[thecavemaster]

What exactly is your profession and what do you contribute to our society, CM? Perhaps we could all understand and appreciate where you are coming from a little better, when you give your opinions.

I have, on occasion, PM'd that information to a few BGR members. However, Kemba, in that I don't trust you in the PM department, I decline. I do disagree with your seeming assertion that the only way a person's opinion matters on an issue is if they somehow meet some test you have of mattering. For instance, let us say you do offer healthcare coverage to employees as an employer. Does that, ipso facto, mean your opposition to healthcare reform matters more than a person who is a teacher or something? I don't get that.

[Mr.Kimball]

I have, on occasion, PM'd that information to a few BGR members. However, Kemba, in that I don't trust you in the PM department, I decline. I do disagree with your seeming assertion that the only way a person's opinion matters on an issue is if they somehow meet some test you have of mattering. For instance, let us say you do offer healthcare coverage to employees as an employer. Does that, ipso facto, mean your opposition to healthcare reform matters more than a person who is a teacher or something? I don't get that.

You dont have to be offended by my inquiry CM. Sheesh, I didn't realize it was that personal of a deal to you.

No, I just thought it might be helpful in leading one to understand why someone else may have their particular views on various subjects. Nothing more, nothing less.

[thecavemaster]

You dont have to be offended by my inquiry CM. Sheesh, I didn't realize it was that huge of a deal.

No, I just thought it might lead one to understand why someone may have their particular views on various subjects. Nothing more, nothing less.

Not offended, Kimball... at all. I don't think it is socialistic to favor policies that balance the scales between the uber rich and the working class, which, basically, means I favor progressive taxation and a government strong enough to regulate corporate excesses and predatory business practices. I believe we need a thorough reworking of the current welfare system, as dignity comes through working. Everybody ought to contribute something to society and has something to contribute. That ought to be the expectation, backed up by policies and laws.

[Mr.Kimball]

Not offended, Kimball... at all. I don't think it is socialistic to favor policies that balance the scales between the uber rich and the working class, which, basically, means I favor progressive taxation and a government strong enough to regulate corporate excesses and predatory business practices. I believe we need a thorough reworking of the current welfare system, as dignity comes through working. Everybody ought to contribute something to society and has something to contribute. That ought to be the expectation, backed up by policies and laws.

OK, here is what we have CM.

What we have is a plane flying over the Atlantic Ocean. The payload is too heavy for the plane to continue to stay aloft . Something has to be thrown off the plane. It would be nice to continue on with a full payload, but that's not possible, something has to go. Equate that to the federal budget and our current financial mess. To reach our detination, what in your opinion has to go.

[thecavemaster]

OK, here is what we have CM.

What we have is a plane flying over the Atlantic Ocean. The payload is too heavy for the plane to continue to stay aloft . Something has to be thrown off the plane. It would be nice to continue on with a full payload, but that's not possible, something has to go. Equate that to the federal budget and our current financial mess. To reach our detination, what in your opinion has to go.

Total outlays, federal funds:

36% current military
18% past military
30% human resources
11% general government
5% physical resources

Kimball: as a businessman, where do you cut? Seriously, are we now in much more debt because of people who won't work? OR, because we are and have been involved in two wars? which have killed thousands, and maimed a hundred thousand? School systems, for instance, don't balance budgets on cutting copying costs. The "big ticket" item is staff, was staff, and always will be staff. And, of course, those are the hardest cuts to make. I'd say we might need to take a big, long look at being the policeman for the world... can we afford it?

[Matman]

Total outlays, federal funds:

36% current military
18% past military
30% human resources
11% general government
5% physical resources

Kimball: as a businessman, where do you cut? Seriously, are we now in much more debt because of people who won't work? OR, because we are and have been involved in two wars? which have killed thousands, and maimed a hundred thousand? School systems, for instance, don't balance budgets on cutting copying costs. The "big ticket" item is staff, was staff, and always will be staff. And, of course, those are the hardest cuts to make. I'd say we might need to take a big, long look at being the policeman for the world... can we afford it?

Its not that simple. I'm actually involved in three of those areas you mentioned. Where we can save money is not in the personal. Its in the pork. The money that just went to the military didn't help the military much at all. Alot of it was used for pet projects. The military has cut its budget temendously when it comes to training. Thats not a good place to begin when at war. But I do not believe we need to build new museums for certain governors at this time. There are many instances where government waste money. I witness it everyday.

[thecavemaster]

Its not that simple. I'm actually involved in three of those areas you mentioned. Where we can save money is not in the personal. Its in the pork. The money that just went to the military didn't help the military much at all. Alot of it was used for pet projects. The military has cut its budget temendously when it comes to training. Thats not a good place to begin when at war. But I do not believe we need to build new museums for certain governors at this time. There are many instances where government waste money. I witness it everyday.

Was the Hal Rogers Family Entertainment Center necessary in Williamsburg? Was it pork? Doesn't that depend on whether or not you and your family swim there? "Pork" is something some other Congressman gets to spend in his district, which then he or she can turnaround and use in a campaign to show "how much I care about and get done for my constituency." We're all self-centered and territorial.

