[crawldad]

I Know this is a Subject which is usually taboo and spoken of in whispers only.
books could be wrote on the subject.We have all heard the terms 'Home Cooking" Which is defined as referees being swayed on CALLS or NONCALLS by Various factors. The 3 F's.. (fans-Friendship-FreePass) The first one is obvious They are all human and most defintley do not want to turn a Large faction against them Booing and heckling on thier every motion. the second They are from the area and The coach or players family are very good friends and you will likewise see them on every occasion.
The Last but most important is the FreePass as i call it. Whatever the does he ALMOST~ALWAYS recieves any consiquences. If So it takes a LONG PROCESS to take care of said official. Overall certified officials do a very good job. COACHES GETS FIRED. OFFICIALS DO NOT. So coaches most certainally do not want look like sore a sore loser. and let things go on they Dont want to. If you do not thiink officiating can decide the outcome of a game your simply out of touch. Ultimatley The reason for writing this I Saw
two things Happen in two different tournaments. One when a 13th region young ladies career was maybe ended recently because the referees decided on "Letting them Play" to quote one of them. THey were allowing a lot of things to go on other officials would have not. But they were consistent on calling both ways. But it should have not happened. another time at the Bowman tournament I seen Bell county shoot almost 50 free throws to the other teams hardly none. Sometimes in the first few minutes of the game you can tell which way the officiating is going to go and you more than likely as a coach will play your game towards what develops.
The same official above allowed a home based Lynn camp player to undercutt from behind another player and she landed with such force it seperated her shoulder and it went paralyzed for minutes. This Play in question was equivalant in football as a Shoestring tackle on the 1 yard line as the young lady was going in for am easy layup. This was actually called a Charge and was ridiculous. Im sure You as well as me can go on and on. But what I would like to make a Case is that for "Ultimatley the referees Job should Be to Protect your Kids" from Harm and allow them to play on an equal playing field. Consistancy is the key here. I Understand Parents..coaches and fans getting upset at officials.
But their are some really good ones in our area. And some may simply need more training and expeirence. I Understand they do not make much money. But we or our parents if were from this area have done much harder jobs for little more or less pay. So for a Great new years wish may we all wish for the remainder of the season that all our Mountain players Stay happy and healthy.

[OrangenowBlue]

My biggest problem with officiating is the difference that many of them make between boys and girls games. They will allow boys to do things they don't allow girls to do. If a boy makes a jump hop to the basket, nothing is said. If a girl does the same thing, most times, they will blow the whistle immediately and call walking. Many times they assume girls doesn't have the capabilities to make some of the moves that boys make, especially when a young lady has good footwork and is making post moves around the basket. Anytime a referee makes a call based on an assumption, it is usually a bad call. I know that girls cannot jump as high, run as fast, nor are they stronger then boys, but most good girls teams are more fundamentally sound then boys teams. Boys are just allowed more freedom.

[Basketball Wizzard]

I've been around basketball for over 40 years.....and I have to say that the officials of today are the worst I have ever seen. They used to care for the safety of the players first and their paycheck/future games second. I was recently at a tournament in Corbin and saw the worst case of official professionalism ever. It was clear which teams were selected to win and lose by just watching the officiating. What ever happened to a good clean sporting event where the better team wins? It's just a sign of our times.....corruption at every level of society. These young people work their butts off everyday of the week in practice to perfect their game...just to have it all go for "NOT" because of some crooked school official and biased referee. When will school officials and referees realize that fans are not "STUPID"..... we see what you are doing? I thought a school's purpose was to "teach" our kids how to be productive citizens.....not to "Cheat" when the going get's tough. Oh well enough of my soapbox.....I just wish the adults in charge had morals and loved the "SPORT" as much as the kids and the fans. :Cheerlead

[UKisN1]

Most only do it for the money. Get the game over and get out of there. Professionalism is a thing of the past. Most come dressed as a bum....talk to the coaches like buddies before the game...and never read the rule book.

The officials who do it right take the bum rap as well.

