[RunItUpTheGut]

Coach Kevin Kelley of Pulaski Academy in Little Rock, Arkansas, instructs his players to never punt, never field punts, and only do onside kicks, and he claims that math backs up his innovative philosophy. Grantland spent some time with Kelley and his players to learn more about the coach behind the team that once scored 29 points before its opponent touched the ball.

So what do you guys think about this one?
Watch the video. Its actually pretty good and not very long.

Sinc 2003, his team is 124-22 with three state titles and is 10-0 this year heading into the playoffs.
Genius move? Its obvious the math backs it up, and he explains it pretty well. It also seems that in 10 years, teams still struggle to beat his methods.

[YOUTUBE="The Coach Who Never Punts"]AGDaOJAYHfo[/YOUTUBE]


Thoughts?

[pjdoug]

seems like the math would only work if you recover a large percentage of onside kicks and if you're not going to punt you better have a good offense and not turn it over on downs in your own territory lol

[Demarcus ware]

On one hand you want to call it a gimmick, but the math don't lie, it's definitely something different, but let me say this, after seeing some of their game film on the schools website, i'm not sure if they are winning because of the method he uses or if it's because they are a really good football team. Look at their game highlights, pretty damn good team either way, having that extra down every series helps i'm sure. Gotta feel sorry for the team that was down 29-0 before they even touched the ball nicker:

[Demarcus ware]

seems like the math would only work if you recover a large percentage of onside kicks and if you're not going to punt you better have a good offense and not turn it over on downs in your own territory lol

That's the thing, they go for it on 4th down even if they are on their own 2 yard line, crazy yes, but seems to be working for them.

[2dog]

Very interesting indeed.

[KCCFootball]

This is crazy but honestly if you have a bad kicker and some nice hitters on kickoff this is something to try. if you just got 40% of your kicks back throughout a season. and you kickoffed lets say 100 times thats 40 recoveries. But a normal kickoff on average i say the kickoff team gets it on average less than 5%. thats around 5 or less back.

Going on 4th down every time. shew idk about that one just yet. if my team was across the 50 then yes I'd do it every time.

anybody elss agree/disagree?

[mysonis55]

I bet his team don't get into 4th down and long very much, esp on their side of the field. I find it funny that they had Cabot in this one. I went to school there briefly. I also went to Ward Elem for some time. Ward is a feeder school for Cabot. Once you get to 6th or 7th grade you go to Cabot.

I have often thought about why we don't go on 4th and short more often. I also have seen us recently when kicking off from the opposing teams 45, kick the ball into the end zone, which makes no sense. I think you should pooch kick it then. You know you are at least gonna kick the ball 15-20 yards doing that and may come up with the ball. So if you kick it 20 and they signal fair catch, they have the ball on their 25. You gave up 5 yards but had a chance to get the ball back.

[RunItUpTheGut]

This is crazy but honestly if you have a bad kicker and some nice hitters on kickoff this is something to try. if you just got 40% of your kicks back throughout a season. and you kickoffed lets say 100 times thats 40 recoveries. But a normal kickoff on average i say the kickoff team gets it on average less than 5%. thats around 5 or less back.

Going on 4th down every time. shew idk about that one just yet. if my team was across the 50 then yes I'd do it every time.

anybody elss agree/disagree?

According to him, if you are on your own 5 and dont get it on 4th down, the other team takes over and scores 90% of the time. However, if you punt and get it out to midfield, that percentage of them scoring only drop to 77%.
So in other words, go for it on 4th and get it, you still got the ball. Dont get it and they either have a 90% or 77% if you punt. According to him, thats still really high and not worth giving up your 4th down.

[Westside]

Cool post. Thanks Gut.

[panther nation]

I read about this team last year. Makes you wonder why more teams don't try it. But it sure is a gutsy call but it works for them.

[mysonis55]

Fulton Co tried going for it inside their 20 on us several times in one game a few years ago. It didn't work out for them. Of course it wouldn't have if they would have punted either.

[E's Army]

If I have a kid who can boom it I believe in making the other team have to drive a long field. If you don't have a kid who can consistently kick it to the 5 with air under it they are tailor made for returns.

