the new classes came out.

Not all of the 2A schools stayed 2A either when the classes changed in 2007. Many of the 2A schools that year went 3A and some even went right into 4A in 2007 (most notably LaRue County and Louisville Western who were in their region...Mercer beat LaRue 56-14 by the way & also Lone Oak who was in their same semi state). But, the "4A playing 2A" by the non state champs is never brought up. lol

For what it's worth, Mercer was the LAST school in 5A....aka..the smallest; they've been 4A the last 6-7 years as proof of that and will continue to be so. Thing is, they were probably smaller the first 2-3 years of of the merger than they have been anytime since for that that is worth.

Even more; the enrollment difference between them and other 2A schools that year was nowhere near the difference between old 4A and even current 6A schools; so I've never really understood the focus on Mercer...well, I do, because they won it all.

Didn't Harlan County play in 3A when they first merged and were a 5A school? Well, not sure why I asked; because I know they did.

[Fly Like a Duck]

5 would be perfect. I agree fellas.

[I Rule The World]

There was only 4 classes back then. Mercer would have been 3A back then. They went 5A when the new classes came out.

Not all of the 2A schools stayed 2A either when the classes changed in 2007. Many of the 2A schools that year went 3A and some even went right into 4A in 2007 (most notably LaRue County and Louisville Western who were in their region...Mercer beat LaRue 56-14 by the way & also Lone Oak who was in their same semi state). But, the "4A playing 2A" by the non state champs is never brought up. lol

For what it's worth, Mercer was the LAST school in 5A....aka..the smallest; they've been 4A the last 6-7 years as proof of that and will continue to be so. Thing is, they were probably smaller the first 2-3 years of of the merger than they have been anytime since for that that is worth.

Even more; the enrollment difference between them and other 2A schools that year was nowhere near the difference between old 4A and even current 6A schools; so I've never really understood the focus on Mercer...well, I do, because they won it all.

Didn't Harlan County play in 3A when they first merged and were a 5A school? Well, not sure why I asked; because I know they did.

Harlan Co. has always been 5A, haven't they? I know when the school was first formed, they're enrollment was 6A, but it was Geographically unfeasible for them to play in 6A...

[RunItUpTheGut]

Kentucky should be a 4-class state judging by population.

With that said, 5 would be much better than 6.

I just don't agree.
Unless there was a division 2 of 4A for the major enrollment schools and big privates.

It will never be "fair" to expect the Harlan and Whitley counties of the world to be in the same class as Trinity and Male.

If we don't care about being "fair", then get rid of all classes.

[RunItUpTheGut]

Harlan Co. has always been 5A, haven't they? I know when the school was first formed, they're enrollment was 6A, but it was Geographically unfeasible for them to play in 6A...

Harlan County was allowed to play in 2A or 3A there first year of existence in 2008.
After that they were properly placed in 5A.

The KHSAA has done this several times.

[TheHotSnakes]

I just don't agree.
Unless there was a division 2 of 4A for the major enrollment schools and big privates.

It will never be "fair" to expect the Harlan and Whitley counties of the world to be in the same class as Trinity and Male.

If we don't care about being "fair", then get rid of all classes.

I was having a very similar conversation earlier.

The difference between a 6 class and a 4 class is you have a lot more teams playing teams they shouldn't be playing, and ultimately can't compete with.

There's always going to be bad teams. And, some teams will probably always be bad. 4, 5, or 6 classes won't change that.

In a 6 class system, the middle of 1A wouldn't be that much larger than small 1A. In a 4 class system, you've got Fulton City and Glasgow possibly in the same classification. And for some quick numbers, Fulton's KHSAA roster had 17 kids. Glasgow had 59.


The fewer classes hurt teams on the margins far more, because they end up usually playing someone way out of their league. And I have more of an issue with that, as well as the pretty big county schools being lumped in with T and X, than I ever will have with just about anything else concerning the size and amount of classes.

[Single Wing 77]

There was only 4 classes back then. Mercer would have been 3A back then. They went 5A when the new classes came out.

Not all of the 2A schools stayed 2A either when the classes changed in 2007. Many of the 2A schools that year went 3A and some even went right into 4A in 2007 (most notably LaRue County and Louisville Western who were in their region...Mercer beat LaRue 56-14 by the way & also Lone Oak who was in their same semi state). But, the "4A playing 2A" by the non state champs is never brought up. lol

For what it's worth, Mercer was the LAST school in 5A....aka..the smallest; they've been 4A the last 6-7 years as proof of that and will continue to be so. Thing is, they were probably smaller the first 2-3 years of of the merger than they have been anytime since for that that is worth.

Even more; the enrollment difference between them and other 2A schools that year was nowhere near the difference between old 4A and even current 6A schools; so I've never really understood the focus on Mercer...well, I do, because they won it all.

Didn't Harlan County play in 3A when they first merged and were a 5A school? Well, not sure why I asked; because I know they did.

I know they were a 3a team back then. I was giving reference to todays alignment. While they had fewer kids back then, they were much more experienced and talented. They had two teams worth of experienced starters. Something they'll never have again.

ALL that being said, my post wasn't an attack on mercer or their 2a title. I only mentioned them because their title makes them the most memorable to have played down after consolidation. Sounds like you're a little on the defensive side though buddy. Something eating at your conscience?

[Fly Like a Duck]

I know they were a 3a team back then. I was giving reference to todays alignment. While they had fewer kids back then, they were much more experienced and talented. They had two teams worth of experienced starters. Something they'll never have again.

ALL that being said, my post wasn't an attack on mercer or their 2a title. I only mentioned them because their title makes them the most memorable to have played down after consolidation. Sounds like you're a little on the defensive side though buddy. Something eating at your conscience?

You took that as a defensive reply?

[EKUAlum05]

Soooo.. I do have a 4-class alignment idea... obviously it would require bigger changes than just an alignment though.

So here are some caveats.

Division 1= Smallest School Division
Division 2= Mid-Sized School Division
Division 3= Tier 1 Schools
Division 4= Tier 2 Schools

In Divisions 1, 2, and 3 there will be six districts and 3 regions per Semi-State of the Division.
Division 4 will be only 4 Districts and 2 Regions per Semi-State of the Division. It would follow the traditional playoff format we are used to

Divisions 1-3
Playoffs would change. Each team will compete against their District but also be required to play one team from their "Region" on a rotating basis. The Semi-State would be seeded at the end of the regular season. Each District Champion would automatically qualify and the top two remaining top District finishers would also qualify.

The six District Champions would automatically qualify for the Top 6 seeds and are then seeded using a CPU system. Of the remaining 12 qualifying teams who did not win their District they will then be seeded appropriately by the CPU, the last 4 seeded teams in each Semi-State (teams 15-18) will be part of a "play-in" for Round 1 while all other teams get a much needed week off.

The Regional game each team is required to play would serve as the first tie-breaker if needed at the end of the regular season. If a tie still exists the same CPU system will break the tie.

[EKUAlum05]

DIVISION 1
- This is the class with the most number of teams. There are 72 total teams in this class with an even 6 teams per District. This should help with scheduling for the smaller schools as this means between District Play and their rotating regional game they will already have 6 scheduled games.

R1-D1
Fulton City
Fulton County
Crittenden Co
Ballard Memorial
Murray
Trigg County

R1-D2
Todd Central
Union County
Russellville
McLean County
Butler County
Webster County

R2-D1
Glasgow
Monroe Co
Metcalfe County
Green County
Caverna
Edmonson County

R2-D2
Somerset
Clinton County
Casey County
Berea
Campbellsville
Jackson County

R3-D1
Shawnee
KCD
Lou. Holy Cross
Henry County
Ft. Knox
Eminence

R3-D2
Bardstown
Thomas Nelson
Washington County
Bethlehem
Larue County
Hancock County





R4-D1
Walton-Verona
Cov. Holy Cross
Carroll County
Gallatin County
Trimble County
Owen County

R4-D2
Dayton
Bellevue
Ludlow
Newport
Lloyd Memorial
Bishop Brossart


R5-D1
Frankfort
Paris
Bracken County
Bath County
Nicholas County
Morgan County

R5-D2
Fairview
Raceland
Paintsville
Pburg
Magoffin County
Betsy Layne

R6-D1
Pikeville
Phelps
Jenkins
Shelby Valley
East Ridge
Hazard

R6-D2
Harlan
Pineville
Lynn Camp
Leslie County
Middlesboro
Wburg

[EKUAlum05]

DIVISION 2
- Teams noticeably playing up for competition and/or Geography purposes:
CAL, DeSales, Mayfield, OCath, Danville, LCA, Beechwood

-You will see some teams "playing down" do to competition/geography as well such as Logan County

- Same as above except these will be 5 team Districts, this gives one more game of flexibility to try and schedule in Non-District


R1-D1
Mayfield
Caldwell County
Pad. Tilghman
Calloway County
Ft. Campbell

R1-D2
Franklin-Simpson
Allen County-Scottsville
Ocath
Logan Co
Hopkins Central

R2-D1
Breckinridge County
Hart County
Adair County
Russell County
Taylor County

R2-D2
Western
DeSales
Etown
Moore
Central

R3-D1
Spencer County
Collins
Nelson County
CAL
Waggener

R3-D2
Garrard County
Marion County
Boyle County
Danville
Mercer County



R4-D1
Beechwood
Holmes
Western Hills
NewCath
Pendleton County

R4-D2
Fleming County
Mason County
Harrison County
Rowan County
Bourbon County


R5-D1
Lewis County
Boyd County
Russell
Greenup County
East Carter

R5-D2
Belfry
Sheldon Clark
Pike Central
Floyd Central
Lawrence Co


R6-D1
Corbin
Bell County
Knox Central
Rockcastle County
McCreary County


R6-D2
Breathitt County
Perry Central
Knott Central
Powell County
Estill County

[EKUAlum05]

Division 3

- This is the catch all for Elite 4A schools, 5A schools, and "playing down" 6A Schools
- Each District has at least 4 teams, but some Districts will have 5 teams
- Same rules apply to the playoffs as above
- Of note, this allows for an "All-Warren County" District and an "All-Jefferson County" Region 3

R1-D1
Graves Co
Marshall Co
Christian Co
Hopkinsville
Madisonville

R1-D2
Owensboro
Apollo
Muhlenberg Co
Ohio Co
Grayson Co


R2-D1
Bowling Green
Greenwood
South Warren
Warren East
Warren Central

R2-D2
John Hardin
Barren Co
Bull. Cen.
Bull. East
N. Bull.

R3-D1
Valley
Doss
Fairdale
Iroquois

R3-D2
Atherton
Fern Creek
Southern
Seneca



R4-D1
N. Oldham
S. Oldham
Oldham Co
Shelby County
Anderson Co

R4-D2
Highlands
CovCath
Scott
Grant Co
Montgomery Co


R5-D1
Mad. Southern
W. Jessamine
Woodford Co
E. Jessamine

R5-D2
Pulaski Co
Southwestern
Wayne Co
Lincoln Co


R6-D1
Whitley Co
Clay Co
North Laurel
South Laurel


R6-D2
Ashland
Johnson Central
Letcher Central
Harlan County

[EKUAlum05]

Division 4
- As mentioned this is a much smaller and exclusive class.
- With 4 districts per Semi-State it will only be a 24 team playoff. Each District winner will receive a BYE and an automatic Top 4 seed. The remaining 8 teams per Semi-State will then be seeded like the other Divisions.
- Region 2 District 1 is a 3-team district featuring powerhouses Male, X, and T. This allows these schools to have a very free schedule to play out of state schools and strive for a National Ranking. It also assures that only the District Champion can be a Top 4 seed.

- The small districts will allow these large schools freedom to schedule however best fit to build their program to compete with the Big 3. It also will allow for the better smaller division teams to have a better shot at adding these teams to their schedule.

R1-D1
McCracken Co
Henderson Co
Meade Co
Daviess Co

R1-D2
North Hardin
Central Hardin
PRP
Butler

R2-D1
Trinity
Male
St. Xavier

R2-D2
Dupont Manual
Ballard
Eastern
Jeffersontown


R3-D1
Paul Dunbar
Tates Creek
Lafayette
Henry Clay

R3-D2
Bryan Station
Fred. Douglass
Madison Central
Clark County


R4-D1
Cooper
Ryle
Conner
Boone County


R4-D2
Scott County
Simon Kenton
Campbell County
Dixie Heights

[blue55]

EKUAlum05, I for one like this set up you have laid out. I'm sure there are some who can find fault.

[Brooks4Prez]

EKUAlum05 please call the KHSAA now and don't hang up until they listen to your plan. I love it.

[EKUAlum05]

EKUAlum05 please call the KHSAA now and don't hang up until they listen to your plan. I love it.

What jacks up realignment plans are the polar ends of the spectrum.

The smallest schools who you have to account for travel and the impact of cost.

The biggest of the big schools that noone can compete with.

I think we give in to the fallacy that we need to simply use the same system for all classes and each class should have the same number of teams, but in actuality if you are flexible on respecting those two issues and addressing them first, the rest plays itself out.

I honestly feel with this 4 class proposal:
1. You best prepare teams to compete against the Big 3 in 6A, but at the same time you don't exactly completely handicap those teams for their success.

2. You make life easier for small schools

3. You get a seeded playoff system that everyone has wanted, you eliminate the majority of non-competitive First Round Games, and you avoid having a 3-7 Fairview having to drive 7 hours to undefeated Mayfield

4. The two middle classes become ultra competitive and "cake walks" to the 3rd Round are almost impossible.

5. I honestly think this helps with the issue of scheduling so many teams have. This should free up a lot of the big schools and should guarantee games for lots of small teams

6. It still preserves a lot of geographical rivalries and with the rotating game against a Regional foe it also lets old rivalries to have a chance of being renewed or for weaker teams who may not get to schedule powerhouse programs to have their chance to measure up.

7. This still values the regular season and rewards teams for winning their District. It also weeds out the field so only teams deserving of the playoffs get in and if they are stilla weak team and the lowest seeds, they have to earn their way a little more.


Does a 5-class system make it easier and make less change? Absolutely

But as I stated before, KY's population is more conducive to a 4 class system if you want to maximize competitiveness and this is a way you could achieve that.

[WILDCAT NATION]

What jacks up realignment plans are the polar ends of the spectrum.

The smallest schools who you have to account for travel and the impact of cost.

The biggest of the big schools that noone can compete with.

I think we give in to the fallacy that we need to simply use the same system for all classes and each class should have the same number of teams, but in actuality if you are flexible on respecting those two issues and addressing them first, the rest plays itself out.

I honestly feel with this 4 class proposal:
1. You best prepare teams to compete against the Big 3 in 6A, but at the same time you don't exactly completely handicap those teams for their success.

2. You make life easier for small schools

3. You get a seeded playoff system that everyone has wanted, you eliminate the majority of non-competitive First Round Games, and you avoid having a 3-7 Fairview having to drive 7 hours to undefeated Mayfield

4. The two middle classes become ultra competitive and "cake walks" to the 3rd Round are almost impossible.

5. I honestly think this helps with the issue of scheduling so many teams have. This should free up a lot of the big schools and should guarantee games for lots of small teams

6. It still preserves a lot of geographical rivalries and with the rotating game against a Regional foe it also lets old rivalries to have a chance of being renewed or for weaker teams who may not get to schedule powerhouse programs to have their chance to measure up.


Does a 5-class system make it easier and make less change? Absolutely

But as I stated before, KY's population is more conducive to a 4 class system if you want to maximize competitiveness and this is a way you could achieve that.

I love the layout. Wish it was in place right now. I feel the vast majority of coaches and AD's would reshedule everything to make this a go immediately. I can validate that the team I follow and support would be placed EXACTLY where they should be both geographically and demographically. It also brings in old rivalries that existed in the 4 class system. The others I am familiar with are a match as well. This is a win for everyone. This proposal should FLOOD the KHSAA offices for immediate review and discussion.

[I Rule The World]

You honestly really need to get this all together on paper so we could all get on board with sending it to the KHSAA.. Great set-up!! Best I've seen..