[wildcats fan]

My biggest problem with officiating is the difference that many of them make between boys and girls games. They will allow boys to do things they don't allow girls to do. If a boy makes a jump hop to the basket, nothing is said. If a girl does the same thing, most times, they will blow the whistle immediately and call walking. Many times they assume girls doesn't have the capabilities to make some of the moves that boys make, especially when a young lady has good footwork and is making post moves around the basket. Anytime a referee makes a call based on an assumption, it is usually a bad call. I know that girls cannot jump as high, run as fast, nor are they stronger then boys, but most good girls teams are more fundamentally sound then boys teams. Boys are just allowed more freedom.

That is exactly true about that. It happens all the time. They need to call the game fair. If you are going to call something against the girls then you need to call them against the boys teams to.

[ImagineThat!]

My biggest problem with officiating is the difference that many of them make between boys and girls games. They will allow boys to do things they don't allow girls to do. If a boy makes a jump hop to the basket, nothing is said. If a girl does the same thing, most times, they will blow the whistle immediately and call walking. Many times they assume girls doesn't have the capabilities to make some of the moves that boys make, especially when a young lady has good footwork and is making post moves around the basket. Anytime a referee makes a call based on an assumption, it is usually a bad call. I know that girls cannot jump as high, run as fast, nor are they stronger then boys, but most good girls teams are more fundamentally sound then boys teams. Boys are just allowed more freedom.

First of all, let me say that I'm not saying you're totally incorrect in you statements. But, maybe some of the calls that you are talking about are because they are slower when made by the girls. The slower move, even though it may be the exact same move made by a boy, allows the ref more time to see the move and make a call (even if it is an incorrect call).

I agree that the officiating is horrible for the most part (I hate to stereotype all officials) and it seems to be getting worse as some of the older officials are retiring and younger officials are coming in. It seems that most younger officials do not put the time into studying the rule and case books. They also seem to be more easily influenced by external sources.

The thing that irritates me the most is when an official feels that it is his/her job to even up the game. His/her job is to call whatever he/she sees (plain and simple). To me, as long as the game is called consistent at both ends, then it is the coaches' and players' jobs to adjust.

[Willie Turnover]

First off I am not a Basketball referee but I think it has to be one of the hardest sports to officiate. And I will not dog them because I do not think I could do better.

That said I got the opportunity to watch some games in a couple of Christmas tournaments and I think in region teams got some " home cooking".

And as long as coaches get to rate officials from their Region, and those ratings determine who works post season, then home cooking will always be a factor in inter- region games.

[Captain Backdoor]

Well I am from the 12th region and I am not saying this just because I'm from the 12th, but I honestly think that we have the best officials in the state. I was at the Wayne County Christmas tournament last week and we had out of state teams and out of region teams. Yes the majority of the teams were from the 12th but however the officials didnt call for the 12th region schools, they called a fair and even game both ways. I will take our top 10 officials against any other regions top 20 in the state. Ask Dave Fraley he'll tell you that we have some of the best officials around.

[mountain hoops guru]

Well I am from the 12th region and I am not saying this just because I'm from the 12th, but I honestly think that we have the best officials in the state. I will take our top 10 officials against any other regions top 20 in the state. Ask Dave Fraley he'll tell you that we have some of the best officials around.

You can tell you are definitely from the 12th. We have had the 12th region officials for our 14th regional tourney the last couple of years and they are not even close to what we sent you guys. They don't have a clue on what is going on and I wish they would let our officials stay and call our own region, why send the best officials in the state somewhere else to call, that has always been a gripe of mine. We have probably the top 5 or 6 guys around to call our games and we send them somewhere else to call, totally ridiculous. And when they go to the state tourney they are always on the finals, that is how good they are. So if they are so good, try and get them to stay at home this year and we will keep ours gladly. :Clap:

[eaglesrule]

Knowing the rules would help. At a game the other night, refs tried to give free throws on player control fouls - more than once. And let a girl with 5 fouls stay in the game for the first free throw.

