[Old School]

I wonder if this reduction in health care premiums covers everyone in all 57 states? :biggrin: I wonder where this money will come from?


When House Speaker Pelosi said that Obama Care will allow Americans to realize their dream of being an artist, photographer, or writer without having to work a day job to have health insurance, some of us wondered whether ObamaCare also will cover other expenses, such as for housing and food, that force people to work a job they may not like while they pursue their dreams. Now we know the answer: yes it will.

Monday in Strongsville, Ohio, President Obama said that ObamaCare will reduce health insurance premiums by "3,000 percent." Considering that a 50 percent decrease in premiums would mean that we'd be paying half as much as we now pay for health insurance and that a 100 percent decrease in premiums would mean that we'd be paying nothing for health insurance, President Obama is telling us that insurance companies will actually start paying us money to keep our health insurance.

If your current health insurance policy costs $5,000 a year, insurance companies will pay you $145,000 a year (2,900 percent multiplied by $5,000). If you're fortunate enough to be paying $25,000 a year for health insurance, insurance companies will pay you $725,000 a year. There's no word whether you can purchase a more expensive health insurance policy to increase the amount of money that insurers pay you each year.

Just think, America: These are the people telling us that they know best how to run 1/6 of our economy.

[url=http://w][/url]

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2010...ms_fa.html

[Mr.Kimball]

I wonder if this reduction in health care premiums covers everyone in all 57 states? :biggrin: I wonder where this money will come from?


When House Speaker Pelosi said that Obama Care will allow Americans to realize their dream of being an artist, photographer, or writer without having to work a day job to have health insurance, some of us wondered whether ObamaCare also will cover other expenses, such as for housing and food, that force people to work a job they may not like while they pursue their dreams. Now we know the answer: yes it will.

Monday in Strongsville, Ohio, President Obama said that ObamaCare will reduce health insurance premiums by "3,000 percent." Considering that a 50 percent decrease in premiums would mean that we'd be paying half as much as we now pay for health insurance and that a 100 percent decrease in premiums would mean that we'd be paying nothing for health insurance, President Obama is telling us that insurance companies will actually start paying us money to keep our health insurance.

If your current health insurance policy costs $5,000 a year, insurance companies will pay you $145,000 a year (2,900 percent multiplied by $5,000). If you're fortunate enough to be paying $25,000 a year for health insurance, insurance companies will pay you $725,000 a year. There's no word whether you can purchase a more expensive health insurance policy to increase the amount of money that insurers pay you each year.

[B]Just think, America: These are the people telling us that they know best how to run 1/6 of our economy. [/B]

[url=http://w][/url]

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2010...ms_fa.html

Hey, let's not forget to give Cavemaster part of the credit for this outstanding revelation that he so rightly deserves as well, as he and ol' B. Hussein graduated as valedictorian and salutatorian respectively in the economics program they took in summer school at the local community college together. They studied together and were lab partners after all, ya know? :biggrin:

[Hoot Gibson]

Math does not seem to be Obama's strong suit. 57 states, 10,000 people killed by a Kansas tornado, and now a 3,000% reduction in insurance premiums.

Does anybody else suspect that Obama may have "trillions" confused with "billions?" That would make his borrowing and spending spree a little easier to understand.

[Mr.Kimball]

[quote=Hoot Gibson]Math does not seem to be Obama's strong suit. 57 states, 10,000 people killed by a Kansas tornado, and now a 3,000% reduction in insurance premiums.

Does anybody else suspect that Obama may have "trillions" confused with "billions?"[/quote] That would make his borrowing and spending spree a little easier to understand.

I think he's got it confused with quarters for the local car wash.

[TidesHoss32]

So if this is the case, who and where do I get health insurance from? I dont care to pay 2 grand a month, if Im going to get 725K back

[bulldog149]

I'll tell you this. Without health reform you'll continue to see premiums,co-pays and deductibles skyrocket along with other medical costs while more and more individuals and companies have to drop coverage and it strains budgets of states and US Treasury whereas non partisan Congressional Budget Office says this Reduces federal deficit by quite a lot in first decade and lot more after that. The current system is broken and unsustainable.

[Mr.Kimball]

I'll tell you this. Without health reform you'll continue to see premiums,co-pays and deductibles skyrocket along with other medical costs while more and more individuals and companies have to drop coverage and it strains budgets of states and US Treasury whereas non partisan Congressional Budget Office says this Reduces federal deficit by quite a lot in first decade and lot more after that. The current system is broken and unsustainable.

Well, I'll just tell you this too my friend. If you think it's broken now,you just wait till the only thing left driving this nation's economy is finally put into extinction. That is small business. This will be the final nail in the coffin.

