[LWC]

From 1961-2011, has their been a better overall player than Albert Pujols? Thoughts?

10 Seasons Played. Averages- .330 38 HR 113 RBI .424 OBP

2 Gold Gloves, 3 MVP's, 9-Time All Star, and World Series Champion.

If he played JUST 5 more years at this pace (currently 31, would be 36), he would have a career total of 621 HR's and 1866 RBI's.

[Jarons]

If he is not the greatest, he is in the top two or three. He is my favorite player to watch.

[Spud6]

To me, best overall player? Yes!!!

[Stardust]

If he stays healthy, but realistically, Griffey had everything but the average. He did not succumb to cheating, and his body broke down fast. Pujols has already shown signs of injury over the past could of seasons. He will be much better off because of being a First-Baseman, but I for one am hopeful he stays healthy and destroys all of the offensive records that the steroid freaks have. They made a mockery of the game, and hopefully Albert atones for it.

[LWC]

Stardust, the average is important. Pujols is at .330 and Griffey is a little above .300, if he isn't below it.

Griffey was the man though and I believe a better fielder. Neither have been proven of steroids.

[Stardust]

Stardust, the average is important. Pujols is at .330 and Griffey is a little above .300, if he isn't below it.

Griffey was the man though and I believe a better fielder. Neither have been proven of steroids.

LWC, we are talking about the first 10 years. Griffey had arguably the greatest first 10 years of anyone in history, with only Albert and Bonds in that category.

[ComfortEagle]

If my calculations are correct:

Ken Griffey Jr. (first 10 years):

BA - .327
HR - 398 (39.8 average)
RBI - 1152 (115.2 average)
OBP - .417

10 time All-Star (13 overall)
1 MVP
10 Gold Gloves

[ComfortEagle]

Also, what about Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle, Johnny Bench, Pete Rose, and Hank Aaron?

[Stardust]

If my calculations are correct:

Ken Griffey Jr. (first 10 years):

BA - .327
HR - 398 (39.8 average)
RBI - 1152 (115.2 average)
OBP - .417

10 time All-Star (13 overall)
1 MVP
10 Gold Gloves

Great research CE. Junior ha it all, was on his way to to becoming immortal in the annals of this game

[Amun-Ra]

SD I think Griffey is still an immortal in the annals of the game because he did not cheat and was THE face of the game for a solid 10 years. He was the Jordan/Kobe of baseball.

[Stardust]

SD I think Griffey is still an immortal in the annals of the game because he did not cheat and was THE face of the game for a solid 10 years. He was the Jordan/Kobe of baseball.

Great analogy and dead-on. He played the game right and he also made fans proud of a professional athlete. This guys gave everything that he he had and never cut corners doing it.

[ComfortEagle]

Maybe I'd like Pujols more if he wasn't a Cardinal.

[itzAmazing]

I am very young and didn't get to watch many of the other greats play so I can't say for the past 50 years. But, for the past 10 years it isn't even close. Overall baseball player, character, Pujols is the best.

[LWC]

If my calculations are correct:

Ken Griffey Jr. (first 10 years):

BA - .327
HR - 398 (39.8 average)
RBI - 1152 (115.2 average)
OBP - .417

10 time All-Star (13 overall)
1 MVP
10 Gold Gloves

Pujols
10 Seasons Played.
Averages-
.330
38 HR
113 RBI
.424 OBP

2 Gold Gloves,
3 MVP's,
9-Time All Star,
World Series Champion.

So Pujols leads in 4 categories and Griffey leads in 4.

Pujols leads in BA, OBP, MVP's and a World Series Ring for his team.
Griffey leads in HR, RBI, All-Star and Gold Gloves.

To be so close to Griffey's numbers just shows how great Pujols has been, because people said that Griffey was gonna save baseball, and he made it cool to watch baseball.

[LWC]

Also, what about Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle, Johnny Bench, Pete Rose, and Hank Aaron?

I have always been a Pete Rose and the BRM fan but weren't most of Pete Rose's great numbers because he played for 24 years? I mean did he have 10 seasons that just made you look back at the stat sheet and say WOW!

Willie Mays:
319 HR's (31.9-AVG)
935 RBI (93.5-AVG)
.309 BA

2 MVP
8 All-Star (must have had two all star games because there were some years listed twice)
5 Gold Gloves
World Series?

Mickey Mantle's first 10 years are outside of the 50-year frame. (1951-1968).