[nky]

plus you don't practice those thing during the week freeing up more time to work on O and D.
Gutsy and bold coaching

[Jumper Dad]

Can't get behind a coach that wears flip flops to practice...

[mandan]

There's a team in Ohio (Kenton) that uses the same philosophy.... and with a spread offense. They've had tremendous success with it for quite a few years. I've seen them play a couple of times. Man they put up the points quickly!! The head coach's son was Missouri's QB (Maty Mauch) vs. UK last week.

[RunItUpTheGut]

Can't get behind a coach that wears flip flops to practice...

Its not uncommon anymore.
I think all of the coaches i had in high school wore flip flops except the great Cotton Adams.
He wore his tennis shoes and would go out and stretch 30 minutes before practice and wait on us to get there.

[sstack]

This coach looks like he is blessed with a lot of talent, which makes this style look like it works better than I think it would. If you have an average or poor team try this method, I think it would be a disaster. Much easier for a superior team to run this against inferior team.

[RunItUpTheGut]

^
Agreed

[topnotch]

If you have the athletes you can do what you want to. If you don't I think you would look like a goat. I wonder what the math would look like if you injected quality of athletes into the equation? I bet the math would look quiet different if you had no speed and the receiving team had exceptional return men or vice versa. I think it would be real stupid to have a super speedser set on the sidelines and let the ball roll down the field when the other team punts the ball . Since the receiving team can't let the ball just roll down the field on the kick offs the other team would recover . The coach has to either teach the players how to catch the ball or recover it each time, I am not a screaming sideline coach but if coach Herron used that method I would be ejected and if he indicated he was going to continue to do that I would draw the line. I would find another team to support or If I couldn't I would go to Forrest Lanes or watch Fox News. Besides football games are not just about winning scores it is watching athletes preform wheather it is the great back returning the football or the punter booming it into the next county.

[Daddycat27]

Great Post GUT! I enjoyed the video and the following posts. It creates a good argument about Philosophies. Very interesting. Obviously it is working to their advantage. What a winning record!!!!

[OffTheHook]

If you have the athletes you can do what you want to. If you don't I think you would look like a goat. I wonder what the math would look like if you injected quality of athletes into the equation? I bet the math would look quiet different if you had no speed and the receiving team had exceptional return men or vice versa. I think it would be real stupid to have a super speedser set on the sidelines and let the ball roll down the field when the other team punts the ball . Since the receiving team can't let the ball just roll down the field on the kick offs the other team would recover . The coach has to either teach the players how to catch the ball or recover it each time, I am not a screaming sideline coach but if coach Herron used that method I would be ejected and if he indicated he was going to continue to do that I would draw the line. I would find another team to support or If I couldn't I would go to Forrest Lanes or watch Fox News. Besides football games are not just about winning scores it is watching athletes preform wheather it is the great back returning the football or the punter booming it into the next county.

Whaaat??? You lost me at "If".

If it's not about "winning scores". Then why in the hell do they have those big scoreboards at EVERY field in the Nation and why do they give out Championships?

Just because he doesn't do it the traditional way. Doesn't make him wrong or an idiot. If I were a parent there. Yeah, I prolly woulda went ape crazy when he started implementing that system and I'm sure most of them did. But, I will say. I have much Respect for a Head Coach that does it HIS way. Wether he succeeds or fails.

It didn't go into tons of detail. But, I would say that once he gets large leads on teams. He prolly squibbs in down the field or if he truely "never punts", he prolly keeps it on the ground on 4th down.

[cuppett777]

Coach Kevin Kelley of Pulaski Academy in Little Rock, Arkansas, instructs his players to never punt, never field punts, and only do onside kicks, and he claims that math backs up his innovative philosophy. Grantland spent some time with Kelley and his players to learn more about the coach behind the team that once scored 29 points before its opponent touched the ball.

So what do you guys think about this one?
Watch the video. Its actually pretty good and not very long.

Sinc 2003, his team is 124-22 with three state titles and is 10-0 this year heading into the playoffs.
Genius move? Its obvious the math backs it up, and he explains it pretty well. It also seems that in 10 years, teams still struggle to beat his methods.