[Hoot Gibson]

I'll tell you this. Without health reform you'll continue to see premiums,co-pays and deductibles skyrocket along with other medical costs while more and more individuals and companies have to drop coverage and it strains budgets of states and US Treasury whereas non partisan Congressional Budget Office says this Reduces federal deficit by quite a lot in first decade and lot more after that. The current system is broken and unsustainable.

If you or your employer pay a premium for health you will pay more almost immediately after Obamacare passes. Even Democrat Senator **** "Turban" Durbin has acknowledged this fact.

Caterpillar announced today that its costs are estimate to increase by $100 million in the first year if Obamacare passes. The company also notified 121 employees that their jobs are being moved to the UK in 60 days.

The non-partisan CBO, using the bogus details provided to them by Obama, did say that Obamacare will reduce the deficit but they have not claimed that it will reduce consumer costs. The deficit cut, if it really materializes, will come through higher taxes on those of us who still pay taxes and sharp cuts in payments to doctors, which will inevitably result in doctor shortages. Doctors and pharmacies have already begun withdrawing from the Medicare program.

Government attempts to control prices never works. Prices rise, even if a black market is required to exploit them, and/or the quality of service declines. Always.

[Old School]

Well, I'll just tell you this too my friend. If you think it's broken now,you just wait till the only thing left driving this nation's economy is finally put into extinction. That is small business. This will be the final nail in the coffin.

It will not help the large companies either, CAT said today that this healthcare reform would drive up their cost by 20% or 100mil in the first year alone.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/...lion-year/

[bulldog149]

Actaully there are lots of tax credits for small businesses.
And bill REDUCES federal deficit $138 billion in first ten years alone and much more in decade after that according to non partisan Congressional Budget Office
The bill will be the biggest deficit reduction bill since 1990s and will improve the economy.
What you would have is 32 million more people with insurance so insurers will have a lot more clients and of course more drugs and medical services will be sold.

[Stardust]

Democrat Steve Driehaus is standing firm and is set to vote no on Sunday - along with the rest of the Greater Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky House delegation - on President Barack Obama's health care plan.

http://news.cincinnati.com/

[Old School]

Actaully there are lots of tax credits for small businesses.
And bill REDUCES federal deficit $138 billion in first ten years alone and much more in decade after that according to non partisan Congressional Budget Office
The bill will be the biggest deficit reduction bill since 1990s and will improve the economy.
What you would have is 32 million more people with insurance so insurers will have a lot more clients and of course more drugs and medical services will be sold.

What are these tax credits?

Obama doesn't know what's in the bill, even Pelosi said the bill needs to be passed so everyone can find out what's in it. If this bill passes we (the citizens) will start paying (funding) this program now while no one will receive any benifits for four years. The deficit that they claim will happen comes from paying for 10 years into this program while only receiving 6 years of benifits. Those 32 million uninsured will remain uninsured until 2014.

Don't you mean the Government will have an additional people to insure, because Biden said recently that they will control the insurance companies.

[Hoot Gibson]

Actaully there are lots of tax credits for small businesses.
And bill REDUCES federal deficit $138 billion in first ten years alone and much more in decade after that according to non partisan Congressional Budget Office
The bill will be the biggest deficit reduction bill since 1990s and will improve the economy.
What you would have is 32 million more people with insurance so insurers will have a lot more clients and of course more drugs and medical services will be sold.

Can you name one large government program where costs did not far exceed projected costs and projected savings ever materialized?

Among other budgetary gimmicks, Democrats separated the "Doc fix" that will be necessary to keep doctors seeing Medicare patients from the HCR bill to show some imaginary savings. Many doctors already refuse to participate in the Medicare and Medicaid programs because of low reimbursement rates. Either there will be a shortage of services, or the Medicare savings that are included in the HCR bill will never see the light of day.

The idea that 32 million additional people, most of whom will receive government subsidies, can be covered by medical insurance for less money than the government spends today on medical care is laughable.

Oh, one final point - most benefits of the HCR bill will not begin for four years. That's right, ten years of taxes for 6 years of benefits. Do you think most Americans understand that or that citizens and illegal aliens who expect free health care immediately are going to be happy when they learn that fact? What do you think will happen in years 11 through 20 of the plan, when taxes will be collected at a one-for-one rate with the benefits doled out by the government? No clue? Well, then let me tell you what will happen. Benefits will either be cut or taxes will be increases - or more likely, both will occur.

Eventually, the American people will curse Obama and the Democrats who destroyed the best health care system in the world. The sooner, the better.

[Mr.Kimball]

Actaully there are lots of tax credits for small businesses.And bill REDUCES federal deficit $138 billion in first ten years alone and much more in decade after that according to non partisan Congressional Budget Office
The bill will be the biggest deficit reduction bill since 1990s and will improve the economy.
What you would have is 32 million more people with insurance so insurers will have a lot more clients and of course more drugs and medical services will be sold.