Johnny Bench: (Ghastly numbers, how did he get so many All-Star's and MVP's? I guess it was because he played catcher and 25 HR and 93 RBI is a beautiful stat for a Pro catcher)

256 HR's (25.6 AVG)
929 HR's (92.9 AVG)
.258 BA

9 All-Star
2 MVP's
9 Gold Gloves
World Series?

Hank Aaron (Also, outside the 50 year frame BUT included to use as a bench-mark *All-time HR leader for years and still all time RBI, very high on all-time BA chart as well*)

342 HR's (34.2 AVG)
1121 RBI (112.1 AVG)
.318 BA

9 All-Star
1 MVP
3 Gold Glove
World Series?

Pete Rose:
109 HR (10.9 AVG)
586 RBI (58.6 AVG)
.307 BA

6 All-Star
2 Gold Glove
ZERO MVP
World Series?

[LWC]

Just to compare Pujols to some All-Time Greats

Willie Mays:
319 HR's (31.9-AVG)
935 RBI (93.5-AVG)
.309 BA

2 MVP
8 All-Star
5 Gold Gloves
World Series?

Hank Aaron
342 HR's (34.2 AVG)
1121 RBI (112.1 AVG)
.318 BA

9 All-Star
1 MVP
3 Gold Glove
World Series?

Ken Griffey Jr.

BA - .327
HR - 398 (39.8 average)
RBI - 1152 (115.2 average)
OBP - .417

10 time All-Star (13 overall)
1 MVP
10 Gold Gloves

Pujols:

.330
380 HR (38 AVG)
1130 RBI (113 AVG)
.424 OBP

2 Gold Gloves,
3 MVP's,
9-Time All Star,
World Series Champion

HR- Behind Griffey by 18 HR, ahead of Willie Mays and Hank Aaron.
RBI- Behind Griffey by 52 RBI, ahead of Hank Aaron and considerably ahead of Willie Mays.
BA- Ahead of Griffey, Mays AND Hank Aaron.
Gold Gloves- Behind Griffey, Mays and Aaron.
All-Star- Behind Griffey, tied with Aaron, ahead of Mays.
World Series- Ahead of Griffey, do not know about the others.

Great company to be in.

[Stardust]

I'm going to throw this out there. With the total number of teams being so much greater today, Pujols has also see some pitching that others over the year did not see when the best players played. It's like my point in the Kings thread, we have too much mediocrity with so many teams in the leagues.

[LWC]

I'm going to throw this out there. With the total number of teams being so much greater today, Pujols has also see some pitching that others over the year did not see when the best players played. It's like my point in the Kings thread, we have too much mediocrity with so many teams in the leagues.

Willie Mays did have some nice protection in that line-up though. Mays was the best but you had Willie McCovey and others there as well. Don't forget about Dusty Rhodes, Seriously!

Griffey Jr was the man, and had one of, if not the, best 10-year runs in baseball. He did have Edgar Martinez, Tino Martinez, and Jay Buhner. Before you laugh, look at their numbers: (Averaged between the 3, so 3 players hitting this way, besides Griffey in 1995) 33 HR's and 115 RBI!

I do agree that the pitching was better back in Mays and Aaron's time but not much, if any, better in Griffey Jr.'s time.

[Stardust]

Willie Mays did have some nice protection in that line-up though. Mays was the best but you had Willie McCovey and others there as well. Don't forget about Dusty Rhodes, Seriously!

Griffey Jr was the man, and had one of, if not the, best 10-year runs in baseball. He did have Edgar Martinez, Tino Martinez, and Jay Buhner. Before you laugh, look at their numbers: (Averaged between the 3, so 3 players hitting this way, besides Griffey in 1995) 33 HR's and 115 RBI!

I do agree that the pitching was better back in Mays and Aaron's time but not much, if any, better in Griffey Jr.'s time.

It was defintely better in Griffey's era. This is the era that both hitters and PITCHERS lived on Juice, yet Junior prevailed over all those who were cheating!

[LWC]

It was defintely better in Griffey's era. This is the era that both hitters and PITCHERS lived on Juice, yet Junior prevailed over all those who were cheating!

Are you man-crushing on Griffey Jr.? He and Albert have almost identical hitting numbers, and now we are comparing the pitching eras. Remember the help that Griffey had in Seattle with hitting, now name 3 hitters that helped Albert? I'll give you Scott Rolen. Albert had no protection and hardly ever sees a good pitch.

[PaintsvilleTigerfan]

At least they don't juice.

[Stardust]

Are you man-crushing on Griffey Jr.? He and Albert have almost identical hitting numbers, and now we are comparing the pitching eras. Remember the help that Griffey had in Seattle with hitting, now name 3 hitters that helped Albert? I'll give you Scott Rolen. Albert had no protection and hardly ever sees a good pitch.

I'm not a big believer in the help thing. Their Walk numbers are not that different and that's the only stat you can look at when using the
"help" factor. Also, Albert played a lot more games in his 10 years than Griffey (my Boy ) did, so if yo want to say anything, because of Griffey's position and him being a runner - You have yet to acknowledge that Jr. had double digit steals each year in comparison to the non-running that Albert is capable of - that running hurt Junior and took his numbers down.

Bottom-line, two of the greatest to ever play this game, you wanted an argument for a player who did better, I say it was Griffey who had the best first 10 years.

[Hoot Gibson]

Some of the greatest pitchers in history have played in the past 50 years. Nolan Ryan and Bob Gibson were two of the most dominant players in the history of the game. After the 1968 season, MLB lowered the height of pitcher mounds by 6 inches in response to the dominance of pitchers like Gibson, who posted a 1.12 ERA, tossed 28 complete games, and struck out 268 in 304 innings. Few players in any sport have ever been so dominant as to force changes to the rules to level the playing field like Gibson did.

Another thing to remember is that besides the development of steroids, players in recent years have benefited greatly from advances in medicine - especially surgery. Dominant players like Willie McCovey and Sandy Koufax whose careers were shortened by injuries would have posted much better career numbers had they played a few decades later. Knee and shoulder injuries have ended many great baseball players' careers, while many similar injuries to today's players have a minor impact on the lengths of their careers.

[Stardust]

Some of the greatest pitchers in history have played in the past 50 years. Nolan Ryan and Bob Gibson were two of the most dominant players in the history of the game. After the 1968 season, MLB lowered the height of pitcher mounds by 6 inches in response to the dominance of pitchers like Gibson, who posted a 1.12 ERA, tossed 28 complete games, and struck out 268 in 304 innings. Few players in any sport have ever been so dominant as to force changes to the rules to level the playing field like Gibson did.

Another thing to remember is that besides the development of steroids, players in recent years have benefited greatly from advances in medicine - especially surgery. Dominant players like Willie McCovey and Sandy Koufax whose careers were shortened by injuries would have posted much better career numbers had they played a few decades later. Knee and shoulder injuries have ended many great baseball players' careers, while many similar injuries to today's players have a minor impact on the lengths of their careers.

Good post. I think in the light that LWC was referring, this was about who had the greatest 10 year run offensively. From a pitching standpoint, I would guess that Gibson would be at the top. Ryan was my favorite, but his run with the lowly Angels hurt his early numbers.

[Hoot Gibson]

Good post. I think in the light that LWC was referring, this was about who had the greatest 10 year run offensively. From a pitching standpoint, I would guess that Gibson would be at the top. Ryan was my favorite, but his run with the lowly Angels hurt his early numbers.

But the OP does not specify and it does mention Gold Glove awards. There is no better defensive play than a three-pitch strikeout. :biggrin:

Gibson was my all-time favorite MLB player but Ryan's numbers were hampered by the fact that he played on some horrible teams during his career. In 1987, Ryan led the league in strikeouts and ERA and finished with an 8-16 record. He threw his record 7th no-hitter at age 40, almost 18 years after he threw his first one. He lost another 5 no-hitters with one out in the 9th inning.

The fact that he was so wild early in his career did not help his numbers either.

Randy Johnson is another pitcher who played in the past 50 years who should be considered for the era's greatest player.

I like Pujols and he may be the greatest player of the past 50 years but younger fans tend to forget some truly great players of the past who played before baseball talented was diluted through expansion and performance was boosted with chemicals.

Roberto Clemente also deserves some strong consideration for the best player of the past 50 years for his combination of speed, average, power, and defense (maybe the greatest arm on an outfielder of all-time) - but he died in a plane crash with some potentially great seasons still ahead of him. Clemente was a 15-time All Star and 12-time Gold Glove winner and hit .317 during an era when pitchers were more dominant than today.

[LWC]

Hoot, I never thought about pitchers but you are right, Gibson, Koufax, Johnson, Maddox, (Famous Mets pitcher that I can't remember the name of) were very dominant.

[Hoot Gibson]

Hoot, I never thought about pitchers but you are right, Gibson, Koufax, Johnson, Maddox, (Famous Mets pitcher that I can't remember the name of) were very dominant.

You are probably thinking of Tom Seaver of the Mets. Louis Tiant and Juan Marichal were a couple more of my favorites from the "old days." Back in those days, either a good pitcher owned part of the plate or your head became a target. That was before the league decided to juice the game by lowering the mound and ruining the game with the designated hitter - back when baseball was still unquestionably America's favorite pastime and back when baseball had a real commissioner.

[Stardust]

You are probably thinking of Tom Seaver of the Mets. Louis Tiant and Juan Marichal were a couple more of my favorites from the "old days." Back in those days, either a good pitcher owned part of the plate or your head became a target. That was before the league decided to juice the game by lowering the mound and ruining the game with the designated hitter - back when baseball was still unquestionably America's favorite pastime and back when baseball had a real commissioner.

Baseball has become a "nice guy" sport