[Captain Backdoor]

You can tell you are definitely from the 12th. We have had the 12th region officials for our 14th regional tourney the last couple of years and they are not even close to what we sent you guys. They don't have a clue on what is going on and I wish they would let our officials stay and call our own region, why send the best officials in the state somewhere else to call, that has always been a gripe of mine. We have probably the top 5 or 6 guys around to call our games and we send them somewhere else to call, totally ridiculous. And when they go to the state tourney they are always on the finals, that is how good they are. So if they are so good, try and get them to stay at home this year and we will keep ours gladly. :Clap:

:thatsfunn:thatsfunn:thatsfunn
Well if you guys sent your "best" to call the 12th region I wouldn't be bragging any! Those guys couldn't carry the 12th region's JV officials lunch! That was the worst I had ever seen. And I was talking to some of our officials during the Christmas tournaments and for some odd reason Dave Fraley is trying to get them back this year. HMMMMMM if the 12th region officials are so bad then why the heck would Dave Fraley want them back this year???

[Captain Backdoor]

Knowing the rules would help. At a game the other night, refs tried to give free throws on player control fouls - more than once. And let a girl with 5 fouls stay in the game for the first free throw.

What region were you in? If you were in the 13th I know exactly what you are talking about.

[ladycats23]

The 13th Region is Home of the worst oficials in the state. they will always cater to Clay county and Corbin Area Schools. Phantom fouls and no calls at the other end is a given going in!!

[UKisN1]

:thatsfunn:thatsfunn:thatsfunn
Well if you guys sent your "best" to call the 12th region I wouldn't be bragging any! Those guys couldn't carry the 12th region's JV officials lunch! That was the worst I had ever seen. And I was talking to some of our officials during the Christmas tournaments and for some odd reason Dave Fraley is trying to get them back this year. HMMMMMM if the 12th region officials are so bad then why the heck would Dave Fraley want them back this year???

Familiarity...style of calling...being able to push the right buttons....friends...a lot of reasons.

I always thought the 12th had good refs until the 14th region tourney last year. Everyone is entitled to have an off night.

[Captain Backdoor]

The 13th Region is Home of the worst officials in the state. they will always cater to Clay county and Corbin Area Schools. Phantom fouls and no calls at the other end is a given going in!!

:Thumbs::Thumbs::Thumbs:

I totally agree! I was at the Hoopin' it up holiday classic and I saw a 13th region team playing an out of region team and the officials were calling for the 13th region team. The refs wouldn't let the out of region coach even talk to his players without them going over and telling him to shut his mouth.

Familiarity...style of calling...being able to push the right buttons....friends...a lot of reasons.

I always thought the 12th had good refs until the 14th region tourney last year. Everyone is entitled to have an off night.

This is true everyone is entitled to have an off night. I will say that the 12th does have some not so good officials but all in all I think we have some of the best around. I know for sure that we have 2 officials that call on the collegiate level so that should say something for our officials.

["Heck" on hardwood]

I AM A REFEREE

Ok, obviously there are officials out there that need work. They won't get better without it, but will not be any better in the very short term. I'll concede that, and I could cite multiple examples.

I can not and will not get into the debate between the 12th and 14th region, I truly hope that there is a lot more tounge in cheek in that descussion than I read.

------------------------------------------

Most officials dedicate a significant amount of time to their trade. These are the guys that you see day in and day out working games. They are the guys you see at the gym on their off days and off seasons. They are the guys you see spending hundreds of dollars and taking weeks off work for summer camps. For the most part they are your communities' upstanding citizens.

One of the best officials I know, works HS, College and has been to the State Tourney 4+ times... Started because he saw his kids playing in a rec league and didn't like the officiating. He decided that he wanted to know the right way to do it.

My suggestion to all of you who've decided that simply complaining is the best way to go, is to follow his footsteps. Learn the game from the other side and then figure out if you still feel the same way.

------
As for the officials that do it just for the money, you'll have a lot of trouble making it on a HS officials salary. Most officials could go work a middle school triple header or a men's league and make more money in less time than a varsity game.

Please think about it.

[Captain Backdoor]

I AM A REFEREE

Ok, obviously there are officials out there that need work. They won't get better without it, but will not be any better in the very short term. I'll concede that, and I could cite multiple examples.