Hey Bud, I asked you once of you would kindly go into detail on how this works but you seemed to ignore my previous request. What are these tax credits that you so gloatingly refer too? Do you have any idea what they may be? Interesting that you know, when the ones voting on the bill dont even know what they are.

Are you getting your information from something such as the Huffington Post? Perhaps from Lynn Samuels? Heck perhaps you are listening to a moron president whose entire cabinet's combined experience in the private sector involving business or any other financial background totals up to a grand total figure of 8%. Yeah, that's really who I want to make decisions on how to spend my money.

Lets just get down to the brass tacks here, you dont have the first clue as to what you are talking about. Have you ever been involved in a business venture for yourself? Do you happen to own a small business for yourself? I do, and I can tell you that the things that you are spouting off about, you are 100% dead wrong on. If you had any first hand experience at all you would be condeming this whole plan. Actually what you will find out happening, is that there will be millions and millions that are currently employed that will be without jobs if this bill passes.

Actually insurance companies that have more clients that that will lose money on, means only one thing..............It'll only help them go out of business at a faster pace. This business does not work on the premise that volume reduces costs. It only exploits the opposite. Think about the common sense aspects of this thing before you rattle on about it.

[Mr.Kimball]

Can you name one large government program where costs did not far exceed projected costs and projected savings ever materialized?

Among other budgetary gimmicks, Democrats separated the "Doc fix" that will be necessary to keep doctors seeing Medicare patients from the HCR bill to show some imaginary savings. Many doctors already refuse to participate in the Medicare and Medicaid programs because of low reimbursement rates. Either there will be a shortage of services, or the Medicare savings that are included in the HCR bill will never see the light of day.

The idea that 32 million additional people, most of whom will receive government subsidies, can be covered by medical insurance for less money than the government spends today on medical care is laughable.

Oh, one final point - most benefits of the HCR bill will not begin for four years. That's right, ten years of taxes for 6 years of benefits. Do you think most Americans understand that or that citizens and illegal aliens who expect free health care immediately are going to be happy when they learn that fact? What do you think will happen in years 11 through 20 of the plan, when taxes will be collected at a one-for-one rate with the benefits doled out by the government? No clue? Well, then let me tell you what will happen. Benefits will either be cut or taxes will be increases - or more likely, both will occur.

Eventually, the American people will curse Obama and the Democrats who destroyed the best health care system in the world. The sooner, the better.

The government, in all things, has no accountability of a bottom line. They are people running things that have absoluely no private sector experience in knowing how anything actually works. The simple solutions is the never ending impulse to refund it by just raising taxes when it fails. Then again, when it fails over and over and over.

[Hoot Gibson]

The government, in all things, has no accountability of a bottom line. They are people running things that have absoluely no private sector experience in knowing how anything actually works. The simple solutions is the never ending impulse to refund it by just raising taxes when it fails. Then again, when it fails again and again and again.

I agree. Only fools believe that the CBO can accurately calculate the cost of this bill - especially since nobody has actually had time to even read the bill. To make even a good faith effort to compute the cost of this bill would take months. The CBO is essentially calculating costs based on Obama's talking points.

I guess Americans are supposed to be relieved that Democrats did not avoid voting on the bill by deeming it passed. Instead, they have reverted to their previous practice of voting for bills that they have not read.

[TidesHoss32]

The people comparing this to LBJ's Medicare need to be taken out back and shot. I mean seriously, government funded abortion? Fix that and about a half dozen dems are all in. I never thought Id see the day when the words "government funded abortions" would be included in a health care plan. One that may go into effect. What a disaster. What a titanic disaster of a president these people across this country have voted in. I seriously hope theyre happy that they "got that oil man" out of the White House. As much as I loved Reagan, I dont think even he would be able to repair the damage left by this bunch. I dont mean to wish bad things on people but..........................

[Joe Friday]

The people comparing this to LBJ's Medicare need to be taken out back and shot. I mean seriously, government funded abortion? Fix that and about a half dozen dems are all in. I never thought Id see the day when the words "government funded abortions" would be included in a health care plan. One that may go into effect. What a disaster. What a titanic disaster of a president these people across this country have voted in. I seriously hope theyre happy that they "got that oil man" out of the White House. As much as I loved Reagan, I dont think even he would be able to repair the damage left by this bunch. I dont mean to wish bad things on people but..........................

Stupak caved!

From The Detroit News: http://www.detnews.com/article/20100321/...z0irkLG9go

[TidesHoss32]

Stupak caved!

From The Detroit News: http://www.detnews.com/article/20100321/...z0irkLG9go

I know...he hadnt yet when I posted this

[Hoot Gibson]

The bill passed and our dear President has finished reading the teleprompter. The notion that there are any pro-life Democrats in Congress has been disproven yet again. An executive order always takes back seat when it conflicts with the law of the land.