[YOUTUBE="The Coach Who Never Punts"]AGDaOJAYHfo[/YOUTUBE]


Thoughts?

that got used against him last year against Batesville,not many teams do it,but when it was used against them it cost them last yr in the semi finals.

[64Jumper ('81-'84)]

I believe in the "never punt" philosophy as I have seen the stats. It would take some convincin' on adding onside kicks and never fielding punts to the mix.

At that point, you can not just evaluate them separately, but must view the effects as a whole as well, since you are now sacrificing all elements crucial to winning field position.

[sstack]

I believe in the "never punt" philosophy as I have seen the stats. It would take some convincin' on adding onside kicks and never fielding punts to the mix.

At that point, you can not just evaluate them separately, but must view the effects as a whole as well, since you are now sacrificing all elements crucial to winning field position.

Highlands has been a team that is lucky if they punt the ball 10 times a season and until this year rarely fielded punts. This year they are fielding punts and I believe it is because he has two very fast returners with very good hands and sees it worth the risk of dropped punts. but once again they have been heavy favorites in most games. In games against equal quality they will punt more. they also have a kicker who puts it in the endzone 85-90% of the time so I see that as an advantage over onside kicking every time, although they did open Fridays game with onside kick. It is easier to do this if you are confident your team can overcome the short field you give up if you do not recover the onsides kick.

[EKUAlum05]

His philosophy on the onside kicks is something I agree with at the level of HS he coaches. It would not work at a high level of High School (think 6A with Trinity, GCL, Florida) but at your standard issue level of High School Football I think it is genius. You look at smaller school football in KY and typically Special Teams are severely deficient.

Most teams start around the 30-35 yard line... most teams struggle to punt the ball 35 yards... most teams stick Freshman and Upper Classmen who are unable to see the field otherwise out there... most teams spend a minimal amount of practice time on their units.

If you are going to allow them to start at the 35 yard line why not master an onside kick that they recover at the 40? Why not try a perfectly placed pooch kick that one of those Freshman or space filler upperclassmen have to make a play on at the 35? Typically up-men will not be returning the ball for a TD so you take that out of the equation.

I think about the Pikeville vs. Middlesboro game where Pikeville recovered something like 3 or 4 kickoffs. Not onside kicks...KICKOFFS.. simply because Middlesboro was not well coached on Special Teams and did not know how to react to a ball hitting the turf. Same thing for the Pikeville vs. Raceland playoff game where Pikeville had a couple of key kick recoveries that led to their comeback last year.

I can't get behind always going for it on 4th Down... I could buy always going for it once you are across your own 40... but to forego a punt facing 4th and 15 at your own 11 seems foolish.

I have often wondered as a Belfry fan if philosophically it would make sense to be more aggressive on 4th Down. Belfry's offense has been predicated on getting 3.5 yards per carry and keeping the sticks moving and Belfry has a ridiculously high conversion percentage on 3rd Down. If you adopt always going for it on 4th Down then you only need to average 2.5 yards per carry. One of Belfry's biggest obstacles hasn't necessarily been that they can't throw the ball...but that the risk of throwing the ball is too high if it results in an incomplete pass and a 0 yard gain.

When you are relying on 3 downs and you pass on 2nd and 7 and it is incomplete you have a 3rd and 7 where you need to gain 7 yards. To pickup 7 you are asking your offense to either use another pass or a play outside of your base offense.

I think it would be staggering to see the difference between Belfry's conversion percentage on 3rd and Less Than 4 vs. 3rd and 5 or greater.

When you are relying on 4 downs and you pass on 2nd and 7 and it is incomplete you have a 3rd and 7 where now you only need a gain of 4 and a gain of 3. Now you can run your base offense on 3rd Down and potentially again on 4th Down. That pass goes from a liability to a luxury.

[ataclance]

Interesting strategy.

[64SUR]

example first game wayne co play corbin,wayne county pooch kick and on-side kick final score Wayne co 35 Corbin 28 Second game wayne kick the ball down field final score Wayne county 36 Corbin 00 :Sad04:

[cajinyank]

remember your whole offensive philosophy changes when you know you have 4 downs to make 10 yards instead of 3. that will change your play calling.