[BellCoBobcats09]

Like my way or not, it doesnt matter to me. Then tell why why PRIVATE schools get away with alot more than PUBLIC schools?

[BellCoBobcats09]

To further this...

BellCoBobcats09.

I will give you three scenario's...you tell me what you would do.

Scenario 1:
You are a single parent and your son is in 10th Grade. You accept a job in Middlesboro, which as part of your employment package, provides free rent at an apartment unit directly within the Middlesboro city limits. Your son is a very talented athlete who has played RB all his life, and it is clear that he has the talent to play at the next level and earn a scholarship with the right head coach. Do you send him to Middlesboro or Bell County?

Scenario 2:
You are an 8th Grade Student living in Harrogate, TN. Your 4 closest friends who you have grown up playing sports with all have parents who accepted a job at a new factory built off US119 in Bell County near the Bell/Knox County lines. Their parents have all moved within a mile of the factory and will be attending Bell County. Your parents tell you that they will gladly drive you to Bell every morning to attend school and pick you up if you want. Do you stay in Harrogate or attend Bell?

Scenario 3:
Your middle school coach is close personal friend of the family in Barbourville. You have played for him for three years and was his star QB. Recently, he got his teahcing certificate and was hired at Bell County to teach Math and take on a role as an assistant coach and possibly Dudley Hilton's replacement in a couple years (hypothetical). Meanwhile, Knox Central has just hired a brand new head coach who is going to run a completely different offense that is 100% run oriented where all the QB does is hand the ball off. Do you follow your coach or stay in the district you were assigned to?

My kid will live in Middlesboro and WILL PLAY for the better team in the county which is Bell Co. If you live out of state in Tennessee you have to pay a out of state fee to send your kids to Kentucky. Probably half of Bell Co's roster is from Middlesboro.

[French For President]

To further this...

BellCoBobcats09.

I will give you three scenario's...you tell me what you would do.

Scenario 1:
You are a single parent and your son is in 10th Grade. You accept a job in Middlesboro, which as part of your employment package, provides free rent at an apartment unit directly within the Middlesboro city limits. Your son is a very talented athlete who has played RB all his life, and it is clear that he has the talent to play at the next level and earn a scholarship with the right head coach. Do you send him to Middlesboro or Bell County?

Scenario 2:
You are an 8th Grade Student living in Harrogate, TN. Your 4 closest friends who you have grown up playing sports with all have parents who accepted a job at a new factory built off US119 in Bell County near the Bell/Knox County lines. Their parents have all moved within a mile of the factory and will be attending Bell County. Your parents tell you that they will gladly drive you to Bell every morning to attend school and pick you up if you want. Do you stay in Harrogate or attend Bell?

Scenario 3:
Your middle school coach is close personal friend of the family in Barbourville. You have played for him for three years and was his star QB. Recently, he got his teahcing certificate and was hired at Bell County to teach Math and take on a role as an assistant coach and possibly Dudley Hilton's replacement in a couple years (hypothetical). Meanwhile, Knox Central has just hired a brand new head coach who is going to run a completely different offense that is 100% run oriented where all the QB does is hand the ball off. Do you follow your coach or stay in the district you were assigned to?

Would it be possible to move completely out of Eastern Ky.

[EKUAlum05]

My kid will live in Middlesboro and WILL PLAY for the better team in the county which is Bell Co. If you live out of state in Tennessee you have to pay a out of state fee to send your kids to Kentucky. Probably half of Bell Co's roster is from Middlesboro.

That's all that needs to be said on the recruiting issue. Bell doesn't recruit..they don't need to. But, you just proved that the grey area for Bell County is quite similar to that of several programs who hear the unfounded recruiting accusations as well.

[EKUAlum05]

Like my way or not, it doesnt matter to me. Then tell why why PRIVATE schools get away with alot more than PUBLIC schools?

What in particular do they get away with?

Being able to take kids in from other school districts? Being able to take in kids from across state lines? Having the loophole that kids do not have to have a "bonafide change of address" in order to transfer?

[BellCoBobcats09]

That's all that needs to be said on the recruiting issue. Bell doesn't recruit..they don't need to. But, you just proved that the grey area for Bell County is quite similar to that of several programs who hear the unfounded recruiting accusations as well.

