[bo67]

Long way to high school football again. So, let's use basketball as an example. Do you start your 5 best players? Or sit 2 of them and start your 8th and 9th best players?

[Iam4thecats]

What?

[pjdoug]

common sense ain't so common.

[Buc-a-roo]

This should be in the basketball forum, even though I doubt it will make any sense over there either. :thatsfunn

[Big Five-0-]

Drink it all down, pass it all around!

[64SUR]

Long way to high school football again. So, let's use basketball as an example. Do you start your 5 best players? Or sit 2 of them and start your 8th and 9th best players?

:HitWall: :HitWall: :HitWall: Bo67 I would atleasts start my 6th or 7th players? First. :biglmao:

[mantax]

This thread is in reference to 2-platooning in high school football. Bo is basically asking if you should always play your best or do you play the 22 guys that fill the positions on the field. In other words, instead of playing your 10th best player on defense, you have him as a backup at tight end. At least that is what I think he is trying to get at.

[Spirit100]

This thread is in reference to 2-platooning in high school football. Bo is basically asking if you should always play your best or do you play the 22 guys that fill the positions on the field. In other words, instead of playing your 10th best player on defense, you have him as a backup at tight end. At least that is what I think he is trying to get at.

That some good translating mantax...much better than the fella signing nonsense at Mandelas memorial service.

:thumpsup:

Depends on who you're game planning for and how much depth you have.

[bo67]

MANTAX got it. I could comment on the other posts on here. But they are what they are.

[Real Badman]

Play who gets the job done.

[bo67]

Real Badman hit the nail on the head.

[SLHSCard]

I think when and if it can be done right platooning is a huge advantage. However, it is very difficult and is a tough process to adapt. It has done wonders at CCH and Highlands over the past few years. To the best of my knowledge Highlands has platoons within their platoons at the skill spots, impressive to watch for a smaller school in Ky.

[RunItUpTheGut]

Ive never been a fan of platooning.

[oneijoe]

IMO, the most important place to develop competent depth is across the O and D lines. If a team can come up with 8 competent hosses, they are wayyy ahead. This allows breaks as often as one series in three for each spot on the OL and even more on the DL. Not far behind is the need to develop 1-2 more LB/FB/TE types.

While it's tempting to simply rank linemen on strength and ability, I believe a fresh #6-8 will beat a gassed #1-5 more often than not. Of course, that's dependent on the disparity of ability (which is why I used the word "competent" earlier).

[Scotty_Bronson]

I think it is something Raceland could benefit from with their JR and Soph classes next ueat having around 12 carbon copies in their lineman. Lots of 5'10"-6'0" 210-230 guys. If they can develop the young guys and allow their 6'2 295 and 6'0" 300 lb mobile DTs(Wallace and Sargent) only go one way, it could pay dividends. Especially against the other single A competition.

[sstack]

Long way to high school football again. So, let's use basketball as an example. Do you start your 5 best players? Or sit 2 of them and start your 8th and 9th best players?

Bo, it is very hard to explain why you have a football talent like Baue Hodge only play a couple of plays on offense when he could have been a huge help on a struggling defense. And he is just one of a few I could mention. It was impressive to see them running 8-10 high quality WR's in and out on offense, but it kept too many quality players off the field on both offense and defense. It is ok to do when quality of teams you are playing allow you to, but when someone like Collins steps it up, you need to keep the strongest players on the field and not sitting on the sidelines watching. Hodge would have been a star on most any team last year and at Highlands he was lucky to get in on a third of offensive plays and none on D. Big waste of talent. A possible D1 talent who will basically get one year (his Sr year) of full playing time.

[Granny Bear]

Ive never been a fan of platooning.

Why? And I'm not being flip here, either. I would really like to hear your rationale.

[Iam4thecats]

Bo, it is very hard to explain why you have a football talent like Baue Hodge only play a couple of plays on offense when he could have been a huge help on a struggling defense. And he is just one of a few I could mention. It was impressive to see them running 8-10 high quality WR's in and out on offense, but it kept too many quality players off the field on both offense and defense. It is ok to do when quality of teams you are playing allow you to, but when someone like Collins steps it up, you need to keep the strongest players on the field and not sitting on the sidelines watching. Hodge would have been a star on most any team last year and at Highlands he was lucky to get in on a third of offensive plays and none on D. Big waste of talent. A possible D1 talent who will basically get one year (his Sr year) of full playing time.