[Matman]

Was the Hal Rogers Family Entertainment Center necessary in Williamsburg? Was it pork? Doesn't that depend on whether or not you and your family swim there? "Pork" is something some other Congressman gets to spend in his district, which then he or she can turnaround and use in a campaign to show "how much I care about and get done for my constituency." We're all self-centered and territorial.

I believe in increase spending for recreational and educational facilities. The arguement can be made that it helps to combat drugs in this area. It also increases the economy. However I do believe we need to streamline our projects during the current economy. Lets create economic opportunity not worry about campaigns. Hal's work with the Federal BOP is also pet projects. However he uses it to increase high paying jobs in our area. We are not all self-centered. Some of us believe in selfless service.

[thecavemaster]

I believe in increase spending for recreational and educational facilities. The arguement can be made that it helps to combat drugs in this area. It also increases the economy. However I do believe we need to streamline our projects during the current economy. Lets create economic opportunity not worry about campaigns. Hal's work with the Federal BOP is also pet projects. However he uses it to increase high paying jobs in our area. We are not all self-centered. Some of us believe in selfless service.

"I'm for cutting out unnecessary government spending." So is most everybody. However, NIMBY applies... "Hey, don't cut it out in my backyard." You believe in spending for recreational projects. Someone else believes in spending for museums (and has good reasons). It is easy to rail against "pork," as human beings seem to deeply need things to be deeply against. However, when it comes home to roost, hear the howling begin.

[Matman]

"I'm for cutting out unnecessary government spending." So is most everybody. However, NIMBY applies... "Hey, don't cut it out in my backyard." You believe in spending for recreational projects. Someone else believes in spending for museums (and has good reasons). It is easy to rail against "pork," as human beings seem to deeply need things to be deeply against. However, when it comes home to roost, hear the howling begin.

I think you misunderstood. I'm for museums too. They fall under education and recreation. However I do not believe in adding them onto a bill for national defense in order to obtain the leverage to pass it. You should not hide it in lengthy bills or use your vote for leverage. It doesn't have to be that way. I believe people deserve better. I'm sure you will come back with "but republicans did it" or "thats how it has always been done". I thought this President was for change. Thats what I want to see. Don't you?

[thecavemaster]

I think you misunderstood. I'm for museums too. They fall under education and recreation. However I do not believe in adding them onto a bill for national defense in order to obtain the leverage to pass it. You should not hide it in lengthy bills or use your vote for leverage. It doesn't have to be that way. I believe people deserve better. I'm sure you will come back with "but republicans did it" or "thats how it has always been done". I thought this President was for change. Thats what I want to see. Don't you?

I think a President can be for change all he or she wants. The culture in Congress can be fairly immune to the "latest Joe" that occupies the White House. Most of them figure they'll outlast the President.

[Matman]

I think a President can be for change all he or she wants. The culture in Congress can be fairly immune to the "latest Joe" that occupies the White House. Most of them figure they'll outlast the President.

Are you saying that change is impossible to accomplish from a President? Then would Obama's promise of change be honest? Do you believe the President is just a figure head and the real power lies with Congress?

[thecavemaster]

Are you saying that change is impossible to accomplish from a President? Then would Obama's promise of change be honest? Do you believe the President is just a figure head and the real power lies with Congress?

Any President will find it hard to change the culture in Washington. "Change" can occur in a lot of areas, not just the "climate" of Congress. What I tend to think is that, unless you've been there, in the halls, in the meeting rooms, you don't know how complex the culture is.

[Matman]

Any President will find it hard to change the culture in Washington. "Change" can occur in a lot of areas, not just the "climate" of Congress. What I tend to think is that, unless you've been there, in the halls, in the meeting rooms, you don't know how complex the culture is.

So did Obama promise somthing he can not deliver? Also who does that make responsible for this mess were in now? Bush? Congress? Both? Obama says Bush. Does that mean hes not being completely honest?

[thecavemaster]

So did Obama promise somthing he can not deliver? Also who does that make responsible for this mess were in now? Bush? Congress? Both? Obama says Bush. Does that mean hes not being completely honest?

Price of oil, 9/11, fear mongering, predatory lending, credit card living, ... complex country, complex mess. Obama has been in office a little over twelve months. I'm not ready to make broad, sweeping pronouncments. I also don't subscribe to the whole narrow, circumscribed blame game ritual.

[Matman]

Price of oil, 9/11, fear mongering, predatory lending, credit card living, ... complex country, complex mess. Obama has been in office a little over twelve months. I'm not ready to make broad, sweeping pronouncments. I also don't subscribe to the whole narrow, circumscribed blame game ritual.

It seems we are in agreement on something, Bush isn't to blame and Obama can be misleading. He doesn't truly believe this mess is the fault of the previous President. I believe he is taking advantage of the Bush bashing in order to increase his and the democrats approval.