I would love to see a few great players from Middlesboro and a few from Pineville and put them together with the Bell Co team now. That would be 1 dangerous team. Will never happen but would be awesome.

[EKUAlum05]

I would love to see a few great players from Middlesboro and a few from Pineville and put them together with the Bell Co team now. That would be 1 dangerous team. Will never happen but would be awesome.

From the sounds of it, if half the roster already lives in Middlesboro like you stated, it has already happened hh:

[cougarpride08]

1. Having a system in place from top to bottom- The best of the best usually have a strong feeder system with knowledgable and enthusiastic coaches, they usually have a JV program, and they usually have a coaching staff who has implemented their beliefs and input into all levels.

2. Administrative Support- Never underestimate the value of having the school administration system support the program. All it takes is one administrator to undermine the entire direction of a program, conversely when the entire administration is behind you see very special things happen.

3. Community Support/Boosters- When the community supports a team the sense of pride kids develop instantly make them better in tough games, and more resilient after a tough loss. Additionally, when a coach doesn't have to worry about funding for his team it exponentially relieves pressure off his shoulders.

4. Strength and Conditioning- The best programs not only have a well defined strength and conditioning program, they typically have trained staff members to implement this program.It's amazing the difference between a team that is one step faster, 10 pounds stronger across the board, and half a step quicker.

5. Confidence and Experience- Your best teams are typically teams who win the close games and win the big games. They have a workman's attitude, they play within themselves, and even when they are trailing and things are not going their way, they still ahve confidence in their coaches and their teammates.

:rockon::worthy::Thumbs:

Im not picking on Belfry but they get kids that could go to Pike Central and a lot of kids out of WV. Their coach is a man of good character and I dont think he is out recruiting. But these kids know they can go to Belfry and compete for state championships. Cant blame em.

I agree with this statement!

It's a two way street though. Pike Central has most definitely benefitted from kids who lived in Belfry's school district who chose to attend PC to get immediate playing time as well including two of the school's top rushers.

This next statement is not directed at 5timechamp. I feel alot of people throw the "R-word" around too loosely and confuse parents choosing to give their kids the best opportunity to excel. Recruiting is when a coach or someone directly associated with a school's athletic program directly interacts with a player with the sole purpose of them attending their school. I don't know whether it stems from jealousy or ignorance in most cases, but typically when that person is asked to name names that is whenissues arise.

I used to be naive about the topic myself, until a few very educated and well spoken Highlands fans set me straight some year's back. RECRUITING happens nowhere near as often as some fans would like to think. What does occur very often though is parent's taking advantage of the system on a completely independent decision.

I would go so far to say that at some point nearly every prominant program in this state has either had one or more of these:
1) A player attend a high school despite living in another district within the same county.
2) A player zoned for a county school attend an indepent school district or vice versa
3) A school near a state line have a player from another state choose to attend that school
4) A student's parent legitimately move them from a different county or state prior to their Freshman season
5) An athlete choose to transfer schools to play alongside friends they had made in some type of All-Star, AAU, or Youth league
6) A player choose to transfer schools because of a girlfriend :biggrin:
7) A player's parents choose to send their kid to an adjacent school so they can play immediately
8) A player's parents choose to send their child to play for a coach that they once played for themselves
9) A player's parents choose to send their child to a school district with a better academic record and/or better facilities.
10)A player may actually be in a different county, but the closest school is in another county or state.

I think in time parents makes the right decision for there children.

To further this...

BellCoBobcats09.

I will give you three scenario's...you tell me what you would do.

Scenario 1:
You are a single parent and your son is in 10th Grade. You accept a job in Middlesboro, which as part of your employment package, provides free rent at an apartment unit directly within the Middlesboro city limits. Your son is a very talented athlete who has played RB all his life, and it is clear that he has the talent to play at the next level and earn a scholarship with the right head coach. Do you send him to Middlesboro or Bell County?

Scenario 2:
You are an 8th Grade Student living in Harrogate, TN. Your 4 closest friends who you have grown up playing sports with all have parents who accepted a job at a new factory built off US119 in Bell County near the Bell/Knox County lines. Their parents have all moved within a mile of the factory and will be attending Bell County. Your parents tell you that they will gladly drive you to Bell every morning to attend school and pick you up if you want. Do you stay in Harrogate or attend Bell?

Scenario 3:
Your middle school coach is close personal friend of the family in Barbourville. You have played for him for three years and was his star QB. Recently, he got his teahcing certificate and was hired at Bell County to teach Math and take on a role as an assistant coach and possibly Dudley Hilton's replacement in a couple years (hypothetical). Meanwhile, Knox Central has just hired a brand new head coach who is going to run a completely different offense that is 100% run oriented where all the QB does is hand the ball off. Do you follow your coach or stay in the district you were assigned to?

Well said! And a very good point.

I think some of you are too bent on recruiting at the high school level.

More often than not, it's the parents recruiting the schools and not vice versa. Kids want to play at winning programs that give them exposure and a chance to excel at the next level.

If you look at some of the top programs around the state, not only are they very good in athletics, but they're also some of the top academic schools as well.

I'm not saying recruiting doesn't go on cause it most certainly does in some cases (see J'town with Aaron Cosby in basketball), but unless you have proof, you shouldn't be accusing a school of doing it. It's very demeaning to the coaches and kids who put in work 50 weeks of the year.

As far as the private schools go, if you're going to accuse them of recruiting, then you need to say something about the elementray private schools as well, considering a lot of the same kids attend the private high school too. I think some of you are just a little jealous of the success so the only thing you can come up with is that they recruit.

As far as the topic of this thread, one of the biggest reasons s school like Highlands is successful every year is their system. They have, IMO, the best youth legue program in the state.

Their kids only play against each other in the Ft. Thomas Jr. Football League, so by the time these kids are at the freshman level, they've been running the varsity offensive scheme for years and been playing with one another for years as well.

If you look at Highlands current roster, there are only two kids who didn't participate in the FTYFL. Also, their off season program is one of the best in the state as well. They have very few multi sport athletes, which allows everyone to focus on football year round.

It also helps that they have one of the best head coaches in the state in Dale Mueller and he has assembled an outstanding assistant coaching staff.

There are many things that go in to a successful football program, but the keys IMO are the following:

1. Great coaching
2. Off season work out/conditioning
3. Talent
4. Development of young players/Youth league
5. Community support

YOUTH PROGRAMS
IMO these kids play together for 3 or 4 years before they even have to step on a high school field together. Most programs also institute the basics of the schools style of play into the youth. It can only get better from there.

That is why Highlands is Highlands. Football season is never over there is it?

[BaseballIsLife]

Its because most of these schools have great feeder systems that just keep producing talent year after year after year.

For Highlands, they have a Ft. Thomas football league within the city and kids at a very young age play in it. They generally have at least 4 teams, if not more. Each team runs the same offense and defensive schemes that the Highlands runs in its program. So thus each and every player plays in the same system for YEARS before even stepping foot in the high school. And when they finally do step in there, they know the complete system (its advantages, flaws, etc etc) and thus are able to execute it to the best of their ability with this knowledge.

Its no small wonder why they continue to produce the teams they do with a system like this one that they have in place for their youngsters. And keep in mind that a good portion of the kids in the Ft. Thomas football league often opt to play for NCC when it comes down to picking a High School to play at so actually Highlands loses a little bit of what it should have if they are able to keep all the players in the city.

[BaseballIsLife]

Like my way or not, it doesnt matter to me. Then tell why why PRIVATE schools get away with alot more than PUBLIC schools?

Thats an age-old debacle that will probably never yield a good answer...

It seems that most of your thoughts are being directed to NKY schools. I'd just like to clarify that when you are talking about private schools you should direct your claims toward Covington Catholic, Newport Central Catholic, Covington Holy Cross, etc. and NOT Beechwood or Highlands.

Both Beechwood and Highlands are considered to be independent schools and are considered to be public.

[bucslover68]

Im not picking on Belfry but they get kids that could go to Pike Central and a lot of kids out of WV. Their coach is a man of good character and I dont think he is out recruiting. But these kids know they can go to Belfry and compete for state championships. Cant blame em.

I am not firing back at you 5timechamp because you are not really downing Belfry. However, if people really knew how few kids are on the high school team and middle school teams from West Virginia, then they would quit beating the dead horse. The great majority of these kids begin classes in Pike County grade schools and stay there throughout their careers. No one ever addresses the fact that Belfry has lost several good players over the last few years to West Virginia schools for different reasons. One of the reasons being a lack of playing time at Belfry. Some girls leave Belfry and go to Pikeville to cheer. When you look at the area in Mingo County and try to find a good football school, there isn't one now. Matewan used to be decent and Gilbert has been OK, but you could not field an all-star team in Mingo County and beat any decent eastern Kentucky team. If I had kids living in Williamson, I would pay or drive or whatever I had to do to send them to Belfry. A lot of kids come to Belfry just to go to school. Belfry may not be the Harvard of Pike County, but they normally are pretty solid academically. Belfry just reloads every year and they continue to do so through their middle school.

[neerfan]

What in particular do they get away with?

Being able to take kids in from other school districts? Being able to take in kids from across state lines? Having the loophole that kids do not have to have a "bonafide change of address" in order to transfer?

ALL THE ABOVE. That is an unfair advantage they have. Play by the same rules or play in aleague of their own. Very simple.

[tradition]

It is laughable that this thread turned into a public vs. private debate considering 4 of the 6 schools mentioned are public.

[nky]

It is laughable that this thread turned into a public vs. private debate considering 4 of the 6 schools mentioned are public.

Plus everyone plays by the same rules. If border counties think that kids come from other states to play for some teams Could they not play for your team?Make your team attractive to parents and students to Draw them in. Stop down grading others because they follow the rules.

[nky]

It is laughable that this thread turned into a public vs. private debate considering 4 of the 6 schools mentioned are public.

And of the private schools how many will win a ring? one?

[EKUAlum05]

ALL THE ABOVE. That is an unfair advantage they have. Play by the same rules or play in aleague of their own. Very simple.

I hate to tell you but Simon Kenton has probably had many of the same scenarios I outlined in previous posts play out as well. I am sure at no point in SK's existence that a family who lived in Walton-Verona , Pendleton County, or southern Boone County has NEVER chose to send their kids to SK have they?:eyeroll:

[EKUAlum05]

I have found over the years that the more you win...the more people believe you recruit. Additionally, the double standard which exists is laughable at best. If your school has won a State Title in the past five years, at some point you have heard your program being accused of recruiting.

As an example, tell me these don't sound familiar:
1ABeechwood- "They recruit from Ohio"
1A/2A Newport Central Catholic- "They are a private and can get by recruiting"
2A Ft. Campbell- "They have an unfair advantage because they are a millitary school and get all these transfers"
2A Mercer County- "They were 5A playing in 2A and took all of Harrodsburg best players just to win a Title"
2A Russell- "They get players from ohio, WV, and Greenup County"
2A/ Belfry- "They recruit from over in WV"
3A/5A Highlands- "They get all the good players from Cincinnatti"
3A Lou. Central - "They are a magnet school and get all the athletes in Louisville"
3A Covington Catholic- See NewCath description above
3A/4A Lexington Catholic- "They are a private school and recruit Lexington"
4A Bell County- "They get boys out of Tennessee and kids from Middlesboro"
4A/6A Trinity and St. X - Don't need an explanation, the cradle of "evil" in KY.


I can go down the list of state runner ups as well if you want... the point being is when teams get tired of losing they make excuses and throwing around "recruiting" is the easiest one.

[Hatz]

And of the private schools how many will win a ring? one?

Depends. Strong possibilities would be:

6A: St. X or Trinity
4A: Lex Catholic
2A: NCC
1A: LCA

That said, I think the banter vs. them all is jealousy and the ability to develop a program that consistently contends and wins vs. the private schools.

[tradition]

Depends. Strong possibilities would be:

6A: St. X or Trinity
4A: Lex Catholic
2A: NCC
1A: LCA

That said, I think the banter vs. them all is jealousy and the ability to develop a program that consistently contends and wins vs. the private schools.

Understand what you are saying but I believe nky was talking about the schools listed only at the beginning of the thread. Powerhouse teams.

[BluegrassBuckeye]

If it's common knowledge then report it to the state. Prove your case with evidence. If not don't make allegations because they're probably false

Read my original post, Intelligent One.

[charlie22]

That's like asking someone to give names of people who cheat on their taxes. It's common knowledge that they do it but it's hard to prove without an audit. Same with private schools and recruiting. Anyone who thinks that the top ones don't do it are kidding themselves. :Thumbs:

Do you cheat on your taxes? I assume the answer is no. And you'd probably think that if I publicly stated that you cheat on your taxes, without me having any proof of you doing so, it would be extremely unfair to you and perhaps legally actionable by you. Yet you have no problem claiming that some schools recruit without any proof. You may think the top schools cheat, but you have zero proof of it, yet still make the allegation. See the double standard?