I can not and will not get into the debate between the 12th and 14th region, I truly hope that there is a lot more tounge in cheek in that descussion than I read.

------------------------------------------

Most officials dedicate a significant amount of time to their trade. These are the guys that you see day in and day out working games. They are the guys you see at the gym on their off days and off seasons. They are the guys you see spending hundreds of dollars and taking weeks off work for summer camps. For the most part they are your communities' upstanding citizens.

One of the best officials I know, works HS, College and has been to the State Tourney 4+ times... Started because he saw his kids playing in a rec league and didn't like the officiating. He decided that he wanted to know the right way to do it.

My suggestion to all of you who've decided that simply complaining is the best way to go, is to follow his footsteps. Learn the game from the other side and then figure out if you still feel the same way.

------
As for the officials that do it just for the money, you'll have a lot of trouble making it on a HS officials salary. Most officials could go work a middle school triple header or a men's league and make more money in less time than a varsity game.

Please think about it.

This is true with every Region from the 1st region to the 16th!

[mountain hoops guru]

Familiarity...style of calling...being able to push the right buttons....friends...a lot of reasons.

I always thought the 12th had good refs until the 14th region tourney last year. Everyone is entitled to have an off night.

Glad you explained why in the world he would want them back. I'm sure he knows everyone of them and pretty close to some of them too! They should not be alloowed to call just because of him and Hammonds from Letcher being close to some of those guys. But no one in the 14th wants anyone from the 13th they are the worst and no one wants the ones from the 15th they are the 2nd worst, I hope we change with the 16th this year, that would be a great change, they have some quality guys and ladies up that way.
:popcorn:

[Captain Backdoor]

Glad you explained why in the world he would want them back. I'm sure he knows everyone of them and pretty close to some of them too! They should not be alloowed to call just because of him and Hammonds from Letcher being close to some of those guys. But no one in the 14th wants anyone from the 13th they are the worst and no one wants the ones from the 15th they are the 2nd worst, I hope we change with the 16th this year, that would be a great change, they have some quality guys and ladies up that way.
:popcorn:

From what I can gather the officials from the 12th doesnt much care for Hammonds he was always whining and crying. But you don't have to worry about getting the 12th region guys because they are going to the 5th region.

[OrangenowBlue]

Seems like the people in Perry County always has a "special" relationship with the 16th region referees. I think we need to go farther away and bring in officials from regions a longer distance from the 14th region.

[UKisN1]

Most elect to stay in region because they believe they have the best. The ones that go out do not believe in that principle. Yea, why have your region dictated by an outside guy/gal that feels jilted because he was rated 3rd or 4th in his region. Whereas, at least you know the style of your refs,whether bad or good you have some clue.

Yes, it would be somewhat unfair for KCC or LCC to have 12th region refs, but trace history of regional finals and check the conflict of interest that arise. College roommates, calls to assigning secretaries on the day of the finals, etc.

Stay in region is my vote. I have been throughout the state of Kentucky playing, coaching, and refereeing and all regions have good refs, but all also have political bums who don't belong calling games. It is up to the assigning secretaries to do something about it, but as most know that is how they got their job.

[PanthrFan]

Most refs do or try to do a good job....In the 15 th there are a lot of problems and retraining needed.

[Basketball Wizzard]

Like I said earlier in a post......It's the corruption of society at every level....I just watched 2 more very poorly officiated games in the 13th region tonight. One caused the best team to lose....never got a single call the whole second half.....Just a bunch of "good ol'boys" taking care of their friends at the players expense!!!

[Captain Backdoor]

Like I said earlier in a post......It's the corruption of society at every level....I just watched 2 more very poorly officiated games in the 13th region tonight. One caused the best team to lose....never got a single call the whole second half.....Just a bunch of "good ol'boys" taking care of their friends at the players expense!!!

Key words here my pal!!!

["Heck" on hardwood]

Like I said earlier in a post......It's the corruption of society at every level....I just watched 2 more very poorly officiated games in the 13th region tonight. One caused the best team to lose....never got a single call the whole second half.....Just a bunch of "good ol'boys" taking care of their friends at the players expense!!!