Thats the stupidest nit picky thing I've ever heard. Highlands is 39-1 in the playoffs the last 8 years using a full platoon system. Bowling Green is 44-0 overall the last 3 years using a full platoon system. It's really hurting their programs. Scott co just won 6A by platooning and we all know the teams that won that for however many years platoon (X,T)
So the ONLY team in recent memory to win 4,5,or 6A without a full platoon is Collins. So all of a sudden play the top 11 is now better? Hogwash!
Lets get UK- UL- and the Bengals to play both ways and see how that goes.

[bo67]

Thank you Sstack. You see the light.

[charlie22]

If you have enough talent to be able to 2 platoon (and by "be able" I mean to be able toman every position with really good football players) then I think a coach should do so. The benefits of doing so are many: 1. a good athlete going one way against an evenly good athlete will be fresher at the end of the game; 2. the player going only one way can be coached up during a game while the other squad is on the field, making during game adjustments much, much easier to make (kind of hard for the oline coach to talk to his unit when a couple or several of them are out there on the defense; 3. a player will get many, many more practice reps and much more coaching at his position if he is only playing on one side of the ball, which should mean his execution at that position will be better than if he was practicing two positions (one on each side of the ball); and 4. (this sort of ties into reason 3.) to the extent a game plan calls for big adjustments to be made during the week to prepare for the upcoming opponent, those adjustments are more easily coached and learned by the affected players if they are practicing only one position; 5. by starting 22 different players, it almost always means at a school Highlands size, that every year you will have a very good group of starters returning; and 6. it greats a lot of interest in the football program because there are a whole lot of kid seeing a whole lot of time on the field (which not only helps increase the number of kids participating, it helps from a fundraising perspective).

Having said that, if a team doesn't have the talent to capably man each of the 22 positions, then there is a big risk involved. The difficulty for a coaching staff is being able to accurately assess before the first game whether some of those quality unknown players will be able to become good football players by playoff time. If you decide to go with the two platoon system (not just during games but during practice in order to get the full benefit of two platooning), it is really tough to all of a sudden ask a player to start playing both ways late in the season. Take a DB position for example. If a kid playing WR who hasn't played or practiced defense all season (or maybe a couple of seasons), putting him at DB all of sudden is almost surely to result in blown coverages and missed assignments.

I know Beau Hoge was mentioned by sstack as having been pretty much wasted (my words, not sstack's) this year because he only rotated in at WR. No doubt he would have been an outstanding DB and could have helped us considerably on defense. Problem is, he was also the back up QB. Which meant that if you were going to two platoon practices and he was playing/practicing DB, he wouldn't have been getting any snaps practicing the QB position. Houliston goes down and Hoge really isn't able to come in as the QB. Furthermore, if Hoge is to be the starting QB this coming season, had he played DB this past season, he would have not been honing his QB skills in practices this past year and getting better prepared to be the starting QB this coming season.

Bottom line to me: the issue isn't near as black and white as some would make it be. It's a tough judgment call that needs to be made by the coaches. Perhaps this past season the coaches made the wrong call. But the 2 platoon system has worked well, very well, in each of the other years that it has been in place at Highlands in my opinion. As one of many that has followed the Birds closely for many years, I watched Highlands lose games to teams that 2 platooned (ie, Colerain and Elder) while either being ahead or very close at half time. I'm convinced that the fact we were playing 3, 4 or more players both ways was the difference and why we lost those games to Colerain and Elder. There is zero doubt, zero, in my mind that we would not have beat Cincy X in 09 if the Rollers, Collinsworths, Butens, Schlossers, etc. on that team had been playing both ways. Unlke the prior years when we lost games in the second half, against Cincy X we were still very strong at the end of the game and Cincy X wasn't able to dominate us in the second half.

[Buc-a-roo]

I could comment on the other posts on here. But they are what they are.

You have to spell it out for us. :igiveup:

If you speak in riddles, it is likely we won't get it.

Some of us, we are but humble Pirates. irateSho

[TNT-MB1]

Question is there a player that does particularly good off the bench? I remeber coaching one kid that was good but when he came in as the 6th man he was Great.

[oneijoe]

Bo, it is very hard to explain why you have a football talent like Baue Hodge only play a couple of plays on offense when he could have been a huge help on a struggling defense. And he is just one of a few I could mention. It was impressive to see them running 8-10 high quality WR's in and out on offense, but it kept too many quality players off the field on both offense and defense. It is ok to do when quality of teams you are playing allow you to, but when someone like Collins steps it up, you need to keep the strongest players on the field and not sitting on the sidelines watching. Hodge would have been a star on most any team last year and at Highlands he was lucky to get in on a third of offensive plays and none on D. Big waste of talent. A possible D1 talent who will basically get one year (his Sr year) of full playing time.

And this is the possible flipside of "too much" depth - too many good athletes who might get >30mins/game elsewhere have to hope to shine in their 10 minute "turn".

It's easier to get recruiting recognition when you're the best player on a decent team vs. just another good player on a great team.


:popcorn:

[Iam4thecats]

Yeah, Beau Hodge has been invited to elite 11 already. Last year hurt him bad.

[sstack]

Thats the stupidest nit picky thing I've ever heard. Highlands is 39-1 in the playoffs the last 8 years using a full platoon system. Bowling Green is 44-0 overall the last 3 years using a full platoon system. It's really hurting their programs. Scott co just won 6A by platooning and we all know the teams that won that for however many years platoon (X,T)
So the ONLY team in recent memory to win 4,5,or 6A without a full platoon is Collins. So all of a sudden play the top 11 is now better? Hogwash!
Lets get UK- UL- and the Bengals to play both ways and see how that goes.

I think you misunderstood my point. I am all for the platoon system, but charlies post is spot on, you have to have the horses to run it. This year many feel they had the talent to platoon but were way over loaded with talent on offense over defense ( Do you really need to go 10 deep at WR when some of those athletes would help the D?). Charlie also brought up another good point of discussion, I mentioned that Hodge's talent was not being used and he pointed out the experience he was getting in practice at QB to take over the position his SR year, which is true. My question is, do you play the best/most athletic player or do you play the SR? IMO I think Hodge is going to prove to be a better QB than Houliston. Highlands has over the past 20 years played the SR who has been waiting in the wings. How do others feel?, do you play best player or do you play the SR? I believe you play the best player regardless of what grade they are in, I do not believe you earn a starting spot just because you are a SR. I do realize Houliston did not really have another position he could play, and Hodge did (but Hodge was used very little IMO).

[Iam4thecats]

The beginning of this thread used the words common sense. I put it to all of you. Champions do uncommon things. You are confusing individual talent with the ability to be a cog in a great TEAM. Champions are more often not just the collection of the most individual talent. You do not have to have the "horses" to platoon, platooning eventually creates the "horses". You have to have 6 quality coaches to split up and develop kids at the positions and you have to have some cogs to go in the machine. Its a chicken and egg problem. I'm telling you the 6 coaches and platooning comes first.
I'm trying to give you guys the secrets on a silver platter here and people are rejecting the truth for some reason. This misunderstanding about individual talent is why people constantly accuse winners of cheating or recruiting.

[sstack]

[quote=Iam4thecats]Yeah, Beau Hodge has been invited to elite 11 already. Last year hurt him bad.[/QUOTE]

I am sure he would have loved to play a lot more and practice play is not the same as game play. I am sure Hodges name and family ties helps him get a look that some kids don't!

[Iam4thecats]

Go play somewhere else where they value the stud over the team and don't win championships.

[sstack]

Go play somewhere else where they value the stud over the team and don't win championships.

that is the tough choice many have to make; a top education makes that choice a lot easier for many of the kids at Highlands rather it be the kid or parents making that choice.

[Iam4thecats]

(sarcasm voice) Oh I have it so rough, I have to go to a great school get a great education, and play for football coaches who value the team winning championships over what I want to do. Woe is me.