And as a former Buckeye, I'd assume you laugh along with me every time you read about Highlands, Beechwood or some other N. Ky school getting these great football players from Cincinnati. Just what really good football player from Ohio is going to voluntarily choose to play football in Ky when they could, if they were so good, play football at Elder, Moeller, St. X, Colerain, Anderson, etc., etc.? That allegation is so illogical, it's flat out funny.

[nky]

And as a former Buckeye, I'd assume you laugh along with me every time you read about Highlands, Beechwood or some other N. Ky school getting these great football players from Cincinnati. Just what really good football player from Ohio is going to voluntarily choose to play football in Ky when they could, if they were so good, play football at Elder, Moeller, St. X, Colerain, Anderson, etc., etc.? That allegation is so illogical, it's flat out funny.

True. If there is such a big problem do what other states have done and pass a KHSAA bylaw not permitting out of state players. If you want you're program to be a powerhouse. Follow the list that some have posted . It's not a private vs. Public since some of the big powerhouses are public schools.

[rebel 4 life]

listin arugeing about is not going to change noting st x and t are very good school and if they recuit and you beat them that even more bragging rights just look at highlands THEY ARE THE BEST IN KY and they dont recuit they have a great system

[attacktheV]

Middlesboro and Pineville are cities in Bell County. So actually Middlesboro and Pineville consist of all Bell County Kids. Which one pulls the most from each?


Just trying to give Bell 09 a ladder to climb out of his hole he has dug.

[kywldcat01]

Imo, a lot of those accusing these schools of recruiting are simply jealous of the success they have had.

Like I said before...look at the top athletic schools in the state in football, and you'll also notice that they're some of the best academic schools in the state as well.

Accuse these schools of this or that all you want, but unless you have proof, you're simply making yourself look very uninformed and uneducated on the matter.

[kywldcat01]

ALL THE ABOVE. That is an unfair advantage they have. Play by the same rules or play in aleague of their own. Very simple.

Like my way or not, it doesnt matter to me. Then tell why why PRIVATE schools get away with alot more than PUBLIC schools?

Kids PAY to go to these private schools...how are they recruited to go there? If anything, they're recruited there because of the education provided to the young men. I can guarantee you 95% of the kids who attend private high schools also attended a feeder private elementary and middle school as well.

Jealousy is going to get you no where. These kids work just as hard as those in public schools and also have to meet the same academic requirements (in some cases, higher requirements) so how are they not playing by the rules?

If a parent chooses to pay their kids education, that's up to them. Don't degrade them and say the only reason they're attending a school is because they were recruited. All that is, is an excuse for why your team lost to them or doesn't have the same success.

Look at the basketball state champions this decade. You'll be surprised to find out that the majority of the schools who won it were public. I guess those public schools recruited though...right? :zzz::eyeroll:

[Cellking]

1. consistent coaching, not just the head man but great assistants as well

2. Hard work all year. Sure most teams work hard July-Nov. But the great teams go 50 weeks out of the year. (2 off for dead period)

3. They do the little things well, tackle, turnover ratio, special teams and etc.

4. They all have very coach able kids. How many superstars come from these schools? It is more team. Sure they have some talented players but they rarely break individual records. It is about the team.

Just my .02 worth. From watching the teams from Corbin back in the 70's and 80's. Bell in the 90's and today very closely.

I agree all these things are important. Also add Support from the Administration and Fans. MONEY! plays a huge part. Lots of teams opperate on a shoe string budget while the Successful ones have unlimited resources.

[CoachM]

I am a parent, I have three sons and I promise that as a parent, I will put them in the best possible situation for them to succeed. If that is considered recruiting then I apologize.

[Sheriik]

I am a parent, I have three sons and I promise that as a parent, I will put them in the best possible situation for them to succeed. If that is considered recruiting then I apologize.

good awnser!

[Stardust]

Committment!

It has to be a committment from the the coaching staff, administration, players and parents. There is no successful program that I know of that focuses just on the Varsity program. The focus must be on developing a program that reaches the youth level. Getting that buy in to a single program and a commitment by all to stick to it.