Stupack will face a very well financed opponent in November. Assuming that I find new employment in May, I may send his opponent a check myself. I tried to give him that message before the vote but his voicemail box was full. :biggrin:

[bulldog149]

I didn't ignore Mr. Kimball. I haven't been on site today. I usually just look at sports sections of site.
..Many parts of bill take effect now including large pool purchasing power for people without insurance with pre-existing conditons.
.There are tax credits for small businesses that buy insurance coverage for employees. All businesses under 50 employees are exempt from any requirements on employers. None have to buy coverage for employees but have to pay fine for employees that will require government subsidies to buy it on their own.
.So yes small businesses get tax credits and as I said employers with less than 50 employees are exempt from all requirements of responsibility for employees.
.I get news from many sources. Like Associated Press,CNN,wire services like Reuters and non partisan networks(Unlike FOX).
.The taxes are a Meciare payroll tax on incomes of individuals making over $200,000 a year or couple making $250,000. And high end insurance policies beginning in 2018(as you recall John McCain proposed taxing those policies and it wasn't Obama's first choice).And House dramatically raised the thresholds at which it would be imposed.
.As for government control there is in the sense that some abusive practices will end including denying coverage for people with pre existing conditions,lifetime caps,arbitrary rate hikes and dropping coverage when you get sick. But insurance will still be purchased by individuals or employers with government having subsidies mentioned before.
.No illegal immigrant is covered in the bill. In fact they are specifically excluded.
.There is no government funding for abortion either. In fact there was an executive order today stating what was already in bill NO Federal fudning of abortion. If people want those services or insurance that covers it they have to pay for it. The government does not. As with existing law it only excludes rape,incest and life of mother.
.Pelosi wasn't saying Democrats or president don't what it is in the bill. They do. She is saying with all misinformation and scare tactics by opponents with myths like death panels now people will see that was all false.
.And we heard the same charges of socialism etc. against Medicare and Social Security.
..Don't forget the bill closes the doughnut hole for senior citizens. They will have reduced prices on drugs beginning next year.
..Don't forget government subsidizes premiums for families of four up to $88,000 a year income. Nor that Medicaid is expanded to 133% of federal poverty level and it goes into effect that young adults can stay on parents policy until age 26.
..The deficit is reduced according to nonparisan Congressional Budget Office by $138 billion over the next ten years and $1.2 trillion in following decade.
..The fact is the bill will create millions of jobs. As well as cover 32 million more Americans and end abusive practices like denying coverage based on pre existing conditions, lifetime limits and dropping people from insurance when they get sick.
..Don't forget who supports bill including American Association of Retired People and American Medical Association among many other groups. Without the bill in the next decade there would be 17 million more uninsured than there are now.

[Joe Friday]

[attachment=o1996]

Three airports in the district of democrat Bart Stupak were awarded $726,409 in grants by the B. Hussein administration two days before the vote on obamacare.

[Mr.Kimball]

[attachment=o1996]

Three airports in the district of democrat Bart Stupak were awarded $726,409 in grants by the B. Hussein administration two days before the vote on obamacare.

Just a coincidence, I'm sure.

[Matman]

Hey Bud, I asked you once of you would kindly go into detail on how this works but you seemed to ignore my previous request. What are these tax credits that you so gloatingly refer too? Do you have any idea what they may be? Interesting that you know, when the ones voting on the bill dont even know what they are.

Are you getting your information from something such as the Huffington Post? Perhaps from Lynn Samuels? Heck perhaps you are listening to a moron president whose entire cabinet's combined experience in the private sector involving business or any other financial background totals up to a grand total figure of 8%. Yeah, that's really who I want to make decisions on how to spend my money.

Lets just get down to the brass tacks here, you dont have the first clue as to what you are talking about. Have you ever been involved in a business venture for yourself? Do you happen to own a small business for yourself? I do, and I can tell you that the things that you are spouting off about, you are 100% dead wrong on. If you had any first hand experience at all you would be condeming this whole plan. Actually what you will find out happening, is that there will be millions and millions that are currently employed that will be without jobs if this bill passes.

Actually insurance companies that have more clients that that will lose money on, means only one thing..............It'll only help them go out of business at a faster pace. This business does not work on the premise that volume reduces costs. It only exploits the opposite. Think about the common sense aspects of this thing before you rattle on about it.

I don't see insurance companies making a alot from this. Volume does not equal profit. You will have to take in account the total cost and the marginal cost per unit sold. Then you will have to determine the marginal benifit. However there will be an increase in marginal social benifit due to the outside influence of total well being. In the end it will not mean a whole lot in dollar amounts though. However the lack of accountability for ones health is a negative factor with our nations health. Our obesity rate will drive cost up year after year as it increases. I wonder once our health becomes property of the US government if they can issue an obesity tax to help cover the excess cost.