Most elect to stay in region because they believe they have the best. The ones that go out do not believe in that principle. Yea, why have your region dictated by an outside guy/gal that feels jilted because he was rated 3rd or 4th in his region. Whereas, at least you know the style of your refs,whether bad or good you have some clue.

Yes, it would be somewhat unfair for KCC or LCC to have 12th region refs, but trace history of regional finals and check the conflict of interest that arise. College roommates, calls to assigning secretaries on the day of the finals, etc.

Stay in region is my vote. I have been throughout the state of Kentucky playing, coaching, and refereeing and all regions have good refs, but all also have political bums who don't belong calling games. It is up to the assigning secretaries to do something about it, but as most know that is how they got their job.

:Thumbs::Thumbs::Thumbs:

I totally agree! I was at the Hoopin' it up holiday classic and I saw a 13th region team playing an out of region team and the officials were calling for the 13th region team. The refs wouldn't let the out of region coach even talk to his players without them going over and telling him to shut his mouth.




This is true everyone is entitled to have an off night. I will say that the 12th does have some not so good officials but all in all I think we have some of the best around. I know for sure that we have 2 officials that call on the collegiate level so that should say something for our officials.

I'll tell you what, if you have hard evidence or fraud please call the KHSAA (number found at khsaa dot org) and talk to Asst Commisioner Tackett. Here, I'll address it this way:

1) Going out of region for the tournament is the best situation for officials and teams. It is done in almost every sport, with good cause. It has nothing to do with who thinks they have the best officials and is not decided by the officials. It is decided at the Regions' AD meeting (each region elects and send an AD, Holmes' Mr Madrick in the 9th). They also decide which region to switch with.

2) Short any proven fraud, officials may decide one or two games a year. Don't be mislead to think that one call changed the outcome of a game that saw 10 missed free throws and 4 missed lay ups.

3) Please read the KHSAA Officials' Guidebook, p6 for what constitutes conflict of interest. Many officials seem to know a lot of coaches. But don't be deceived, most officials don't know that coach at all once they get outside the lines of the court. :ChairHit::HitWall:

[mountain hoops guru]

Like I said earlier in a post......It's the corruption of society at every level....I just watched 2 more very poorly officiated games in the 13th region tonight. One caused the best team to lose....never got a single call the whole second half.....Just a bunch of "good ol'boys" taking care of their friends at the players expense!!!

One of the reasons, the 13th regions best were calling the Shelby Valley/Buckhorn game at the Wymt game. And they made their mistakes as well. :ChairHit:

[Creeker]

It's funny to see how 2 different fans from opposing teams see the officiating of a game so drastically different. Watched a girls game a while back and I was for the opposing team and had a friend for the other team. IMO, the officials completely changed the entire game in the 3rd quarter in favor of the home team. Call after call that was horrible to say the least. The fan for the home team didn't see a thing wrong and actually said they felt they were calling bad for the home team. :biggrin:

[BigChew]

I think I know the game you are referring to Creeker. The team you were rooting for had a girl dribble to the corner, pick up the ball and when she couldn't find anyone to pass it to, started dribbling again with no call! The refs that night were just bad in general I thought. Maybe your friend will come around to your way of thinking! haha :rockon:

[Creeker]

I think I know the game you are referring to Creeker. The team you were rooting for had a girl dribble to the corner, pick up the ball and when she couldn't find anyone to pass it to, started dribbling again with no call! The refs that night were just bad in general I thought. Maybe your friend will come around to your way of thinking! haha :rockon:

:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao: You "might" be correct... then again, you might not. :biggrin:

[Creeker]

I think I know the game you are referring to Creeker. The team you were rooting for had a girl dribble to the corner, pick up the ball and when she couldn't find anyone to pass it to, started dribbling again with no call! The refs that night were just bad in general I thought. Maybe your friend will come around to your way of thinking! haha :rockon:

I'll give you that one... but that's it... :biggrin: